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I'm a 2023 graduate soon to be joining a law firm. I will be a first generation lawyer/corp person. What would you advise me as I start a new phase of my life in the coming 2 months?
Please share your thoughts on anything or everything that comes to you related to work life, non-work life, starting life in big cities, relationships, family, leaving or staying in corp, on making a name for yourself (or not), etc.
What do you all think should I do? If it was Tier-1 uk college , I would have not approached y’all. But I really am getting mixed opinions.
FOR INSTANCE - there are people who didn’t crack clat multiple times and ended at these universities (I have proof). I don’t want to end up with them. But at the same time UK as a country will virtually put me closer to Magic Circle Law firms compared to Nujs or nalsar. But their placements are not bad either , great infact.
GUYS I am in need for good advice. Please elaborately explain , point out my flaws in reasoning if I have any , but do give some advice which at least will give me a stable career.
RMNLU - Sheffield United - dips in and out of the league
Unemployed? Not really
Last year they paid 15.8
This year it's 15.6
Your Friend,
Haaland from Man City.
Solution is simple:
1. Have all law students in India enter through CLAT, like NEET, this will decrease the number of law students and increase value per student
2. Make AIBE multi parter, like in the UK, this will further filter out inadequate candidates, which again will increase value per candidate
3. Newly opened NLUs should give 20k stipend for students who want to practice at HCs, like GNLU, for 2 years to differentiate themselves from similarly perceived private colleges
Near areas
MNLU, Aurangabad - Wrexham - Nth tier but big supporter base and a sugar daddy
From my observation, the TNNLU crowd has not been solely focussed on the corporate side alone. There is a healthy mix of inclination towards academia, policy research, civil services, judiciary and also litigation.
Alums from the batch of 2018 and 2019 have cleared upsc and state judicial services. I know your question was posted on the corporate side but giving you a clearer picture.
I worked at VA, Mumbai for 1.5 years. Almost all the allegations are true and not even exaggerated. The pay is below the industry standards and the work environment is worse, ▮▮▮. There are seniors with 10+ years of experience at the firm and then there are mostly freshers, so there's a huge gap which never gets filled up.
▮▮▮
The firm has seen so many people leave due to their own doing, and now they are paranoid because of the high attrition rate, which has led them to become even more weird and toxic in their antics.
At the Mumbai office, the corporate team is a one man army. ▮▮▮ apart from Mr. Bomi daruwala.
But Law schools(even nlu's) on the other hand have various kinds of reservations
I have some friends working in Mumbai who pursued law from my school and went to the same college as me, I really want them to do well as well. Every one of us has a decent job and is working hard. The blanket assumption that friendships in law school are not actual friendships is flawed. We have helped each other through tough times and have been there always.
You can find the best of people if you look hard enough, maybe T1 NLU rat race is something else. But bonds can be created at law school which last forever.
Ps: Don't bring the financial considerations into play because most people who can afford jgls also reject it. I mean like only 1000 people even write lsat.
Consider what do you want out of your career, is it money, is it work life balance, is it satisfaction, all of these might be there in law as well, if you find the right balance, a T1 job or litigation might not be the only ways ahead. Similarly, work on these for your other options for your career, always take your families financial situation in account when considering these decisions. That should be a must, talk to your sibling if you have one, that helps me out.
I think you posted before as well, this was your 3rd attempt right?
For the points enlisted by you above, you will get support from your seniors in the team or otherwise as well, and they are lot of young lawyers who can respond better.
Even I heard from a PA that hirings for 2024 batch may go down.
Nlu-D - competitive but not toxic
A. Just keep your head down and work hard and try to learn in each deal. Don't be lazy and try to get easy answers. Be inquisitive and ask questions if you don't understand something (ie something other than what you can understand by doing a little research yourself).
Be focussed on nutrition and sleep - they affect your mood and focus a lot and some people can leave them on the way side when there is a lot on their plate. Ideally, exercise a little bit each day. Lastly, keep your hobbies intact and realise you have to choose your battles, somethings just aren't worth fighting for. Don't make work your life no matter how much you might respect that one partner / senior who slogs aways at all hours and is very knowledgable [he / she doesn't have anything else going on in their life and no matter how much they make it seem - this work isn't moving mountains or impacting someone's life or death]. I have made many of these mistakes but now I am a reformed person - don't make these mistakes.
2. How do you keep track of multiple deals and the stages they have reached?
A. This really isn't an issue. You won't lose track of deals or the stages they have reached. If anything, deals and your work (and especially mistakes) might come in your dreams (not kidding!).
3. How do you manage time while working on multiple transactions and different tasks, especially when everything is urgent?
A. This depends on your team structure. If you are ultimately only reporting to one partner (which is the best IMO) then your priorities will be determined by them. If you're working with multiples partners then you will need to communicate well but you will also get buggered occasionally for no fault of yours since the partners will want to ostensibly keep their relationships healthy.
4. What are some general corporate etiquette to be mindful of? Things like talking to seniors, conveying bandwidth, etc.
A. Just be a normal person and everything will be fine.
5. How to make friends at office? Do they actually become friends or remain office acquaintances?
A. This depends on you and your friends. There are no hard and fast rules. I am friends with some of my former colleagues (and even some former bosses, the nicer ones).
6. Any other tips.
Let me re-emphasize: As much as possible, take the longer and more painful route while you are trying to understand something new so that you learn from that oppurtunity [so no blogs or asking a senior or a colleague - only the text of the statute or regulation or case laws and constructing your own mental map]. Even small learnings really do compound and after a few years you will be surprised how much more you know. For example, this one research that I had done when I was an A1 had helped me give a quick answer on a quasi-securitisation structure some 6-7 years later - it was painful to do that research late in the night (especially since it wasn't required, I just wanted to understand why a partner was saying something on tax) and, after all that when I took a few cases to them to disagree with what they had said earlier, that partner told me why I was wrong in 2 minutes (versus my many many hours of work - ~15/20 hrs).
If you are mindful when you work, then something as mundane as proof reading is also an opportunity to optimise - a couple of examples are below, (a) keep "match case" on and replace the defined term with the same word but highlighted, that way you can easily know when the highlighted word is incorrectly not capitalised in one or more places (this makes sense in some scenarios more than others, for example, when you converting "Clause" to "Article" when you're turning the SHA into the AOA); and (b) when converting tables from excel to work, replace double spaces with single space (it will solve half your formatting issues with those tables). You learn these seemingly small and irrelevant tricks as you go along and after a while they really speed up your work.
This finally leads me to the oft missed point. If you are a transactional lawyer then you are spending 80% of your waking hours with MS Word. You need to know that software and its shortcut keys at least as well as CAs / finance folks know MS Excel. If you do a little research (there are papers written on this subject), shortcut keys make life way faster and easier (and people will think you are a magician but that's besides the point). You don't need any classes for this. Simply google or press Alt and follow the guide which comes up on MS Word - use those shortcut keys purposefully for a few days and commit to your muscle memory. Don't be like those fools who are ten years into the profession and still drag thier mouse to the format painter each time or to create a table or to create a page break.
The college does not matter for clearing the Civil service or judiciary. This is because these exams primarily test candidates on their knowledge, reasoning, and analytical skills, all of which must be developed through self-study and preparation without the aid of the college- evidenced from the fact that most people clearing it are from local not heard of colleges.
2) "Certainly NLU Delhi has really good faculty. I'm sure NALSAR wouldn't be lot different."
NALSAR does not, at all, especially in the coming months as most "better" professors are moving out. The thing is, considering the subjects like law and BA subjects, you dont really need a good professor to explain it to you, it can be learnt on your own pretty well, infact better. 90% of NALSAR students will NOT attend classes if not for the attendance requirement.
3) "The college does get a lot of funding and spends it properly on the college. Infrastructure wise I believe both colleges are pretty decent. Don't know about NALSAR adminstration"
On that front, we clearly lose, will give you that one. No funding and bull**** admin.
4) "NALSAR is far away from the city so you're mostly on campus."
There is good bus connectivity to the city (within 30 mins) so most students are never on campus. Also city mein kya hai yr, shamirpet is also great especially for couples, with the exquisite resorts and open space around.
5)"The student perception according to me is starting to tilt towards NLU Delhi."
Maybe LI threads have given students a reality check on corporate life after the s*** those coaching ▮▮▮ told em.
6)"Don't know about funding at NALSAR"
Pretty stingy tp disburse funds and do not cover anything, which could be a nightmare for international moots.
"Basically you'll be lot more happier at NALSAR" Not really, pretty toxic crowd, especially a newer batch.
7) "It's certainly difficult call to take but I'd say currently(2023) NLUD is still marginally better"
yeah, I guess
All they do is publish useless reports which highlight that disadvantaged communities are more subject to the noose than others, without the basic reasoning that perhaps there is prevalence of more bloody and brutal crime in such communities (Statistically and logically). Apart from this, they file useless SLPs against death penalties long settled and awaiting execution, using the legal process to delay execution. (even the President of India having denied them relief). Seriously, the Supreme court must stop interfering so much.
What is your point? No death penalty. Seriously when that guy ▮▮▮ starts talking, my blood boils with the privileged position he is coming from in his talk against the DP, probably he doesnt have to deal with habitual sexual offenders in his lifetime ever.
Why do people connect "law" with UPSC when there is nothing in common except those BA subjects?
The necessary implication is, that a property must remain intact for four bloodline generations, which means, if your father inherits property from his grand father's father's self acquired property, it becomes ancestral in nature. Whether it is a coparcenory or not would depend on the HUF agreements etc., in the absence of which, it is necessarly owned by 4 generations till your father's great-grandfather dies (karta), when you will also automatically own an equal share.
The demand for extended timings by the fifth years was never made out of sincere efforts to promote a good law school culture. Fifth years have been least involved in helping the junior batches academically or otherwise.
Thirdly, when push came to shove during the farewell night where the fifth years made a mockery of institutional ethics by engaging in open consumption of contrabands in the auditorium, despite having the next day reserved as unofficial farewell.
The fine imposed on fifth years is absolutely justified. It should set a precedent that you cannot toy with an academic institute and mould its sanctity for your unethical pursuits.
2. This course includes forensic science courses. Substantial expenditure is being incurred for renting a new hostel, new academic building and building a lab. Given how the government barely provides any funding, it stands to reason that the university will try to recoup the costs from the students' fees only.
3. I personally believe that public universities should keep all courses affordable in an ideal world. However, this is not an ideal world. As for your comment on ranking, it lacks logic to the extent of expenditure for programmes not being dependent on what ranking an university has. Moreover, what you mentioned is simply not accurate. NUJS has always been within top 5 law institutions of the country by any and every metric ever since it started. I am not going to argue about its exact rank. The fact remains that most of the NLUs including NLSIU have increased their fees in the recent years. Is it a good thing for students? No. Is it the reality with decreasing state expenditure on NLUs and decision of the Centre not to fund NLUs? Yes. Including hostel fees, several NLUs charge close to 3.5 LPA for even their BA LLB courses.
4. For those actually facing financial problems, a couple of points that may help. SBI gives collateral free loans to every student who has got into NUJS. The same holds for NLSIU. It is part of their policy. The university also offers upto 100% tuition fee waiver as part of merit cum means scholarships.
jumpin024@gmail.com
-Tejas ▮▮▮
And your views are quite myopic since you seem to only know what’s going on in your college. NLUD achievements keep happening every year.This convenient dismissal of other achievements beyond placements has been the trending argument of these older NLU students ever since NLUD started out-performing them in these fields. There is a reason why some colleges like the old IITs and even in DU, places like Stephens, produce so many top IAS rankers. The quality of education is better at NLUD, imo. It’s more academically rigourous and unlike NALSAR, people don’t sit on their alumni backs for easy jobs. And I’ve met students from enough top NLUs to know that the quality from NALSAR is not that much different or better.
The location doesn’t matter argument is also weak. As someone else said, people can intern at NLUD after class which is impossible at NALSAR. And watching live-streamed SC proceedings online is quite a laughable equation to actually interning there. And yes, many folks do go for litigation and clerkships in later years post-classes. GLC hardly has any teaching so there is no comparison of that place with NLUD. And lol, I’ve seen their placements, they hardly have high numbers and for batch sizes much larger than NLUD, they don’t get more PPOs either. You should get your facts checked before arguing.
Honestly, I think your defensiveness lets off the fact that NALSAR is no longer some undisputed number 2 like its alumni keep claiming.
And as far as placements go, I agree that NLUD’s placements are not nearly as high but placements are a function of alumni base largely and NLUD’s placements have progressively improved with the same number of students in a batch (80). More importantly, NLUD’s batch sizes have been smaller by 40 students compared to NALSAR and NUJS for all the batches that have graduated so far, so the numbers will be higher but look at the % being placed. It’s nearly the same. And no, any student can sit for recruitment, the RCC doesn’t only choose the top 40 or something.
Personally, NALSAR is not a better bet at this point. It’s lost its sheen for a while now and it’s student achievements are certainly not much better than NLUD’s. For such a massive alumni base, hardly anyone wants to teach there. People who claim that the college doesn’t help in UPSC/CAT/GMAT are simply in denial because on all these fronts, NLUD has been better than NALSAR hands down. Even in Moots and ADR and debating achievements, NLUD has won significantly more prestigious international competitions. You can keep shouting placements all you like, but if the placements were that bad, students wouldn’t keep dropping NALSAR and NLS for NLUD.
1. Yup, MNLU has had a really disappointing track record of placements up until now. But even so, it's really improving as far as the students suggest, and a lot of things change in 5 years.
2. Don't forget that someone from MNLUM can always join SLS or JGLS, but you can't say the opposite.
I recently came across this testimony from someone who had a really tough time at JGLS. You may take note: https://www.instagram.com/p/CsvIYsPsULU/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
3. I might be a bit biased in this one, but I personally feel that if placements are your top priority, then HNLU/NLUO perform wayyy better than MNLU. If location is not much of a concern, then I really don't understand why someone would go for MNLUM over institutes that have historically had a better record at placing their students.
Best of luck pal!
"I am a first generation lawyer and a GLC graduate. I have faced no discrimination in finding opportunities. Many of my batch mates have joined Tier 1 firms and are doing well there. Others are with senior advocates, and while all of them do come from well to do/middle class households, most do not come from legal backgrounds. I don’t think you will face any loss in opportunities at GLC.
I loved my time at GLC. The freedom is extraordinary, and you are actually treated like an adult. Some of the teachers are very helpful and will mentor you actively if you reach out. I mention Professors Shamim Dalvi and Krishu Daswani especially in this context. The visiting faculty, who do take regular lectures, are also great. I don’t know if any NLU has an AZB partner teaching arbitration or contracts; it is true for GLC.
Now the negatives:
- There is no spoon-feeding whatsoever. The lectures are based on the MU syllabus, and are not designed to train students in critical thinking.
- GLC is not particularly academic, and the culture is exam based not assignment based. The few assignments that may be required (I have heard that MU has made assignments compulsory now, and they make up part of the grade), will likely be cut paste jobs/poor quality.
- Some of the teachers are of very poor quality (but I believe you will have them everywhere).
- NLUs are definitely more rigorous, and passing through one will guarantee that you will be a graduate of a minimum standard.
- No forced discipline. You must be self motivated.
While it is not difficult to meet the same standard at GLC, meeting it would be due to your hard work or initiative, not because of the academic requirements of the college. The best way to for inexperienced students to level up is to join one of the more “serious” committees/clubs: ADR, Moot Court, Law Review, and to do more than level up, do an internship.
An interesting point to consider:
What you must understand is that GLC is a traditional law college with immense diversity. Our fees are negligible and we have a 50% quota that brings in people from weaker sections. For most privileged people (who make up the bulk of NLU students), “quota students” with different accents, attitudes and life experiences often comes as a culture shock.
I, however, feel that this is an enriching experience, bringing people out of echo chambers and forcing them to look other realities in the eye, and make friends with people from all walks of life.
Good luck!"
But as the opening day draws closer, i cannot help but overthink my decision of pursuing law. Most of my time these days is spent reading things on "why not to pursue law".
I am scared, what if i turn out to be miserable in law school? What if i have to drop out?
The fear of being unemployed, being looked down on as failure has been giving me nightmares.
Is this normal, does every law aspiration experiences this?
Didn't they already have a Bsc course of some kind.
Was going through the details and was taken aback by the fee structure.
4 lakhs for a Bsc LLB course! Outrageous if anything.
This officially makes NUJS the costliest NLU, the shamelessness to set your fee this high when you are barely placing in the top 5 rankings.
Is this course worth it?
#1 HNLU admin ▮▮▮. Hence this Chanda Collection drive.
#2 This Chanda will be used by VCV and Registrar especially for procurement of Bullet proof cars, Z+ Security, Ambani ka Antillia, ▮▮▮ and AK47 to shoot students like Rocky Bhai (read ▮▮▮) did with Adheera.
Cons are the Administration and the Exam Pattern. VC is leaving soon and we have an examination reforms committee set in place so if everything goes well we might see these cons disappear in a couple of years.
Pros are the peer group which is extremely diverse (No domicile quota yet) it might get implemented next year tho, Single hostel rooms and excellent placements with a good alumini network.
I would keep it above GNLU and below WBNUJS.
Overall any good image NLUJ has is because of its student community and none of it can be attributed to the administration, some faculty is extremely good others are average.
A tip, if you are looking to join the university, please don't opt for BA, it will make your already stressful lawschool life even more stressful.
The best part of VA Mumbai is that they do provide room for growth and a good work life balance.
Additionally, in reference to a particular incident, I was working on one of the assignments in which the partner clarified every silly doubt of mine at literally any point of time and not screamed on me like the negative comments here are stating.
If you are capable, you would be entrusted with other assignments like an opportunity to get yourself engaged in the newsletters and knowledge management sessions.
Therefore, be more open to pushing your limits, constructive feedbacks and learning in the initial years of your career.
The informations are true and sources are judges personal insta & fb handel and also few YouTube videos. They actually own BMW/Range Rover car. Anyone can visit & verify. So please remove the contested tag.
THANKS
Can you please prove that statement with numbers ???And also mention the sources of those numbers
- Work culture is good in the firm. You won't find toxic kind of partner or PA there.
- Compared to the teams of other law firms, workload in Tatva's litigation seems to be balanced.
- As an associate, you'll be reporting to multiple PAs and SAS because there is pooling system. And this pool system is not just for litigation, it's a cross-practice pool. Though in my experience, people usually never
The work hours are good. They will not expect you to slog like a law firm.
The culture is old fashioned because the average age of employees is high.
The pay is not very good. But the benefits/perks are amazing and adds 10% to your salary.
However, when you say Tata Company, there is a huge variation. There are several Tata Companies across several cities. So it is almost like working for totally different companies which have nothing in common except the broad ownership of Tata Sons.
1. Is that a Government Job ? 2. if yes, is it worth it to take an experience therein and come back to field ? 3. If it is not a Government job, is ICAI a good employer ? 4. Will this job create connections with people that will help in future practice ? This is the most important part as money is not the 'primary' target here but bright career is. Will this job look good on CV or for future job ? or help for Litigation practice
I have seen quite a few comments about JGLS which are to some extent false, I thought ill do a review as a student who has spent considerable time here.
1) Infrastructure : Nice infra but campus is getting overcrowded now due to 12k+ kids, triple sharing rooms and sometimes you wont get a seat in library. Its super frustating after paying alot of money
2) Crowd : Firstly please stop spewing bullshit, "everyone has a bmw/audi etc". Nope, most dont. My parents make 60lpa post tax, are nice professionals yet we cant afford luxury cars but we can afford JGLS easily. Most people are like me except 10% who are super rich. "Top law firm owner kids, top industrialists" Once again false, Top Industrialists send their kids outside where the fee is 50lpa not to fkn sonipat and I havent seen a single top law firm owner's kid except one of the khaitan cousins. Most kids have household income of 50-90lpa where JGLS is easily affordable but they arent super rich. I can count so many times that my peers have told me they cant pursue litigation because there is no money or crib about not having better placements at JGLS. Drug abuse is there but not that rampant, most people just drink/smoke.
3) Opportunities/Placements: Placements are bad, they place 10% batch in tier 1 but not 1% or 5%, those are false stats. You will have to compete alot for all opportunities tho they're available in plenty
RGNUL - Leicester - one season great then relegated
YET i couldn't make to any T1 or T2 law firms even after having professional connections,
REASON "I WAS FROM NON-NLU COLLEGE" 😣
But I leared through verified sources & personally saw that in many T1 firms many associates were not even did more than 2-3 internships forget about extra curricular activities & no analytical skills BUT still they hired & are getting more than 1Lakh / month salary BECAUSE THEY WERE FROM NLU OR NEPOS (TOP 7)
I thought that atleast i can bag more than 70K/month package but currently i am getting 22k/month (after 2yr exp). I was not from financial sound background so didn't took the risk for CLAT.
LEARNING : NO ONE CARE & POLITICS WILL CONTINUE. & CRACK CLAT OR MAKE NEPO SOURCE
Some tier-3 nlus do not even have a stable placement cell. And those who do have - are likely inactive because nothing good is going on there aside the nlu tag. MNLU Nagpur kids feel that they own the world whereas in reality the placement stats are not even out and they don’t have ANY tier-1 recruitment drive.
NUSRL and DSNLU are sleeping with problems plaguing their administration.
The only stable nlu like NUALS is still the hope.
Any solutions for these nlus?