Makes a lot of sense, thank you. But, I got this T1 through a comp not on the basis of my cv. Also, its a firm thats known for one internship policy for gc teams. I need to get a decently paying job, thats my priority. Won’t I be able to raw dog a cap markets team (with a little prep)?

The pay from what I have heard is supposed to be 12+2 LPA (could be more or less). A lot of the associates are from tier 1 and other NLUs. The corporate team works out of gurugram along with the TMT team (not a core tmt practice from what I can tell).

The work culture was not great in my opinion; the firm has working Saturdays which are WfH, the senior associates can be rude or dismissive, and the HR is like a school teacher. It is not the worst you will see, but it is certainly not good.

Bro. Board scores are no metric of your capabilities as a lawyer. A series of bad decisions led me to choose Science as a subject post my 10th, leading to me getting compartmental in Physics in 12th boards. However, I worked hard for CLAT and managed a decent rank which got me a mid tier NLU. Right now I work as PA in a known tier 2 law firm. Ofcourse I felt that getting compartmental in 12th was end of the world for me, but in hindsight, I was being too harsh on myself. Life has its ebbs and flows. Just put in your work; life will reward you. All the best.

I have scored 98% in my boards. Have a T2 nlu still struggling for job. Boards marks don't even matter a bit. Please don't waste even an iota of your mental energy on shitty things like board marks. They're so useless, I've seen it. Your practical skills is all that matter. But once you get to law school your marks would matter. Don't be anxious, it takes away your ability to give your best. Chill out. All the best.

This. I know the struggles sound harsh esp when your peers are living their life but to build something is what men are wired for. Imagine being 50ish and seeing things youve made or created from ground up. Delayed gratification is as close to divinity as what men get. (Even women, don't go on the term men but the point beyond it)

I am currently in my 4th year and will be starting my 5th year in June from a private university. It is well known; however, we do not have great placements. Please tell me a roadmap of what to do and how to plan further. I am from Delhi NCR but looking to relocate to Bengaluru pls tell me what all possible options i have.

I attended a session on use of AI tech in the legal field today. The host taught us how and what type of prompts to write in order to make best use of AI and towards the end touched upon how it is a rising field and right now is the best chance to get into it. The session gave me food for thought and now I wonder how to like break into this area..? It sounds intriguing to me as I already rely on chat gpt and perplexity a lot for research. But how does one get internships with legal tech startups.. what skills or knowledge is required?

Please forward the trailing email tomorrow to contact@lexconsult.co.in, and you’ll hear back from us.

@OP Pay for an Associate at Lex Consult starts at 85k per month (bonus additional).

What about "The London School of Economics and Political Science"? Also a "university" (for all practical purposes) but an institution which, for practical short-hand/concise communication, uses the term "the school"? I don't see you (or anybody else who levels this criticism against NLSIU) criticizing them? Double standards much? :)

I am just a guy who heard it from some other guy. And I might be partially right on this.
So here it goes. Lawyers in 10 years do not make them partners at the end of the decade if they are not ready for it. The promotions from associate to senior associate and so on are performance-based at times. Dont know if this happens on every firm.
Second those principal associates/managing associates/counsel/partner designate are not made partners until and unless they are capable of it. Mostly firms train these new soon-going-to-be-partners.

Some are made to resign because they are not able to generate revenue for the firm. [Recent Dentons to Burgeon Law]
Some leave to join small firms to have a more relaxed work-life balance.

Others leave to start their own practice.

this is too less. if that is what one is earning at the top firms after 10-15 years of passing out, litigation seems far far better. Yes 10-15 PQE you won't be earning as much as these people, but surely atleast half if not 75%. And 20 PQE and thereafter in litigation, you'd be outearning these partners by far even including profits

Get a some coping mechanism techniques from a mental health professional if you can afford it and implement them in your professional sphere. Don’t take everything so seriously. Everyone makes mistakes. But if it’s debilitating your existence to such an extent then seek some help and rework your thought process.

The interviews have been completed. A little birdie from Level 2 OAB tells me that a “branded” prof has been given an offer letter just a few moons back. Though who knows if the “brand” will add to ours as they have an offer from an upcoming “brand” in the Wester part of Inde…….

But it did answer your question. Only you do not want to admit it. You talked about fairness. Well, here is a university whose idea of fairness is to punish and censor those who do not toe its line of intellectual and political conformity. A university that can destroy its own students after they have been admitted (and on merit, no less) for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of their academic work then what kind of a fair admission process do you even expect from such a university? And even after admission, what kind of research are you going to be allowed to do in a university like this? Hardly worth anything. Still want to join it? Fine. But don't blame others later for not warning you.

As a student from a recent batch of NLUO pre-2020 batches. I would like to point out some stark reality.
1. So the 2020 batch and onwards are the most detached batch of NLUO and its history. Although 2020 batch had the taste of some old seniors of 2017-22 and 2018-23 batch, but things wen spiral after they graduated.
2. 2019-24 is the batch that set a precedent of zero interaction with juniors and the most lethargic batch, which followed down the lane of upcoming batches.
3. VC changed the whole culture of how students interact with their seniors and juniors. This led to a situation where Student Council voice was shut and Freshers were overtly protected from even having a conversation with senior batches. This led to the extend wherein, there is not much of engagement between the juniors and seniors.
4. The inclusion of 3 year LLB was another blow to it. The first batch is the worst. A University of National Importance, decided to induct the first batch purely on the basis of first-cum-first serve. The worst decision to ruin just for some extra revenue. The result was expected. A group of oblivious and ignorant people who are more into student politics and creating rukus with the 5 year LLB. Even the first year of 3Yr LLB are more sad for their seniors.
5. The crowd at this point of time is more of self-engaged personality.

The culture that NLUO used to have been now gone.

Thanks for your comment. I wonder if these people are also bothered when Indian judges beg, borrow, and steal American jurisprudence in their judgements. As for the fear of contamination, they should worry more about the air they breathe and the water they drink because it is more likely that they are already contaminated. It is nonsensical to use a concept in science like "contamination" when talking about the human behaviour. The science of genetics has already proved that there is no pure race of humans. And human languages are living endorsements of eclecticism. As such, there is no pure Indian legal disourse or, for that matter, a pure American or British legal discourse. Yes, there are unique histories and politics embedded in each of them, but the act of thinking and the generality of circumstances in which it happens remains the same.

Your concerns are very valid. But I suggest you stick to Disputes itself because you have bagged a T1 internship mostly on the basis of your past internships. Even otherwise, as it would be your first time in GC/M&A/CM, highly likely that their might be other interns who have already interned in this area and are much better. It is obviously better if you know the basics when u hope to get hired at a T1. (work at boutique firms allow you to learn basics). Do not be disheartened, you have already work your arse off all this while. Worst case scenario, you do not get a T1 disputes job but then you will atleast have the option to compromise and work in a chamber / boutique dispute firms that would actually appreciate your previous experience. You will eventually get to move to T1.

i mean sure you must have to talk to everybody in the firm regardless of how they look but do you have more fun talking to good-looking people? do u release more dopamine when interacting with the latter? recently saw a group of friends take a picture, and then once the first pic was done, the good looking lads and ladies took another picture in the same pose (because, let's not kid ourselves, only the second pic was instagrammable and not the first one). guess what, i was part of the first pic and not the second. feeling very sad since then

Since March is close, I think these questions will be relevant for many people.

Question 1: Please share how bonus is allocated among associates in SAM/CAM/AZB/KCO/Trilegal/S&R. In addition to your partner's review, what else matters? If I am an A1 at one of these firms, how much can I realistically expect if (a) My team achieves its billing target (b) if it is close to billing target. Also what is the ideal individual billing at A1 level.

Question 2: What are the expected bonus payment timelines? Some firms retain a certain percentage of bonuses which is distributed in April/June to as late as October, November.

If each of you can chip in about your individual firms, we will have a holistic idea about the market.

Thanks

penultimate here, it takes me more time to explain certain intricacies than most people, though I have an in-depth understanding of facts & law in cases i work.

How can i be a great explainer?

I've found that it's a lot about vocabulary and memory of word placement, which can be done two ways primarily: (1) reading (2) keep talking. (2) is least possible for me as i am sort of an introvert. So, this leaves me with (1). But the problem is—most of the commentaries are a dry read, which doesn't build the ideal vocabulary.

Suggest some readings which also have some meaningful connection with law.

Hi everyone,

So I joined my first ever corp internship at a T1 firm and experienced this; The associates were too busy to mentor us and expected us to know everything before hand.

Problem is college does not teach us these things and the only way one can learn is through these internships ( college is T1). On the first day itself I was assigned a task- pretty clerical, I did it but took a lot of time because it required me to sift through multiple documents. After that I wasn't assigned work at all or if assigned it was insignificant.

Mind you, this is a small team. Another variable in this equation is an assessment intern who while wasn't getting significant work, was still getting more work than me. I asked my team for feedback and they said they weren't in a position to assess me since they haven't assigned substantial work to me. For good measure, I asked if I am not doing well, if I have not performed my tasks well; to which my team said that whatever I was assigned I did well. I want to understand from seasoned folks in the industry- Are assessment interns prioritised over interns who are interning for the first time? How does one learn stuff if the expectation is that we know everything?

You may want to consider exploring not just from a hiring perspective but also to ascertain if you really enjoy disputes as compared to other practice areas. Ofc, if you’ve made up your mind then ascertaining anything is out of question.

Also, you’re right that placement scenario in disputes is quite bleak so corp can definitely be a backup option.

“And we all know how that 1 is selected. So not worth going through the rigour, only to be rejected cause you didn't have the "quality" they want. And even after that, your PhD submission to be withheld for "quality" reasons. It's an opaque process.”

How do you all this, oh wise one? Please enlighten the rest of us.

Sir/ma'am thing is the least of the problems here. The entire ragging thing is a relatively minor problem at NLUO. Here, the biggest concern is getting dragged into mediocrity due to the crazy peer pressure to oppose any kind of seriousness or grind. You'll be pressured into partying or paying for freshers', farewells, etc. If you listen to the wrong seniors or batchmates here, you're fucked.

Dear fellow. If you go looking for a strawman, you will always find one. But, at the very least, you can do others the courtesy of reading their words before accusing them of “glazing” something. All I did was answer the question raised in the previous comment while offering my own perspective (speculative but based on certain facts) on the apparent difference between PhD vacancies advertised and filled at NLSIU. I do not claim to be definitive on the matter and neither can you for it requires us to have facts that only NLSIU has. And my own experience with NLSIU is that they do not prefer to share as much information as a public institution like them ought to. As for the RTI, sure, feel free to think what you already do. I only answered that point because I found it amusing to have the data that I received from my RTI application metaphorically shoved at my digital face.

Now to come to the more serious of your contestations. I see little basis for comparing the situation in one university with another, especially between those that operate at such different scales. Compared to DU, NLSIU is, in every single respect, a smaller institute. Fewer students, fewer teachers, fewer programmes, and yes, fewer PhD vacancies. Can the same be true in ensuring fewer applicants? I do not know. But it is worth considering that in a country the size of India, distance between one’s home and their prospective university can and does play a role in where they are able to apply. It may seem surprising but traveling far for education/work can generate expenses and anxieties that not every one can easily overcome.

Curiously enough, NLSIU has not enabled reservation in its PhD admission. I am not sure whether and how this is permissible but I am hoping there will be more discussion on this.

As for the comparison with CSLG/CILS in JNU, again, it is a question of institutional autonomy. I am myself surprised that NLSIU, a state university, has more autonomy than JNU, a central university, in deciding how many vacancies to fill. Now what can we learn from CSLG/CILS filling in more seats than NLSIU? That CSLG/CILS is better? That CSLG/CILS is producing great research? Or that NLSIU is more discerning? That NLSIU aims for quality over quantity? None of these, either for or against one of them, can be directly inferred from PhD admission data. Any such assessment would require a more careful analysis of student/faculty research output and that is beyond the scope of this conversation.

But, then again, filling seats is only part of the story. There is also the little matter of actually doing original research that can stand the scrutiny of one’s intellectual community. Few will dispute (and fewer still among the university teachers) that the quality of research in social sciences (including law) in India is really quite abysmal. For sure, much is produced but little is contributed to the public and academic discourse. There are many reasons for this and the quality of students is only one of them. I am myself not interested in blaming students alone for this ongoing scholastic tragedy.

Finally, you find it “hard to believe” that NLSIU could only find one suitable candidate in law last year; evidently, NLSIU does not. In the absence of other relevant facts, one really cannot say which one of you is less hard to believe.

Somehow I do not think IIT Kharagpur cares enough about the social sciences to actually run a comprehensive programme. The one that they have recently started, Master's in Public Policy Law and Governance << https://gateoffice.iitkgp.ac.in/mpplg/ >>, seems a desperate attempt to join the trend of offering expensive (over-priced?) public policy programmes that focus on working professionals and who ultimately turn out to be government officials most of the time.

As for IIT Delhi, they appear to have a decent faculty << https://spp.iitd.ac.in/faculty >> and they have also focused on doctoral research in public policy. But it is too early to assess its value. Being an IIT and being in the national capital certainly helps though.

1. S&R - 1.25 crores PA

2. KcO - 1.2 crores PA

3. CAM - 1.1 crores PA

4. AZB - 1.2 crores PA

5. JSA - 90 lakhs PA

6. Saraf - 90 lakhs PA

7. TT&A - 95 lakhs PA

8. Luthra - 80 lakh PA

9. Trilegal - 1.3 crores PA

10. LKS - 75 lakhs PA

I believe 'headnote' is originally British terminology (it is certainly the term they have been using for a long while). Some people tend to think that the use of Americanisms 'contaminates' (or somehow dilutes the quality of) our (in some ways similar-to-British) legal system's discourse. The logic behind this thinking is not very clear to me, TBH.

I agree with the rephrasing of the POV. Yes that is truly something that the govt should do. Either they must provide legit aid or fund universities in the manner they deserve. I agree govt aren't working enough on accessibility of education but just the fact of making some obscure institutions and adding the number.

Next. We are not self-pricked individuals. IIM are not for UG. Except a few which are providing some UG programme. At masters, at least those rates are duly possible if one can do it. But not for someone with a lower middle.

The point is NLS has a total fee of 25 lakh or say 28 lakh for 5 years. That is too huge. This is an haphazard management of services for UG. Overall, 25 lakh and some institutes charging 50 lakh like Jindal. And the new IIULER claiming around 50 lakh. Why don't we understand we aren't in the UK? UK is not the economy to replicate. We are in India. 16000 whatever sterling is too high in Indian standards.

Mbbs at state clgs is 5-6k. They crack NEET.

IIT charge overall 6-7 lakh for 5 years. They crack JEE.

Law charge overall 25-30-50 lakh for 5 years. And we crack CLAT.

What's the BAR COUNCIL of India doing? Why doesn't the Supreme Court take a suo-moto of this? Why don't lawyers speak up against such injustice. These are UG programmes for some school passouts. And this is not London/Amsterdam/Madrid/Swiss.

What kind of costing are they following? Why doesn't the govt take Legal education seriously? Why doesn't the govt invest in subsidized legal education at least at state institutions such as so called NLUs?

Or are they deliberately aiming the elitist to join?

The problem is not just with NLS. But with every Law college that is permitted to charge around more than 6-7 lakh for legal education. We fairly have no VOICE that speaks against the injustice of ignorance by the system. This system doesn't care of the quality of our courtrooms, this system doesn't care if the legal mechanism is working properly or not?

If NLUs wants to expand, they must be financed from sources other than just the students. They need to justify that to the lame system: "we cannot anymore put the burden on students to pay for all the expenses" "we need some much hundred or thousand crores to expand" Because this is UG programme. What's the difference between a private institution and a state funded institution then if we have to pay nearly the same?

And for concerned with sources. It's very decent to procure them at one rate. Learn some maths buddy. One time purchase for all 300 kids isn't that expensive and yearly maintenance should not be that costly. All that you mentioned from databases are ONE TIME investment. They recur and updating might be required, which many aren't aware of.

The point of entitlement and privilege is irrelevant here. The point that NLU + Law school charge so much that technically those without entitlement and privilege leave to pursue law. And when people without privileges do, institutions don't fund and throw them under the bus even after working hard. And someone from a rich background with reservation per se gets a degree from the top institutions.

I've primarily interned in disputes and have callbacks from two Tier 1 firms' disputes teams. Now, I have an opportunity to intern at another Tier 1 firm and am considering whether to list GC/M&A/ Cap markets as my preference, given that many from my college who pursued disputes haven't been hired. Since I’m from a T 2 NLU, would it be a smart move at this stage to explore other practice areas from a hiring perspective, or should I continue focusing on disputes? please help.

I've interned here, it was mostly an enriching experience. It's mostly a young group of Amity/GGSIU/Symbi associates, it has recently got some really good orders in their favour and is a firm to watch out for.

Regarding the PPO query, I think they do give PPOs since there was a fresher in my course of work who had previously interned there. In addition to this, fourth and fifth year law students did apply for an assessment internship. Additionally, they also have some vacant space, so it logically makes sense for them to expand. Go all out in this one!

See above screenshot shared by me. Has evidence of the professor organising this event. See text of email- it says “writing on behalf of several faculty at JGU”……meaning the professor was part of this grouping of professors which organised this infamous event. Much of the objectionable content of this event was subsequently leaked to the press. See link: https://organiser.org/2023/11/04/204866/bharat/op-jindal-university-pro-palestine-protests-author-achin-vanaiks-anti-hindu-remarks-stir-controversy-read-details/amp/

True and I agree with you. I only mentioned NLSIU’s BA (Hons) programme because I assumed that OP may prefer an environment where, without directly studying law, they would still be exposed to its pedagogy and prospects while being in a position to either pursue another career after they graduate or go the route of the LLB (Hons) if they so desire. I think the same experience, if not lesser, is possible, and definitely cheaper, in doing one’s under-graduation in certain colleges of DU. The only challenge is to outlast the competition. There is also BA in Social Sciences offered by TISS Hyderabad, about which I know little.

Ultimately, what matters is good company which is capable of stimulating one’s interests and providing the opportunity to engage in meaningful action. And while we do hope that our “best” institutions are more likely to provide the same, the world is simply too large to not stumble into happy accidents in other places. I hope this will not be interpeted as an excuse for “giving-up” but only a reminder for any young person here that their life will not be finished if they did not achieve every dream of theirs. For there are still more dreams to dream, more places to go, and more good people to meet and enjoy.