If Avaantika has to review everything leaving her desk a thousand times over, she needn’t hire these well paid idiots to mess things up, she could do the work herself. By extension, Narayana Murthy also should check each programmers work before it leaves INFY. You are hired to do a job, well, and without complaint. If you don’t like it, if you can’t do it, leave. This is not the profession for you.

entirely unconfirmed information, but I heard recently that a tier 1 firm is going to implement a hiring freeze 'for the 2025 batch' by april-ish. I don't really understand how hiring freezes work - and to me it makes more sense to implement a hiring freeze for a particular year in general and not a batch specifically?

It makes sense to me if by april 2024, they choose to not hire any other students (apart from campus placements) for the year 2024. But it seems a little illogical if they decide in april 2024 itself who they would be hiring from a batch graduating in 2025 (which is why i doubt this is the case, subject to correction).

The associates made a mistake. Others copied on the email were responsible for supervising and correcting them. On behaviour. On work product. The reprimand was for them too.it was an internal email for her team. It wasn’t meant for our eyes. Now, people hire staff to do the work. Not to be rude, and tell the seniormost partner that they should check the work before it goes out. If that’s the work product, such juniors should certainly be dismissed. No one pays good, hard earned money for crap work and bad attitude.

People have employees to do the work for them. If they have to check and recheck everything the employee does, then the employee is useless. In this case, instead of firing, she has issued a reprimand internally, within her team. Some of the people copied on the email are superiors of the individuals concerned and mentioned. It will be their duty to further correct and properly manage them. She has not written this email as though to speak to the whole world. That has been done by whomever chose to leak it. I can show you, that the said leak has had a terrible impact on at least one of the boys mentioned. What was to be an internal course correction to be taken on board, and the reprimand forgotten by Monday, has become public shaming. https://x.com/Svyamm/status/1770694354044330183?s=20

I am from a new college whose first batch is graduating this May.

I donot see any good signs of placements happennig, with a lot of anxiety and no job in hand till now. I am in dire need of job owing to family conditions and handsome of law school of 20lakhs been paid already.

I have 3 -4 tier 1 internships, but nothing for a job coming out...

Please help, will owe the person a lot.

Buddy, the partners responsibility is to manage the team and get engagements, not check each outgoing piece of work. If that had to be done, they’d never grow their business. Associates, senior associates, principal associates and Partners all come below the head of practice, which Kakkar is. You might as well say Ratan Tata should have checked every TCS deliverable himself. These guys, especially the most senior amongst them, seem to have screwed up big time.

So Chambers of Joshi and SIngh, are in fact two distinct Chambers, one of AOR Jasmeet SIngh and the other of Naman Joshi. I can tell you of my experience at Chambers of Jasmeet SIngh. Freshers are paid upwards of 20K, (depending on their work and experience). Culture-wise, there is much to learn, it's a small office, so juniors are given much more exposure and responsibilities than what is provided at other chambers and a positive attitude in the Chambers towards work is appreciated. The Chambers take great care of its people who continue to work there, as well as those who leave the Chamber, as there is always good professional understanding and the Chamber assists its people, even after they start their own professional journey. Jasmeet Sir takes immense pride in his juniors setting up their own practice and achieving professional success.

Hello! I have previously participated in moot court competitions, but have not participated in an arbitration moot before. I wanted to know- what are the major differences in mannerisms/style/tone of pleadings? If anyone has previously done arbitration moots, please give some tips on how to do well, and any key points one should incorporate while practicing. Thank you!

Boss, no one who has had employees appreciates a smartass who doesn’t deliver the goods and has a bad attitude. Don’t want to work? Don’t. Think you’re smarter than everyone else? Open your own shop. Don’t stink up the team at somebody else’s law firm. And whoever leaked this certainly didn’t do these kids a favour. Avaantika Kakkar obviously has a huge book, and will be just fine. These kids are just starting their careers and will become unemployable. See what Svyam (one of the boys mentioned) has written on the Twitter Feed of the guy who posted the leaked email:-

https://x.com/Svyamm/status/1770694354044330183?s=20

Sir - When do you intend to join politics? Shame on you to use this as an opportunity to front a personal attack on the VC or the institution. If you have the courage, speak up, have a dialogue, do protest marches to bring reforms, if not that then as a student of the law seek the help of the judiciary instead of being a key board ninja.

For what ? We don’t know what the kid was going through at all. How do you take responsibility when we literally don’t know who is responsible ? Let them investigate - maybe there’s a note. In either case suicide is more often about the person who commits suicide and what they’re dealing with than anything external.

You don’t want responsibility. You just want a scapegoat.

you are right, the tables are always against you. The above example with 4 crore as a total team cost makes the Senior bill 12 crores (lets assume 3 crores going to the Senior Partner and 4 crore being team recoverable factoring the Junior Partner - still there is an additional 4-5 crores billed by the Senior and 1.5 crore billed by the Junior Partner; where both the surplus generated ends up going to the firm and is very rarely is adjusted for bonuses). Hope this gives an idea.

Adding to this, some firms also have have fixed targets for Associates lol, its a pathetic way to live life.

In the Big4 the multiple is of 4.

Going by your eg, the team would have to bill about 15 Cr to get to the 3x mark. Assuming the Senior Partner takes home 1 Cr fixed

Also do tell how the bonus for partners computed/factored? Have heard that the most a non-equity partner can make is 1.5 Cr even if he makes it rain. A senior partner starts at about 1.5 to 2 and rest depends on how much he makes it rain

You kids are the biggest hypocrites. You post here boasting about your luxury watch purchases, then you start crying the moment your boss rebukes you. You can’t have it both ways. If you want a Wall Street capitalist life, you have to be a part of Wall Street capitalist work culture.

I have seen at least 3 theories on LI:

1. He works for Clifford Chance in London. But I don’t think the Clifford Chance site has his name though (unless Kian Ganz was never his name to begin with).

2. He is very much around on LI and still moderating, under the guise of a woke Gen Z moderator called R.

3. He married a millionaire girl and lives a life of decadence and luxury, has long forgotten about LI.

Which one is it?

Why do you feel so many layers of review will be required? You understand it costs money right? Firms like CAM are trying to be more efficient, clients want lower billing. A3 can’t get facts and figures right?! Everything has to be checked with a magnifying glass 🤦

Who are you devta/devi

You would not go very far with that attitude

If you get paid for work know your place and do it

If you are an associate in a T1 firm and expect recognition etc you are a fool

Just do your work keeping your head down you make partner in 10 years hopefully

If you want to be the star overnight go open your own law firm

While you are working for a partner your job is to make that partner successful or you are out

Always remember that there are others eagerly waiting to take your place

Don’t delude yourself

None of this is rocket science, it just requires diligence- if you don’t have that go find another profession 😄

Not in any Indian University other than Jindal itself. Jindal tries to bypass it by giving the same certificate to all LLM candidates, which is unethical. However, if someone from the university where you would try to apply for PhD asks for clarification, and you don't lie, then they may reject your application on that ground. I have seen that happen.

That's literally what I said when I pointed out that there is gatekeeping by senior faculty. There is a difference between saying the institution shuts a lot of great people out and saying the institution only lets mediocre people stay. Shitting on the people who are actually putting effort into the institution might be your style but it isn't mine.

Nalsar isn't exactly a dream institution to join. Maybe you personally would engage in UPSC level competition to burn your youth in the outskirts of Hyderabad but most people have to be persuaded that it is worth the sacrifice. This 'lack of integrity' that you accuse RS and FM of was them using personal charisma and persuasion to get people to come and sit in the middle of nowhere and accept daily abuse from entitled students for their pains. Without their efforts, the faculty would consist of one or two power hungry but decent scholars and whichever locals were willing to tolerate being bullied by them in a remote village without access to any other community. VCs don't get paid more or get a better title for building a faculty that is a good mix of outsiders to bring energy and ideas, and people who will stay and provide stability and institutional memory. But they did it.

And um, unless these people are blood relations of the VC or senior faculty, your nepo analogy is farfetched. Not to mention that academia is mostly thankless service work and hardly comparable to the wealth and fame Bollywood brings.

If your goal is to get Nalsar to be willing to welcome outsiders and change, then your argument undermines it. When long term, old timers feel threatened, they will never let outsiders in. The only way it will happen is if instead of dumb turf wars, people understand that both kinds of faculty are necessary for the institution.

Junior Partners at T1s usually are made to bill 3 times their salary so assuming the take home is 80l fixed component, one will have to bill close to 2.5 crores. On the other hand, Senior Partners at T1s are made to bill 3 times the team cost (in the example below it would be around 10 to 12 crores out of which they are given a cut). Bonuses would be deal dependent and on a lot of billing factors which is not a consistent pay-out so lets not get there. For example:

4 Associates: 1 crore approx

2 Senior Associates: 60 - 70 lakhs approx

1 Principal Associate: 60 - 70 lakhs approx

1 Counsel: 70 lakhs approx

1 Junior Partner: 80 lakhs approx

Senior Partner: depends***

Note: inflate the figures for folks from Trilegal and TTA.

Watch Andhbhakts justify this along with the introduction of regressive and totalitarian policies by the current government and then cry about how every single global index has us near the bottom or declining at the very least, stating it's western propaganda. How can we claim to be a democracy if the elections are fair but everything else leading up to it isn't?

Genuinely curious: what is the partner's duty then if not even to check if the numbers are correct or not?

If a ship sinks, it is the captain who gets guillotined first. Their literal responsibility is for the team. That is their primary job description. You cannot reap all the benefits and externalise the costs.

Yes. This is because firms like this do not directly donate to political parties. They indirectly donate by setting up plants and projects in areas where the political parties want to bring the growth to. This is why Gujarat has tons of cheap solar while states like Karnataka have power cuts. Please apply some mind. Thanks.

I don't think that is the problem though. NUJS is in one of the best parts of the city, and we have a situation very similar to NLUJ here where random men from a neighbouring campus have been catcalling our female peers in the GH at night. This is not the first time, we have regular faceoffs with the students from JU who come to our campus gates with the sole purpose of abusing and intimidating us. Our VC will probably be writing a letter tomorrow regarding the recent incident to the dean of their campus, though it is doubtful that things will change.

So bad work, deserves, an even worse email? Irony is she writes about this rajat chap being a bully, when her own email, is nothing short of bullying and shaming. Don't blame the juniors, when the senior sets such examples. Cyril bhai, no lessons learnt? Or is the lesson that, kuch nahi hoga, nobody gives a shit? The world is changing, in a few years time, some kid, who's politically connected, would come out and over regulate you, just cos, he was in the shoes of these kids, at some point.

Moral(s) of the story:

1. Associates, need to get better. Both on the work front and behaviour front. While mordern- non-hierarchical structures and behaviour is good, there's sound value and reason in age old customs and practices.

2. Partners and their immediate reports (counsels/PAs), sure as hell, need to invest in training associates and no, this doesn't mean packing them off to do theoretical KM/CLE/leadership sessions.

3. Partners and other senior resources, managing teams and associates, should be told categorically, that bad behaviour with associates, is not ACCEPTABLE. Bad work? Just say bad work, once, twice and thrice and then be done with the associate. Don't shit over them - gets you nothing, and sure as hell, won't get them to work better.

4. Reverse reviews (juniors to seniors), should really be explored. Develop a conversation culture, where a senior is able to say bad work and the junior gets to say why and what they think the senior could have done better to help them do better work.

5. Resources with consistently bad feedback on behaviour (terror banda/Bandi hai), should almost invariably, never be made partner- unless they have a huge damn book, and are willing to service their own book with them tripling up as associates, Partners and PAs.

6. Associates, should buck up. Realise that this is not a game. Their work, affects their seniors reputation. Their health and life, even potentially.

7. Law firm management /top leadership should stop acting as if they don't read these comments and pick up suggestions, which seem remotely sensible. Instead of just playing the let it die down game and then eventually, this repeats all over again.

I graduated in 2023, and have been working in litigation since September. I have not joined any chamber (working with family, who do not have much connections)

I wanted to apply to chambers in Delhi to explore work there. I have a place to stay there as well.

How should I go about it?

Does cold- emailing work? What should the email have, like a writing sample is necessary, and of what kind? Can I just blatantly ask them to send me a file and I will make a brief asap so you would know? Lol

If someone can clear things up, thank you

Highly doubt that you are indeed a partner or a PA, ingrained in these outdated thoughts. In an over supplied supplied market, let's say you are a GC highly doubt, you'll ever make one, with this attitude, would you rather give work to someone who you know is nice (or atleast not horrible) and competent or would you give work to someone who is horrible and competent? There comes a stage, when there is little to differentiate between senior partners- ultimately choices are driven by prejudices or likes. For sure, being horrible, is not like a + on your profile?

Please stop being horrible to your juniors, just because somebody else was horrible to you, when you were incompetent as a kid. We were all incompetent at some stage. Time and tide, fixes us.

ILS is not worth it honestly, take a complete drop. You can think about taking GLC because of its attendance relaxation and very easy examination pattern. A lot of students from my batch had enrolled in GLC and had cracked tier 1 NLUs the next year. I don't really think ILS has that kind of attendance relaxation or exam pattern.

Also incase you are not able to crack clat (touchwood) GLC is anytime better than ILS in terms of Corporate or Litigation placements and internships.

You dont want clear instructions. You want to be spoonfed so that you dont have to do the hard work because that takes away from your social media time a d sad attempts at ten second fame posts.

You don't want others to be rude and sarcastic but want a free pass to be rude, disrespectful, sarcastic, bitchy, gossipy and whiney.

You want to WFH all the time when in reality you are just lollygagging around in your jammies watching reels on social media and thinking of new ideas for your social media posts and attempts at getting two minutes of fame.

You want all of the glory but none of the hardwork.

You want all the money but none of the responsibility.

You want it all.

You want. You want. You want. You want.

Lets reveal how targets are set at law firms. Are they 3 times or 2 times or based on value say like 10 cr etc. Are packages of senior partners/big partners included in them or they are paid out of profit or what is the situation. I ask latter as their package is more and its difficult to earn revneue based on multiple tomes of their package.

I often see at firms that associates and even lower junior partners are not allowed to take in their own work due to exclusivity requirement. But senior partners and managing partners usually spend a lot of time in their personal (non firm) related work such as their own legal matters or structuring their own businesses or start up fundings, sometimes even with help from firm resources. While they continue to prosper and do personal work at firm time and over work others, they dont allow juniors to do so. What is your experience

Which team made you feel like shit. Like you're completely invisible and your presence doesn't matter at all. I know associates have a lot of work and we don't expect them to entertain us. By acknowledging us or being a little inclusive wouldn't hurt. The place I'm interning even refer to my as the intern. They call me like - hi intern can you please come here

All offices are the same at the end of they day, depends on how much work your team has, if your partner has multiple deals on their plate they’ll expect you to burn your night oil and get shit done. If the team or the market in general is experiencing a low time you will have comparatively more time to invest in yourself. Thing is partners are not good or bad, it’s the quantum of work, the nature of the client and the urgency with respect to timelines (all of these factors vary from practise area to practise area like project finance and cap marks are usually considered the devils of the industry in this sense) is what determines how your partner will be in terms of being toxic or vice versa. Please do a lot of internships before you join the profession so that you are aware of what you are stepping into.

I'd suggest to skip it as a whole. Former employee here.

But in case you want to go ahead despite warnings, read up about their work on directories, see how your prev internship experience can be leveraged to fit in with their work. They like confidence and knowledge to back up that confidence in freshers.

Watch out for their HR people though. Boy, I've seen their 'choices' and they're all poor. But what do I know, been out of that place for a while now.

Honestly? The reason is that pathways seem narrow in the legal field even though there are lots of things to do. You can join an ngo, think tank, journalism, etc. But the real allure is that of money. I have never felt this exhausted, anxious and stressed, I have gained weight, and even though my partner doesn't berate me like this CAM partner, It sure does feel like it from their indifference. But I try not to think about it because in the end they're paying me. So people will just take these hits and move on. People are just using this news as gossip and being armchair experts for all things labour law and whatnot and forget about it. Because if not this then what else? What will feed our pockets and make us buy this expensive watches and fancy cars? Who cares if we become a husky of our former selves. In the end atleast I'm crying in a king-sized bed rather than a cot right? Thats why things will never turn around.

Law is a tough business

From time to time a partner will have to rely on juniors

Juniors in firms like CAM are well paid for a reason

If they can’t do their part appropriately they should be fired

Many times seniors find it hard to fire people and out of misplaced compassion end up berating them instead as a punishment

It never work

Just fire the damn guy with a smile instead- berating won’t change him

its the way legallyindia is designed buddy.
guess hammering the gavel is a fun activity.
so most people would like to see that animation and will just do it for the sake of fun :p
wish there was a way to undo the gavel being struck down. Lol

Judge toh nahi ban payenge toh bechare sab yehi thonka peenti kar rahe :P

Ive taught a good amount of time. And honestly- students who worry about not knowing things or not learning enough- theyre usually just going through imposter syndrome. You probably know more than you think. And even if you dont- you can learn and push. Learning is a lifelong endeavour with the law. Youll be fine. No one is too stupid to learn the law.

except we do. We have known them for 13 years now since they arrived at law school. Other people dont have an attachment to family or institution or city or health issues? almost every alumnus who has gone into academia has tried to expand their horizons by going to other universities for one or the other degree. Its ridiculous to claim special circumstances without asserting them properly or even providing any details let alone proof of the same.

If this was a discussion about bollywood nepo kids- youd be singing a different tune. The point is that academic appointments should not be handed out to favored sons and daughters- they should be obtained through a meritocratic process. That is what is good for the university. And in this respect- no VC at nalsar, not RS, not VS, not FM nor his surrogate, and not the current guy- no body has actually done the thing with integrity. You know why almost every other alumnus who has joined has left? its because they dont have the patronage/ support of the powers that be unlike the two we're talking about. and without that you cannot really survive an institution.

You dont get to jump to medication without diagnosis.

speculating about reasons for suicide is freaking irresponsible. A human being is dead. Suicide is a complicated thing. People who attempt it usually have many reasons for it and not just one, and people who attempt it are often dealing with complicated mental health problems. Please do not turn this freaking tragedy into some spectacle where you get to play out your agenda- whether thats hating sudhir or getting free grades or whatever else. Have some respect for the kid and his family.

With all due respect, nearly all the great alums of GLC are now dead. Like literally. The place is bang mediocre and the only reason people even consider it is either because of Mumbai+low fees factor or their nepo kids who have no ambition or need to study the law the hard way.

What makes you think or even assume he would leak that email despite being at the firm himself? Easy to jump to such conclusions on a gossip platform - right?? There are multiple other associates marked on the thread, some of which have no remarks on themselves - they could have very well leaked it. If he/the other two subjects leaked it - they would have redacted their own names ffs. This has clearly been leaked because some other associate wanted to mock the ones marked/ show to a friend and then it spread like a wildfire. Stop further berating the subjects here ffs

It feels like a personal loss for some reason. He was one of us(I am not from Nls)but he was one of us, he might have had the same aspirations and dreams that we have.

I have made a new account especially for this purpose so if anyone needs a friend to talk, please reach out on: curiousamicus@gmail.com

OP here. I should have been more specific, by magic circle I meant prestigious UK law firms. I have no interest in US firms as they don't have a work life balance.

So in such a situation will you still advise for a US LLM or a UK LLM? Or should I take some other steps like doing a BCL/LLB equivalent from UK?