Coz young people are smoking waaaay too much. As it is the air is so toxic. So hardly surprising people get heart attacks.

Gen Z is repeating the mistakes of older generations and taking up smoking to copy actors and influencers. Girls especially, sorry to say. Copying Gigi Hadid, Kendal Jenner, Sophie Turner etc.

Because there are some people who actually want to improve their knowledge without obsessing over grades. For example, I have a friend who is an IRS officer who is a non-lawyer and wants to do an online LLM in tax law. She can’t take leave and go abroad as she has family commitments. I also know a litigator who wants to expand his chamber practice to IP law and wants to do an online LLM in IP. He also thinks (with some justification) that an LLM will give him some cred while hustling for clients or applying to be on government panels.

Please move beyond your bubble of “Cyril Shroff will only select those from NLU X with 7 GPA, so I will enrol for banking law by Galgotia Sir and Gender and Law by Mukherjee Ma’am as they like me and will give me good grades. Then I will get a PPO from CAM and impress Devina from 2nd year who doesn’t look at me and only hangs about with Karan Oberoi”.

Tier 1 law firm job.

Work for 2 years, get some knowledge about how things work in India, get your enrollment done and go to harvard. Otherwise india bar your Indian llb and experience is worthless. NY firms look forward to candidates who have worked in home countries. Not freshers.

Also, harvard you can get any day. Work experience only increases your chances.

These days American Masters don't have the value as in the past because of immigration issues. I have seen idiots getting into Stanford MBA (who couldn't get to any third rated IIM in India) and many dumb kids getting into Colombia for llm. Even Harvard llm is not difficult. Why American masters don't have value is because it doesn't have any returns. You can't repay the 2 crore loan with an American job.

If you are chinese a western masters make sense because you can get clients. In India your degree doesn't matter for clients as language is not a major barrier.

You will be forced to come back to India. US Visa is almost impossible to get.

Most employers hate sponsoring foreigners. If you are a techie probably you have a shot at getting an H1B sponsorship. There is a dearth of techies. But law? There are thousands of jobless American lawyers. Even elite law schools in US they find it hard to get NY based AM100 jobs.

Now all movie ratings and review have become politicaises. Bhakts stan Animal for promoting aggressive masculinity and Railway Men because it has pro-Modi actor Madhavan and makes the Congress look bad. Libs stan Archies even though it’s really cringe with crap songs. Like WTF have Archie and Veronica in India speaking Hindi??? Either just watch Riverdale or have an Indian teen movie with Indian character names.

So sick of politicised movie ratings and reviews. 😡

If you are a litigating lawyer - take membership of all the bar associations where you practice.

For eg. I have bar association membership of Saket, Delhi High Court and Supreme court.

If you are not practicing all you need is an enrollment. My friends in law firms don't have any bar association membership. They have paid rs. 14k for the delhi bar. They don't need bar association membership. Anyways most commercial/corporate lawyer's don't file Vakalatnamas.

Looks like I’m going to RGNUL this year. I’d have loved to go to a higher ranked NLU for sure—but it is what it is and RGNUL it is. Should I write CLAT again? I’m not seeing the LLB degree as a be all and end all, but rather more as a transitory point to maybe judiciary or UPSC or maybe higher studies abroad. By whatever I have read at LI, anything below GNLU is almost deemed as not worth studying. In the bigger scheme of things with so many private colleges, non NLUs, and maybe the corporate placement not being everything that it is meant to be, is RGNUL that bad an option? You all have seen this more, been there and done that—any insight would be valuable.

Yes, many PG aspirants might be motivated to do their judiciary preparations alongside LLM course. But you can't expect a University, that too of NLUD stature, to cater a course as per whims of a candidate which would take out the significance of the degree itself. First you want a big University name to be associated with you, and when the University lives up to the academic rigour, you blame the University for not allowing time to do other things. Grow up.

Despite all of this, the person would have actually given serious efforts to both commitments. But he/she failed and is now ranting here.

I am in a T1 NLU and cancel culture here is just horrible. A 9th standard student of my school has better tolerance then the liberal wokes here. I want to know is this the same scenario in law firms as well. I know law firms have a lot of work to do so they won't have time to engage in this crap, but if my seniors could pull up such wokeism on cancelling their peers and professors inspite of a hectic academic culture then anything is possible. I am okay if people disagree with me as long as they don't demonise me and it doesn't affect my job. I am concerned about growth of militant Islam (Islamophobic), believe that marriage is between male and female and won't attend pride parade (homophobic), supports Narendra Modi (Sanghi and Bhakt), is of the view that a man cannot just 'identify' as a woman and walk into women's bathroom or play women's sports (transphobic) supports trump and Israel (racist). Can I be open about all this to my peers or will I be called out and lose my job? I don't mind being cloistered for five years in law school but I am not willing to be so for my entire career. I do academically well and I am quite confident that same will be the case in law firm. Any insights on conservative safe spaces in law firms will also valuable for others like me, i.e. if they do exists. Also R-wingers in T1 law firms do vent your experience on this issue.

I am from a non-NLU pvt college. We currently have international law and human rights as subjects. Unfortunately both are being taught by the same professor.

The problem is that the said professor appears in class, dictates notes and leaves. That's their method of teaching. No ppt, no notes, no reference, no articles, no books, nothing ! When requested , reasoning given is just write down whats being dictated and vomit it in the final exam.

I'm genuinely interested in the subjects, could NLU students help with providing some necessary mandatory readings or articles or journals that are must read to atleast cover the basics ? Is there anywhere I can get a detailed suggested reading ? I tried searching and found DU LLB, but that focus more on cases than on theory parts. Any help ?

Hi, your interpretation of this article is completely wrong due to the following reasons:

1. The article talks about Indian universities teaching the course, and you receive a foreign degree. The article clearly states that the same is not allowed unless and until some pre-requisites are met, like physically visiting the country of the university offering the degree. For example, X is an Indian university. Y is a foreign university, in US. X will teach Y's course to 10 students in India (maybe because they have some sort of a joint MOU). Now, these 10 students will get degree from Y university, NOT X University. The article states that, for such degree from Y (obtained through X) to be valid in India, pre-requisites like visiting US (place where Y university is located), etc. is imperative.

2. Online LLMs – If the LLM is taught by the foreign university and the degree is offered by the SAME foreign university, there should be no problem because the same is still recognized as: (a) it is governed by that country's regulations; and (b) the UGC does not expressly bar such foreign LLM taught and AWARDED by the same foreign university.

Please, read the headlines properly. Your post is very easily capable of creating the wrong discourse and spreading wrongly informed information.

URGING all readers of this article and this post to read the article and then take a decision cautiously, at their own choice. But, please, do not spread wrongly interpreted information just for the sake of getting those likes and comments.

That's exactly what he said. As per him NLS=NALSAR> NUJS. Hasn't a certain law school lobby already certified that NLS is no longer number 1 due to 300 batch size and other Messiah issues. At least this guy placed them on equal footing which is being realistic not diplomatic.

Have replied to your comment in the other thread (here: https://www.legallyindia.com/convos/topic/312870-important-psa-ugc-says-foreign-degrees-recognised-only-if-you-went-to-the-campus-abroad#comment-312887 ).

But it may also be relevant to mention the notice/email that JGU had come out with in response of this. Full text is reproduced below, but the most relevant bit I'm highlighting here: "The UGC does not follow any system of express approval for degrees and programmes launched by universities. Their approach is that of an automatic route, i.e., it is deemed to be approved insofar as JGU is in compliance with the UGC regulations and guidelines (which JGU is, as listed above). JGU is a recognised university and is fully empowered to offer all degree programmes"

AGAIN, I'd be happy to see a source which says otherwise. This debate has been going on for several years now but I'm yet to see any legit source saying this is not allowed.

---------FULL TEXT----------

"We understand that many of you have posed queries and requested clarifications regarding whether this Blended LLM in Corporate & Financial Law has been approved by the UGC and or whether you would be eligible to sit for the UGC-NET examination and pursue a PhD (whether in India or abroad) after completing this programme. O.P. Jindal Global University (“JGU”) and Jindal Global Law School (“JGLS”) have always believed in full disclosure to students, who are our primary stakeholders. As a responsible institution of higher learning, we have always adhered to all rules and regulations and have been in full and complete compliance of the same for over a decade and since our founding in 2009. In light of this, please find below answers to queries from some of you regarding the regulatory framework within which this Blended LLM programme lies:

This LLM in Corporate & Financial Law (Blended Learning Programme) is following all relevant UGC guidelines (i.e, the 1-year LL.M. Guidelines) to the letter. Some features of this Blended LLM programme that fall squarely within the UGC LLM Guidelines are as follows:

The Blended LLM programme has been introduced by JGU, under Clause 2 (viii) of the UGC 1-year LLM Guidelines;

The Blended LLM programme is being conducted under the aegis of the Centre for Post-Graduate Legal Studies of JGU (see Clause 2(i) of the UGC 1-year LLM Guidelines);

Admission to the Blended LLM programme has been granted after the completion of an all India admission test such as the JSAT, CLAT-PG, LSAT-India, etc. (see Clauses 2(iii) and 3.2 of the UGC 1-year LLM Guidelines);

The Blended LLM programme comprises 24 credits with 3 compulsory courses of 3 credits each (namely, Comparative Public Law, Law & Justice in the Globalizing World, and Legal Research Methodology), 6 specialised courses of 2 credits each, and a dissertation of 3 credits (see generally, Clauses 2 (v) and 7 of the UGC 1-year LLM Guidelines);

The one-year duration of the Blended LLM programme is divided into three trimesters, with each week comprising 30 hours of learning time, inclusive of teaching hours, library work, and research hours (see Clause 6 of the UGC 1-year LLM Guidelines); and

The courses of the Blended LLM programme shall follow a continuous assessment/evaluation component as well an end-term examination period at the end of every trimester (see Clauses 8 and 9 of the UGC 1-year LLM Guidelines).

The UGC does not follow any system of express approval for degrees and programmes launched by universities. Their approach is that of an automatic route, i.e., it is deemed to be approved insofar as JGU is in compliance with the UGC regulations and guidelines (which JGU is, as listed above). JGU is a recognised university and is fully empowered to offer all degree programmes. JGU has also received the highest NAAC “A” accredited institution besides being given the status of “Graded Autonomy” by the UGC. Hence, JGU is fully empowered to offer all degrees including the 1-Year LLM Degree programme.

We have complied with all guidelines and regulations of the UGC concerning the 1-Year LLM, and graduating students would be receiving the same LLM degree from JGU as awarded to candidates completing JGU’s residential programmes. The final degree, awarded upon completion of all the programme requirements will be a “Master of Laws” degree from O.P. Jindal Global University (with no mention of “online”, “blended”, or “upGrad”) and will be supplemented with a certificate of specialization in “Corporate & Financial Law” from JGU’s Centre for Post-graduate Legal Studies. We are also happy to inform you that graduates of JGU’s residential LLM programme have enrolled in PhD programmes in the past.

Having said this, please note that this programme has been designed for working legal professionals and/or persons who are looking to advance their career in the corporate and financial legal profession. To this end, much of the academic rigour prevalent in conventional LLM programmes has been converted to professional rigour, and we would therefore advise against enrolling in this programme, if your only desire or wish is to pursue a career in academia.

The LLM degree programme of JGU will indeed make you eligible to write UGC-NET Exam in Law or pursue a PhD degree in Law subject to relevant rules of that University. The 1-Year LLM graduates of O.P. Jindal Global University have qualified UGC-NET in Law and enrolled in PhD Law programmes at JGU and other Universities. Similarly, our 1-Year LLM graduates with requisite qualifications have also secured permanent teaching positions in various universities in India.

While we understand that it is natural for some concerns to arise given that this is a first-of-its-kind programme, we trust that this e-mail addresses these concerns. We look forward to meeting you all during classes and lectures, and are thankful for your continued participation as the founding batch of the JGU’s Blended LLM Programme."

Source? AFAIK, there isn't any UGC directive barring such degree from UGC NET/PhD or otherwise. UGC had given IoE privileges to JGU, which allowed them to offer this online. This has been discussed on LI several times. Would be happy to (finally) see a legit source mentioning otherwise.

why not talk to students who go there?

the difference between the two universities in terms of performance (academically and socially) is negligible. as long as you're a hard working student you can make most of the opportunities that either universities can offer you.

the major differences between the two would be what your personal comforts and conveniences as a student are. that is specific to what you want and you're looking for.

moreover, a student at NLUJ for example can't compare life at NLUJ with GNLU campus life, since they have never actually lived at GNLU.

the best thing to do would be to get an impartial and balanced description from both sides. do this by connecting and contacting students who currently go there, maybe on linkedin or instagram. there's also a couple discord servers out there

No, it is not recognised. If someone informs the Indian university where you're going to apply for PhD or a job that your LLM was an online one, then you won't be let in, as the UGC doesn't recognize an online LLM degree yet. Certificate not mentioning it doesn't make the degree an offline one, unless you're prepared to lie when specifically asked.

If someone has a certificate then NLU authorities won't conduct a trial. The most they would do is check if certificate is issued by competent authority.

A letter won't work. If anyone who has better sports credentials applies, say a state or national player then they will get preference.

Head SP means nothing, literally nothing, I had batch mates who were children of MPs, MLAs, Union/State cabinet ministers, Secretaries, HC judges and also some IGs, DIGs.

They either got through their general rank, caste based quota or NRI quota.

In my day the list was publicly available with names and rank, you could check it, and believe me I did.

There are 100s of problems in NLUs but jugaad in admissions is not one of them.

So far, UGC doesn't recognize any online LLM, including the one run by Jindal. People with that degree are not eligible to appear for UGC NET or sit for any PhD entrance examination of any university other than maybe the same one awarding the online degree. Of course, some people hide the fact of the LLM being online if the certificate doesn't mention it specifically, but that's an unethical step to begin with.

Read up on what is a demerger - particularly what constitutes an undertaking and what doesn't. See 2(19AA) of the Income Tax Act. Go through section 45 and 47 + 47A to see what types of restructurings are not regarded as transfers. Go through provisions on carry forward and set off of losses and how change in the ownership of an entity or change of the entity itself (say, merger) affect those. Know what is the difference between a slump sale, a sale of assets, a sale of shares. Read up leading judgments like Vodafone (just for the fascination of big ticket tax controversies). Get a searchable PDF of the Income Tax Act and control+f for words like demerger, amalgamation etc, and read the section: you will know what all types of tax issues arise. Generally be aware of the fact that there is a GAAR provision.

On approaching an actual situation: a transaction may seem complex at first, break it down into steps. Analyse the effect of each step. Understand how the transaction works, who is getting what and paying what in return. If the tax outcome is too far divorced from commercial sense of the transaction, then presume (but this is rebuttable ..) either there is a mistake in understanding the tax or the tax planning is too clever by half.

Hi

Final Year Student from SLS Pune here, I got a PPO from Trilegal and shall be joining them in July 2024.

From my experience, college really does-not matter. Looking at my batchmates, there have been students who were able to crack training contracts in foreign law firms such as Baker Mackenzie and Linklaters. Additionally around 15-20 of my batchmates have received either a PPO or an offer in day zeros from tier 1 law firms. This was around 35-40 last year for the batch of 2023.

Rather than wasting time on this thread, you should chin up and get yourself to work.

Atb!

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https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/ugc-questions-study-only-in-india-get-foreign-degree-deals-says-certs-will-not-be-recognized/articleshow/106035347.cms

Some people here have posted queries about the online LLMs at Columbia, King's etc. Certainly, the courses and profs at such places are better than what one will get in India, while the costs are cheaper than going abroad. Working professionals also have flexibility. But the UGC notification means that such degrees will probably not be recognised here. The Indian government obviously wants to save foreign exchange and promote "Study in India", so they want to make people enrol for online courses in India. They would prefer if one enrols for an online LLM any Jindal or an NLU (those that offer online LLMs)

You may agree or disagree with the UGC's decision, but in view of this development I think people should only enrol for online LLMs in India. If you don't want to spend on Jindal, wait a few years and I am sure all the top NLUs will start one and offer courses at prices cheaper than Jindal.

It's incredible that the girl involved and described as a student is 42 years old (we would literally call her as aunty). She has a bunch of degrees from obscure rural colleges and is collecting even more degrees, while trying for government jobs. Similarly, one or two of the others are also unemployed graduates from obscure colleges and one is a dropout.

Such people are perpetually unemployed and keep trying for government jobs year after year, until they make it or until they hit the age limit and can no longer try. They probably don't work in the public sector as they don't have the requisite skill set. We complain about NLUs, but the colleges these people went to are literally cowsheds. Their degrees are just useless pieces of paper (typically in subjects like history or pol science). These are the people you see in random street protests in Delhi, supporting whichever political party pays them on that day or gives them a free burger. Some of them try to migrate illegally to first world countries, giving human traffickers their life savings.

This is the story of 70% of Indian youth. Of the 30% who are employed, many do mechanical jobs and will soon be replaced by tech. So this talk of a "demographic dividend" is nonsense. So what should the government do with this big chunk of unproductive, unemployed youth? Universal basic income? Draft them in the army?

These are the realities, less about personal experience. Some seniors give you briefs to handle within months, some make you pine for those. There might be instances of non-parity of pay in the same chambers. You'll get stock answers about fixed range salaries in case of non-lit firms, in-house, or government jobs. You'll have to engage on-field with litigators in the city/ town and court where you want to practice to know the real deal

I see a lot of anxiety as batch of 2024 is about to graduate, especially with respect to placements. I understand that the idea that you might not have a job after 5 years when your parents are waiting in anticipation that if not help them you will be independent enough to take care of yourself is scary. Plus especially if you are not placed while your batchmates have been partying after placements for a year now it is bad in its own ways. Then we ourselves have built an image of us and how our success would look like and to accept that things will be different, it is scary. As a 22 year old I had gone through all these emotions and so I understand.

I may sound preachy and you can dismiss what I say (I would have at your age because how can someone else understand what I am going through, right) but maybe I can help some of you.

I graduated almost a decade back and stupidly decided to not sit for placements but prepare for government exams. Appeared for Civil Services but couldn't clear. In the meantime had to stay alone in dingy houses in Delhi to prepare. During that period I would actively avoid my batchmates, stepped away from all the social media (to avoid seeing their foreign trip) and always wondered if I made a mistake. In the meantime my father's business went bankrupt and whether you belive it or not I had no idea. My parents hid everything while struggling with their financial problem even if that meant selling family jewellery.

After one of my unsuccessful attempts my father told me that I need to get a job for the family to sustain. I was so lost as I was now behind even my juniors and struggled with the idea to join as their juniors while had very limited skill set to consider any other field.

Thankfully at the same time one of my friends was appearing for an exam in which legal positions were also available and to my surprise very few law students appear in it due to low pay (despite what I read here that they are willing to do anything). I appeared and thankfully cleared it. This solved my problem of supporting my family because a family which has seen bankruptcy can survive on very little money. However, I still had batchmates travelling and partying while I had a budget a couldn't deviate no matter what. Soon thereafter I started looking for such exams where law students do not care to appear but with better pay and then moved to it. To my surprise there are so many that did it few times and reached a decent pay.

To my surprise after few years I got approached by headhunters because my skill set were in demand by law firms and soon I moved there. This has been few years and I think now I would like to believe I have done pretty well.

I know it is hard out there and no one should struggle after putting honest 5 years but some of you will have to. However, remember that it is a long career (irrespective of what influencers tell you) and a few years of perseverance will set off all the struggle you will have to have. It is hard but take a break from social media, calm down and make Plan B, C and D. At the end you will have a better story to tell.

Even those who live in Mumbai don't go physically to drop a cv. Use mail, instead of shifting to Mumbai and going place to place to drop your cv instead hustle in udaipur to find some references, mentor, past mentors, any friend, who will get your cv seen in a firm. Shift after you get a job. Won't throw money in water by shifting and paying high rent even before you have the job.

Sab kuch online ho jata hai. Even interviews.

Why don't you apply to the chambers of someone in your home state's capital city, who may be on their way to senior advocate designation in the next handful of years?

Your experience as a trial advocate will always serve you well, you can handle your own cases too, and those will feed into your senior's high court practice.

Firms don't pay too well and don't do enough quality litigation work to be able to slingshot you into the future you dream of. Avoid them.

You won't know till you know. Your solo practice won't be at the level of your current firm for some time, but you'll find yourself richer in a different way. You can always build a team, or partner with others if you need to. Time spent building a solo practice, I feel, can yield rich dividends. Good luck to you.

US LLM only gives you one year OPT. By the time you clear the bar half of it will be over and no one is likely to sponsor you for a H1B lottery.

Oxbridge ‘LLM’ helps if you can get it. Better to spend 2 years practising in India and clearing the sqe beforehand to maximise your chances.

oxbridge or top ivy llm does not help much with job hiring in the uk, if you want to start as trainee and <2 years experience

for lateral you would need at least 3 years pqe, if you want to have break after 3-4 think of MCL, Cantab

have a chat with HRs in uk firms, they do reply to sensible questions, also have a look at rollonfriday

@Student Whose Comment is Marked Trollish :-

Hi, bro I want an internship . I am looking for more such places. Mention your throwaway mail brother or do mail me - mufasa@deecie.com

Pls mention - Legally India in subject line.

Bro NALSAR and NLS are both great. As everyone has pointed out with 300 batch size NLS is bound to lose some sheen, and like every law school NALSAR has its own share of issues. But both are OG Tier 1 and continue to be so, and there is no evidence to point otherwise. NUJS is also good and there should ideally be no difference in career outcomes in the top 3.

@OP

I am not competent enough to enlighten you , Sorry . But I wish you all rainbows and sunshine should you all out and open your preneur . And if that happens pls consider giving internship to me.

In case you do have time to mentor someone , pls shoot a mail seriouspen@mail.com or pls drop your throwaway mail

Had a shitty college experience, but got placed in a big firm after graduating.

Now considering opting for non-law degree abroad to get a flavour of multi cultural experience and a better life. This comment couldn’t have come at a better time.

Do drop some names of Corp lawyers who went on to become successful in other domains post MBA and are in based in other countries.

Thanks!

Harvard results haven't been declared I think, you must be asking hypothetically.

If you get Harvard LLM - grab it firmly with both hands. You're probably going to be able to get an Indian Tier 1 job even later, and may have a fantastic shot at an international Tier 1 job.

Bo24, T-1 student with a top 5% batch rank here. Have a relatively good CV with a couple of moots. However, I missed out in the VS interviews last year. I have already secured an offer in one of the T-1s in India but I ultimately plan to move to the UK. Would an oxbridge LLM or a US LLM after securing one or two years of work experience in India make the shift easier? Do let me know how lateral hires work as well.

Your supervisor is the most important aspect of your PhD. At present, NLS has one of the best people to guide you in public law. In private law, you have limited senior faculty. In the interaction of social science and law, you have one of the best faculty. So depends ultimately on your subject. Look at profiles of NLS faculty and see if there's someone you like. Else try for somewhere else.

the above breakup is very apt for KCO, however there are people who directly make partner post the PA1/PA2 stage since it also depends on how much business one brings to the firm. Else everything is spot on! AZB, JSA and Trilegal pay a few lakhs more as far as bonus components in specific teams are concerned but there is just toooo much micromanagement which happens within most of the teams (which happens only at a select few teams at KCO). Having said that, some teams are very top heavy at KCO and if you survive those at the cost of your personal life, you will be sorted then both - financially and professionally.

Note: I got to know truly lonely people sitting at the top while working at a particular "toxic" team, not judging anyone but some of them are constantly grinding day and night after having "made it" in every metric.

Its a heavy cost you pay for getting to a certain point at Indian Biglaw where you get to choose your poison:

- Every legal opinion getting on Bloomberg, every deal headlining the TOI, clientele meetings at the Oberois and the deep pocket to get that Omega or a German automobile; at the cost of

- Rarely spending time with your family, going back to bed after the 3 AM meeting calls with your foreign client/team and waking up to endless emails; having constant anxiety about the final closing, billing and team management.

The money won't make sense after a point, you turn into a living wreck and eventually make partner. You loved the law while you were at college na? Now you will have emails from your alma matter and curious kids across law schools reaching out for internships and jobs. Thats the point where you will finally realize how time has passed and what it feels like to be on the other side of the table (thats when you deeply understand those group of "lonely people" that you worked for in your junior years and swore to never be like).

Sorry for this long ass reply haha, but I know you get an idea.

Scares me how you don't need to be smart for capmarks work. There is no difference between a kid from NALSAR or a kid from GLC as far as the ability to diligence the same data room's concerned. Even B&F is less research and more diligence (this may not be true for the Insolvency blend of work within the same teams - which is very litigation heavy).