I am going to graduate next year and have interest to work in justice delivery system. So, i choose to join judicial service but got confused that which one would be better PCS (J) or JAG. I request LI users to provide detailed comparison between them so that it can help to decide.
Both are dream job of law graduates. One is military service while other is civil service. Let's compare b/w them :-
JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (JAG)
1. SELECTION: All India level exam, seats are very limited (last year 6 for male & 3 for women). Only candidates age between 21 to 27yr age are eligible & no concept of reservation. Initially everyone granted SSC max. for 14yr on expiry (if not fit & eligible) released from the service. But if fit & eligible than only Permanent Commission granted (before expiry b/w 10 to 14yr). So not only cracking exam is tough but continuing in service is more tough. Also there is no scheme of lateral entry.
2. JURISDICTION : It only deals with criminal matters related within the Military provided under Army/Navy/Airforce Act. Any causality to civilians or if rape/murder/CH done within armed forces than only civilian (district) courts can deals. So the work scope is very much limited.
3. POWER : Simple punishment to Death penalty can be offered. Trial court presided by min. 5 or max. 9 member in which judgement by majority followed based on jury advised.
4. PROMOTION SCOPE : Join at Lt. and max. can be promoted upto Major General (min. 27yr of service required). Majority get retired at Lt. Colonel or Colonel rank and only best may make for Brigadier & Major General.
5. PAY & ALLOWANCES : Starting salary Rs. 56100 & max. 1.44L (Major General). Allowances paid among Army/Navy/Airforce grades are much higher than any govt. services. If exclude DA (currently 42%), only cash allowances makes around Rs.94k to 1.2L/M.
6. FACILITIES : Mostly you'll be allotted well semi furnished type 5 bungalows (sometime flat accommodation also) from starting. From Brigadier rank fully furnished type 6 bungalows allotted. Independent Car facilities or TA in lieu given from starting.
7. WORK CULUTRE : They also have mixed culture i.e., challenging but interesting. It is a judicial service so free from any political or other pressures and is job in military so definitely no room for laziness or pending works. All rules/ethics/conducts strictly monitored or followed and no mercy on failing or breaching.
8. SECURITY & TRANSFER : Regarding this there is no issue like PCS (J), an adequate number of security given at every level & everywhere. The transfers done anywhere but within armed forces jurisd. include HQs or in central ministries or other places as central govt. deems fit.
STATE JUDICIAL SERVICE [PCS (J)]
1. SELECTION : State level exam, seats are high, candidate b/w 21 to 35yr age can appear & age relaxation + few seats for reserved candidates. No SSC or PC rule applied & posted for fixed age i.e., 60 for district, 62 for HC & 65 for SC. Lateral Entry scheme are there at DJ, HC & SC level. Thus it is Easier than JAG to crack.
2. WORK SCOPE : They have wider areas to deal from criminal, civil to quasi-judicial matters. Even they can initiate proceeding against military personnel's even if civilians not involved on grounds time to time notify by Central Govt. They deals with matters pertains to both State & Central Law in India. Even they can deal any other matters if not expressly or impliedly barred by any Act/notification.
3. POWER : The actual court power is here. Unlike JAG, every JO's have independent court & vested with independent power. No jury or majority rule apply (except in HC/SC). Even death sentence can be passed by single judge (subject to approval of HC). District Court judges have much power than counterpart JAG Grades.
4. PROMOTION SCOPE : joining at Civil Judge (Jr. Divi.) for lower judiciary & ADJ for Higher Judiciary and max. can be promoted upto the post of Chief Justice of India (last post of Indian Judiciary). For HC 1/3rd seats reserved for district judiciary. promotion is easier than JAG as one can reach to the highest post of district judiciary within 15 to 20yr of service (in ADJ within 11 to 16yr).
5. PAY & ALLOWANCES : Civil Judge starting Rs.77840 & ADJ starting Rs. 1.45L/m. So min. 78K & max. 2.8L (CJI). Allowances are nearly at par with All India Service grades but very less than JAG officers. Round figure of cash allowances ranges between Rs.12K to 30K for Civil Judges while Rs. 25K to 70K for DJ ranks.
6. FACILITIES : Type 5 semi furnished flat accommodation provided to every judges of district judiciary except PDJs or Special Judges (in DJ ranks) or CJMs (who get type 6 furnished bungalows). Regarding car except PDJ/ADJ-1/CJMs/Special Judges (in DJ ranks) all are provided either pool car or fuel allowances.
7. WORK CULTURE : Mixed culture, free from all type of pressures or interference. Strictness but less than JAG.
8. SECURITY & TRANSFER : At starting no security provided except PDJs/CJMs/ADJs/ SDJMs/JM (holding special criminal courts) however in many states armed-home guard facilities deployed at judicial accommodations. As per SC order every district court judges shall be transferred on completing 3yr at one place. Transfers mainly within states but deputation varies as may be posted in central ministries or sometime in military departments too.
Conclusion : Except 1-2 factors PCS (J) seems to have better opportunities than JAG. Well both have merit and demerit. it is upon candidates to decide keeping various factors in mind. Whoever want to join & serve for Army/Navy/Airforce but non combat department & deals with legal matters, JAG is for them but if have sole dream to work for pure justice delivery system and eager to be part of judicial system of India then PCS (J) is best option.
There was a detailed comment wrt the comparison between Judge Advocate General Branch & the State Public Services Commission exam. However, I found it to be factually incorrect and decided to pen down a full fledged comparison:
1. Exam:
JAG-There is no written exam for entry into the JAG branch of Army and Navy(no direct recruitment in IAF, offrs absored from the regular cadre). Vacancies are mostly in single digit(6-7 in Army & 2-3 in Navy) .All law graduates attaining a stipulated %age during their graduation can appear for the rigorous Services Selection Board(SSB) which is a five day interview process.
PCSJ-On the other hand, there is a state judicial services exam conducted by the respective state judicial services commn. In some states, the HC also conducts the recruitment process.
2. Certainity of the exam
Since the entry into the JAG is conducted by the SSB under the purview of the UPSC, there is a certainity (Notifications come out every year) of the recruitment taking place every year. No undue delay in notification/release of. result etc
The PCSJ exam is highly certain and notification based, for instance the UPPCSJ took place after a gap of five years which adds to the anxiety of the candidates and is highly unfair to say the least. Coming to the results, there is no calender which is followed. Everything takes its own sweet time. There are lots of instances of favouritism in these state level exams. Thus, the candidate is forced to appear for multiple state judiciary exams.
3. Perception of the exam
Recruitment into the Armed Forces(Army, Navy, IAF) is controlled by the UPSC which reflects that the entire process of recruitment is fair and transparent, like all other UPSC exams.
Since the State PSCs are regularly marred by complaints of irregularity, favouritism and corruption, this generally gives an impression that it is a typical state level exam.
4. Perception of the service:
The State PCSJ appointed cannot be compared with the Armed forces or the Civil Servants recruited by the UPSC. At best, they can be compared to any officer selected through the state administrative services, state police services etc.
I haven't come to the allowances part yet. The JAG offrs are paid higher than the regular offrs due to the Non Practising Allowance(NPA) which is added to their regular salary. On top of that, JAG offrs are provided fully furnished( accommodations to their place of posting(Unlike judicial offrs who are given a meagre allowance for furniture, tech etc once in 3-4 yrs). You don't have to spend a single penny on your accommodation after shifting to a new town. In field areas JAG offrs are entitled to keep 2 accommodations(in any city) They can also avail free flight tickets for themselves, spouse and children ( Certain stipulated number of tickets). Until recently, the offrs could easily travel via IAF jets while coming home on leave, the rule has now been changed which allows the offrs to travel on chartered Flights(Similar to regular flight, these flights are run by airlines specifically for Armed Forces without any charge, however family members cannot travel). Air India also provides 50 % concession to defence personnel and their families(Rebate in other airlines is a maximum of 25pc).
Unlike the judicial services. the children of the defence offrs can avail all benefits( treatment in Military Hospitals, access to CSD) until they are 25 years of age(21 in case of other govt services).
The JAG officers are provided accommodation in military cantonments which is generally the cleanest and greenest part of any town. However small the town, it will have all top notch facilities ranging from Golf Courses, Race Course, Clubs, Swimming Pools sports club, tax-free booze to theatres( PS- free of cost). On the contrary, a State judicial services offices is provided nothing more than an accommodation(that too in a crowded area in the middle of the town) if he is posted(mostly) in a Tier 3 city/ rural area.
6. Training and Posting
The initial training of JAG offrs takes place in Officers Training Academy, Chennai(Naval Academy, Kerala) for Navy JAg offrs) After commissioning the training is done in Indian Military Institute, Delhi, technically all big metropolitan cities. As far as posting is concerned, JAG offrs of the army are not posted to far flung and remote areas like the judicial offrs( Civil Judge Junior Division of Balasore or Jalgaon). They are mostly(90 pc of their service) posted in Command/Corps Headquarters( All capital cities or top 2-3 cities of a state). The posting scene is even better in the Navy where JAG offrs hardly get posted to any city other than Mumbai, Kochi, Vizag, Calcutta etc.
Another fact which needs to be taken in into consideration is that the transfer of judical offrs takes place only in a particular state(Eg Rajasthan), which further reduces the chances of staying in a big city. You will not get posted to Jaipur more than once or twice in your career.Since it is a state service, there is no concept of central deputation(Delhi posting).
JAG offrs travel through the length and breadth of the country on postings and also get an opportunity to get posted in Delhi.
7. Promotion:
A judicial offr would start off as a civil judge(Jr divsion) and can at most rise to an ADJ/DJ( Fag end of career). Someone commented that a civil judge could be promoted to DJ within 15 yrs, I doubt its veracity as a DJ is generally a person who is 55 + yrs of age. A jag offr starts off as a Lieutenant and could rise to the rank of a Major General(JAG of Indian Army). Again, someone commented that only a few rise to the rank of a Maj Gen. Agreed, but in the Armed forces even if you dont get promoted, your pay scale is equated to the higher ranks, unlike the judiciary where the pay scales are not equated. So an ADJ will continue to draw lesser salary than a DJ even if he has missed the promotion. On the contrary, a Colonel/Brigadier's pay is equated to a a major General/Lt Gen even if he doesn't make the cut.
Have a good look at this article, clearly shows that JAG offers are at the top of the pay scales in government services, much higher pay than judiciary whatsoever
My one take - Go & appear for both as you've enuough time to prepare for it. You can easily manage them, just follow syllabus and relevant advices. Many candidates did same in past and cleared both and joined according to their objectives.
It's good that you've decided your path but these all are competative + age fixed exams so, reling on one & ignoring other opp. is not an identity of smart law candiate. Every year a lot of law graduates appear for all exams which they are eligible even though they've decided their path. So i can also suggest you to appear for other exams too as competitions are high now.
Regarding pay/promotion/merit/demerit etc is a layer part of discussion.
The big problem with JAG is that it is SSC (Short Service Commission). You get 14 years and if you don't get PC ("Permanent Commission") you're out. Getting PC involves a lot of politics and ass kissing and it's far from a sure shot. Another problem with JAG is that you often have to keep moving. You'll be before the AFT for the two or so months it sits but beyond that you will have to keep travelling for court martials. Say you're posted in Delhi and an incident happens in some army unit in Nagaland. You might have to go to Nagaland for the duration of the court martial. Beyond that, pay and facilities are slightly better than judges (however no pension unless you get PC).
1. Myth 1: Not everyone gets a Permanent Commission (PC)
99.9% of the JAG officers are accorded permanent commission. There is no reason to not provide PC unless the officer gets involved in corruption, moral turpitude and certain heinous offences under the Army Act.
Myth 2: Lots of unnecessary travel
A person posted in Delhi would never be sent to the other end of the country like Northeast. That's precisely the reason why the IA is divided into geographical and regional commands. A JAG officers who is posted as an Assistant JAGs(Lt or Captain) of a formation headquartered in Dimapur could be called for a case in Imphal if the situation demands but you do not have to pay for air travel and stay. Mostly, he has to deal with the army cases of that jurisdiction in the respective high court.
Permanent Commission is not halwa that anyone can take it. PC given on the basis of merit, performance & recmndn of CO or HoD. It's a military job and there merit/performance/ recommendation strictly matter especially in Army sector & it cannot be ignored. However getting PC in JAG is easier than NDA grades.
Also only those are considered for PC who before expiry of 10yr of SSC period opt for PC, if not opted than max. he can served for 14yr, afterthat released.So not 99.9% but max. 70-80% JAG make for PC rest either failed or didn't opt.
What rubbish?? It is conspicuously clear from your statements that you are really not aware about the functioning and structure of the Army as an organisation.
Let me bring out the inconsistencies in your statements.
Statement 1: Easier for JAG officers to get PC than NDA grades:
Even a ten year year old school going kid who has a superficial knowledge of the forces would know that Officers who are ex-NDA(NDA grades in your lingo) are automatically given permanent commission. They do not have to apply for PC. Thus ,it is not fair to compare them with the JAG officers on this parameter.
Secondly, how did you arrive at the conclusion that only 70 percent of officers who opt for PC are finally awarded the same. 2011 le census me likha tha kya?? Seems that you are a civilian and have a very inadequate knowledge of the armed forces. Dhang se inputs leke aa...half baked knowledge ka koi fayda nhi hai.
Where it is mention (in that statement) that NDA gades have to opt pc???? The single statement (referred by you) only compared easiest way of getting pc b/w nda v. jag. The whole post is on PC for SSC grades not for nda's. This is how you found lame inconsistent in any arguments. You're an example of Aankh ka Andha hona.
Now coming to your lame objections
1. how getting PC in NDA than JAG is easy, read below ( i know you don't know about this) -
P𝙲 at 𝙽𝙳𝙰 𝚟. 𝙹𝙰𝙶 - Nda grades have to successfully complete (3yr course & physical training + one year regrious training (6 month more for airforce) at respective department) + individual performance report than pc given. Visit the link
Completeing these successfully is not an easy task & many left at middle, go & ask anyone who have atleast knowledge about defence or may read this article -
2. How 70% result arrived - Simple & dumb logical answer would be that how you arrived at 99.9% but thank god my knowledge is not like your. My analysis based on information shared by many military candidates, coaching faculties & researches. For example read this article you'll get some idea.
So i hope you got fully baked inputs & clarification that it is not your dad's firm where promotion done automatically. PC is a type of promotion for ssc grades and even in pvt. jobs no where in world promotion done automatically. Even a ten year year old school going kid who has a superficial knowledge would found flaws in statements better than you.
The recruitment is JAG is miniscule in number, there are very less chances to not give PC to those who opt for it. The last 15 batches of JAG officers witnessed 100 percent intake as far as permanent commission is concerned. The notification wouldn't say that everyone who opts PC would get it..for obvious reasons.
▮▮▮ Permanent commission is not a promotion whatsoever. After 10 ( not sure) years of service, a JAG officer is required to state whether he wants to opt for a PC or continue only till 14 years of service. Those who opt for it are given PC without much resistance subject to a clean record, frankly speaking he shouldn't be charged with corruption and certain offences under the Army Act.
By your statement, you mean to say that corrupt civil judges can sail smoothly till 60 years of age if the same charges are levelled against him. ▮▮▮
"▮▮▮ Permanent commission is not a promotion whatsoever"
Tum bhai maaf karo or ja kar pogo hi dekho, JAG/Civil Judge choro tm se advocacy bhi bahut muskil lag rhi. Still after sharing the authentic data's, repeating same lame & self-baked arguments again & again.
JAG officers ko leaves bhi zada milti hai.. irrespective of place of posting.. they are entitled to 60 days of annual leave and 20 day s of casual leave apart from the Central Government gazetted holidays. The leaves of judges in the High Court and more so in the Lower Judiciary are very inadequate... although they are much more than other government departments
Majority of allowances in defence sectors varies according to posting & not uniform like one who posted at non-peace station would have high allowances than who are posted at peace stations. Like my brother was once posted in disputed territory his allowances & facilities at that time was nearly double-triple than his batchmates posted at peace station.
My point of concern here is that on that basis should I give career advice to the confused candidate?? The way everyone is comparing b/w them is like that both are products & all commentators are seller who are duty bound to sale. On number of occasions, many legends from Defences & Judiciary said that "These are not job but responsibilites & if you want mere a job than don't join them"
I agree that the JAG officers posted in non- peace stations are paid higher than their counterparts in peace stations like Delhi etc.
However, you missed the guy's point completely. Did he, by any chance, compare the salary of JAG Officers in non- peace areas with the salaries of Judicial officers?
He is merely saying that even if you compare the salary/perks of JAG officers in peace areas with the salaries of judges posted in similar areas, that would turn out to be much higher. Perhaps, you should read the TOI article for your reference which doesn't even make a mention of non-peace areas/disputed areas while making a comparison of sorts between the defence and All India Services.
The link which you've shared was last updated in 2015 means prior 7 cpc than how it justified current scenerio & it only compare with AIS not with judges, than how asumpation draw w.r.t to judges?
Also you are saying to compare with peace station candidates OK. I am sharing you the OFFICIAL pdf link where JAG / other military officers perks & allowances given
Bro that guy disappeared as soon as you brought the TOI link reality before all & asked few simple questions 🤣 90% comments favoring JAG is posted by him as anyone can identify him by his false & baked information + reling on same old TOI article link in every comment. He didn't stopped there & to support his point he used "TRUST ME BRO" feature by saying he is from nalsar+T1 counsel and and child of judge/JAG & they told him to go only for JAG.
WELL now he has disappeared but he will come again with TRUST ME BRO like sources🤣
Is platform pe mostly reviews will be biased in favour of civil judges because the people might not be fully aware about the pay, perks and priveleges of JAG. It would be be better if you consult someone who is in JAG or any SSB Coaching Centre which is run by an Ex-JAG.
I’m from an army background + tier 1 NLU. Every JAG officer I’ve met has discouraged me from joining JAG. All of them say that I can do better things with my degree. Just for everyone’s information.
Having interned at the office of a chief metropolitan magistrate in Delhi, I can vouch for the fact that their offices are not in a great condition( typical sarkari office and shabby to say the least). If this is the sorry state of affairs in DJS, I can't imagine the offices in other states like Haryana, UP etc.
Which Delhi court's CMM office was not good?? I am practicing at Tis Hazari and appeared almost before all benches in Delhi. My colleagues are MM in Patiala, Rouse A., Tis Hazari, Dwarka, they all have good & decent chambers in which Rouse Avenue is on top. DJS is also know for its good infrastructure. So either you're lying or may interned when some construction was going.
To be fair, those chambers are "decent" by sarkaari standards only - not by any other reasonable standards. Although after a few years in litigation myself, I do understand that it does not get better than this, lol.
than why you're crying that CMM chamber was not good??? It's common logic a sarkari chamber would be decent by sarkari standard and not by Google or Microsoft standard. In Delhi or NCR regions either the chamber is of executives or Judges all are nearly in same conditions i.e., decent by sarkari standard.
Because of biasness in fund allocation. JAG get adequate fund while state judicary don't have fund for construction of toilet for female judges. & Everyone know why this biasness with judiciary. In 2njpc centre was not ready to pay proposed salary & you're expecting good infrastructure. The same situation is with Armed force Tribual. Exchange work & power b/w them than see infrastructure.
Ek hai jisko sarkar se koi matlab hi nhi or dusra hai jo sarkar ko chorti nhi too fir rs. 1 kaha se mile ga.
So its irrelavnt to compare on the basis of infrastructure
dude you're comment sound to be rude with few flaws not at all thanks for your time well I discussed with 2 JAG officer's one is my classmate brother, another is faculty's son, they suggested for PCS-J. Also I met Ex-JAG practicing at DHC his suggestion i found his suggestion best and said you can appear for both. So, I decided for PCS-J but will also appear for JAG, rest about joining will decide later.
Dude, my cousin is currently a JAG officer serving in Lucknow and I can vouch for the veracity of the claims of 2 accommodations for JAG officers - one at the place of posting and one in any other city of choice. Wrt to the free flight tickets, yes ,the JAG officers like other officers commissioned from the NDA or IMA can travel from their place of posting to their place of residence multiple times free of cost. If I am not wrong, the officer is entitled to 8 free tickets and the dependants (wife, children) are provided 4 tickets each. However, this facility exists only when you are posted in Jammu & Kashmir or North East. Out of the quota of 8 tickets for an officer, he has to mandatorily travel 4 times in a chartered flight which is meant only for Armed Forces. I read a comment which expressed surprise at such benefit being accorded to Jag but this is the reality. You may choose to agree or disagree. Putting random emojis to your comment won't hide the truth, instead arm your answer with relevant statements and grammatically correct words.
I am also doubly sure that a Judicial Officer who is posted in North East(Guwahti,Kohima,Dimapur etc) or Kashmir(Srinagar etc) are provided no such facility for their dependents as well as for themselves.
There was another comment with regards to some rulebook which stipulates promotion for judicial officers to ADJ cadre in 8 years. Let me give you a reality check.
Even the UPPCS rules state that the officers of UPPPS(entry level Grade I DSP) and UPPCS ( Entry level grade 1 SDM)will be promoted to IAS within 8 years. You very well know the reality, an entry level DSP gets just two promotions in his lifetime (addl sp and sp). Similarly an entry level uppcs officer who starts off as an sdm becomes dm (subject to age and promotion to IaS cadre) after two and a half decades. Even then, thd department promotion committee of the state govt and the upsc give approvals subject to a certain criteria.
In the same light , the rulebook says that the civil judge should be promoted to ask within x years and dj within y years doesn't really materialse. On paper things do look rosy but in reality is totally different.
Bro, that is different thing, It only given to Married ones. In Military, the married & unmrried given separate accomodation and cannot be interchanged. Even their areas are separate. Married Accommodations are larger than for unmarried ones. So the 2 accomodation given to only married ones (not everyone) on the following grounds -
1. If No married accomodations is available then officers can keep their family at any selected place of India & claim HRA, or
2. A separate family accn is made in peace stations so If they get posted in war or desputed areas than can shift their family here.
So except second condition why any civil officer (include JO) given two accn. No logic in it. As married & unmarried not matter in civil services but it matters in Military job.
While regarding IAF jets are only provided in disputed areas and no where. But if normally provided & 8 free ticket & 4 for depandents, than it must be available on Govt of India website can you provide relevant link for same??? As far I know that LTC facilities are same for all employees even NDA grades in NER & JK regions you can check the Govt. of India's pdf notifications on LTC here (first one)
Regarding ADJ in 8 yr, Where written???? Rulebook provide 10yr (5 yr in junior grade 5 yr in senior grade). It is written 10yr min crietria after that anytime promoted subject to vacancies. Same apply for JAG. My neighbour son join BJS at the age of 33 in 2007, he & most of his batchmates promoted to ADJ grade in 2019-20 while left batchmates (last rankers) got into ADJ grade this year. In UP & MP almost 2008-09 grades are in ADJs. Even delay in promotion they will get next grade salary according to ACP so why to worry??
Rest compring promotion with state pcs first let you know that it is highly complex than PCS(J) as Senior civil judge promotion done by respective HCs but for other pcs to AIS grde no such easy criteria is there as it require respective state approval, than upsc than cabinet than prez means very complex.
I would like to add on to the differences between pcsj and JAG.
The judicial officers are not allowed to maintain contact with the outside world(outside of family) during their entire career as it might influence their verdicts. The rules are even more stringent if you a judge of a special court handling sensitive matters. This wouldn't have mattered 3 decades back when there was no scope for any social outing/clubbing etc. However,in today's highly sociable world, this is a matter of concern.
On the other hand, no such restrictions exist for the JAG officers. They are free to maintain contact with anyone in the outside world(except foreigners).
Who told JAG are allowed to make contact & judges don't??? JAG is a job in military not in civil & military is known for its strictness, discipline, privacy, less interactions with civilians & many more. Even they are not allowed to shift or keep their family anywhere but only at peace station marked by respective defence head under they posted. So both have to maintain privacy but JAG grades. strictly
There is lot of flaws in above comment needed to address -
1. CERTAINTY OF EXAM - first of all 5yr Delay of UPPCS (J) was an exception not common so don't judge certainty on that basis. Y
Second thing agree certainty is there but not in every states. Also this problem has been countered by njpc, in every state judges have now uniform pay, perks & designation so even exams delay in one state an aspirant (rather seating ideally & waiting) can move and appear for another states & get his dream job w/o wasting a year, the only difference would be "change of state" which is not a big issue. But the same cannot be applied for JAG aspirants as if it got delay the aspirant has no other option than waiting or moving ahead by keeping his dream either on hold or leave it. Even CSE aspirants has an option that if anything happen with CSE exam one can move for PCS exam by compromising with IAS /IPS etc. tag. Also judiciary have lateral entry scheme at DJ/HC/SC level which misses in JAG so if age will gone then dream too permanently. And yes don't give lame logic that due to favouritism one appear for multiple states 🤣
2. PERCEPTION OF EXAM - This is absolutely foolish logic that UPSC conducts fair exam and not others. Even recruitment in state group B or C non-gazatted job is conducted through written and viva, but for this prestigious service only by viva?? Even if the interview is rigorous, behind-the-scenes activity is always controversial. That's why one of the biggest importance of the written exam act as hands-on proof about fairness in marking. Due to lack of written exam it's recruitment process always labelled with biasness and nepotism tag like judiciary. This favouritism is not new and is common in military jobs around the world especially in military rule nations. You can clarify by discussion with people have good understanding about JAG or coaching or research. So, it doesn't matter even exam conducted by UPSC or other, only matter the process of recruitment. So even judiciary & JAG both accused of nepotism still PCS (J) recruitment is far transparent than JAG.
3. ABOUT SERVICE - So we all should agree with you that it cannot be compared with AIS or Armed force and avoid SC & Central Govt. ruling & practice respectively??? Baba ji aap kaun se bhale manus ho batne ki kripa karenge. Sorry & cry as much you can but SC order is only acceptable and truth is that (even Central Govt. accepted through various practice that) PCS (J) comparable with AIS grade only in both njpc & not with State appointees. Go & read the curative petition on 2njpc, how they (govt.) cited & accepted grade with IAS. Also uniform perks at par with IAS & higher salary is itself example to it comparable. SC again uphold & reiterated that State judiciary is only comparable with AIS grade & not less.
4. PAY - Armed forces is also governed by 7CPC so every group A grade (even JAG ) starts at Rs.56100 (level 10) and neither high nor low with counterparts IAS/IPS grades. You can read the JAG advt. notification also. While Civil Judge starts at Rs. 77840 which is nearly 22K more than any UPSC grades. Even DA at Centre & State are same i.e.,42%. So how they have high pay ??? New pension concept is currently in BJP ruling or allied states mostly anti bjp states re-introduced OPS.
Yes military allowances are always high because of the nature of job & postings but wait a minute 2 accommodation & IAF Jets are yrr 🤣 first of all JAG officer cannot stay anywhere or take accommodation outside cantonment but in exceptional cases, HRA can be availed on same rate available for counterparts grades. But 2 accommodation are not given to NDA grades how could be given to JAG ?? Yes accom. are fully furnished but with nominal fee (can check on website). And self + family medical treatment/reimbursement given to every Govt. employee.
But IAF Jets or Charted Plans ???? God even the JAG grades don't knows about it. First of all they get concessions called as Travel Concession which is free if travel by Air India's economy class or 40% concession in Indian Railway. It is given once in every block of 2yr. Same given to civil service officers include judges of district judiciary but on block of 4yr. In few states like Haryana, Raj., if LTC or HTC unused the PCS officers get one month salary (basic + DA) which is not available for any central or AIS employees.
Yes i agree the cantonments are clean and greenest part and credit goes to strictness & discipline in them also they have top notch facilities but not every where like in hilly areas of UK/J&K/Sikkim's etc., or non-peace stations and it is mandatorily builted to keep them away with civilians areas for security purpose. And it is just tax free not totally free, buyer have to pay for items even at theatre. Almost in every metro cities govt. Gym/clubs/mess/pools etc. are available and any govt. officer can avail it except military personnel.
5. TRANSFER & POSTING - Yes JO's get posted in far flung or remote areas but still get chance to live with civilians and they can move either with family or alone as per their choice. But same is not extended with JAG service as they can only take their family to places marked as peace stations & not everywhere. Also their initial posting always in far-flung areas or disturbed areas where even a bird get seen is a big deal. So, they nothing have to deal even get posted in metro cities as they have restrictions on movement.
Transfer after every 3yr is mandatory in Judiciary but no such condition for JAG grade & can be transferred anytime anywhere.
About Central Deputation, what is SC Registery posting ?? Also ever read out the notification issued for law post in union govt. where they specifically sought application from JO's ?? Yes except SC Registery no specific post reserved for JO's at any union ministries but it doesn't mean that JO's didn't get central deputations, seeking applications is clear that they are also eligible for central deputation. This is how ex-DJS was deputed as union law secretary. Go & check website of MP/UP/Delhi/Raj/Haryana HC's deputation tab you will get idea how many are on central deputation.
6. PROMOTION - Saying Civil Judge career end at ADJ /DJ grade, than who get promoted to HC ?? Only Direct ADJs ?? Also saying that DJs are of generally 55+ year age 🤣 is anywhere fixed that DJ should be min 55 yr ?? I only know that promotion done on basis of exp. not on age. (On paper) Min. 10 yr exp. rule is mention for promotion in ADJ cadre & once 10yr completed one may be promoted anytime according to vacancy & seniority. In bigger states like UP/MP/Raj/Bihar etc., one get into ADJ cadre within 11 to 14 yr of services and 13 to 16 yr in smaller states like Goa/Delhi etc. So, if one become Civil Judge even at 30 & promoted to ADJ at 46 (if taking 16yr service) still have 14yr in hand and if eligible will be promoted to next which HC judge. Almost in every states (even in DJS) the deserved one JO's of 2005-08 batch has already been promoted to DJ cadre and serving as ADJ or D&SJ while most of 2001-04 batch are in HCs. Anyone can verify from the website of High Court.
Again saying that if ADJs not promoted will get lesser than DJ ?? First understand that becoming ADJ to DJ is not promotion & just change of responsibilities as both belong to same cadre. In any dept. promotion done b/w cadre not b/w posts. Even STS gradee can be ADJ & entry gradee can be D&SJ. So if one cannot become D&SJ, not a big deal as still salary will increase every 5yr automatically. As there is concept of ACP available to all Judicial officers where they get next grade salary if delay in promotion and same is available to AIS & Central Service grades with name NFS but unlike judiciary they can avail only from level 14 (in IPS & Military from level 13A).
Are Bhai judges jis state government ke guesthouses me rehte hai unki haalat bhot kharab hoti hai uski baat hi mat kr..Mai khud reh Chuka hu unme..... Defence ke guesthouses ka standard upar hai...itna hi kahunga
Phli bat too Judge ka abhi kahi v specific guest house nhi hai. Abhi sare judges/ias/ips ko Govt. Guest house (Circuit house) milta hai jisme Judge se lekar CM/PM/Prez/SC judges sab reh skte hai yaha taki Military personnels bhi. Kuch places pr HC Judge & Delhi mai SC judges ke liye specifically banya gaya kyoki bahut baar Circuit house khali nhi rhta isliye. Too circuit house jaha bhi hoga sab maintained hi rehga bhale hi wo defense ka ho ya kisi or ka.
Civil judges are not authorised any 5 star hotel stay when they are on temporary duty. They have to mandatorily stay in Sakari guest house which. JAG officers have an option to stay in 5 star hotels like TAJ, Lalit( hotels which have signed a MOU with the Defence Ministry. They offer rooms at a very reasonable price. Rates may be as low as 40 percent of the actual charge- rate that is charged from the general public. You can easily find a list of such hotels on the defence ministry or navy or army website. Google and check for yourself
Arre bhai bhai Bhai...5 star ya 4 star hotels me Temporary Duty(TD) me stay gaya bhaad me. You should only talk about the salary that is credited to one's bank account at the end of the month, perks and pension.
On all these counts the civil judges fall short. After the One Rank One Pension scheme(OROP), the pension of judges is very less as compared to defence officers. Even if you do not count the benefits of OROP, the Old pension scheme (OPS) is enough to beat the pension of any civil judge( Post 2004 recruited judges) by a huge margin. I am not discussing the perks as they have already been discussed before.
I am a Nalsar grad and my father retired as as district judge in one of the Hindi speaking states last year. He specifically told me not to appear for state judicial services exam as the perks are not equivalent to other central services like JAG etc. The pay is also not high enough to motivate someone to try one's luck in state judicial examinations. The pay and pension gap between the Judge Advocate General Department and the state judiciary has exponentially increased in the former's favour after the One Rank One pension scheme. Even if we discount the benefits of the OROP, the judicial officers' pay is substantially less in comparison to the Armed Forces. I am well qualified to talk about the armed forces as two of my uncles are senior officers in the Indian Navy. Both my uncle's were of the opinion that the pay/pension, facilities, acco etc are much better in the jag than the state judiciary. However, if you are keen to join state judiciary, you may do so but stop this d**k measuring contest vis-a-vis other government services.
After reading 4-5 comment (prior to this) in line seems posted by same guy who is critising & supporting his own comment. Now he is saying that came from nalsar & his dad is judge (& that district judge) & uncle is in Indian Navy. I bet sure ias/ips also there in his family. LI par hwa par teer maar do kisi ko kya hi pata chalega 🤣🤣
I met an ex-JAG whose daughter was appearing for upcj mains (son failed in prelims). The candidate said that her father motivated them to go for state judicial service rather than for JAG while also met 3 nalsar alumnus.
"Pay is not high to motivate someone to try luck for state judicial service" bhai ka statement mtlb 1Lakh+/month (w/o perks) salary bahut kam hai wo bhi sarkari naukari mai??? & bro is saying his father was district judge. Now i totally agree thatt your all statements are 100k% correct, no need to give any proof to anyone. Bro, ye wla sasta nasha ka address dena plz.
The referred news article comparing salary based on 6 CPC matrix & was last update on Nov. 2015 while currently 7 CPC applied (effective from 2016 to both), means 8yr old article based on old pay. Can you tell me how it is relevent for current discussion?? & btw does article include judges or any like term? If no, than how it is relevent here? After 6 month even the provisional graduation degree or 12th marksheet have no value & you're being a lawyer referring 8 yr old newsarticle based on old pay??? Also civil judges r getting salary according to 2njpc while allowances accr. to 1njpc as the allowa. matter is pending before sc while JAG grades are getting salary+allowance according to 7cpc. So how you compared their allowances???? R u seriously from a law field???
Damm god, utha le re deva ye halat hai law field ka.
Forget about pension & other discussion first can you provide the gross salary detail of Lt. & Civil Judge belong to level 10 grade only??
The infrastructure and the resources in most states in which judicial officers work is pathetic to say the least. No wonder there is a shortage of roughly 45 percent of HC judges. The infrastructure of the armed forces is second to none. By infrastructure I mean the offices, govt bungalows/quarters. The shortage in the officer cadre of armed forces is 15pc, even less than the All India Services(22 pc)
well it's true, pay difference between a colonel and brigadier is less than 10k, and btw col. is just one rank junior than brigadier. this is how it is in the army, even for a lt gen. pay difference is not HUGE
Civil judge bano bhai bahut kami judge ki india mai
JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL (JAG)
1. SELECTION: All India level exam, seats are very limited (last year 6 for male & 3 for women). Only candidates age between 21 to 27yr age are eligible & no concept of reservation. Initially everyone granted SSC max. for 14yr on expiry (if not fit & eligible) released from the service. But if fit & eligible than only Permanent Commission granted (before expiry b/w 10 to 14yr). So not only cracking exam is tough but continuing in service is more tough. Also there is no scheme of lateral entry.
2. JURISDICTION : It only deals with criminal matters related within the Military provided under Army/Navy/Airforce Act. Any causality to civilians or if rape/murder/CH done within armed forces than only civilian (district) courts can deals. So the work scope is very much limited.
3. POWER : Simple punishment to Death penalty can be offered. Trial court presided by min. 5 or max. 9 member in which judgement by majority followed based on jury advised.
4. PROMOTION SCOPE : Join at Lt. and max. can be promoted upto Major General (min. 27yr of service required). Majority get retired at Lt. Colonel or Colonel rank and only best may make for Brigadier & Major General.
5. PAY & ALLOWANCES : Starting salary Rs. 56100 & max. 1.44L (Major General). Allowances paid among Army/Navy/Airforce grades are much higher than any govt. services. If exclude DA (currently 42%), only cash allowances makes around Rs.94k to 1.2L/M.
6. FACILITIES : Mostly you'll be allotted well semi furnished type 5 bungalows (sometime flat accommodation also) from starting. From Brigadier rank fully furnished type 6 bungalows allotted. Independent Car facilities or TA in lieu given from starting.
7. WORK CULUTRE : They also have mixed culture i.e., challenging but interesting. It is a judicial service so free from any political or other pressures and is job in military so definitely no room for laziness or pending works. All rules/ethics/conducts strictly monitored or followed and no mercy on failing or breaching.
8. SECURITY & TRANSFER : Regarding this there is no issue like PCS (J), an adequate number of security given at every level & everywhere. The transfers done anywhere but within armed forces jurisd. include HQs or in central ministries or other places as central govt. deems fit.
STATE JUDICIAL SERVICE [PCS (J)]
1. SELECTION : State level exam, seats are high, candidate b/w 21 to 35yr age can appear & age relaxation + few seats for reserved candidates. No SSC or PC rule applied & posted for fixed age i.e., 60 for district, 62 for HC & 65 for SC. Lateral Entry scheme are there at DJ, HC & SC level. Thus it is Easier than JAG to crack.
2. WORK SCOPE : They have wider areas to deal from criminal, civil to quasi-judicial matters. Even they can initiate proceeding against military personnel's even if civilians not involved on grounds time to time notify by Central Govt. They deals with matters pertains to both State & Central Law in India. Even they can deal any other matters if not expressly or impliedly barred by any Act/notification.
3. POWER : The actual court power is here. Unlike JAG, every JO's have independent court & vested with independent power. No jury or majority rule apply (except in HC/SC). Even death sentence can be passed by single judge (subject to approval of HC). District Court judges have much power than counterpart JAG Grades.
4. PROMOTION SCOPE : joining at Civil Judge (Jr. Divi.) for lower judiciary & ADJ for Higher Judiciary and max. can be promoted upto the post of Chief Justice of India (last post of Indian Judiciary). For HC 1/3rd seats reserved for district judiciary. promotion is easier than JAG as one can reach to the highest post of district judiciary within 15 to 20yr of service (in ADJ within 11 to 16yr).
5. PAY & ALLOWANCES : Civil Judge starting Rs.77840 & ADJ starting Rs. 1.45L/m. So min. 78K & max. 2.8L (CJI). Allowances are nearly at par with All India Service grades but very less than JAG officers. Round figure of cash allowances ranges between Rs.12K to 30K for Civil Judges while Rs. 25K to 70K for DJ ranks.
6. FACILITIES : Type 5 semi furnished flat accommodation provided to every judges of district judiciary except PDJs or Special Judges (in DJ ranks) or CJMs (who get type 6 furnished bungalows). Regarding car except PDJ/ADJ-1/CJMs/Special Judges (in DJ ranks) all are provided either pool car or fuel allowances.
7. WORK CULTURE : Mixed culture, free from all type of pressures or interference. Strictness but less than JAG.
8. SECURITY & TRANSFER : At starting no security provided except PDJs/CJMs/ADJs/ SDJMs/JM (holding special criminal courts) however in many states armed-home guard facilities deployed at judicial accommodations. As per SC order every district court judges shall be transferred on completing 3yr at one place. Transfers mainly within states but deputation varies as may be posted in central ministries or sometime in military departments too.
Conclusion : Except 1-2 factors PCS (J) seems to have better opportunities than JAG. Well both have merit and demerit. it is upon candidates to decide keeping various factors in mind. Whoever want to join & serve for Army/Navy/Airforce but non combat department & deals with legal matters, JAG is for them but if have sole dream to work for pure justice delivery system and eager to be part of judicial system of India then PCS (J) is best option.
HOPE THIS COMPARISON MAY HELP CONSUFED ONES
1. Exam:
JAG-There is no written exam for entry into the JAG branch of Army and Navy(no direct recruitment in IAF, offrs absored from the regular cadre). Vacancies are mostly in single digit(6-7 in Army & 2-3 in Navy) .All law graduates attaining a stipulated %age during their graduation can appear for the rigorous Services Selection Board(SSB) which is a five day interview process.
PCSJ-On the other hand, there is a state judicial services exam conducted by the respective state judicial services commn. In some states, the HC also conducts the recruitment process.
2. Certainity of the exam
Since the entry into the JAG is conducted by the SSB under the purview of the UPSC, there is a certainity (Notifications come out every year) of the recruitment taking place every year. No undue delay in notification/release of. result etc
The PCSJ exam is highly certain and notification based, for instance the UPPCSJ took place after a gap of five years which adds to the anxiety of the candidates and is highly unfair to say the least. Coming to the results, there is no calender which is followed. Everything takes its own sweet time. There are lots of instances of favouritism in these state level exams. Thus, the candidate is forced to appear for multiple state judiciary exams.
3. Perception of the exam
Recruitment into the Armed Forces(Army, Navy, IAF) is controlled by the UPSC which reflects that the entire process of recruitment is fair and transparent, like all other UPSC exams.
Since the State PSCs are regularly marred by complaints of irregularity, favouritism and corruption, this generally gives an impression that it is a typical state level exam.
4. Perception of the service:
The State PCSJ appointed cannot be compared with the Armed forces or the Civil Servants recruited by the UPSC. At best, they can be compared to any officer selected through the state administrative services, state police services etc.
5. Pay and allowances
The pay and allowances of the Armed Forces are the highest amongst any govt service in the country, even higher than the All India Services(IAS,IPS, IFS). It is noteworthy to note that the only defences officers are paid pension unlike other services like Judiciary which have reverted to the New Pension Scheme. (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/defence-personnel-get-higher-pay-than-civilian-counterparts/articleshow/49886547.cms).
I haven't come to the allowances part yet. The JAG offrs are paid higher than the regular offrs due to the Non Practising Allowance(NPA) which is added to their regular salary. On top of that, JAG offrs are provided fully furnished( accommodations to their place of posting(Unlike judicial offrs who are given a meagre allowance for furniture, tech etc once in 3-4 yrs). You don't have to spend a single penny on your accommodation after shifting to a new town. In field areas JAG offrs are entitled to keep 2 accommodations(in any city) They can also avail free flight tickets for themselves, spouse and children ( Certain stipulated number of tickets). Until recently, the offrs could easily travel via IAF jets while coming home on leave, the rule has now been changed which allows the offrs to travel on chartered Flights(Similar to regular flight, these flights are run by airlines specifically for Armed Forces without any charge, however family members cannot travel). Air India also provides 50 % concession to defence personnel and their families(Rebate in other airlines is a maximum of 25pc).
Unlike the judicial services. the children of the defence offrs can avail all benefits( treatment in Military Hospitals, access to CSD) until they are 25 years of age(21 in case of other govt services).
The JAG officers are provided accommodation in military cantonments which is generally the cleanest and greenest part of any town. However small the town, it will have all top notch facilities ranging from Golf Courses, Race Course, Clubs, Swimming Pools sports club, tax-free booze to theatres( PS- free of cost). On the contrary, a State judicial services offices is provided nothing more than an accommodation(that too in a crowded area in the middle of the town) if he is posted(mostly) in a Tier 3 city/ rural area.
6. Training and Posting
The initial training of JAG offrs takes place in Officers Training Academy, Chennai(Naval Academy, Kerala) for Navy JAg offrs) After commissioning the training is done in Indian Military Institute, Delhi, technically all big metropolitan cities. As far as posting is concerned, JAG offrs of the army are not posted to far flung and remote areas like the judicial offrs( Civil Judge Junior Division of Balasore or Jalgaon). They are mostly(90 pc of their service) posted in Command/Corps Headquarters( All capital cities or top 2-3 cities of a state). The posting scene is even better in the Navy where JAG offrs hardly get posted to any city other than Mumbai, Kochi, Vizag, Calcutta etc.
Another fact which needs to be taken in into consideration is that the transfer of judical offrs takes place only in a particular state(Eg Rajasthan), which further reduces the chances of staying in a big city. You will not get posted to Jaipur more than once or twice in your career.Since it is a state service, there is no concept of central deputation(Delhi posting).
JAG offrs travel through the length and breadth of the country on postings and also get an opportunity to get posted in Delhi.
7. Promotion:
A judicial offr would start off as a civil judge(Jr divsion) and can at most rise to an ADJ/DJ( Fag end of career). Someone commented that a civil judge could be promoted to DJ within 15 yrs, I doubt its veracity as a DJ is generally a person who is 55 + yrs of age. A jag offr starts off as a Lieutenant and could rise to the rank of a Major General(JAG of Indian Army). Again, someone commented that only a few rise to the rank of a Maj Gen. Agreed, but in the Armed forces even if you dont get promoted, your pay scale is equated to the higher ranks, unlike the judiciary where the pay scales are not equated. So an ADJ will continue to draw lesser salary than a DJ even if he has missed the promotion. On the contrary, a Colonel/Brigadier's pay is equated to a a major General/Lt Gen even if he doesn't make the cut.
PCS (J) be like Forget password - Jab tak life hai dream reset karte raho
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/defence-personnel-get-higher-pay-than-civilian-counterparts/articleshow/49886547.cms
It's good that you've decided your path but these all are competative + age fixed exams so, reling on one & ignoring other opp. is not an identity of smart law candiate. Every year a lot of law graduates appear for all exams which they are eligible even though they've decided their path. So i can also suggest you to appear for other exams too as competitions are high now.
Regarding pay/promotion/merit/demerit etc is a layer part of discussion.
Thnks
1. Myth 1: Not everyone gets a Permanent Commission (PC)
99.9% of the JAG officers are accorded permanent commission. There is no reason to not provide PC unless the officer gets involved in corruption, moral turpitude and certain heinous offences under the Army Act.
Myth 2: Lots of unnecessary travel
A person posted in Delhi would never be sent to the other end of the country like Northeast. That's precisely the reason why the IA is divided into geographical and regional commands. A JAG officers who is posted as an Assistant JAGs(Lt or Captain) of a formation headquartered in Dimapur could be called for a case in Imphal if the situation demands but you do not have to pay for air travel and stay. Mostly, he has to deal with the army cases of that jurisdiction in the respective high court.
Also only those are considered for PC who before expiry of 10yr of SSC period opt for PC, if not opted than max. he can served for 14yr, afterthat released.So not 99.9% but max. 70-80% JAG make for PC rest either failed or didn't opt.
Let me bring out the inconsistencies in your statements.
Statement 1: Easier for JAG officers to get PC than NDA grades:
Even a ten year year old school going kid who has a superficial knowledge of the forces would know that Officers who are ex-NDA(NDA grades in your lingo) are automatically given permanent commission. They do not have to apply for PC. Thus ,it is not fair to compare them with the JAG officers on this parameter.
Secondly, how did you arrive at the conclusion that only 70 percent of officers who opt for PC are finally awarded the same. 2011 le census me likha tha kya?? Seems that you are a civilian and have a very inadequate knowledge of the armed forces. Dhang se inputs leke aa...half baked knowledge ka koi fayda nhi hai.
Now coming to your lame objections
1. how getting PC in NDA than JAG is easy, read below ( i know you don't know about this) -
P𝙲 at 𝙽𝙳𝙰 𝚟. 𝙹𝙰𝙶 - Nda grades have to successfully complete (3yr course & physical training + one year regrious training (6 month more for airforce) at respective department) + individual performance report than pc given. Visit the link
https://164.100.158.23/types-of-commission.htm
Completeing these successfully is not an easy task & many left at middle, go & ask anyone who have atleast knowledge about defence or may read this article -
https://www.ssbcrack.com/2019/10/why-do-so-many-nda-cadets-leave-training.html#:~:text=Other%20key%20reasons%20for%20such,same%20as%20they%20had%20envisioned.
Whereas no such falna dhimaka criterias needed for SSC grades & it given mere on the basis of ACR report + vacancy (only who opted).
https://www.mod.gov.in/faqs/q-14-what-are-rules-concerning-permanent-commission-ssc-officers
2. How 70% result arrived - Simple & dumb logical answer would be that how you arrived at 99.9% but thank god my knowledge is not like your. My analysis based on information shared by many military candidates, coaching faculties & researches. For example read this article you'll get some idea.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindubusinessline.com/blink/know/gender-barriers-in-the-road-to-permanent-commission-for-women-in-the-armed-forces/article33942023.ece/amp/
So i hope you got fully baked inputs & clarification that it is not your dad's firm where promotion done automatically. PC is a type of promotion for ssc grades and even in pvt. jobs no where in world promotion done automatically. Even a ten year year old school going kid who has a superficial knowledge would found flaws in statements better than you.
By your statement, you mean to say that corrupt civil judges can sail smoothly till 60 years of age if the same charges are levelled against him. ▮▮▮
Tum bhai maaf karo or ja kar pogo hi dekho, JAG/Civil Judge choro tm se advocacy bhi bahut muskil lag rhi. Still after sharing the authentic data's, repeating same lame & self-baked arguments again & again.
My point of concern here is that on that basis should I give career advice to the confused candidate?? The way everyone is comparing b/w them is like that both are products & all commentators are seller who are duty bound to sale. On number of occasions, many legends from Defences & Judiciary said that "These are not job but responsibilites & if you want mere a job than don't join them"
However, you missed the guy's point completely. Did he, by any chance, compare the salary of JAG Officers in non- peace areas with the salaries of Judicial officers?
He is merely saying that even if you compare the salary/perks of JAG officers in peace areas with the salaries of judges posted in similar areas, that would turn out to be much higher. Perhaps, you should read the TOI article for your reference which doesn't even make a mention of non-peace areas/disputed areas while making a comparison of sorts between the defence and All India Services.
Also you are saying to compare with peace station candidates OK. I am sharing you the OFFICIAL pdf link where JAG / other military officers perks & allowances given
(https://utilities.cept.gov.in/dop/pdf/fileuploads/ECE_APS_5631.pdf)
Also sharing the JAG official job advertisnment
(https://joinindianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/Portal/NotificationPDF/NOTIFICATION_FOR_JAG_ENTRY_SCHEME_31__OCT_2023_.pdf)
According to it unform salary & allowances to JAG officers (taking level 10) -
Basic : Rs. 56,100
DA : Rs. 23,562 (42% currently)
MSP : Rs. 15,500
Ration : Rs. 2936 (only paid in peace area)
Dress Allowance : Rs. 1667
Gross (monthly) - Rs. 99,765
Note :
1. These are common emoluments (except ration) paid to all irrespective of posting either in peace or non-peace station.
2. Reason for higher than counterpart ias/ips the msp, dress & ration allwn not paid to AIS grdes.
2. Source link already shared
Now CIVIL JUDGES at same level (taking only uniform) (Source NJPC*)
Basic : Rs. 77,840
DA : Rs. 32,693 (42% in all state)
Medical : Rs. 1K (minimum)
Robe Allowance : Rs. 1K (minimum)
Sumptuary allowances : Rs. 1,500
Gross (monthly) : Rs. 1.14L
Note :
1. For salary have taken 2njpc & allowances 1njpc (because current njpc allowances are pending)
2. There are other uniform cash allowances too but not taken because it was enough for compare.
P.S.:
1. Readout again the TOI link, reason has been given why perks were above than AIS grade.
Thanks
WELL now he has disappeared but he will come again with TRUST ME BRO like sources🤣
Ek hai jisko sarkar se koi matlab hi nhi or dusra hai jo sarkar ko chorti nhi too fir rs. 1 kaha se mile ga.
So its irrelavnt to compare on the basis of infrastructure
dude you're comment sound to be rude with few flaws not at all thanks for your time well I discussed with 2 JAG officer's one is my classmate brother, another is faculty's son, they suggested for PCS-J. Also I met Ex-JAG practicing at DHC his suggestion i found his suggestion best and said you can appear for both. So, I decided for PCS-J but will also appear for JAG, rest about joining will decide later.
I am also doubly sure that a Judicial Officer who is posted in North East(Guwahti,Kohima,Dimapur etc) or Kashmir(Srinagar etc) are provided no such facility for their dependents as well as for themselves.
There was another comment with regards to some rulebook which stipulates promotion for judicial officers to ADJ cadre in 8 years. Let me give you a reality check.
Even the UPPCS rules state that the officers of UPPPS(entry level Grade I DSP) and UPPCS ( Entry level grade 1 SDM)will be promoted to IAS within 8 years. You very well know the reality, an entry level DSP gets just two promotions in his lifetime (addl sp and sp). Similarly an entry level uppcs officer who starts off as an sdm becomes dm (subject to age and promotion to IaS cadre) after two and a half decades. Even then, thd department promotion committee of the state govt and the upsc give approvals subject to a certain criteria.
In the same light , the rulebook says that the civil judge should be promoted to ask within x years and dj within y years doesn't really materialse. On paper things do look rosy but in reality is totally different.
1. If No married accomodations is available then officers can keep their family at any selected place of India & claim HRA, or
2. A separate family accn is made in peace stations so If they get posted in war or desputed areas than can shift their family here.
So except second condition why any civil officer (include JO) given two accn. No logic in it. As married & unmarried not matter in civil services but it matters in Military job.
While regarding IAF jets are only provided in disputed areas and no where. But if normally provided & 8 free ticket & 4 for depandents, than it must be available on Govt of India website can you provide relevant link for same??? As far I know that LTC facilities are same for all employees even NDA grades in NER & JK regions you can check the Govt. of India's pdf notifications on LTC here (first one)
"https://www.google.com/search?q=ltc+for+central+government+employees+in+NER+%26+Jk&client=ms-android-samsung&ei=72yBZM6fHMTn4-EPv7atqAo&oq=ltc+for+central+government+employees+in+NER+%26+Jk&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBQghEKABOgoIABBHENYEELADOgIIKToFCCkQgAQ6BwgpEKABEAo6EAguEAMQjwEQ6gIQjAMQ5QI6EAgAEAMQjwEQ6gIQjAMQ5QJKBAhBGABQhylYhylgzjFoA3AAeACAAeACiAG5BZIBAzMtMpgBAKABAaABArABHMABAcgBCA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp"
Regarding ADJ in 8 yr, Where written???? Rulebook provide 10yr (5 yr in junior grade 5 yr in senior grade). It is written 10yr min crietria after that anytime promoted subject to vacancies. Same apply for JAG. My neighbour son join BJS at the age of 33 in 2007, he & most of his batchmates promoted to ADJ grade in 2019-20 while left batchmates (last rankers) got into ADJ grade this year. In UP & MP almost 2008-09 grades are in ADJs. Even delay in promotion they will get next grade salary according to ACP so why to worry??
Rest compring promotion with state pcs first let you know that it is highly complex than PCS(J) as Senior civil judge promotion done by respective HCs but for other pcs to AIS grde no such easy criteria is there as it require respective state approval, than upsc than cabinet than prez means very complex.
The judicial officers are not allowed to maintain contact with the outside world(outside of family) during their entire career as it might influence their verdicts. The rules are even more stringent if you a judge of a special court handling sensitive matters. This wouldn't have mattered 3 decades back when there was no scope for any social outing/clubbing etc. However,in today's highly sociable world, this is a matter of concern.
On the other hand, no such restrictions exist for the JAG officers. They are free to maintain contact with anyone in the outside world(except foreigners).
1. CERTAINTY OF EXAM - first of all 5yr Delay of UPPCS (J) was an exception not common so don't judge certainty on that basis. Y
Second thing agree certainty is there but not in every states. Also this problem has been countered by njpc, in every state judges have now uniform pay, perks & designation so even exams delay in one state an aspirant (rather seating ideally & waiting) can move and appear for another states & get his dream job w/o wasting a year, the only difference would be "change of state" which is not a big issue. But the same cannot be applied for JAG aspirants as if it got delay the aspirant has no other option than waiting or moving ahead by keeping his dream either on hold or leave it. Even CSE aspirants has an option that if anything happen with CSE exam one can move for PCS exam by compromising with IAS /IPS etc. tag. Also judiciary have lateral entry scheme at DJ/HC/SC level which misses in JAG so if age will gone then dream too permanently. And yes don't give lame logic that due to favouritism one appear for multiple states 🤣
2. PERCEPTION OF EXAM - This is absolutely foolish logic that UPSC conducts fair exam and not others. Even recruitment in state group B or C non-gazatted job is conducted through written and viva, but for this prestigious service only by viva?? Even if the interview is rigorous, behind-the-scenes activity is always controversial. That's why one of the biggest importance of the written exam act as hands-on proof about fairness in marking. Due to lack of written exam it's recruitment process always labelled with biasness and nepotism tag like judiciary. This favouritism is not new and is common in military jobs around the world especially in military rule nations. You can clarify by discussion with people have good understanding about JAG or coaching or research. So, it doesn't matter even exam conducted by UPSC or other, only matter the process of recruitment. So even judiciary & JAG both accused of nepotism still PCS (J) recruitment is far transparent than JAG.
3. ABOUT SERVICE - So we all should agree with you that it cannot be compared with AIS or Armed force and avoid SC & Central Govt. ruling & practice respectively??? Baba ji aap kaun se bhale manus ho batne ki kripa karenge. Sorry & cry as much you can but SC order is only acceptable and truth is that (even Central Govt. accepted through various practice that) PCS (J) comparable with AIS grade only in both njpc & not with State appointees. Go & read the curative petition on 2njpc, how they (govt.) cited & accepted grade with IAS. Also uniform perks at par with IAS & higher salary is itself example to it comparable. SC again uphold & reiterated that State judiciary is only comparable with AIS grade & not less.
4. PAY - Armed forces is also governed by 7CPC so every group A grade (even JAG ) starts at Rs.56100 (level 10) and neither high nor low with counterparts IAS/IPS grades. You can read the JAG advt. notification also. While Civil Judge starts at Rs. 77840 which is nearly 22K more than any UPSC grades. Even DA at Centre & State are same i.e.,42%. So how they have high pay ??? New pension concept is currently in BJP ruling or allied states mostly anti bjp states re-introduced OPS.
Yes military allowances are always high because of the nature of job & postings but wait a minute 2 accommodation & IAF Jets are yrr 🤣 first of all JAG officer cannot stay anywhere or take accommodation outside cantonment but in exceptional cases, HRA can be availed on same rate available for counterparts grades. But 2 accommodation are not given to NDA grades how could be given to JAG ?? Yes accom. are fully furnished but with nominal fee (can check on website). And self + family medical treatment/reimbursement given to every Govt. employee.
But IAF Jets or Charted Plans ???? God even the JAG grades don't knows about it. First of all they get concessions called as Travel Concession which is free if travel by Air India's economy class or 40% concession in Indian Railway. It is given once in every block of 2yr. Same given to civil service officers include judges of district judiciary but on block of 4yr. In few states like Haryana, Raj., if LTC or HTC unused the PCS officers get one month salary (basic + DA) which is not available for any central or AIS employees.
Yes i agree the cantonments are clean and greenest part and credit goes to strictness & discipline in them also they have top notch facilities but not every where like in hilly areas of UK/J&K/Sikkim's etc., or non-peace stations and it is mandatorily builted to keep them away with civilians areas for security purpose. And it is just tax free not totally free, buyer have to pay for items even at theatre. Almost in every metro cities govt. Gym/clubs/mess/pools etc. are available and any govt. officer can avail it except military personnel.
5. TRANSFER & POSTING - Yes JO's get posted in far flung or remote areas but still get chance to live with civilians and they can move either with family or alone as per their choice. But same is not extended with JAG service as they can only take their family to places marked as peace stations & not everywhere. Also their initial posting always in far-flung areas or disturbed areas where even a bird get seen is a big deal. So, they nothing have to deal even get posted in metro cities as they have restrictions on movement.
Transfer after every 3yr is mandatory in Judiciary but no such condition for JAG grade & can be transferred anytime anywhere.
About Central Deputation, what is SC Registery posting ?? Also ever read out the notification issued for law post in union govt. where they specifically sought application from JO's ?? Yes except SC Registery no specific post reserved for JO's at any union ministries but it doesn't mean that JO's didn't get central deputations, seeking applications is clear that they are also eligible for central deputation. This is how ex-DJS was deputed as union law secretary. Go & check website of MP/UP/Delhi/Raj/Haryana HC's deputation tab you will get idea how many are on central deputation.
6. PROMOTION - Saying Civil Judge career end at ADJ /DJ grade, than who get promoted to HC ?? Only Direct ADJs ?? Also saying that DJs are of generally 55+ year age 🤣 is anywhere fixed that DJ should be min 55 yr ?? I only know that promotion done on basis of exp. not on age. (On paper) Min. 10 yr exp. rule is mention for promotion in ADJ cadre & once 10yr completed one may be promoted anytime according to vacancy & seniority. In bigger states like UP/MP/Raj/Bihar etc., one get into ADJ cadre within 11 to 14 yr of services and 13 to 16 yr in smaller states like Goa/Delhi etc. So, if one become Civil Judge even at 30 & promoted to ADJ at 46 (if taking 16yr service) still have 14yr in hand and if eligible will be promoted to next which HC judge. Almost in every states (even in DJS) the deserved one JO's of 2005-08 batch has already been promoted to DJ cadre and serving as ADJ or D&SJ while most of 2001-04 batch are in HCs. Anyone can verify from the website of High Court.
Again saying that if ADJs not promoted will get lesser than DJ ?? First understand that becoming ADJ to DJ is not promotion & just change of responsibilities as both belong to same cadre. In any dept. promotion done b/w cadre not b/w posts. Even STS gradee can be ADJ & entry gradee can be D&SJ. So if one cannot become D&SJ, not a big deal as still salary will increase every 5yr automatically. As there is concept of ACP available to all Judicial officers where they get next grade salary if delay in promotion and same is available to AIS & Central Service grades with name NFS but unlike judiciary they can avail only from level 14 (in IPS & Military from level 13A).
PS : plse ignore any grammatical error if have
https://m.timesofindia.com/india/defence-personnel-get-higher-pay-than-civilian-counterparts/articleshow/49886547.cms
On all these counts the civil judges fall short. After the One Rank One Pension scheme(OROP), the pension of judges is very less as compared to defence officers. Even if you do not count the benefits of OROP, the Old pension scheme (OPS) is enough to beat the pension of any civil judge( Post 2004 recruited judges) by a huge margin. I am not discussing the perks as they have already been discussed before.
I met an ex-JAG whose daughter was appearing for upcj mains (son failed in prelims). The candidate said that her father motivated them to go for state judicial service rather than for JAG while also met 3 nalsar alumnus.
Damm god, utha le re deva ye halat hai law field ka.
Forget about pension & other discussion first can you provide the gross salary detail of Lt. & Civil Judge belong to level 10 grade only??
Likh do kuch bhi w/o research