Why will students go to some D grade college in Netherlands or Sweden when they can opt for UCL(at Nalsar) , Georgetown(at NLS) or Harvard (at NLU-D) by their own hardwork from universities that matter. Stop misleading people. If I was in Nujs , I would never have opted for those B tier exchange programmes.

Literally no one cares about your age at a law firm. And 25 year old AOs are not that uncommon. Even I have seen even multiple people after a foreign llm (there is one from UC Berkley) joining tier-1 around the age of 26. It will only matter if the person taking a drop should make this an issue (when I don't know why he/she should). Make your performance count and yes dropping beyond 2-3 years will be a folly. All the best!

india's best competition lawyer was with Ashurst, the whole Touchstone guys have trained at Freshfields, Hogan Lovells etc, some trilegal guys were with SJ Berwin. what is the deal here? what do they teach you at these firms? anyone who has experienced the training imparted, please explain sir/ma'am.

even though these firms are coming to India in the next 5-10 years, i still think a TC is worth it cos of what these firms invest in your development. correct me if i am wrong

At present, the history syllabus relies heavily on Bipan Chandra's book, which looks at the traditional Congress narrative of Nehru and Gandhi + literature on Ambedkar. The syllabus neglects Netaji, Patel and Savarkar.

Also, FYI some context on Savarkar:

https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1663581555204435969?cxt=HHwWgsDRzYinnZYuAAAA

Let's look at the law here. Section 125A of Representation of People’s Act:

“[125A. Penalty for filing false affidavit, etc.—A candidate who himself or through his proposer, with intent to be elected in an Election ,—...

(iii) conceals any information, in his nomination paper...or in his affidavit ...shall...be punishable with imprisonment for a term which may extend to six months, or with fine, or with both.].”

The key question here is the meaning of the word "conceals". One side will allege knowing concealment and the other will say it was an innocent mistake.

Connect with your team and make it a point to crack jokes and bond with them. Praise your seniors, and also, be sharp, show that you are research intensive and be seen as hard working. While learning certain things take time (drafting of SPA's and the like), you must show that you are diligent and hard working.

Moderator: Why marked trollish? Look at the meaning of prom in the dictionary. Anything criticising gen Z is trollish for you!

prom

noun [ C ]

a formalpartyheld for olderstudents at the end of the schoolyear, at which there is dancing:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prom

I am going to graduate next year and have interest to work in justice delivery system. So, i choose to join judicial service but got confused that which one would be better PCS (J) or JAG. I request LI users to provide detailed comparison between them so that it can help to decide.

If a cringe influencer and ▮▮▮ like this girl can afford a 190-crore bungalow in her 20s, what's the point in working hard, cracking CLAT and slaving away in a law firm for so much less? Isn't it better to work as a dumb influencer?

https://www.news18.com/movies/urvashi-rautela-moves-into-very-fancy-bungalow-next-to-yash-chopras-house-and-its-worth-rs-190-cr-7970713.html

No, definitely not on an equal footing with tier-1 NLU grads. And that's because getting into SLS is simply not as hard as getting a high rank in CLAT/AILET. Majority of people at SLS don't really crack even tier-2 NLUs with atleast 3-digit CLAT ranks. It's not a bad law school considering the pathetic state of higher education in India, and legal education in particular. But overall, the learning atmosphere, opportunities, competition, academic rigour, graduate outcomes and most importantly, personal growth, will be much better at a top 5-6 NLU. Out of a batch of 300+ at SLS, some kids will be driven and successful, but you can't extrapolate that to say that people from SLS are as good as tier-1 NLU grads.

Yr forget about primiary users first request kian to bring few changes here. Like quick publication of comments, edit & delete own comments, mandatory unique username, differentiate b/w replies & comments & let users to decide what comment should be trollish/contested etc.

Most need update is "quick publication of comments", the time taking by moderator is more frustrating than awaiting for replies from firms.

@Kian bhai/yrr/sir/ma'am plz consider and update LI.

I have witnessed pre-mid-post era of njpc. The credit for upgrading district judiciary goes only to the Hon'ble SC because it is who bring back & maintained the standard of district judiciary otherwise govt. will not even spend Rs. 1 for judiciary & HC was not taking any interest don't know why.

𝐒𝐜𝐞𝐧𝐚𝐫𝐢𝐨𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐨 𝐅𝐍𝐉𝐏𝐂 -

1. In many states like Bihar, UP, MP, etc the salary of District Judge was equal to District Magistrates with less or nearly equal perks & alliwances. Many places DMs were given newly built bungalows with all amenities whereas DJs were still using old british era made accommodations with less facilities. Other judges accommodations was like Dharamshala's. Even at many places special electricity facilities (means 24×7 hr electricity) were not extended to any Judges (include DJs) but was available to top district executives.

2. In majority of states the order of prefernce of DJs was after DMs & no value of CJMs. Also I saw on multiple occasions that DMs & ADMs used to address DJs by their name rather than sir /mam & had no fear of court rather judges used to fear.

3. Except DJs no practical SOPs was for other like some judges who don't have their own four wheelers use to visit court by walking, Rickshaw, shared Autos/taxis, bicycles (yes it's true), bike etc. The profession was like that even the peons didn't give much attentions to their respective judges.

Most of the time I used to think that why no young ones join judiciary like other pcs or upsc & every time I came across with uncle ji like faces & rarely 2-3 females (yet more than HJS grade of that time). Later I got to know that none join as an aspirants but unwillingness due to financial pressure. Also exams was not tougher that time & recuritment through source was also common in remote states. Whoever clear other pcs or upsc they immediately join there w/o giving a thought.

𝐁𝐔𝐓 𝐁𝐔𝐓 all scenario started changing after 1NJPC, in which major two ruling was -

1. Removing 3yr practice criteria.

2. Upgrading district judicial officers ranking at par with IAS grades & removed comparison with other State services.

& The effect was getting seen from 2004, when the induction of young & personality minds taking momentum + adoption of new judicial rankings by states & centre shows the rise of new district judiciary.

𝐅𝐄𝐖 𝐄𝐅𝐅𝐄𝐂𝐓𝐒 :-

1. Uniform pay, perks, ranks made across India like All India Service. Also order of preference now at par with counterparts IAS at any functions.

2. Sir / Ma'am terminology adopted to address any judicial officers even of same ranking or junior.

3. Judicial officers started recognizing & valuing their designations & service. Also started carrying fearless attitude. They learned from IAS /IPS grades that how to keep maintain their standards & everything even at low emoluments. Also the societies & other important wings started treating judicial officers like how IAS / IPS fellows gets.

4. The craziness for this job touching sky. Now on large scale the female community opting judiciary as dream career rather than other job. Example - among my connections, one left RBI Grade B (was female) & 3 another left T1 law firm for PCS (J) while one of my colleagues brother did his master from QMU London through scholarship and later join judiciary. From various sources learned that top NLU grades are opting PCS (J) over other on large scale.

5. New deputation posts & scope created same like IAS / IPS grades at centre and states. Like ADJs & DJs nomore compared with DMs scale and getting recognition at par with Joint Secretary - Secretary to Govt. of India & getting union posting.

6. Facilities, perks & lifestyle are highly improved. Recently I got the chance to visit one serving IAS officer's residence (not DM or Commissioner) in MP it was totally in poor states but when I visited judicial colony in same district the first impression of colony was enough to explain the standard of quarters. I was totally surprised that how much judiciary upgrade itself.

There are many more effects to write but I think its enough as 2NJPC already out & implemented (except allowances). Also the Apex Court in same case strictly directed now to use "𝐃𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐭 𝐉𝐮𝐝𝐢𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐫𝐲" in place of "𝐒𝐮𝐛𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐉𝐮𝐝𝐢𝐜𝐢𝐚𝐫𝐲" will add more glorification.

If compare b/w pre-njpc era Vs. post-njpc era in one sentence -

"𝐍𝐎𝐖 𝐈𝐓𝐒 𝐁𝐄𝐂𝐎𝐌𝐄 𝐃𝐑𝐄𝐀𝐌 𝐉𝐎𝐁 𝐋𝐈𝐊𝐄 𝐈𝐀𝐒"

Hope the respective High Courts too focus like this on district judiciary.

there was post where one user had posted a link about uk unis which place most students in magic circle firms, unfortunately I cannot recollect the thread, however, amongst the top unis there was Durham and Bristol, so if you get into one of them go. Sussex and Aberdeen are not well known for recrtuiment also Aberdeen teaches Scots law, Manchester has a problem with grade inflation.

BTW you can do double law, you can do LLB from the UK and then go to US and do JD. If you want to settle in Canada, uni of Leciester seems to have a programme which teaches a joint curriculum, if you do the LLB from Leciester then do LLM from Canada then you just need to do one part of Canadian bar exam. But again do your homework well about job prospects.

NUALS would probably be Brighton, considering NUALS has placed most 90% of the students sitting for placements from the 2023 Batch, with offers from Trilegal, JSA, Khaitan, S&A in firms and ICICI, Vedanta, EY, TLGS and so on in In-house roles. This is considering that there is zero help from the administration of the University. It's a win.

FYI the moderator censored my mention of this news item:

https://www.barandbench.com/news/enforcement-directorate-raids-office-of-mamata-banerjees-lawyer-advocate-sanjay-basu

Yes. Each NLU has a secret society of people who are conservative but pretend to be woke to better fit in with the herd. This society is called the Clown Society. It is an innocent sounding name but hides two dark references: the clown emoji used by the right to mock woke arguments and the villain the Joker (because members of the society idolise him and are prepared to use violence like him). You will recognise members of Clown Societies by a clown emoji tattoo on their right ankle, next to the bone.

Clown Societies are open only to boys, but conservative NLU girls have their own societies called Harley Societies. It is a reference to Harley Davidson bikes (which the right-wing loves) and to Harley Quinn, the Joker's girlfriend. You will recognise members of Harley Societies by a Harley Davidson tattoo on their lower hip.

Jesus Christ, not this again! Read the below ▮▮▮, please:

- Any UK university will give you an education better than any college in India. By education I mean not just classroom teaching but also library infrastructure, research guidance, cultural activities, sports, the diversity of the crowd and general life experience. Studying in the UK will also expose you you to a more egalitarian society compared to India. That is what a proper education covers.

- UK law firms are not hung up on dick-measuring contests and rankings. They don't give an F about rankings like in India. They broadly prefer any of the universities in the Russell Group. Over 80% of hires in top firms are from Russel Group universities. The last available data shows the top 10 as Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, Nottingham, Bristol, Manchester, King's, Warwick and UCL/Leeds (joint 10th). Note that LSE didn't feature in the top 10. Also, 20% hires were from non-Russell group universities, such as Sussex, UEA, UWE and Northumbria.

https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities

- If you want to do an MBA in the US, enrol for an easy course in India and for your GMAT prep. A 5 year law course distracts from GMAT prep.

However, since you're someone hung up on tiers, rankings etc, I suggest you get into NALSAR and spend 5 years trolling all the law schools (except NLSIU and NLUD) on how you are ranked higher than them in NIRF. ▮▮▮

The Jindal rich brat culture is irking you? Buddy, the children of some of the country's richest and most powerful people study there, from powerful ministers to CEOs of the biggest companies to judges to police officers. Same applies to Ashoka. Don't you want to be friends with them? The may be nepo kids, but they have done many favours for their friends, ranging from arranging internships at Big 7 firm to free VIP tickets at IPL matches. When you start working, they can do much bigger favours for you. And your life is set if you can actually date and marry a rich nepo girl. It's happened many times before. Totally desi ▮▮▮ at Jindal have married girls who are literally royalty.

Still wanna go to MNLU?

I don't know about you, but for me - it's all about how you want to perceive the world.

If you feel like you are peacocking yourself to the world and that drives you nuts - nothing wrong in that. It's just that having that sort of a lens will come with its associated consequences, for which you should be prepared.

If you think you are not going to like those consequences, then well start changing your lens to the one that is expected to give you the consequences you prefer.

If you want to succeed in the law firm world, you need to look sharp. I heard this quote somewhere much later that courtroom lawyers wear white shirts and white bands and all because if they can't keep their own clothes in order, how can they expect to keep the client's stuff in order?

While as a lawyer-philosopher, you may be above the material demands of the world, your clients are not so and they will judge you from their perspective. Your clients out in the world are persistent about their material goals and objectives and are using the instruments of law to achieve those goals and objectives. They would like a lawyer who is is not perturbed by those perspectives, even if not sharing those.

I also found it much later that Chanakya had once said that even though appearances by themselves do not matter, a king still need to keep up appearances, for the folks - lest they might doubt the capabilities of the king.

As someone who's doubted their employability while being in a T1 NLU, I can assure you that the fear is largely misplaced.

Almost every one gets a decent job at the top 3 NLUs. If not a high paying law firm, then a well-known litigator's office or a highly established firm offering an in-house counsel role.

In any case, the trajectory to ensure your employability at a T1 NLU is really very simple: Study just enough to not be academically ranked in the bottom 20% of your batch. If you come from an English-speaking background, remain sober at least half the time & attend classes regularly, then you're probably halfway through already. Plus, credit-based colleges like nalsar will also allow you to practically half your rank in as less as one or two semesters as well.

And for anyone who is currently ranked in the bottom portions of the batch and reading this, internships are your opportunity to shine. I got PPO offers from multiple T1 firms while being in the bottom 30%, primarily because I worked that hard in the internships.

So, bottom line? Getting into a top NLU may be an inherently randomised privilege, but it undoubtedly alleviates any reasonable fears of unemployment you could have. Don't bother too much, and let law school charm you now!

It's sad but most people saw it coming from miles away. This behaviour of blindly building NLUs by state governments, barely funding these places and not to forget the absence of acceptance of any kind from the central government. There was a time when we believed that alloting NLUs with the INI tag will improve things, but now...even if they are alloted the INI tag, survival will be hard.

This is such a stupid post.This person keep writing the same thing everywhere, remember reading a very similar answer try other day.

It's unheard of for a NLU to receive 240 job offers, it has never happened and it will never happen. The quality of students is pretty similar in the top 3, they only got allotted different places due to a difference of 3-4 marks. Stop deluding yourself, no one will be eating the jobs of others, and think about how you are going to place 240 kids, a number which will increase to 500 soon.

I don’t think anyone will take drops beyond 3 years which amounts to 4 attempts anyway. But oh boy majority of nlsiu grads who want to join corporate become AO around this age only - the reason being that they failed in their semester exams or they just took a drop year when they were 18 already after high school. Either way , majority of my counterpart at a tier-1 joined law firm around 23-24 and some even 25

Heyo. No that was someone else. But I will lie if I will mention that I wasn’t influenced by the post. More reason to post is because I have SLS. And yes my attempt was third but my drop years were 3 cause I had to take a break after school to chalk out a plan. Now that I have figured it out and have good options , I am feeling satisfied.

BTW , thanks for clarifying stuff about Jindal. I can connect with you about the scholarship thing being a middle class kid. But sad to know that JGLS won’t be offering a 100% scholarship anymore

MNLU Nagpur is ▮▮, they don't have any money left to do anything. Fees has been increased a lot for the upcoming academic year to cover up for that. To top that, the admin is completely crazy, the place is rotten. Of course, there are zero placements to show for the 2023 Batch. It's worrying to think of the 100+ students (who have spent 15-18 lakhs in 5 years) graduating without jobs, in this economy, from a single college!

I m saying this with hand over my heart and not trying to be a troll-

Devote, DEVOTE, first 6-8 months to learning, keep everything (other than health) aside. You need to quickly except that you hardly know about the practical aspects and have to learn a lot to be productive at work place. Come on time, be humble, be available, and implement feedback quickly.

Hi

I joined Tata Steel a year ago and this is my first in house job. So I am not qualified to answer your first question.

I have not seen freshers being hired here since a minimum of 3 years experience is mandatory. This varies from one company to another.

A promotion can take anywhere between 2.5 (if you are outstanding at your work) -5 years (if you are okay at your work) of working in the company.

The growth is slow compared to law firms. A friend working in-house for the past 4 years suggested that frequent job switches are required in in-house positions to grow (salary wise).

Idk how people are arriving at the conclusion that MNLU is better than SLSP cuz IMO its JGLS>SLS>Mnlu (provided that you have either (a) received some scholarship at JGLS cuz 50 lacs is way to much honestly; or (b) you come from a wealthy family and shedding out 50lacs isn't a big deal)

Back in 2018, we were told that MNLU is the new NLUD and all that went to shit. Now I am graduating from SLS with an offer from a T1 law firm in hand along with around 45 other students from my college who have offers from different Tier 1s while kids from MNLU are whining with no offers in hand. Check out threads on MNLU on LI if you want to confirm their track records.

It is near impossible to get a job in the the disputes practice of a white shoe firm after an LLM, even if it is from Harvard or Yale. But there are quite a few folks who have transitioned to a career in Big Law, although most of them practice transactional law. A fair few of them get reassessed after their first or second year (typically a few months after they have successfully completed getting barred considering first year associates are termed law clerks and not associates until they complete all licensing formalities). Having said that, its not impossible -- I have heard of at least one senior from law school who practices US litigation and international arbitration at a top NY shop. But then he is an exception in many ways -- guy is probably overqualified for the job considering he was up for partner at his previous firm and is a quite senior in the profession and generally well-known in the community.

If you are interested in international arbitration, then I recommend studying in Europe as it is generally cheaper than the US or UK, tends to have more scholarship/aid, and allows you to intern with the firms there, which are generally more open to foreign lawyers, especially if you are skilled in English legal writing.

Speaking as someone who came back to India after doing an LLM, I would say dont do it if you intend to practice international arbitration. There is barely any work to go around and I cant say people are professionally treated. There is crazy oversupply and standards have fallen long and hard. It is probably the only practice area that attracts qualified and experienced lawyers who are coerced into accepting minimum wages internships/traineeships for (increasingly many) years. And thats only the beginning, prospects only dip lower as one ascends the law firm ladder, where "native" lawyers who can also litigate having a distinct edge over others. Even compared to other practice areas, it is well accepted that in international arbitration the hours are brutal, drafting is unskilled and unnecessarily prolix, and in general you get -- forgive me if I'm getting my metaphors twisted -- much more "bang" for the buck than your peers.

Let us all chip in and create a new list for A0 salaries for 2023 grads to ensure pay transparency across law firms. Request you all to follow the following format:

Firm Name, Location- Salary (annual fixed pretax + bonus)

For Example, AZB, Mumbai- 15L+ 2L

(PS- This is just an example and is not reflective of the actual salary)

Even if the pay is equal, I guess its justified in the sense that the quality of work that KCO Mumbai does is far more superior and while others are earning financially, you will be earning much more in terms of experience and learning. Further, the variable part is different for KCO and is mostly higher in Mumbai since variable pay depends on team performance and revenue generated.

Department of Justice, Govt. Of India deals with SC, HCs & Judicial Courts of UTs. Any uniform update/circular related to them like revision of pay/da, etc. issued by DoJ.

Currently they've not update about implementation on their webiste but from various sources claiming it has been implemented.

Don't worry the upcoming advt. of DJS or DHJS exam whenever out will clear the air that whether implemented or not.