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I'll go first, does not seem very encouraging for Luthra. A friend in S&P is feeling worse though. :P
Will LI just come crashing down one day as kian cannot keep up to pay server and moderator money.
What can we do to preserve this website? Can we take some initiative to archive legally india? LI existing in the long run is even beneficial for researchers and even upcoming generations to know how law firms were back in the day.
Who runs Lutthra now? What's the succession plan for the firm. Unlike in Amarchand/traditional law firms, Rajiv doesn't have kids/family members who are old enough to run a law firm.
How's the partnership being held - has there been a division in the equity?
What's the future plans?
As an employee how do you feel working in Luthra now?
Also, surprisingly - the firm is still punching despite all the issues it faced. Should this whole phase be a case study for other professional Organisations ran by a single founder.
Can someone please provide an update on the PPO/assessment internship scene at the Bengaluru office of Fox Mandal? Also, can someone please tell what all should an intern do in order to get a PPO at Fox Mandal, Bengaluru. Also is every internship at FM an assessment internship?
Thank you!!!
Too many turns of bad behaviour being accepted.
I am sure you have career aspirations so you are tolerating it but have your dignity first. Ambition later.
As Rajnikant says:
mind it!
Harass me once shame on you harass me many times, shame on me.
-
From a woman who is partly sympathetic
So I thought performing the internships in the morning and attending LC1 in the afternoon would be perfect. But I don't know if that is doable since I lack the on ground level knowledge on how aspects would be once I join as in will I be able to manage?
Whereas one of my peers mentioned that choosing CLC would not only give you the brand value but also furnish you with a better academic environment due to the crème de la crème. Also the person says theory> practical exposure must be your go to game while in college.
But my counter to it would be that organisations would consider to imbibe you more into their ecosystem as a student rather than a fresh graduate out of college. On a relative scale the opportunities open up more for a student.
If Modi returns for a third term (also, his final term) as PM, he will certainly open Indian legal market (in real sense) for the world.
Also yes, JSA has really bad management comparable to Lala firms like CAM. Also, 1 crore a year is not really a lot considering how comparatively less the many many A0s, A1s and A2s are billing and the pay of course. Also really 1 crore isn't much for a billing when firms like even S&R are billing much more at junior levels.
I really think students should strongly consider S&R and IndusLaw, these seem like really Tier 1 gold standard firms in terms of everything. Maybe the Tier 1 narrative and the corrupt accolades are not letting them achieve name tho.
Thought getting placed was hard, but here I am, with a job offer (wfh) for an M&A PE VC role- A0, with a decent work life balance!
Cheers to everyone out here! And for all those who are losing faith, things do get better!
Thanks LI!
And don't even get me started on Tier 3/Tier 4 NLUs- an absolute waste of time and money. They should all be de-recognized by BCI!!
1- Most of these promotions are to non-equity partnership. So glorified PAs to Senior Partners. This is done based on seniority and not business brought in.
2- Can you stop attaching and attributing the college name to every accomplishment in life, you know how degrading it seems. All these people accomplished this on their own merit (or networks/ contacts) 10 years AFTER graduation. Trust me, law school doesnt even prepare you for A0 promotions.
3- NLUJ and NLIU are Tier 2 NLUs, check their alumni base in SCAM/ AZB/ KCO/ Trilegal
4- Placements has nothing to do with the number of partners in a firm. It is the students own accomplishment. Based on internships alone, I have seen GNLU and NUJS students to be more attentive, interested and focused than NALSAR/ NLS students who think that tag sets them apart in any way (it doesnt). Any Partner taking interviews can vouch this difference. But this is slowly degrading in the last 1-2 years, where 80% people literally show up with profiles showing no interest or inclination to work. Consequently firms will move down the ladder. Firms are not hiring subject experts, we need employees who will sit on their seat and analyse documents and help Partners with legal advice.
5- (Rebut Point 4)- Please check the number of equity partners from NLS and NALSAR in "domestic law firms". Please check for GLC grads in academic/ policy and research.
6- NLUD never deserved to call themselves top 3 LOL. And don't cite NIRF ranks FGS.
7- yes colleges don't matter, which invalidates your entire point really.
For ECM/ DCM here's where you should apply-
London- Top class diversified CM practice areas- A&O and Linklaters (Singapore handles International law advisory on Indian transactions)
India
1- IndusLaw, S&R, SAM- These are absolute Tier 1 in terms of CM and the work they do. Indus works hybrid and gives great emphasis to work life balance, it is comparable to A&O abroad. But I would say S&R CM is class apart and if you do get to intern, look nowhere else and work for them.
2- CAM, Rajani Associates, JSA, TT&A -These come at the next level. I would advise you to seriously consider Rajani due to the great learning experience under Ms. Sangeeta who is probably one of the best ECM Partners in India. I would also advise you not to try CAM, as they will kill your will to live. TT&A seems kinda shady, Id say be wary.
3- Khaitan (Manisha Shroff- Debt), SNG Partners (Debt), Crawford Bayley- Will ask you to seriously consider SNG due to the great learning experience.
The rest of the firms have a dead CM practice, do not apply unless you want to beautify your CV. Also please do not apply to LL and SP as they have all dead practices and no client is trusting them. Clients reject them, they reject you. Avoid. Also try to avoid C--.
I was also on a call with ▮▮▮, where ▮▮▮ asked me which college I am from. This was AFTER ▮▮▮ rejected the application, which means ▮▮▮ didn't even open the CV nor read the mail, where I have highlighted this (top 3 NLU) in bold. My batch rank is also in the Top 10, and I have 4 internships (Tier 2s and Boutique) in ECM, but ▮▮▮ didn't even "consider" my application.
With context- I applied with a contact. One client (mentioned below) and one regional head reference.
Kaisa firm hai bhai, I literally spoke to clients (LIC, Nykaa, Macrotech promoters, IIFL, GSS and JMF lead managers) who are my relatives, they say Cam does the most shoddy (read shady) work ever but undercuts prices, which is actually not worth their work. Have heard from associates, that they also undercut salaries and treats them as slaves.
It seems I dodged a bullet. But I absolutely hate that ▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮▮, how rudely ▮▮▮ responded on call as if I am disturbing ▮▮▮ and not enquiring about my literal career and asked about the college, which I even mentioned in the Subject of that mail. And yes this was after a Regional head reference and client reference, so got a response in 2 days.
And no I am not a novice to the shady business of unpaid internships in Indian law firms. I have interned at consulting firms, an investment bank as well as a large PE Fund. I have secured internships at other Tier 1 firms (JSA, SAM, Indus) only based on merit without mentioning the clients I have known nor mentioning the out of law internships, just the 2 tier 2s and 4 boutique ones. But the HRs have been diligent in evaluating the applications and even very professional (and sweet) on calls and also providing confirmation in 4-5 weeks.
(Also, I have not subscribed to the placement cell of my College due to the absolutely dirty politics)
suggestions?
Anyway, the point is that we are all sitting ducks for heart diseases as we work 14 hours a day and don't get exercise, plus face a lot of stress and pressure. On top of that, the average "law firm diet" seems to be Domino's cheese pizza, Big Mac, Coke and 6 cups of coffee a day. So is it time that law firms carry out free health check-ups for employees every 2 months?
Lol.
Does experience not matter?
Also, they have one of the worst PPO policies possible. They will not brief you about anything whatsoever. You will remain clueless about your salary structure till the time you actually receive that in the account. Even the offer letter they share doesn't contain the salary structure. When you try to ask HR about the same, he/ she themselves is not sure and this is after you have actually joined. Additionally, they will pay you peanuts till the time you actually get your bar registration done.
Moreover, the Delhi office is one of the most toxic places to work. I kid you not, but Tier 1s like CAM, SAM, and Trilegal are way better to work (Obviously in degrees comparison) than this place.
Employers who oppose this need to have their head on a spike.
All available evidence suggests that NLSIU gave themselves the title "Harvard of the East". There isn't a shred evidence to suggest that it was coined by an eminent jurist or politician. Yet, they casually use this boastful title as if it's an accepted truth, like the sky being blue. We now have a top Senior Advocate alum like Sanjoy Ghose using the title, which is a very big deal. In reality, NLSIU has been outdone on Rhodes scholarships and placements by other NLUs in the past few years. Furthermore, the nickname "Harvard of the East" is blatantly inaccurate because there are many law schools in Asia ranked ahead of NLSIU in the QS rankings in law (which ranks NLSIU in the lowly 201-250 bracket). Even Jindal is ranked higher than NLSIU in the QS rankings! Here is the full Asia-wise ranking from the top 100 alone:
NUS Singapore (12)
Tokyo University (19)
Hong Kong University (25)
Peking University (28)
Tsinghua University (29)
Seoul National University (45)
Renmin University (47)
Chinese University of Hong Kong (53)
Wuhan University (65)
Zhejiang University (65)
National Taiwan University (69)
Fudan University (76)
Kyoto University (78)
Shanghai Jiao Tong University (82)
City University of Hong Kong (84)
JGLS (84)
Waseda University (92)
Yonsei University (94)
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2023/law-legal-studies
Now, how can NLSIU still claim to be the Harvard of the East? Are they better than NUS Singapore, HKU Hong Kong, Tokyo University, Seoul University etc? These universities are in first-world countries with massive research budgets and top scholars. In terms of alumni achievements, their alumni have outperformed NLSIU. Tokyo University law faculty has produced a PM and Nobel laureate (Eisaku Sato), while I'm pretty sure NUS and HKU have secured more foreign law firm offers. Granted that NLSIU has won Jessup twice, but that alone can't justify the nickname!
Thus, NLSIU should stop using the title or, at the very least, change the title to "Harvard of India". Websites like B&B should also stop ass-licking and blindly reproduce the title.
Even now, he doesn't address ▮▮▮ of how iPleaders misled people by marketing their courses as "UGC Recognised" using the NUJS brand name. This guy is like ▮▮▮
I don't know a lot of people from law background and my profs. are least bothered. So, I would really appreciate if you would like to help.
https://spicyip.com/2007/03/mashelkar-committee-report-and-industry.html
"Had Sudhir patiently read my paper, dug a little deeper and assessed the overall situation with more objective eyes, he might not have jumped to this perverse conclusion that my paper represented “concerns of a particular interest group”.... Perhaps for an academic who feels left out of the whole debate, this stems out of a desperate need to make his/her voice felt in some way. ... As opposed to others, who may feel left out of the whole debate and resort to fancy terms like “industry capture” to make themselves heard. If there is anything that deserves “moral censure” (again a term used in Sudhir’s article), it is precisely this sort of a publicity stunt that lacks rigorous analysis and is informed less by logic and more by shoddy investigation."
I understand connections do help, but the placement procedures are solely done by the HR, and even partner references are not factored in. Such people are given PPOs without internships.
It's also a valid point that he is where he is only because MP Singh fast-tracked his career at NUJS and saved him 7 to 10 years of being in a junior rank. Sudhir pretends that he never taught there.
Okay, nil practices are interesting. They become interesting when you work with the brightest minds, develop expertise, and than the brightest minds seek your counsel.
Regards
Shubham
https://www.reddit.com/r/JEENEETards/comments/13z93bf/an_avg_hostel_room_in_iitb_is_smaller_in_size/?rdt=54618
I avoid sleeping with tea, walks, proper nutrition and excitement at the job.
Cheers.
Han bhai tabhi Jindal se 10% students place hote hai aur NLS/NUJS se almost 100%. [This year was an exception, I am sure that the numbers at Jiggles hasn't crossed 30 (Including PPOs)]
45 People placed (Including PPOs)/70
Please add the numbers for other law schools as well!
NLS - 20/55 placements
NALSAR - 25/70 placements
NUJS - 15-20/ (fill me in here)
NLUJ - 27/73 students
What is the scenario, why is this happening?
Ya koi Allahabad Univ se hai?
Only 4.6% of TCs are awarded to graduates from non-UK, universities. I’m guessing the US, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong and Canada would outnumber India here and Indian universities would probably get just about 1% at most, nosing ahead of New Zealand and South Africa . In contrast, just 10 or 12 Russell Group universities get nearly 75% of all TCs. Even non-Russell Group universities like Sussex or UEA get 1% of all TCs each, which is perhaps more than all NLUs combined!
So why do LI readers repeatedly discourage those doing LLBs in the UK with sarcastic comments and insist that it is better to study at NLUs, even GLC? Is it just jealousy from 18-25 year olds (the majority demographic on LI) or genuine pearls of wisdom from experienced lawyers? Further, after obtaining a UK LLB one can do a bridge course from an NLU or stay on in the UK and train as a barrister. And one can still pursue options like an MBA, LLM/PhD etc.
So why the hate exactly?
Ramanuj and iPleaders have won their arbitration against NUJS. What a landmark day. He's fully vindicated now.
But what is also true is that seniors or relatively experienced advocates in these cities are stingy as f***.
Juniors are often paid lesser than daily wage labourers and it becomes a test of endurance - who can last longer and build a practice parallely. Sometimes pay is as low as 8-10K a month in tier 3 cities. If its a lawyer with a student loan / family responsibility and building a practice is'nt working out, they'll stick around longer to support and end up being more exploited.
Advice someone shared - only stick with a senior until as long as essential. Always try to set up on your own ASAP. Goes a long way.
Curious - heard that some seniors pay a couple of thousands extra for each matter (hearing) a junior assists on. Is this indeed a practice or just a hoax?
Recently, I have taken a break from Practice to study for competitive exam but I am actively engaged in research related tasks.
A consultant was advising me to join a Law firm and get employed as it can be an issue to show Litigation as an Experience. What do you all think of it ?
Also, I have advised and helped some startups on random things like Contract advisory, Compliance related work, Product development and a bit of marketing as well.
Apart from that considering I have 1 more year to give into the field. What will be the most effective approach and practical steps I can take to further enhance my profile and increase my marketability. ?
PS: Came back after a long time and want to wanted to express my gratitude towards LI. It is unlike other platforms (so full of options and unnecessary UI things), feels like I am really a part of a community where real people share their true opinions.
Still, in the meantime if you have anything you want to talk about, we can communicate via e-mails. You and anybody reading this, who needs someone to rant to, or talk to, or just wants someone to listen to their shit can reach out to me on - maalpiyenge420@gmail.com
The other firms which are generally famous as T1s are great in multiple practice areas.