We aren't addressing the elephant(s) in the room:

- Jobless growth in the legal economy

- Cabal of Indian law firms blocking foreign law firms, whose entry may have created jobs

- Nepo kids at a certain law schools are taking away a lot of the jobs.

- Because of the poor quality of faculty in most NLUs, students are not taught practical skills and are unemployable. On top of that reservation had resulted in a dilution in the quality of students.

At this point IIM Calcutta. However, the degree awarded will be a Ph.D. in Management (Corporate Law). There's a direct entry for those with a 5-year integrated degree like BBA-LLB (Hons) - no need for a master's degree. Exposure to Class 12 mathematics is good for this.

IITD has just set up a CoE for Law and Technology (https://daksh-lawtech-iitd.org/). It is still in its formative stages but expect it to offer higher degree programs in the next 3-4 years in Tech Law.

I honestly don't see the recession getting any better. With election season looming over us, we'll be seeing higher taxes and higher freebies with lower growth. Prepare for the worst, next 10 months will see hyper-inflation with immense slowdown and Aritificial Intelligence will be joining the party too. The job market is only going to get worse. Just hope there aren't any riots to make things worse; before election season there's no guarantee.

Geniune suggestion... In campus join "Think India" and work your way up from there. Outside of campus... join "The Rashtra Sevika Samiti" (National Women Volunteers Committee).. that's the women's wing from RSS.

We may criticise BJP, NDA and RSS loads, but the truth is that there are more chances to climb the ladder and become an MLA or MP without nepotism and family background via the RSS framework.

However, politics is not a joke, if you do wish to join it remember the only moral purity left will be your neta waale-white kurta pajamas. If you really wish to change the country without compromising your values... join Civil Services, Armed forces, NGOs or policy think tanks.. policy formulation is not done by politicians, they only stamp their names on it.

Please suggest a model that I can wear to work:

I'm 25M and absolutely don't care about watches. I cannot be bothered with all the delicate movements and histories. I want something reliable, accurate, fill it and forget it type. Smartwatches are out because I don't want to charge another device. I don't want to be bothered by scratch on the sapphire/crystal/whatever glass, I should be able to bump into door handles and not care. Basically I want something like GShock or the F91W but formal looking.

The job description and the current govt makes the job sound pretty intriguing. Is anyone aware of what exactly will the job entail, how much is the in hand salary, the perks (if any) and how the overall experience is? The applications are being accepted through UPSC website for only 3 general seats. The exam process will be one prelim test and then an interview. Is the interview process fair? Basically is it worth to spend a couple of months preparing for the exam?

I have more than 7 years of experience working with IP Boutique firm (~2years) and MNC. Having specialized in patents, I find it less interesting to now continue working in the MNC. I have heard a lot of good things about the Patent practice at KCO and that they are expanding like anything these days. With that experience, can anyone please share his/her experience with IP practice at KCO? Also, what should be the figure (fixed + bonus) I can negotiate during HR discussions, if any? Any other leads or job opportunities in Tier I or boutique would be very helpful. Thanks!

Asking all A0 to Partners, How do y'all manage your marital life along with hustling at office? Would like if people shed light on their work timings, time spent with each other, future goals etc.

My Boyfriend (Advocate but doing business full time) and I are planning to get married February 2024

Legal profession is one with too many job-seekers and barely any job-creators. Indian population lacks innovation and scientific aptitude, at the same time, Indians are highly argumentative and political which makes Law and UPSC the preferable career options, creating a deficit of job-seekers in software, medicine and engineering research (which are the jobs that pay the most).

Ultimately, we need to privatise education in STEM so that quality of education improves and not everyone has to sacrifice their childhood and mental health for JEE/NEET and we desperately need population control bill.

Honest questions - what are your hours like? What was your first take-home salary? Did you even need it?

It's frustrating for the lot of us who leave our families to slog it out at seniors' chambers, spend our nights staying up past 3 AM, and lose our hair in our mid-20s. I'm just wondering if the legacy kids have any of the same anxieties that is shared by first-gen lawyers while they go for macarons and coffee with their uncles and relations in the profession at 5 PM.

Because:

- Holding different standards for different regimes, be it between countries or between different Indian states

- Holding different standards for hate crimes against perpetrated against one community vis-a-vis those perpetrated against others

- Funding from the same sources (George Soros, Ford Foundation, Qatar Foundation, tech companies like Google, Mozilla etc). Lack of introspection about these donors and their agendas.

- Flawed research because of all this, e.g. ranking Taliban-controlled Afghanistan as freer than India.

- Hypocritical celebrity endorsements: people flying in private jets lecturing about climate change

- Growing toxicity in the workplace and lack of accountability for sexual harassers

- Performative wokeness

Yadava has not really done anything yet in the academic circle to deserve any additional accolade after his Rhodes scholarship. Calling him a serious scholar at this stage would be premature, especially in comparison with people like Khaitan. He is a junior academic as of now, teaching at a good university, does not have any international level publication yet, may do so in the near future.

Just read what she did to poor Shikhar. Refusing to return his child, forcing him to make her owner of his properties, making him pay lots of money for supposed upkeep of her daughters from a previous marriage, shouting at him for visiting his father in hospital when his father had Covid.😡 He was going through so much, no wonder his form dropped.😢

This woman is really evil and we need courts to hold such people accountable too! ▮▮▮

https://www.barandbench.com/news/delhi-court-grants-divorce-shikhar-dhawan-grounds-cruelty-wife

Looks great! A titan of yesteryear meets one of the most exciting young legal intellectuals of today!

https://www.barandbench.com/news/book-discussion-fali-nariman-shekhar-gupta-discuss-the-colonial-constitution-author-arghya-sengupta

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1709728393221009527

The "2S" means two-spirit, the extra "q" means "questioning" and the "+" means those not yet included and future categories, allowing for flexibility.

As far as 2S is concerned, it is a concept used in the case of North American indigenous people, who have a tradition where a person born biologically male can undertake a role combining traditionally male and traditional female roles, while dressing in traditionally female clothes. It's possible/probable that similar roles exist in Indian adivasi communities too.

As far as "questioning" is concerned, it's a very empathetic expression that includes people who may later identify within the binaries of male and female. Or people who prefer not to tick any box for now.

So should we use these terms in Indian law schools? Most Indian law schools simply say "LGBT" or "queer". That's all.

@user-1,

Sorry to put it bluntly, but it is on you to demonstrate drive and ambition. Maybe do an internship at a smaller firm or a boutique firm. Financially, it might be a strain but you want to break into corporate law so you need to show initiative at some level (since you say your college/grades/internships/extracurriculars are not going to cut it).

Further, it may not be my place, but your dismissive attitude towards trial litigation is disappointing. Maybe it's not for you, but it's unfair to paint the entire bar and bench as "not brilliant". The key to being a professional is to seek out excellence wherever you find yourself. You'll find enough people who want to complain, but those that do well work hard and make the most of every opportunity.

Best of luck.

Here are some quick tips to help you:

1. Search the website of the firm and it’s LinkedIn page, to see the recent deals it has done, the people you would be working etc.

2. Reach out to employees of the firm- preferably past employees, and ask for specific questions.

3. Take the positives from this thread, if any.

I would like to know exactly which hard-earned achievement are you referring to here. Also, should I tag you in every comment on LI that demeans the hard-earned achievements of other people and institutions? Half of what you publish every day do exactly that. Don't be a hypocrite at least!

I second whatever is written above. I worked in the general corp, and the partners were very rude and toxic. They will make you under confident so that you feel that they did a favor by giving you this job. They think they are creating jobs when in reality they just want visibility. They are like sweet poison, dhire2 poison will show its effect. Not worth it.

From what I hear from my batchmates and seniors (I'm batch of 2015) who got TCs and schemes abroad, none of the London firms have any plans to set up in India and even those who set up exploratory committees internally have abandoned the plans because they see no perceived benefit to coming here.

Anyone who can further confirm? Is all hope lost?

Start applying for internship in companies, think tanks and psu etc. It will give you a clear picture of your calling. When you intern in companies, please make sure to make direct connection with the HR and legal head or any person who has the power to take people in. Don't work like just another intern, try to reduce work of other members. That way they might give you ppo.

You're there to learn not earn. It's an internship, not a job. You are not entitled to any remuneration. Forget about internships, try litigating, and see how much you earn in the initial years. God, I hate entitled new gen lawyers, always comparing law with STEM careers. Law is not lucrative, never was, never will be !

Then join the academia and prove to be better professor; or be an advocate and fight against such people; Or better crack the UPSC, work in the district and show them real administration. But the fact is, you won't do none of that. You'll scurry your way away as soon as you get a PPO and live life as a corporate slave, contributing nothing but taxes that every duty bound decent individual pays. And then you can come here and rant again.

Despite this incident it will be labelled as 'her fault'. Also, most of you will just read and write your sympathies here. When in reality, none of you will go and practice in court to fight for cases like these. You just want the money in your AC cubicle pushing files. Corporate fools. Pathetic people.

Snowflake ! Leave law ! It's more than 9-5 for every place in law. With this attitude, I genuinely advice you to go for MBA. Atleast your overtime will be compensated adequately better than law. Law is, and was, never supposed to be about the enormous money like STEM. It's more about the passion. Don't be a paper pusher and go litigate, atleast in a few years you'll have the freedom to choose your work timings accordingly. Still will never be 9-5 ever.

Lol at people saying academia. Teaching an hour worth of class takes two to prepare. Add constant research and publication. Conference attendance and society work. Plus put in administrative work and finally if you're incharge of hostels or committees, that's another one.

Sure, just like any other job if you want to stay mediocre, you can 'work' certain hours and go home quick. But, if you want to be worth your salt. If you want to be more than mediocre and be an authority in your field. It's a grind.

Kid if you want a 9-5 job, be a labourer. Currently, that's the only job in the world that gives you those hours. We, as humans, have screwed up the whole system that unless you're filthy rich, you WILL slave away for 10-12 hours to succeed. Otherwise wish you happy mediocre life.

Hi folks, how would you rank the T1/T2 Lit teams in Delhi in terms of work culture? I understand that most teams maybe inherently toxic given the intensity and long hours involved in disputes practice itself, but still which teams have an edge over the others, purely based on the culture and without regard to the pay offered? Those working in these teams, please share your insight. (I’ve heard SAM Delhi is decent, followed by Khaitan)

So I got my first paycheck for the first time in my life. It ain't really much it's around 25k and I don't know what to do with this chunk of money as I make like a simple budget plan for the month and save 50 percent of my income (i live w my parents lol) so I just need some any general finance tips/advice on what not to do with your money especially in a firm culture type setting from the seniors

It's probably the biggest news this year for any NLU. The ▮▮▮ VC and Registrar of HNLU who didn't hear the pleas of a brave girl who come out against gang-rape done to her ▮▮▮ resign. And the male student sof the Uni who ▮▮▮ are also likely to ▮▮▮, as a viral post on Law Meme society has exploded across all NLUs. ▮▮▮ They should be named and shamed publicly.

A Partner at L&L did the same thing with his A0, and when the A0 couldn't find the case, he emailed him disparaging him for not being able to find the case law. In his email, he sent 3 case laws, and asked the Associate to send him the soft copy.

The Associate couldn't find the case laws, and later when he asked the Partner if he used ChatGPT, tha Partner answered in affirmative, and then continued to disparage the associate by telling him that he had to use ChatGPT because the associate was worthless.

The funniest part is that the Associate was a cheeky bastard and recorded the conversation. I heard it myself, and it was a laughing riot.

Having worked there, you have a good work life balance. Weekends are respected. Office time: 10:30-8 PM.

I would refrain from speaking on the work flow, team etc. That is subjective. Some people want high work life balance and less work, while some want vice versa. You can find work flow from online applications, legally India etc.

I feel inflation will skyrocket in future. I think the basic living cost of retirement (excluding housing) per year person, to lead an upper middle class lifestyle, will be as follows:

2040: Rs 50 lakhs a year

2050: Rs 60 lakhs a year

2060: Rs 70 lakhs per year

So, suppose your retirement period is 2040 to 2060, have at least 5 crore saved from 2040 to 2060, plus 6 crores from 2050 to 2060. If the retirement period is from 2050 to 2070, have at least 6 crore saved from 2050 to 2060, plus 7 crores from 2060 to 2070.

join the young thinkers group, the org which had the conference at nliu

they are looking for articulate presenters, a female lawyer would be a catch

if you want to go downmarket then the female vounteer at shakha or Durga vahini is also available

if you do not want to build a ground connect, then connect with the bjp lawyer cell at your city, go to few of their meetings, and see how things proceed

Basically, no. But you are thinking about it the wrong way. Just be the person you want to be. Go out in the world and meet people. Dating apps are fine as long as you don't take them too seriously and get dejected. Think of them as offering options instead and many of those options may not work for you.

Being able to communicate your feelings is great as long as you can handle the fact that other people may not react as you want them to. Many men are entitled and disrespectful but if you treat everything you have been through as learning, then you will learn to spot shitty men and okay men who are not okay for you.

You're doing everything right except for patience. If you waiting so long to build the life you want and to search for the right kind of partner, then search also slowly and carefully. Once you stop seeing being single as somehow lacking in worth, you will take your time deciding what options to explore and what kind of men are worth your energy. And then maybe you'll find someone. Or maybe you won't. But if you don't, it'll still be better than marrying someone wrong for you when you are very young and getting stuck with them for life. A lot of people you think are happy are actually like that.

I’ve worked with Manmeet Sir directly. Working with him is a dream come true. You would be put on high stake matters, with huge corporate clients. You’d be sitting in client call with him. He follows a non-linear hierarchy, that is even a fresher can report to him. Don’t think much, if you get a chance grab it. What may be harsh, would be the immense work load, but that is manageable if you have passion. If you consider it as a 9-5 Monday to Friday job, don’t join. But if you are hardcore passionate about litigation- join him, your career growth would be immense. Yes, all of this is true when you work directly with him.

Sir,

I am a graduate from 2020 Batch. I did 3 years L.LB, and I am not in a metropolitan T-1 Cities. I am litigating under a senior (by experience) advocate in District Court.

I wish to become the best and work in best matters in best forums amongst and with best people.

My plan of action is to get into Law Firm and work for a decade to save enough money to be able to rent a room and office and litigate in Delhi HC or SC. BUT I have been utterly unsuccessful in getting a position in Law Firm , approaching sr adv chamber has also been unsuccessful. Hence Lawyers from non-nlu and non branded law colleges/universities have nowhere to go.

Can you help and/or guide us as to how to make our lives meaningful and how to slingshot from District court to High Court or Supreme Court ?

Students of today deserve the teachers that they get. Students rarely complain and take actions against bad faculty, so long as they award marks and attendance and allow delayed submissions. They do not come prepared in class or put in effort, which in turn demoralises the few good faculty who are left. If you make teaching a chore instead of a pleasure, then you will only get such teachers like you referred to.

The first comment was a sarcastic one that merely said that Raag should not even be compared with Tarunabh at this stage and doing so amounts to irrational hero-worshipping. Which is absolutely true. TK is a globally respected scholar while RY is merely a junior academic with very few if any credible peer-reviewed work of scholarship to his credit. Nor has he achieved anything of note yet following his Rhodes, unless you are calling an Assistant Professorship at NLS a credit-worthy achievement in its own right. How is that anything but factual and which hard-earned achievement of Raag has been demeaned by this exactly? There are hundreds of LI comments which are many a times more derogatory than this but still allowed by you all on a regular basis. This is biased moderation in the favour of an individual, nothing else.

An A0 as per KCo's nomenclature means PQE-1. They have fixed 1.45L monthly (17.4 LPA). KCo doesn't disclose the bonus upfront.

PQE-0 (freshers) are called "F". Their fixed pay is 1.3L monthly (15.6 LPA), with no bonus at all - making KCo the lowest paying T1 firm for freshers.

Hope this helps.

When did LI become to plebian? This used to be a forum for the successful lawyers, and the soon-to-be successful lawyers. Now people are venerating piracy, when in reality it's (a) wrong, unfair to creators, and (b) cheap behaviour, which won't get you far; once you join a law firm, you shouldn't continue to have your middle-class college value system. You should aspire to a better lifestyle. An A0 can easily afford a nice smart TV in a few months, so why cheap out on OTT subscriptions? Like the post above said, you'll appreciate it once you have your work colleagues over for chilling scenes (that's how you network, build contacts). Ultimately in this profession, those that do that end up succeeding, those that treat law firms like tech jobs end up plateauing around SA/PA.

So if you really want the Partner cabin, then buck up and conduct yourself accordingly - dress well, be groomed, eat well, be seen at the right places, join the right clubs.

I understand from the perspective of market. Necessary skills to become an associate are mostly generated at workplace. But importance of academics cannot totally be disregarded. I don't understand the unpaid part, though. No one should do labour for free. That's it. Be confident and have a value for yourself. Disregard unpaid opportunities. Then only the profession will become better for our and coming generation.

Hello guys, i just started a virtual internship at DSK. Ive been receiving plenty of work from associates and they make me work pretty much the entire day, well past the office timings. I remember reading in a post here that DSK doesn't have the concept of call backs? Is that true? Also on a slightly different note, how exactly do you ask for a call back, and do we do it at the end of the internship? Thanks in advance :D

An average MBA makes more than an average lawyer.

A top lawyer makes more than an average MBA

A top MBA makes FAR more than a top lawyer

MBB pay 1cr to someone with 4-5 years work ex, with several more promotions to come. Challenging hours similar to T1 but less toxicity, more professional management and most weekends are yours.

Added bonus of unlimited exit options. As a lawyer you'll top out your career at 35 and then do the same shit for the rest of you life.

I hope you feel good about yourself, for the snark. On to a more serious note, no place is an absolute meritocracy. Litigation has a way to go in becoming more accessible. But it's not as though the law firms are meritocratic utopia. While the first few years are rewarding based on calibre and commitment, the partnership of all these firms are as networked old-boys' clubs as any other. In fact, I'd think the number of rank outsiders at the top of the law firm world and the litigation world are moving to parity.

Omg no. No bonus for F. There is bonus for A0 because A0 is pqe 1. What exactly is so hard here?

It’s just literal terminology difference. Just like a counsel at kCo means someone sandwiched between Pa and partner. While a councel at Trilegal is one step below the partner and above the SA. Therefore a Pa in khaitan would be counsel in trilegal.

Golden rule to understand KcO bonus now: at 0 pqe zero bonus for you.

Need is always there, the question boils down to what extent your product will fulfill that need. I am not too impressed with how you have explained it (what is 'creating letters'? Do you mean drafting?). Additionally, what insights can it pull up? Is the database of 5.4M cases IndianKanoon? Why not also look at academic articles/books? Regards

I've seen some professors at NLUs work 10 hours every day. Granted that they are a minority. Most hardly work more than 2-3 hours a day. CLAT coaches on the other hand have to work hard if that's their sole source of income. Multiple batches have to be taught in large enough numbers, then material and questions have to be prepared, mock tests graded etc.

@Mod: Are you now deleting comments subsequently after having allowed them? I distinctly remember two additional comments to this Raag/Tarunabh comment, both of which did not have anything trollish in them either. Moreover, even if someone claims those to be trollish, isn't the practice to mark those thus, instead of deleting those altogether?

Sp I tried interning in two firms, I got stressed out by working for long hours everyday. I come from relatively privileged backflip where I don't have to support parents, they in good gov jobs. What can I do as a fresher which gives 9-5 work? Will in-house hire me ? If yes, what do I intern in for in-house

Can we learn as associates as well ? I am currently interning at this firm which tells me to avoid going to my college and work from 9 in the morning till there's work (8-9 minimum) without any pay. I take a metro and takes 3.5 hours to and from. Get no time to study or anything. Should I do such internships or look for chambers with decent hours ? After graduation I plan to shift war workplace

i’ve just recently gotten to know bout this, and to think that since 2019 to this day, no action has been taken makes me lose faith in humanity. how can people be so cruel? how can one let this slide? the fact that everything she wanted, everything she wished for is not completely destroyed makes me feel sick to my stomach because i feel so extremely bad. how many more serious cases like this will the court ignore? how many more people will have to live with this trauma without any validation and support their whole life? just to think about this makes my heart ache. 4 years. 4 YEARS of waiting for something to happen but still nothing? i cannot explain how proud i am of her for opening up and speaking up about it. i don’t know her but i hope nothing but the best for her.

Half of the non-partner, non-A0/A1 rung in my team is going to quit at the end of this financial year (or at least claim so). Murmurs of 'this is not a life worth living'.

None of these people got screwed over in the increments. Sometimes the golden handcuffs can also lose their sheen. I guess we'll find out on April 01.