I go back and re read the Arvind Datar chapter in Indu Bhan's Legal Eagles (https://amzn.to/3z3uzKo) every once in a while. Even from the few times I have bumped into him at conferences or the court, he has been a really nice guy so he is definitely an inspiration in this area.
Arvind Datar. Father was a merchant navy officer. No legal connections whatsoever. The man has reached close to the very top. And retains his humility - has not let success get to his head.
has to be arvind p datar. i have not got an opportunity to even talk to him. but he has come up through ranks for sure. by proper hard work and being diligent. have read a lot about him and a lot of his books on taxation. he was around with legendary nani palkhiwala, so yeah no guess, he is so good
There is nobody in Delhi who has made it independently of their own without the support or blessing of an established name. It is just not possible. legal circle is too tight knit.
I have been a practicing Advocate, in Delhi for over 7 years now. I have made it here fully on my own, whether it is getting about getting a retainership in a law firm or joining as a junior in an Advocate's chamber or getting my own clients. I am about to write the Advocate on Record examination, this year and that's exactly how far I made it, with my constant perseverance and hard work in the profession. It is never about anyone else but your belief in yourself. There are plenty of renowned Ld. Senior Advocates in Delhi who have a roaring practice as of today, while they never had a helping hand, when they started off or even through their journey. You're dream should be way too precious to even think of giving it up! And just to correct you, no professional circle is tight enough to make a place for yourself, let alone the legal circle. Rather, it's the limited thoughts that are so tightly knit that the courage to follow your dreams, somehow gets lost in the way!
As a law student, I wanted to ask you how much time does it take to earn decent amount? (i.e around 50k/month, so that you don't have to worry about money anymore)
Rajshekhar Rao, from what I know, is 100% self made. Even Gopal Sankaranarayanan, Siddharth Aggarwal, Satyajit Sarna, Tanmya Mehta, Anitha Shenoy, Arundhati Katju, Menaka Guruswamy, Diya Kapur, Shyel Trehan and Dayan Krishnan. There are so many examples!
Umm. Juniors at the Bar can make much (much!) more than 36 lakhs if they get a foothold. For top lawyers, making 36 lakhs a week (actually, a day, in some cases) will be more of a realistic estimate.
Most of these people charge at least 1L+ per hearing. Even if they attend two hearings a day, which is a conservative estimate, they make about more than 36L per month.
I absolutely adore Mr Datar, he was genuinely nice when I met him, and I was a law student then so in simple terms a nobody. However, the fact his father was in merchant navy would have led to a privileged childhood, and while we cannot chastise him for that but since the question was in a way about privilege that can be taken into account.
Also, don't know about the rest but Gopal Sankaranarayanan and Arundhati Katju come from powerful families. Shouldn't post here for the heck of it.
It will uske you literally one Google search to know their pedigree. Most of these people are exceptional lawyers, but nobody has had to face half the struggles of a first Gen lawyer from an average family background.
He's entirely self made. Father in law from the army. Father was in the army also and then in banking. If anyone says he went to an elite law school as they have for Mr. Sondhi - getting into a law school cannot discount ones achievements and it should in fact showcase how he and countless others took a chance on NLS in 1994 when it was such a bizzare concept.
Ever wondered why Sid Aggarwal has been pasted outside Court 2 of SC ever since he got designated? It's because his relative is the presiding judge inside. Yes, that's right. Let's see how often he is there after this week when the judge retires.
Most people on this list are super privileged [...]. Not to say they aren't decent lawyers and human beings themselves, but let's not pretend they haven't been helped along because papa / mummy made a few calls along the way or that uncles / aunties from the club / network subtly paved the way for their 'relative' success.
Tanmaya Mehta's late father was a HC judge. His FIL is a CJI turned RS member. So...
Even some others here are not strictly from a legal background but they come from a place incredible privilege.. offspring of civil servants / diplomats etc
This list is a joke - Rajshekhar Rao, yes, but it'll be a stretch to call most of the others "self-made" when they come from such influential and well connected families - especially GS, SS, DK, and ST (the backgrounds of whom I am personally aware of).
RR yes, but he probably got his jump after becoming ASC for Delhi govt, which gives face time with almost every judge and potential clients/briefing lawyers when you appear in 5-10 matters a day. Pretty sure GS had a role considering RR is entirely disconnected from power echelons and it was a congress govt in Delhi govt at that time. Patronage of big shot seniors is also a privilege, only a few of their juniors among hundreds over the years get that.
You're completely wrong - Google search toh kar ke likh bhai. RR was never ASC for Delhi Govt., he was Standing Counsel for the Delhi High Court (Administrative Side) from 2012 till designated as a Senior.
You've missed Karan Lahri, Vrinda Bhandari, Shivam Singh, Raghenth Basant, Jayant Mehta.... this list of self-made notable notables from NLSIU can go on and on and on.
Aman Ahluwalia, Arjun Harkauli, Nikhil Singhvi, Samar Bansal, Debesh Panda, Samiksha Godiyal.....superb lawyers, and I haven't even scratched the surface yet.
Unlikely that this or Sarna’s pedigree have anything to do with them being Counsels at Touchstone Partners, or for that matter, Samiksha being engaged by S&R Associates to this date for some matters. They have horned their skills, put themselves out there and worked really hard. The only credit that can be given to their successful parents is good parenting. Now, if you choose to call these coincidences nepotism, then it’s you with a problem. Not them, not their background or circumstances.
You seem to be harbouring under the misapprehension that family contacts don't become a crucial factor towards career advancement. They do and it's the same all over the world. Of course, to succeed, you still need to be very good at what you do, but the contacts will definitely give you a huge break compared to say a first gen lawyer of equal merit.
Aman is a great lawyer, but come on. One of his parents has a Padma Vibhushan, and the other had a Padma Bhushan. He's probably the most connected person on this page.
I doubt Aman’s professional success has anything to do with either parent (or his spouse, an AM Partner) propping him in circles of influence.
Could it just be that Aman was raised right by his Padma Awardee Parents, and groomed well at NLSIU, Harvard and Oxford? Could it just be that he has an aptitude for success in this profession?
And, why has his name even brought here? Aman is above all this court kacheri. From all accounts, he has divorced himself entirely from it and focuses solely on high stake arbitrations. An amicus brief here and there maybe, nothing more…Not even a Senior Advocate!
Can you tell more about Aman's work? Does he take juniors? Had briefed him once and he was excellent, but apart from that there isn't much about him on the internet or in the general court chatter - probably owing to his focus on arbitration work.
GSanks is the nephew of KK Venugopal, and the grand-nephew of MK Nambiar. His is also the son of a former Chief Secretary of Karnataka. In what world is that self-made?
Katju and Guruswamy are outliers in this example. Both had/have major political connects which helped them with clients and climb up the ladder. Read up on KN, Markandey and Vivek Katju.
Dislikes are for his ultra-right wing views - Manusmriti should become the law of the land, etc. etc. Otherwise he is a good lawyer - of his own making, successful too.
mr. datar, what an incredible gem ! very grounded and makes it a point to make interns comfortable. The stipend for the interns is a handsome 15k in a not so expensive place like Madras.
His dad was big businessman. His family has senior army folks. His school network is also elite. No way is he self made in the true sense. But yes, his family doesn't have lawyers or judges. But that bar for self-made cannot be that low.
Just to clarify this calumny doing the rounds - Gopal Sankaranarayanan IS NOT Venugopal's nephew. Venugopals nephew is Vijay Narayan, the ex Advocate General of Madras. Gopals father was in the IAS and retired in the early 90s before Gopal even joined Law School. His dad had been suspended from service by the Bangarappa government and Venugopal appeared for him in the Supreme Court. Of course, Gopal is close to Venugopal, but that's because KKV demands such affection, and not only from his own chamber. To shift from Bangalore to Delhi and start from scratch isn't easy. Rajshekar, Sidharth Agarwal, Jayant Mehta and others have their families in Delhi and that went a long way in building practise. Owning a home and having family support is a big thing in this profession, especially in Delhi. You won't find anybody who made it senior like Gopal did with such few years of active practise - he took 2 full years off from 2004-2006 to see whether he wanted to come back to law. Check his YouTube interviews out.
One important clarification to clear the late Mr. Sankaranarayanan's name- he was Chief Secretary of Karnataka, and was shunted into a secondary role because of his refusal to clear dodgy files. He retired because of the perceived demotion. He was well known as a model of integrity- all the obituaries and the whisper networks vouch for that.
Such context is needed before using terms like "IAS Officer who was suspended".
Why don't you guys see whose courtroom in SC Sidhharth and Rajshekhar are seen in on a weekly basis? One of them is related to the judge from Civil Lines and the other tags along as best buddy. ▮▮▮ ▮▮▮.
Why is it that when a lawyer is a BJP supporting one, there are so many downvotes? Are we not then guilty of the same lack of liberal values and intolerance that we accuse them of? The man is a good lawyer, he’s self-made. It answers the question.
When Supreme Court said that basic structure can't be amended by legislature Mrs gandhi tried to make a larger bench to overrule it and punished judges who delivered keshvanand bharti but didn't succumb to pressure tactics in juxtapose see what Mr did when Supreme Court turned down NJAC that guy didn't even tried to pass a law to negate it's effect that is the difference. Had this Constitution not been here Modi never have become prime minister let alone winning it again against the club of dynasties united. If Constitution and democracy has least danger from anyone that is Mr Modi. And i haven't taken the name of emergency yet.
So basically, no one. Didn’t need to start a post on this one to know the answer.
Delhi litigation is a joke and I hear Bombay isn’t too far either, everyone who makes it is incredibly privileged, they become senior advocates basis clients and court appearances arranged through their contacts and home dinners over the years, have offices and chambers ready for them, can work ‘hard’ for years with less pay because they don’t have to earn, have flunkies writing publications for them, get into top colleges because of references written by daddy’s friends, then scholarships also approved by daddy’s friends which is when they pretend to be poor and/or from academic / government service families, ultimately reach wherever they wanted to - as you seriously have to be dumb to not do well after this much privilege and time / exposure, and then their flunkies mention how brilliant they are.
As a wise client once told me, Nothing looks good like success .. so let’s not be in a constant state of delusion about what self-made actually looks like.
Don’t wish to discourage kids with normal family backgrounds wanting to get into Litigation, but be very careful and ready for all this.
He is an absolute gem of a person and a brilliant lawyer with solid, solid integrity. Having said that, might be useful to recall that he comes from old wealth going back a few generations in Calcutta.
A large number of people seem to be commenting about privileged back-grounds. Being related to a judge/ senior advocate/ advocate/ law firmtypes is definitely a fillip to the initial days of practice. As is being related to a bureaucrat, coming from a rich background. When one asks this question of "self made", I would hope that we go beyond just looking at a background or relation, but analyze how a person has used it.
For instance, there are children of judges (notable amongst them being Arunav Patnaik, when Justice AK Patnaik was elevated to the SC), who chose to withdraw from practicing in a court which was their primary court of practice because they didn't want to be seen as being "favoured". Of course - practicing in a city different from your parent(s) city can also lead to briefs coming your way from familial contacts, but one really needs to see how these things have been eschewed.
Similarly, for those laying a smackdown on bureaucrat/ industrialist/ rich person kids also need to see whether they're on a state/ PSU panel, or whether mommy has provided a steady stream of clients. In that sense, I would hope that you fellows stop false equivalencing "self made" with rags to riches.
Anyway - on my list of self-made lawyers, apart from those mentioned here, would be a whole bunch of others who I wouldn't wish to unleash a horde of LI trolls on. All I am saying is that there are a lot of us, and we have all struggled to find clients and command a fee, which piddlu kids of senior advocates get for the asking, as a second brief to dad.
VB is not self-made by any stretch of imagination. Simply not having a lawyer as a parent does not amount to being self-made. In addition, his actual success as a lawyer is still somewhat debatable.
No body is self made because a human being is not an island.
We are at the end of the day a sum total of many things and each one contributes to what we end up becoming ranging from our own competence, our parents, our spouse to even the location where we were brought up or stay.
A more apt statement would be that some people reach their true potential while others don't.
Abbey, O, Linguist ke ch*de, we all have understood what "self-made" is here. We may not probably define it but we can simply look and say who is "self-made" and who is not.
Jayna Kothari? Didn't come from a legal background as far as I know. and her parents didn't make their fortune till she was nearly an adult. She has certainly made her mark in litigation.
Jayna Kothari is coming from an extremely privileged background. Of using her uncle's office from the start, as he is one of the founder partners at the Mulla and Mulla. ▮▮▮ A lot more privileges to begin with, before she got an opportunity to make a mark in her litigation practice.
[...] Pay is minimal, was kicked out after completing 3 months in the name of assessment internship which initially was for a month only. Freshers or tax enthusiasts please stay away from govt counsel practice as its more about updating the compliances than tax appal or replies.
I have heard about this independent counsel at the SC- Pijush Kanti Roy who has the same rags to riches story. I know Mr. Roy because I usually sit in Library No. 2 at the Supreme Court and he is very well known as a counsel. He is perhaps one of the few non-senior-designated advocates who have the distinct privilege of getting called by their name and not merely as Mr. Counsel. Though he is not an AOR, the legend in Library No. 2 goes that his family started from the turmoil of the 1971 Indo-Pak War, went to a municipality school, studied on scholarship all throughout his life, and even went to Helsinki on a 100% student-scholarship. He then straightaway came to SC to practice and was briefly a junior to Retd. Justice SB Sanyal. Today, he holds a major chunk of briefs at the SC because of his robust counsel practice and is on the legal advisory boards of many governmental, national, and international organizations. He usually keeps a hush-hush profile but, is a major inspiration for many first-gen lawyers like me, who wish to practice at the SC. Nice person to have a cup of coffee with :)
Lol I know this comment will get some flak but, surprised to see that no one mentioned Tushar Mehta! As far as I have read about his career trajectory (which is very little, considering he has been SG for quite some time now), I don't think he had any family connections. But he got lucky a little early on when the senior, under whom he used work, was reluctant to represent Amit Shah for a matter and hence he ended up representing Shah.
I mean he will most probably not be anyone's ideal 'self made lawyer' to whom you may look up to, but dude's the SG!
Arvind Datar (who has already been mentioned in this thread).
Milind Sathe. No legal connections at all, born and brought up in a small town (Chiplun) in rural Maharashtra. Amongst the best and most successful in Bombay HC in writ work (and doesn't like being in the limelight too much - though has big clients).
You do know that Shivam Singh’s father is one of Bihar’s most sought after lawyers, and an AOR? But nevertheless, talent shines through even when the father is someone notable. You can’t discount people’s talent because they have some pedigree.
i have not got an opportunity to even talk to him. but he has come up through ranks for sure. by proper hard work and being diligent. have read a lot about him and a lot of his books on taxation.
he was around with legendary nani palkhiwala, so yeah no guess, he is so good
It is never about anyone else but your belief in yourself.
There are plenty of renowned Ld. Senior Advocates in Delhi who have a roaring practice as of today, while they never had a helping hand, when they started off or even through their journey.
You're dream should be way too precious to even think of giving it up! And just to correct you, no professional circle is tight enough to make a place for yourself, let alone the legal circle. Rather, it's the limited thoughts that are so tightly knit that the courage to follow your dreams, somehow gets lost in the way!
1. And I have no clue
2. why he writes
3. in numbered lists
4. when he could be writing like a normal person
does presence over there mean anything, i mean for people other than 1st year student
[...] is an inspiration for every junior law students like us.
These are top lawyers who are young. How much would they be making an year?
Will it be more than 36 Lakhs?
Most of these people charge at least 1L+ per hearing. Even if they attend two hearings a day, which is a conservative estimate, they make about more than 36L per month.
Also, don't know about the rest but Gopal Sankaranarayanan and Arundhati Katju come from powerful families. Shouldn't post here for the heck of it.
gopla subramanian is nephew of kkvenugopal
Regards C ghul j
This is just how Delhi works and it sucks.
Even some others here are not strictly from a legal background but they come from a place incredible privilege.. offspring of civil servants / diplomats etc
Could it just be that Aman was raised right by his Padma Awardee Parents, and groomed well at NLSIU, Harvard and Oxford? Could it just be that he has an aptitude for success in this profession?
And, why has his name even brought here? Aman is above all this court kacheri. From all accounts, he has divorced himself entirely from it and focuses solely on high stake arbitrations. An amicus brief here and there maybe, nothing more…Not even a Senior Advocate!
So, move on!
google him
Thanks in advance.
Otherwise he is a good lawyer - of his own making, successful too.
Gopals father was in the IAS and retired in the early 90s before Gopal even joined Law School. His dad had been suspended from service by the Bangarappa government and Venugopal appeared for him in the Supreme Court.
Of course, Gopal is close to Venugopal, but that's because KKV demands such affection, and not only from his own chamber.
To shift from Bangalore to Delhi and start from scratch isn't easy. Rajshekar, Sidharth Agarwal, Jayant Mehta and others have their families in Delhi and that went a long way in building practise. Owning a home and having family support is a big thing in this profession, especially in Delhi. You won't find anybody who made it senior like Gopal did with such few years of active practise - he took 2 full years off from 2004-2006 to see whether he wanted to come back to law. Check his YouTube interviews out.
[...]
Such context is needed before using terms like "IAS Officer who was suspended".
I believe A.A. Khanwilkar J., too is from very modest beginnings. Can someone confirm ?
2. Nakul Dewan
3. Zoheb Hussain
4. Ritin Rai
Delhi litigation is a joke and I hear Bombay isn’t too far either, everyone who makes it is incredibly privileged, they become senior advocates basis clients and court appearances arranged through their contacts and home dinners over the years, have offices and chambers ready for them, can work ‘hard’ for years with less pay because they don’t have to earn, have flunkies writing publications for them, get into top colleges because of references written by daddy’s friends, then scholarships also approved by daddy’s friends which is when they pretend to be poor and/or from academic / government service families, ultimately reach wherever they wanted to - as you seriously have to be dumb to not do well after this much privilege and time / exposure, and then their flunkies mention how brilliant they are.
As a wise client once told me, Nothing looks good like success .. so let’s not be in a constant state of delusion about what self-made actually looks like.
Don’t wish to discourage kids with normal family backgrounds wanting to get into Litigation, but be very careful and ready for all this.
For instance, there are children of judges (notable amongst them being Arunav Patnaik, when Justice AK Patnaik was elevated to the SC), who chose to withdraw from practicing in a court which was their primary court of practice because they didn't want to be seen as being "favoured". Of course - practicing in a city different from your parent(s) city can also lead to briefs coming your way from familial contacts, but one really needs to see how these things have been eschewed.
Similarly, for those laying a smackdown on bureaucrat/ industrialist/ rich person kids also need to see whether they're on a state/ PSU panel, or whether mommy has provided a steady stream of clients. In that sense, I would hope that you fellows stop false equivalencing "self made" with rags to riches.
Anyway - on my list of self-made lawyers, apart from those mentioned here, would be a whole bunch of others who I wouldn't wish to unleash a horde of LI trolls on. All I am saying is that there are a lot of us, and we have all struggled to find clients and command a fee, which piddlu kids of senior advocates get for the asking, as a second brief to dad.
No body is self made because a human being is not an island.
We are at the end of the day a sum total of many things and each one contributes to what we end up becoming ranging from our own competence, our parents, our spouse to even the location where we were brought up or stay.
A more apt statement would be that some people reach their true potential while others don't.
I mean he will most probably not be anyone's ideal 'self made lawyer' to whom you may look up to, but dude's the SG!
Milind Sathe. No legal connections at all, born and brought up in a small town (Chiplun) in rural Maharashtra. Amongst the best and most successful in Bombay HC in writ work (and doesn't like being in the limelight too much - though has big clients).
If what you've stated about Mr. Sathe is true, thanks for that information. He's truly inspirational!