The pandemic pay rise race has continued into 2022 as well with US law firms drastically increasing pay to retain resources:

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/ny-law-firm-raises-starting-salaries-215000-lawyer-pay-race-continues-2022-01-20/

That basically translates to 1.6 crore per annum excluding bonus. For context, fresher salary in Indian firms is 1/10th of that. Even assuming disparity in cost of living (say everything in US costs 5 times more) AND taking into account the high cost of law school there, it will still be 2-3 times of what Indian law firm associates are making.

The last round of hikes by CAM/SAM/Khaitan etc did not even meet inflation rise from 2015 base (which is 32%, if you're wondering). While law firm salaries were attractive back in 2013-15, 16L is not an uncommon salary anymore.

Given the pressure and attrition has pretty much been the same here, when will law firms realise this and hike their pay?

I'm not advocating for the Indian law firms but I've always found US Law Firm salaries a bit impractical. Paying a fresh grad out of law school 200k+ is insane. That being said, Indian Law Firms paying a 10th of that with basically worse work culture and load isn't fair either.

Cost of living is also high in USA. I mean this of course does not completely justify our Indian law firms' salaries but still should be considered.
They will realize it when they actually get to see young grads pursuing other things like litigation/Judiciary/UPSC/Academia or the like. As low as the salary may be many young people still join those firm because academia does not look very lucrative, litigation is only for the exceptional first-gens/people who have family as their backing (I am not undermining the talent of these graduates but believe me an average child of a Judge/Advocate can surpass talented people with just average work. Only the 'creative wonders' in Justice Chagla's words can make it.) and they do not want to be posted in some rural area for their life.
As long as the 'supply' (forgive for my word but this is the reality) does not go down they won't. Another thing that can happen is that people in mass resign so the management is forced to quell this problem with increased wages.( again forgive for my word but this is the reality.)

While this post is on fresher pay comparison, I can attest that it also holds true at upper levels.

Fresh non-equity partner level pay has pretty much stagnated - with minimal increment once you move from PA to partner. While being promoted to partner in most Indian firms was a mere designation change, there were at least some perks attached to it.

Now, honestly, it doesn't feel like it will make any difference in my life if I do get promoted.

We should unite to petition the government to allow entry of foreign law firms in India.

Literally, which other sane industry/country in the world is not globalized?! This is deeply entrenched crony protectionism - which benefits no one except for the likes of Cyril Shroff and Zia Mody.

I've recieved a PPO for about. 12 lpa (2022 batch). I was very content and so is my family (ofcourse could have been better by 2-3lpa but still).
You've no idea what value still does a ballpark of a lakh per month mean to an average indian household. It's probably not your or an individual's fault too for the number of upper middle class (which is a tiny piny fraction of total India) is staggering (not commenting on it being good or bad) in the Indian law school ecosystem.
While I do get and totally support fresher's salary to increase with the workload thatz shoved into us, but I totally disagree on your point of 15-16lpa not being uncommon. Probably not more than 2-3% engineers from and working within India earn that figure, even if we talk of 2022 when we talk of it.

Yes, but 15-16 LPA package is also what only 300 law students in a year get. So that's makes it 2-3% of the lawyers population.

Either we compare the top 3% lawyers to top 3% engineers OR the rest of lawyers with the rest of engineers.

In both the cases, engineers have it better. Their top 3% salaries are way more than ours. Their bottom salaries (3-6 LPA job) is still more than what most freshers in litigating chambers make.

You can't take a law firm salary, compare it to someone working at TCS/Infosys and be happy about it, right? That wouldn't be a fair comparison.

If the discussion is about bigLaw and big tech Then yes the comparison is always between T1 lawyers and cushy software jobs of FAANG. Only they are comparable. Not all software jobs are from big tech parks of Bangalore and Hyderabad, there are obscure software companies in Tier 2 and 3 Indian cities also and their engineers do not get paid that much. On an average it is true that there are much more better paying engineering vacancies than legal vacancies and it is not even a question that tech is a more cushy and well paying job if we consider overall aggregate and averages. But when it comes to legally india discussions which are dominated by LLB kids of NLUs the comparison is only between Tier 1 legal jobs and other top jobs of other fields. So the rest of lawyers with the rest of engineers is not even on table.

If you are talking about IIT placements and NLS/NALSAR level placements than law schools have it better, as there are top IIT students who end up working for TCS at 30k per month. Not all IIT grads get 6 figure jobs. The disparity between TCS and Trilegal starts after say 7 to 10 years of work ex.

While I agree with you when you say that a lakh per month means a lot to an average Indian household. Quite a few people in that economic class are starting with salaries like a lakh per month which their parents received towards the fag end of their career and all.

But when you make a profile on a marriage portal and see that people in your age group engaged in IT, consultancy, RND are earning 20-25L at least and some IT professionals working with the biggest names in the field are earning 50-75L working on a fixed hour basis, it does make you think about your career choices and the value of the pay for working 12-15 hours a day to a shift job.

I work in US Biglaw. The key differentiator, IMHO, is that US biglaw rarely bills on fixed fee basis. The hourly rates are high and, in general, firms don't undercut each other by offering cheap "blended" hourly rates or capped fees. That's a game changer so firms that have $1bn+ revenues can afford to keep paying well for talent - especially in a post-pandemic world, where more and more associates question the relative value of a biglaw / I-banking / consulting career.

In India, talent is cheap and with only 7-8 large firms all competing for the same mandates, competitive undercutting is rampant. This combination of factors means that firms can't (and don't have to) shell out $$$ for a pair of typing hands. Ultimately, asset costs will reflect revenues, whether you like it or not.

says the fat lazy partner who shouts orders all the time, does no work, doesn't know a shit about the law (and wont bother to learn it and when there is mess blames the juniors) and then guzzles away the maximum bonus come march.this is what happens whenyou have have families running"law firms" and a bunch of sycophants controlling day to day management.Doesn't look like foreign forms will get to practice in India any time soon, better to run abroad.

Lol. Assume they’re simply paying for skills learned during the degree. Indian law students for the most part wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to those from even mid level law schools in the US. Maybe the top 5-10% of students in the top 1-2 NLUs.

The rest of you need to take a real hard look in the mirror and think about what exactly you’ve done to earn even the salaries that you do get.

Totally agree. I mean the fact that these law firms give jobs to low tier NLU Or private law college students is shocking. None of these students have the intellectual capacity to deserve such a salary.

I feel many top tier NLU students get discouraged when they see students from lower tier NLU or private law college as their colleagues in law firms. Do yourselves a favour-law firms- think about your brand. Don't let these low tier nlu Or private law college ghochus work at the same salary as top tier NLU folks. Give them half or even lesser.

Why is it crap? People post stuff about companies and firms from other industries, ever seen them hire from low tier places, no? The fact that the starting salaries are so much, makes people work hard to get into top colleges. Now, if through personal connections or otherwise, these lower tier or private law college people get the same jobs, whats the point of putting in effort to do anything?

It's nothing against the people from low tier colleges, its simple genetics, a lottery. But that does not mean that these low tier college people do not even acknowledge it.

That's really bullcrap. As an Indian who did an LLM at one of these best US law schools, we had many overlapping classes with the JD students. We outperformed them in class anyway. So that's really bullshit. Yes, the quality of education is leagues better in the US, but ultimately the quality of students need not necessarily be better (I'd say some of their best students in their best law schools are probably equivalent to some of the best students in the top schools in India). And everyone learns on the job whether they are in the US or in India. No need to over romanticize their students.

You had the benefit of 5 years of extra legal education compared to the JD students, in addition to you being some of the best students that India sends abroad. It shouldn't be a big deal that you outperformed them, while being one of the students of those law universities at that time, not Indian ones. So this was a case of harvard students outperforming harvard students, really.

It really isn’t. I too went to possibly the best US law school. You out performed the class average but you are not representative of the average Indian student. People who get into graduate programmes in these institutions are drawn from a pool of toppers in other countries.

I also surprised myself at being able to keep up and put perform the JD students, but when I compared the average JD students work ethic and commitment , work experience. And just plain skill with the law to the average NLU student in a T1, the difference really is night and day. A good quarter of my class basically had no skills to speak of when they graduated- they got hired by firms and such mostly because the firms expected that the NLU tag meant they could keep up and learn when they needed to- and that’s true enough- but I have no doubt that they wouldn’t last a day in world class universities.

I’ve also had Indian students intern with me- that quality is slipping- fast. Interns nowadays seem unable to do the bare minimum and show basically no initiative. The focus is all on scamming a job out of you rather than build any skills or actually contribute to the work we do together.

If anything I think NLU graduates are in a happy bubble about their recruitment scenes and the pay they can expect. I think it’s very possible that that bubble will burst in the near future.

Thank goodness, you are not an economist. No, the pay is not 2-3 times. More or less, it is similar if you take cost of living into account. Have you seen lawyers in NY? A lot of them struggle to find decent places to stay coz of high rent.

I think the salary given to law firm associates here is top notch. And if the attrition is due to money, then it's stupid to expect that a raise will satisfy the greed. It will be never ending.

Any attrition in Indian firms is coz pandemic has made people realise their true calling. It's to do meaningful work. They no longer prize money and mindlessly run after stupid things.

Many are taking up noble causes such as teaching, law clinics, NGOs.

Stop making everything on LI about money.

Again, which NGO pays you to preach to others all day? You do this noble work na, let other people worry about fending for themselves.

And just fyi, an NGO is structurally incapable of affecting real change. Socioeconomic justice is still largely dependent on the whims of the state. Organisations that do meaningful work in the arena of labour rights get into serious trouble with the government. A majority of the UAPA cases in west India are for attempted unionisation. Ffs an entire class of electrical workers were in prison without bail or trial for THREE years for trying to unionise against Reliance.

There is absolutely no reason for anybody to have hope or expect to make any sort of real difference, and you should be ashamed of yourself for pretending that there is.

You are really shallow, my friend. Your assumption that I would do something only if I am paid for it, shows your cheap capitalist mentality. Stop thinking about money all the time.

Now that we are on the subject:
What does a lawfirm job really get you? 1-2 BHK, drinking on weekends, 1 vacation per year? that's bloody it. So stop making it sound like you are the king of the world if you run after money.

Now, consider if you do something that gives true satisfaction and makes a difference. For your information, you will never know till you try. There are so many social workers making a huge difference to our society. It pathetic that you tried to trivialise their contribution on a public forum.

Live under your false reality. You will never know true happiness and satisfaction. And yes, there is no harm in preaching to see a better india, to see your fellow lawyers happier.

There actually does exist a tool which can relatively accurately calculate PPP. See: http://salaryconverter.nigelb.me/

Caveat emptor: "Last Updated: Mar 2018". With that in mind:

Quote:

In India, 4,295,286.83 INR will allow you to buy the same things you'd buy with 215,000.00 USD in United States.

Wow. OP is right.

I agree with the sentiments, but we must also bear in mind that most top industrialists in India are from traditional bania community families and may prefer to consult with their trusted legal advisors from the same communities even after liberalisation. I refer to families like the Ambanis, Adanis, Jindals, Birlas, Hindujas, Damanis, Ansals, Goyals etc. Parsi businessmen like Tata, Godrej and Poonawala tend to be more open-minded, as do tech businessmen like Azim Premji or NRN Murthy, as do new-age startup founders. However, remember that Indian lawyers have decades of experience in using jugaad, influencing politicians, courts etc. I doubt if Linklaters or A&O can do that, or would want to do that. So if I need any dirty work done (which is often, because India is a corrupt country), I may prefer to stick with desi firms. In fact, this is even true for MNCs. Look at what happened to Amazon recently.

At a conference at JGLS, I once asked a managing partner from one of the top law firms why firms like his were opposed to liberalisation. He said: "Who says we are opposed? Let them come in. They will see how things work in India and then run away after a few months."

He was joking, of course, but was he also correct?

Comparison btw Indian and US Law Firm:-
1. Pay structure- Higher in US Law firms.
2. Work culture- Much much better in US Law Firms.
3. Working hours: More flexible in US Law Firms.
4. Toxicity- More in Indian Law firms.
5. Opportunity for Growth- Better in US and Stagnant in India
6. Work-Life balance: Better in US firms.
7. Attrition rate- More in Indian law firms
8. Global reputation:- Better for US law firms.

This question highlights the significant pay gap between legal professionals in the United States and India, with U.S. law firms offering substantially higher salaries. The author suggests that even when accounting for differences in the cost of living and the expense of law school, U.S. legal salaries remain significantly higher. The question also touches upon the issue of salary stagnation in Indian law firms since 2015 and questions when they will address this growing disparity.