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Luthra leads NUJS Day Zero; At least 41 Noojies get jobs; College hoped to hide figures from firms

NUJS RCC member, yesterdayNUJS RCC member, yesterday

NUJS Kolkata placed at least 40 fourth year students in seven big Indian law firms on 6 April, confirmed authoritative Legally India sources, after the NUJS recruitment coordination committee (RCC) refused to disclose its statistics citing “university policy”.

The bagged jobs were a mix of Day Zero recruitments, which happened at the law school this week, and pre-placement offers (PPO) made to the fourth year students (see table below).

The tally roughly matches NUJS’ Day Zero in 2015, which had resulted in 40 domestic jobs and four foreign placements.

This year, Luthra & Luthra was the biggest recruiter, giving out 10 jobs including 7 pre-placement offers (PPOs).

Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas recruited eight students, including one through PPO. Khaitan also recruited eight students.

Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas hired six students, including three through PPOs.

Trilegal recruited five students and AZB & Partners recruited three.

J Sagar Associates (JSA) made one offer.

S&R Associates and Talwar Thakore Associates, which both rank highly on Legally India’s salary survey, have not recruited anyone from NUJS for 2017.

NUJS batch in 2015 was 106 strong, eventually placing 100 per cent out of 78 students who took part in the RCC.

As reported yesterday on Legally India, NLSIU’s 2017 batch of 81 students, with 53 participating in the RCC, placed 33 on its 2 April Day Zero, including one already-confirmed training contract with international firm Allen & Overy, as disclosed by the NLSIU RCC.

Also read: all our previous law school campus recruitment stories

Also read: Last year’s Day Zero figures at other law schools:

Nalsar Hyderabad got between 35-39 jobs on its Day Zero last year, NUJS Kolkata secured 40 jobs for its fourth years, NLSIU Bangalore’s Day Zero last year yielded 33 jobs and 4 vacation schemes, while NLU Delhi secured 20 jobs and 4 vacation schemes, NLIU Bhopal got around 22 jobs, GNLU Gandhinagar 24 jobs and NLU Jodhpur hauled in 31.

Does secrecy help recruitments?

In 2013, NUJS had first cited an administrative gag order against disclosing recruitment information, as then reported by Legally India.

A comment on Legally India yesterday, suggested that figures would not be disclosed because “the NUJS CRC does not wish for other recruiters to think that all the best students have been taken, and thus not recruit from NUJS”.

NLSIU Bangalore’s RCC from 2015 had commented last year that its policy of full disclosure had actually helped boost their recruitment tally.

In its statement NLSIU had said:

We think our policy of full disclosure with the firms really helped us build good relationships with them. We think that it makes sense for any RCC to start building relationships with firms from the 3rd year onwards, so that there is a certain amount of trust and experience between the firms and the aspirants by the time recruitments commence.

NUJS Day Zero recruitments 2016

  PPO Day Zero Total
Luthra & Luthra 7 3 10
Cyril Amarchand 1 7 8
Khaitan & Co     8
Shardul Amarchand 3 3 6
Trilegal     5
AZB     3
JSA     1
Total:     41
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By reading the comments you agree that they are the (often anonymous) personal views and opinions of readers, which may be biased and unreliable, and for which Legally India therefore has no liability. If you believe a comment is inappropriate, please click 'Report to LI' below the comment and we will review it as soon as practicable.
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Like +2 Object -1 ._. 08 Apr 16, 21:19
No Vac Schemes?...
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Like +1 Object -4 Grumpy 08 Apr 16, 22:36
Several. Kian didn't manage to sniff those out yet, or got sufficient number of anonymous comments to rely on.
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Like +3 Object -1 Vac scheme 08 Apr 16, 22:45
4 vac schemes
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Like +3 Object -1 Confirmation 08 Apr 16, 21:33
@Kian can you please confirm whether these figures are offers or acceptances? Often in Day Zero we see that there are lot of offers from firms during day zero but due to cross offers from different firms the number of acceptances are much low compared to offers. I think these figures are of offers and not acceptances. Please confirm the same Kian
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Like +9 Object -1 Anonymouse 08 Apr 16, 22:08  interesting
Silly and far-fetched strategy to secure 100% placement. That said, I think this article could've done without the preachy NLSIU quote, I'm critiquing it because it's a free country. Good Luck to everyone hoping to secure jobs within the year.
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Like +2 Object -2 Agree 09 Apr 16, 12:03
That's just NLS being cute I guess. They're right, and Kian reached out to them to help make his point, so why not?

As someone who recruits on behalf of one of the top tier national firms, I can say without any doubt that we're all aware that the "best" students are taken in PPOs or vacation schemes. But with some law schools, NUJS included, there's a lot of people still worth hiring, so we make the trip on day zero. I think a lot of the second tier national firms will think similarly, but not if this information is hidden from the till they show up to campus
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Like +8 Object -6 Alias 08 Apr 16, 22:30  controversial
BC, pehle maths seekh lo. Adds up to 31 not 41.
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Like +2 Object -1 Hi 08 Apr 16, 23:52
I dont know if the article was edited but the total seems correct.
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Like +0 Object -0 content writer X 09 Apr 16, 12:33
Don't worry...had made that part on excel...
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Like +0 Object -0 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 13:44
No, it hasn't been edited. (there's a typo still in that headline says 41 and lead says only 40. But am afraid of correcting it in case people start smelling a conspiracy :)
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Like +1 Object -3 Nobody 08 Apr 16, 22:35
What about the NLU-J day zero figures?
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Like +35 Object -5 Outsider 08 Apr 16, 22:36  interesting  top rated  controversial
Kian, this is actually a rather irresponsible heading. Simply because NUJS CRC 2016 did not send to you a full list including all the details of Day Zero, you cannot conclude from there (apparently based on anonymous solitary comment) that they are trying to hide the figures from firms. Sensationalism is expected from media, but sticking to facts might have been better, right? It is the prerogative of the CRC not to disclose Day Zero results before recruitment for a batch is complete. If even after that, they refuse to divulge, then perhaps you can make such comments, although even then it may be perspicacious.
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Like +29 Object -2 Noojie 08 Apr 16, 22:44  interesting  top rated
Can't help but laugh at this article. and plus what is with the caustic title? shoddy journalism.
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Like +21 Object -3 Disappointed_reader 08 Apr 16, 22:47  interesting  top rated
Legally India, a more dignified manner of reporting is always expected. Especially the gifs. Please open an alternative opinion blog for such discussions, than reducing the reputed website. Such unnecessary aggression is unbecoming of a news report. It can be really unnerving to see completely inaccruate reporting coupled with allegations without any substantiation or sources. This is true for all your recent articles. Hoping for improvement.
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Like +24 Object -0 Some friendly advice 08 Apr 16, 22:58  interesting  top rated
The figures are incorrect and should not be relied on. Additionally, I am really disappointed with the tone of this article. The headline is condemnable as there is little basis for you to attribute that particular intention for the refusal to release figures in the absence of a statement to that affect. You have speculated on figures and then speculated on intentions for refusing to share them with you, while attempting to pass it off as news. If you expect this website to be seen as a credible news source, you should probably refrain from misreporting figures and drafting hate notes for those who don't do your bidding.
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Like +3 Object -0 Hi 10 Apr 16, 19:34
Completely agree. Of late, LI has resorted to sensationalism rather than focusing on the story and being responsible.

I recall the story on partnerships where LI tried to rely on dated survey to paint an untrue picture. Kian did come out with a "kind of" apology, but then he probabl had no other option given the brickbats thrown at the story.

Come on Kian, we expect better froM you and LI.
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Like +18 Object -0 Disappointed_reader 08 Apr 16, 23:04  interesting  top rated
Always expect a dignified fashion of reporting from Legally India but the writing and reporting on this one is just aggressive and unbecoming of a news report. While the college has not released any figures due to policy, such a scathing article making unsubstantiated claims and allegations is truly disappointing from Legally India. From my knowledge as a student at the University, the figures are completely inaccurate as well. Please refrain from sensational headlines and especially gifs. You may open an opinion blog for such gimmicks, please remove them from responsible journalism.
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Like +17 Object -0 Shameless 08 Apr 16, 23:28  interesting  top rated
This is shameless, LI.

Just to get your hands on news, you can't report incorrect facts (which acts a bait for the recruitment committee) to get you facts.

Why can't you respect a 'policy' a University might have?

Also, the comment on Legally India “the NUJS CRC does not wish for other recruiters to think that all the best students have been taken, and thus not recruit from NUJS” is just speculative, right? Could actually be from anyone!
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Like +3 Object -7 Haha 09 Apr 16, 12:04
So a news outlet is expected to respect policies and not question them? Same with government policies"

Idiotic comment, typical Noojie
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Like +3 Object -2 Noojie 08 Apr 16, 23:42
"Why is it that every year one RCC (mostly NUJS) decides to be all cloak and daggers and behave as opaque as their administration?

For the record, NUJS RCC has declined to provide figures despite two separate requests made.

Know this:

1. We will get 90% of the NUJS Day Zero figures anyway, whether the RCC tells us the figures or not. It might just take us a day or 2 longer.

2. If the RCC does not tell us the figures, all you're doing is making us waste some time that should be better spent reporting on opaque administrations, as NUJS students in particularly exhort us repeatedly to do.

3. Law firms aren't stupid. They know they haven't been invited for Day Zero and that the 'best' of the batch have been hired already. If you hope to keep that stuff secret from them, it's a little naive / borderline dishonest. There has also never been any correlation between us having published Day Zero and final recruitment tallies at law schools. It depends on individual merit and performance in interviews and internships after Day Zero, not deception of recruiters.

4. You are depriving aspirants from transparency while picking their law schools.

5. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too by hiding your results, yet gleefully LOL'ing at other law schools' performance, while trying to deprive them of intelligence about market sentiments and recruitment projections at law firms.

I know angry NUJS alums and students will disagree with me, and sure, RCCs have a right to make their own policy and yadiyaa, but we also have a right to disagree with those decisions and criticise the lack of common-sense logic to them.

Not expecting this to change intransigence of NUJS, though holding out hope they'll come to their senses."
Kian posted this on the nls article. Man you sure hate us. Kya paap kar diya humne bhai :P
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Like +0 Object -1 henry123 08 Apr 16, 23:42
hahaha...your math does add up
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Like +12 Object -19 kianganz 08 Apr 16, 23:44  controversial
All the figures are accurate for each law firm mentioned, since the figures have been confirmed from sources at those firms.

And we have also mentioned that they are minimum figures. The Jsa figure is an offer, which I'm not sure has been accepted.

As for the story, it is only partially about the figures - it is also about students being opaque, similar to the administration at a lot of colleges.

The reasons are the same every year and do reflect the anonymous commenter.

And every 2 years it results in the same discussion with us about rcc's somewhat arbitrary choices.

Law school students should be the first to foster an environment of transparency, particularly when there is no reason to and no way to keep such figures confidential.

Yet every other year some Rcc or other reboots that policy which literally does not have a point.

This is a call for students to work with us, rather than against us.

Make our lives easier in bringing transparency to other parts of the legal system. Please?
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Like +11 Object -10 MyPrivacyDoesNotNeedKi 09 Apr 16, 00:11  controversial
Dear Sir,

With all due respect, I know you rely on LI for a living. But speaking rubbish doesn't make anyone respect you more.

Why should a law schools recruiting figures be public knowledge? If a certain University decides to not disclose its figures, it is doing so in the interest of its own batch. It does not want to tell you. Do you not understand what privacy means? Non-disclosure to LI about recruiting figures does not make one opaque.

Please don't say that because a University is a public institution, it should be bound to disclose absolutely everything under the sun. In that case, there should be full disclosure of notes, study material, etc of every public institution for everyone. So what's the point of taking admission at all?

You run a cheap website that will do anything for money. Your sense of ethics is zero. I hope you are able to live with yourself waking up every morning rationalizing what you would do for money with some or the other excuse.
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14.1.1
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Like +12 Object -12 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 00:50  controversial
With all due respect, the figures can be obtained from recruiters directly, which we've demonstrated again and again, every year.

Then what is the point in a law school not being forthcoming about it?

My theory is that every 2 years a new Rcc comes around and they forget what the experience of the batches coming before was and think not disclosing day zero data is a great idea, which actually works.

The data is important for prospective applicants, helping to create a situation of greater information that CLAT aspirants can use to make an educated choice about the job market and opportunities available.

It also gives an indication of the strategy of law firms, which may be expanding aggressively, etc.

Day zero is a bellwether for the rest of the year and market sentiments.

And it is important for other RCCs to establish who is recruiting and how much.

I know the incumbents like NUJS, and others older law schools would be advantaged to do all their recruitment in secret, but it is our job as journalists to establish a more level playing field, at least so far as information availability goes.

NLS has taken a leadership role in this and it should be applauded. NUJS is doing the opposite.
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14.1.1.1
Like +12 Object -0 Concerned-Student 09 Apr 16, 01:41  interesting  top rated
Concededly, the data on the number of students placed from a given batch of a college is important for prospective applicants, to form an informed opinion in respect of the recruitment prospects of that college. However, there is absolutely NO need for that information to be given immediately post the conclusion of Day Zero, which is merely the first round of recruitments, out of many. The NUJS CRC has in the past generally declared the Day Zero figures of the batch, albeit at a slightly later stage than some other law schools.

I fail to see what conceivable advantage ensues in the short period intervening between day zero and the date of disclosure of these figures. True, it might be the avowed objective of LI to facilitate the actualization of a more level playing field, but where the same can be done without prejudice to the interests of the university, albeit with a not unreasonable, and virtually inconsequential time delay, it is nefarious, not to mention, irresponsible for you to do so. With all due respect, as you're not currently (nor have you in the past been) involved in the CRC of an NLU, and therefore are likely not, nor had been privy to the multifarious conundrums, which face them, while determining the most tenable stage at which to make disclosures of this sort, it is a little bit presumptuous on your part, to impugn their decision or intentions without a valid cause, and write, what seems to be an ill-advised, and uncountenanced attempt at making an "expose" of sorts. This, and your use of an unverified comment, which purports to state the rationale behind the CRC's decision to not disclose Day Zero Figures within the time you deem desirable smacks of Yellow journalism.

Truly, I had expected better

Regards,
An outsider.
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Like +3 Object -9 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 01:59
Thanks for your considered comment and well-thought-out points.

I concede that there is a slight conflict of interest. We want to publish, RCCs might have all sorts of reasons for us not to publish (even though they know that they can't really stop us from publishing and are told that it just adds hours of nearly pointless labour to our day and the day of partners and HRs at recruiting law firms, when they have to send us those figures).

It's also definitely not intended as an expose or anything so noble - it's plain old naming and shaming, hoping that it might result in a change in policy in future years.

Day Zero is a real actual thing and it's interesting and valuable and important to all sorts of different segments of the market.

Day Zero is pointless in several weeks or months or I don't know (and those were literally the time frames the NUJS RCC suggested to us for release of numbers), and if we didn't push for Day Zeros (and final recruitment figures too), many RCCs might prefer never to disclose them unless they present their college in a glowing light.

We want to be the friend of RCCs, rather than having to play some pointless cat and mouse game every year, either begging for numbers from RCCs for weeks or laboriously reconstructing them (I'm not exaggerating on either of those two examples).
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Like +1 Object -3 Actually 09 Apr 16, 12:53
Also, if they wait 2 months from today, one more batch will have to choose a law school without this information. So yes, timing matters
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Like +0 Object -0 MyPrivacyDoesNotNeedKi 12 Apr 16, 22:36
Your potential admission to the University does not Trump the right of the students who are already in the University, you idiot
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Like +4 Object -0 anonymouse 11 Apr 16, 01:31
SO, just so we're all really clear, the above comment is your stated intent to pressurize and blackmail university RCCs with your use of your 2 bit paper for 'naming and shaming' if they do not run around making your job easier for you.

While i fully agree that you have an unfettered right to publish what you feel 'levels the playing field' in your capacity as the great self anointed leveller. I do not understand why the headline couldnt have been 'from the deeps of the amazonian rainforests, we bring to you the NUJS day zero figures'. You couldve gone on to brag that you got these figures all by your itty bitty self despite RCC reps not being available for comment. This woiuld amply let the NUJS RCC know that they were unable to keep this figures from the long arms of LI and maybe they wouldve persuaded to give up trying. However. you chose to be the agent provocateur and garnish things with that tantalizing headline and, cheeky GIF.
Considering that you are not a unintelligent, impulsive person i can only imagine this is a deliberate act to try and establish once and for all, to all concerned, by making an example out of the NUJS RCC and hence NUJS in general, that Kian the unstobbale may neither be delayed nor denied by puny students who basically 'dont get it'.

Well, let the games begin?
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Like +7 Object -1 So What 09 Apr 16, 15:26  interesting
From past practice NUJS has been forthcoming regarding its placement figures once the figures are tallied at the end of the placement season. The facts that you claim to be a bell weather have been released by NUJS RCCs in the past. This is just an attempt by you to make up a half baked story and blatant sensationalism to get clicks and $$$

Please let us know what loss would be caused to the public in case placement figures are not provided to you on day zero itself but lets say a week later.

Dont give me the cockamime story of clat aspirants and their choices, they do have a college's reputation over the past few years to make the choice on.

Kian please make peace with internal policies of institutions.
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Like +1 Object -0 err 10 Apr 16, 13:27
Why do we have to follow the NLS model? NUJS is doing great and sorry you are wrong, Kian. Its even worse that you are not accepting your mistake. But anyway reporting is all about naming and shaming and getting traction..you are doing good at that. keep it up..!
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Like +0 Object -0 Confirmation 09 Apr 16, 01:43
So basically these are the number of offers rights? The actual numbers must be less.
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Like +1 Object -0 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 02:32
Only JSA is possibly an offer (haven't yet received confirmation whether it's been accepted), all the others are acceptances according to the firms if I recall correctly.
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Like +0 Object -0 kianganz 11 Apr 16, 10:00
Have double checked with JSA - at NUJS one offer has been accepted.
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Like +10 Object -0 TYS 09 Apr 16, 12:33  interesting
"Work with us, rather than against us" !??

You are taking yourself too seriously. This is a student run placement cell and it's upto them to release their results or no. I assume they will not do anything that works against their own interests and their junior batches and so far nothing suggests that not releasing a detailed report at this stage has actually hurt anybody. If they reboot the policy often its their headache, not LIs.

The tenor of Kian's responses seems to equate non-disclosure by the students to LI as similar to the non-transparent way these law school admins operate. That's a ridiculous comparison. The bottomline seems to be that Kian is just being petty for being turned away. End of day students must and will do whatever is necessary in their own best interests, not the interests of Kian Ganz and his clientele on LI.

I do think LI and Kian in particular are getting their knickers in a twist over a non-issue. Maybe this conspiracy paranoia is due to association with a certain lady :) Or maybe Kian's watching too many spy thrillers. Either way the whole attitude of this "story" as well as the title is in poor taste.
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14.3.3
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Like +5 Object -10 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 13:49  controversial
It's their prerogative not to release, and it's our prerogative to criticise that and point out that the policy is:

a) ineffective (as we published the results anyway), and
b) not based on any empirical evidence whatsoever but just gut feeling that opacity is better than disclosure.

That's not a conspiracy but a fact.

Calling them out on it publicly is the only tool we have available. If NUJS believes so strongly that the policy is right, a silly little headline on a blog shouldn't make any difference, right? :)
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Like +6 Object -0 Noojie 11 Apr 16, 11:36  interesting
Dunno whether it will make a difference or not, but I am sorry to say this (am an ex Noojie and a fan of LI) that this headline is not only silly, its downright petty. Sometimes its best to accept a blooper when you make one.
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Like +1 Object -2 Truth shall prevail 08 Apr 16, 23:59
If a so called committe can't represent their students properly what's the point of such placements. Please look inwards before publishing such statements. The devil lies in the details.
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Like +0 Object -0 Truth shall prevail 09 Apr 16, 00:04
Figures don't represnt
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Like +7 Object -1 Another Noojie 09 Apr 16, 00:07  interesting
I do not think the RCC is trying to create a deception by not disclosing the figures. It actually is trying to prevent a deception being created in minds of the recruiters that NUJS does not offer anymore good candidates after day zero. It is not tough to understand that such a deception can occur due to high number of students being placed on Day Zero and the reports that follow. It is in the interests of the students and that is what RCC caters to and thus such a policy.

Apart from that I seriously wish that Tom Cruise was in our RPC.
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Like +1 Object -0 Little Birdie 09 Apr 16, 00:15
I heard that there were some offers made by AZB and some recruitments by ICICI bank. Not too sure though since people at NUJS are also apparently not in the loop about the exact figures.
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Like +5 Object -6 NLS 09 Apr 16, 00:27  controversial
Heard that NUJS called up our RCC to ask about our recruitment figures. Really sad that they respond to that by being so opaque. Much transparency, much wow.
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Like +2 Object -2 Concerned reader 09 Apr 16, 00:31
LOL. LI..
Your allegation about NUJS RCC bring opaque is utterly ridiculous and I personally never expected you to allege something like that....

It's not like NUJS RCC would have never released the data. LIKE EACH YEAR, not just the CLAT aspirants but also several other stakeholders, would have received the information by the end of the academic year.

From what I have noticed in several years, NUJS has always been transparent about its recruitment and has released there total recruitment scores at the end of the year (since past two years they have been posting it on there website).

As someone who has been in following these now almost for half a decade, you should have none this. And instead of giving wrong(deflated/inflated) figures, you could have just been patient.
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Like +3 Object -9 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 01:00
That sounds pretty opaque in my book, particularly if other colleges are being proactive and releasing the figures.

A case in point - if those figures are so inaccurate (and I don't think they are, other than underestimating total recruitments), then why hasn't a single RCC or batch member left a comment on here trying to correct them? Is it because no one in the batch other than the RCC knows? Or because all of NUJS believes that hiding information for the sake of it is a great idea.

I understand that NUJS has a larger batch size than NLSIU and there's some angst every year that this could be the year that NUJS fails to place everyone, as younger competition such as NLU Delhi and JGLS are soaking up more and more jobs.

I understand that some colleges may have an opaque administration, which is not naturally conducive to being open with the figures (though those policies have not been based on empirical evidence or pragmatism, but gut feeling).

Take GNLU for instance. GNLU doesn't even publish full final recruitment statistics, because the administration basically runs the recruitment activities for the students and decides about the propaganda that is shared when most convenient for the PR of the college.

That's not transparency. And while NUJS isn't nearly as bad, it's a symptom of the same malaise.
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20.1.1
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Like +0 Object -5 Actually 09 Apr 16, 12:55
End of the academic year means one more batch has to take a call on which college to go to based on a year old figures.

For example, if I know that Luthra is the number 1 recruiter from NUJS, responsible for 1/4th of the total hires, I'd run to NLU Jodhpur/NLU Delhi (i'm guessing i wouldn't even consider NUJS if i got in to NLS or NALSAR)
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20.1.2
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Like +4 Object -2 Funny 09 Apr 16, 13:02
I love the amount of angst the NUJS kids are displaying on this page, Kian. It's quite sad that they haven't really thought the policy through, because none of the comments provide any cogent justification for it. It would have been much better if they engaged on the merits of the policy (hell, even saying that they prefer that you do some work instead of having the numbers handed to you, is a better reason than they've provided).

Also, surely NUJS isn't worried that there isn't enough talent at their university for second tier law firms. Most of the work that law firms do can be done by NUJS students without thinking, while stoned or asleep. They'll be fine, and will get the 100% recruitment they care so much about, without being all secretive
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Like +4 Object -2 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 14:01
Thanks, good to hear some sensible suggestions in this thread rather than just a Kian-bashing fest (which I enjoy as much as the next guy)
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Like +3 Object -1 Headline 09 Apr 16, 01:21
Must say I am dismayed at the headline. Do you have actual proof that the Recruitment Committee were trying to hide the numbers from recruiters? Or is it based on an anonymous source in the comments section (hearsay?).

I understand that you must report facts which you get, but the headline does leave a bad taste in the mouth.
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Like +2 Object -8 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 01:25
Agree, the headline is slightly abrasive, but it's intended to be.

As for RCC's reasons: it's the same reason as in previous years - and do you know of another rational reason not to disclose figures?
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Like +2 Object -2 Concerned reader 09 Apr 16, 01:27
Kianz...You missed the point again!!
The RCC would have released the data at the end of the year when the recruitment drill would have ended.

Unlike, past times. Recruitment is not just about day zero but goes one for an year till the batch passes out.

That's the time when tell everyone, the final score.
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Like +1 Object -6 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 01:39
I think everyone got the point. Day Zero figures have a different purpose to final recruitment tallies (outlined in my comment at 14.1.1 above).

But choosing what figures to release and when is another form of opacity. Like I said above, NUJS is not as bad as GNLU, but when the figures will be made public anyway since we can obtain them from recruiters, then why does NUJS' RCC still think that the policy will have any effect, other than encouraging the publication of incomplete information?

The policy is little more than an unsuccessful attempt to control the flow of information, by hiding it behind an additional layer of obscurity.
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Like +2 Object -4 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 01:42
As an aside, timing is almost as important in news and PR, as the content itself, and manipulating timing of press announcements is exactly what professional propaganda machines of politicians and companies do.

The value of most information is intrinsically linked to the time that the information is released, and the value of Day Zero is different qualitatively to the value of final recruitments, in terms of what you can interpret from it and whom it helps.
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Like +1 Object -0 Strawman! 11 Apr 16, 01:13
What a strawman argument to equate the RPC's (there's no RCC!) decision to release their figures when they deem appropriate to behaviour of 'professional propaganda machines of politicians and companies'.

Also, what is this moral upmanship? Level playing field, transparency, 'naming-and-shaming' yada yada. When did LI get the right to decide on how to set the field and what is the disclosure norm?

You know what? This is the kind of stuff tabloids publish. Threaten to release wrong info, publish and drive up sales.
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Like +0 Object -3 kianganz 11 Apr 16, 07:23
1. We never threaten to release wrong info. If we say, don't blame us if our figures aren't 100% right, that's not the same, that's just the reality of us doing our job as best we can.

2. It's got nothing to do with tabloidism. There's no gossip value in NUJS being secretive. It is simply a ridiculous strategy and we will treat it as such.

3. We have consistently criticised such strategies by RCCs or colleges, and we'll continue doing so until things change:
NLIU secret day zero: www.legallyindia.com/Law-schools/nliu-s-top-secret-day-zero-yields-23-jobs-from-biglaw-jsa-icici-for-50-of-eligible-students
GNLU secret day zero: www.legallyindia.com/201404304660/Law-schools/gnlu-rsquo-s-secret-day-zero
GNLU hides final recruitment tally: www.legallyindia.com/201409235087/Law-schools/gnlu-keeps-placement-statistics-secret
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Like +7 Object -2 Reader 09 Apr 16, 01:46  interesting
Sad to feel that now legally India has become a stupid blog like scoop whoop which presents personal opinions of people and is not journalism per se. If you call this journalism and think that putting up a news which is clearly filled with hatred towards a particular institution is ethical then I'm wondering what people like you are being paid for. The headline and the news sounds like the institution has done something personally offensive to you. Disgusting journalism
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Like +12 Object -0 lol@kianz 09 Apr 16, 02:05  interesting  top rated
As an avid reader of LI and usually quite happy with the content on the page, I must say such a headline coupled with such an abrasive,unnecessary and malicious post is completely unwarranted.
Let the other side of the story also be heard. Stop trying to portray yourself as the beacon of transparency which the law school system needs (as per your utterly incompetent understanding and largely outside the fence understanding of it). The only reason Legally India is so desperate to get these figures is not to bring transparency into the system but so you can get your scoop and be the first to report these figures to increase your viewership. This is evident from the way you try to gather your information. A couple of my friends in NUJS tell me you even threatened to post untrue figures on your website in the hopes that this would pressurize them into revealing the figures.

Having said this, the following points seem quite pertinent to me.

1) You have quoted a RCC member and are backing it up by saying "there is no other rational reason to not disclose figures" - To me, this smells of desperation and attribution of false statements to individuals in pursuance of a personal agenda.

2) The headline - In extreme bad taste, click-bait of the highest order, and completely false.

3) The figures themselves - Your authoritative sources are not the firms, as you so claim. If it were so, these figures would be accurate and not way off the mark on multiple counts.

4)The GIF - Childish, and displays your lack of journalistic integrity, which is quite surprising since you seem to be a vocal advocate of integrity and transparency.


In conclusion, please try to respond to this with actual answers to the actual points, not your deflection and incomprehensible logic.
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Like +3 Object -6 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 02:18
I guess the headline worked in at least causing students to take notice of what we perceive is an issue. Please don't take it personally.

a) We have absolutely not threatened to post untrue figures on our website. We may say that if the RCC doesn't cooperate, they can't complain afterwards if figures are slightly off, but that's just a basic fact of PR: if you don't engage with a publication despite their best efforts or give inputs when offered, don't be surprised if you don't like the story.

1. Please give another rational reason for why an RCC would not disclose it. We probably have more experience of RCCs than most commenters, considering that we've been doing this for nearly seven years. We know RCCs concerns and the way they work pretty well by now (unlike RCCs that rely on knowledge passed down from their seniors).

2. If the headline is false, then please explain the truth as you perceive it. And yes, it is unashamedly clickbait.

3. They are actually from the firms - you can ask them if you like (or correct our figures, which still no one has been able to do). If figures are off the mark, it's because our sources in firms, which range from partners who were there, to HRs, to managing partners, may have misremembered or there's been some other miscommunication. Please prove me wrong and we'll happily issue a correction.

4. Yes, but the GIF was damn fun.

Would be grateful if you could respond to me with actual facts and answers to my questions, rather than ad hominem.

That said, I love you guys, including Noojies. I just wish working with you was a little easier sometimes. :)

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Like +5 Object -1 TYS 09 Apr 16, 12:48
The only thing this piece did is to show what a small minded chap you are, and mean spirited.

I'm not a particular fan of NUJS (not my alma) but targeting kids is pretty cheap IMO, a low stunt even by your standards. Time you introspected why nearly every comment here terms you a POS. I concur.

Sticking to Firstpost and B&B from now on.
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Like +1 Object -1 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 13:59
And LI loses yet another reader to Firstpost... xx
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Like +1 Object -2 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 03:26
One additional point I forgot to address. You said:

Quote:
The only reason Legally India is so desperate to get these figures is not to bring transparency into the system but so you can get your scoop and be the first to report these figures to increase your viewership. This is evident from the way you try to gather your information.
While we love scoops, in this case the opposite is actually true. When law schools are opaque, it is actually EASIER for us to get scoops, since we will do the legwork that other publications don't do (do you see anyone else having covered our NUJS figures yet - me neither).

The problem with scooping it as we did here, is that they take a lot of editorial time that should really be better spent elsewhere, rather than collecting data from 10-odd law firm partners and HRs...
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Like +0 Object -0 green lantern 09 Apr 16, 02:51
a break up of salary structures across will be informative and great reading.
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Like +0 Object -1 NLIU ALUM 09 Apr 16, 03:45
Come on NLIU... can we compete or is our admin still screwing around with October recruitment when all top firms recruit n nothing is left for us? Does NLIU any brains or are they still throwing stupid attitude screwing students future? I may be in a top tier firm but is our college restricting the possibility of others by throwing attitude n doing nothing? No worth but just throw attitude. Instead of 10 cos of the delay a firm picks 5 from NLIU. Is the admin still stupid n blind. They were in my time n they still seem stupid. Please wake up Ms. Recruitment head n Director sir. U screwed us n screwing our juniors. Who knows who appointed them. Please keep recruitment time as others. U cannot keep forcing people to join lit especially those who wish to join firms. NLIU sukhs. My firm is trying to recruit but NLIU isn't calling. Hope eyes open. Throw your bloody attitude aside. Your attitude even made luthra not visit. You throw crappy attitude n screw students life. Please make pease with luthra. Our colleges future doesn't need to pay price of your past issues!! N invite luthra with open arms!!
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Like +1 Object -0 Reply! 09 Apr 16, 10:44
You're not even an Alum of NLIU. Had you been, there's no such policy anymore. Further, AZB and Luthta have come this year, and the final date for the placements is 30th April.
Pretenting yourself to be an NLIUite and shitting on it to naie others believe under the cloak of anonymity is something shitty law schools' students do, because they don't have the balls to come forward and say their name, just like you! :*
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Like +0 Object -2 NLIU ALUM 09 Apr 16, 03:55
Dear Ms. Raka (placement in charge)

If you are still in charge can you stop screwing around with our kids and keep your ego aside. Can you please invite luthra and get our kids placed? You screwed our lives n I do not wish you spoil the lives of our juniors. You are not above a firm and our alum are doing well at luthra can you just invite them n stop the crap of the past?
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Like +0 Object -0 Reply! 09 Apr 16, 10:47
Mr. fake alumni,

When you don't know about the policy, don't even talk about it. If you are actually an Alumnus, you would've known that, as per the latest release of the policy, Raka ma'am has said that, she has passed "every" work on to students, and administration is not interfering. Had you been a true alumnus, you would've known about this Notice.
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Like +3 Object -0 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 11:40
That's wonderful that NLIU admin has decided to trust students with the Rcc work.

The figures we got so far for NLIU are:

Cam 8, Khaitan 5, Trilegal 5. Sam we haven't been able to confirm NLIU figures yet, but Luthra we have been told that they haven't recruited anyone from NLIU yet.

Could someone please confirm? Also, would be really great if the NLIU Rcc could reach out and give me a call informally - we haven't been in touch with nliu RCCS much in precious years due to admin tight rein on the process.
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Like +1 Object -0 You have no clue 09 Apr 16, 13:06
NLIU day zero took place in March, what were you smoking then?
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Like +0 Object -0 ! 09 Apr 16, 14:12
Dear the guy/girl with a clue, Day zero didn't take place in March.
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Like +4 Object -1 Really 09 Apr 16, 15:42
So what was organised on 31 March and 1 April when 4 firms came and hired 15 odd students!! Your swayamwar??
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Like +0 Object -2 NLIU ALUM 09 Apr 16, 04:01
Is NLIU still spoiling their students life with OCtober November recruitments? NLIU finds ways to spoil their students life. Let all colleges recruit then invite the firms. How stupid. I feel ashamed. We have so many partners in top firms and do well in life but the recruitment in charge and others screw our lives. Now too I am sure they kept day 0 after all other universities
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Like +0 Object -0 Reply! 09 Apr 16, 10:49
Just because no one is talking about NLIU and shittig with NUJS doesn't mean that you'll pull another shit out of NLIU when you can't even pretent to be a graduate of NLIU, let alone to be actually an alumnus!
May you fail in all your endeavours! :)
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Like +0 Object -0 Another Alum 09 Apr 16, 14:36
Seems that it was so bad that we have no idea of what happened!! It's sad how NLIU still has its placements.
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Like +0 Object -0 @Another Alum 09 Apr 16, 15:28
It's sad that you still have time to pull out a shit despite the fact that you didn't get placed.
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Like +2 Object -0 All credit to students 09 Apr 16, 09:06
These are very good figures. The fact that such success can be attained despite an incompetent VC shows how brilliant the students are.

And Kian your headline in very unfair. There are many things that deserve criticism at NUJS, eg the medieval VC, the refusal to reach out to alumni, and the quality of faculty members like AK Poddar, who wrote this infamous article docs.google.com/a/nujs.edu/file/d/0B4XaA30casoDaWlRWXl3ak90QWs/edit?pli=1

But this development deserves praise, not criticism. You are silent in things at NUJS that need criticism, but you are criticising things that are perfectly fine!
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Like +1 Object -0 Concerned reader 09 Apr 16, 12:39
Kianzz..

Now since you have already published the news and have proclaimed that your figures are right.

Then let just wait for the NUJS RCC to come out with the final stat by the end of this year.
And once it is out, trust me:

A. You will be astonished after looking at the figure.
B. It will be evidently clear as to how desperate and misleading your reporting is! Not just with regard to the final numbers that you claim to be true but also your point of view as to how it is pointless to publish day zero figures including final figures at the end of the year.
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Like +2 Object -4 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 13:53
I continue to find it quite amusing that not a single person seems to know the figures but just has blind belief that at the end of the year the stats will "astonish" us.

How exactly? I (and others) would only be astonished if NUJS does *not* have 100% placement.
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Like +2 Object -0 anon454 10 Apr 16, 01:39
What fecking gobshite! At the end of year will NUJS RCC publish a separate list indicating as to how many of the people on that list got recruited by 10th April and how many secured jobs after that, if not, which you know is the case, stop being a douche and start thinking before putting a comment over here.
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Like +0 Object -1 AZB 09 Apr 16, 16:13
AZB has recruited 3 at NUJS. Plz update ur figures n tally.
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31.1
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Like +1 Object -1 kianganz 09 Apr 16, 16:18
Thanks, but Azb is already reflected in our table with 3.

You seem to at least know some day 0 data though - can you share if there is anything else that's inaccurate in our published figures?

I'm sure we missed out some vac schemes and maybe a company or so, or maybe a few PPOs?
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Like +6 Object -0 MakingSenseOfThisMess 10 Apr 16, 12:27  interesting
Hi,

So just thought I'd add a couple of more thoughts to this discussion. Don't know if they've already been discussed given that I don't have the patience to read every single comment. I don't know anyone at Legally India and nor do I have any desire to vent my frustrations on a website which I myself have used time and again for a variety of reasons. However, I do know the current and past NUJS RCCs. So what I hope to do here is add some perspective to this discussion:

1. This article has some obvious merits. Transparency, greater access to proper information regarding recruitment stats at NUJS for CLAT aspirants etc. etc. But the fact remains that the policy that seeks to so vehemently criticize is something that they have not been involved in framing. Neither LI, nor any of the rest of the world, have actual access to the RCC's reasoning. The RCC's policy has been based on a bad past experience caused by exposes such as this one. One may offer all sorts of logic to counter why there may be no actual benefit from disclosing recruitment data later (and not just after Day Zero) but that fact is that such logic, in the past, has not translated into reality. Can one really blame the current RCC from trying to learn from a bad experience?

2. Someone mentioned above that Day Zero is a "real actual thing" and that there is no point hiding figures because LI sleuths are so good that they will uncover all details in an additional day or two. If that is true then good for LI! Wish other media had your investigative credentials. Unfortunately, your figures are still incorrect (even 4 days after NUJS' Day Zero). Further, the refusal to disclose on the part of the NUJS RCC is to protect the interests of the Batch of 2017. One cannot blatantly criticize an organization whose very mandate is to procure jobs for its batch for trying to live up to the expectations that students have from it. Hence, if LI is just doing its job by disclosing statistics, the RCC is also simply doing the same by not divulging them. If LI has access to such stats from law firm HRs themselves, the least it could do is not publish a derogatory and potentially defamatory headline which apart from being untrue, is simply a reflection of the RCC trying to do its job. LI suggests that by not disclosing such data, the RCC just makes LI's job a little tougher. The RCC doesn't owe LI anything in this regard. May be something to think about in future, rather than write an article that smacks of bias and petty vendetta.

3. The obvious harm that such an article may potentially do is cause a lack of trust. The NUJS RCC has never claimed it will not disclose figures to other firms (if asked) or in fact to the rest of the world (at a later date). The insinuations that this article makes suggest otherwise. Thus unnecessarily makes the RCC's job that much more difficult. While LI may have cause to dislike RCCs in general, there is really no justification for it to publish an article in a tone which could potentially hurt the chances of several deserving Fourth and Fifth Year law students of securing employment in the coming months. Doesn't sound like responsible journalism to me.

Not looking to incite a response of any sort from any party here... Just offering a train of thought that could possibly allow both LI and the RCC to mutually coexist without leading to controversy and ill will.
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Like +1 Object -4 kianganz 10 Apr 16, 13:21
Thanks for your reasonable comment.

You make some good points and I don't disagree in principle.

1. Like I said earlier, the RCC is entitled to have its policy, and we're entitled to criticise that policy (vehemently) as being pointless and non-transparent.

As for reasons, would you mind sharing details of "the RCC's policy has been based on a bad past experience caused by exposes such as this one"? Was it a few years ago when a law firm was upset about not having been invited to Day Zero, then saw Day Zero published on LI, and then didn't come at all? Politics between law firms and RCCs literally happens every year, and if anything, the transparency that LI has brought has given law schools greater bargaining power vis-a-vis law firms.

2. Not a single person has pointed out how these figures are inaccurate in any meaningful or substantive way. Maybe the figures are off by one or two, or we obviously missed out vacation schemes (or maybe even training contracts), but we have couched the figures above with an appropriate proviso and we are happy with our sourcing on the other figures.

If wrong figures remain published on Legally India and those hurt recruitments in any way, then it would be the responsibility of the RCC to alert us to that so we can make a correction.

3. The article was intentionally provocative, yes, but I am pretty sure it won't affect any fourth or fifth year's chances of recruitment.

I'm also aware that it may risk pissing off the NUJS RCC so much that they won't send us final recruitments, or boycott LI for all time to come in favour of another website, but it was worth the risk.

Mainly because there's a slim chance that it'll also cause them to re-look at their policy and see that it's completely pointless. And maybe in coming years RCCs will work with the legal media (even if not LI) to ensure accurate, timely and transparent information is published about the recruitment process at NUJS and at other colleges too.
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Like +3 Object -0 So What 10 Apr 16, 16:28
Kian,

Why does the RCC of any college, especially a student run- student funded RCC need to disclose anything to you or any media outlet. You may sit on your high horse and claim that your are doing some sort of service for clat aspirants but I dis-agree since day zero results do not determine how placements look at the end of the year. Last year's stats are available for any clat aspirant to make an informed decision on.

Enough with the click bait, and manufactured conspiracies. Do you plan to become the Daily Mail of legal journalism- Transfer news and click bait?

If it is clicks you are looking for- please move towards a pay-wall model- would be more than happy to pay up to read your litigation updates and articles.
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Like +1 Object -3 kianganz 11 Apr 16, 07:45
Other than the fact that your business logic does not make so much sense, I've explained above why Day Zeros are important.

Also, do you know there are colleges that aren't doing as well as NUJS? When colleges like NUJS release Day Zeros, it encourages younger colleges to do the same, and their students will have additional leverage over administration to give them the freedom, budgets and support to structure their own recruitments properly.

I know most NLUs don't care about what happens outside of their own campus, but we kind of do.
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Like +5 Object -0 MakingSenseOfThisMess 11 Apr 16, 10:40  interesting
Hi,

Unfortunately you guys at LI still don't seem to want to put yourselves in the shoes of an actual RCC trying to secure actual jobs for real people. I don't mean to be overly critical, but this entire holier than though impression that LI seeks to give off, wherein they presuppose that they know everything that transpires on a campus is irritating at best and misleading at worst. So, to set the record straight once again:

1. To get into specifics, NO, what I was alluding to in my previous comment was not the incident that you referred to. In fact, I wasn't even aware of this incident till I made enquiries yesterday, partly because every year several law firms do request invitations to Day Zero at NUJS and have to be asked to come to campus later in the year. I don't see anything underhand in a RCC taking student preferences about where they wish to work and sending out Day Zero invites based on the same (which I believe is what happened in this particular case). I believe this is what you allude to when you mean "politics between law firms and RCCs" and unfortunately in this instance I don't see how LI had any other role apart from creating unnecessary friction and making the RCC's job a little more difficult. Just to reassure everyone though, NUJS had 100% recruitment in that year and every year since (which clearly shows that despite such external interference into internal placement policy decisions the NUJS RCC is capable of doing its job).

The incident I referred to was a situation when this (www.legallyindia.com/Law-schools/new-day-zero-record-nujs-4th-years-bag-40-jobs-4-foreign-gigs-khaitan-biggest) article caused a large amount of speculation amongst law firms about whether visiting NUJS was worthwhile post such a successful Day Zero in 2015. Even after this the relevant RCC managed to secure full placement for the batch, but had to unnecessarily spend additional time and effort in convincing firms to come to campus and counteracting the damage done by their own disclosure of placement figures. Thus, as per my understanding, a decision was taken this year not to disclose figures right after Day Zero even if the batch sitting for recruitment beat the previous record. The decision was taken in overall interest of securing 100% placement as soon as possible and also due to the fact that the manner in which the NUJS RCC invites firms to campus has changed this year. Thus, the RCC decision was to disclose placement statistics slightly later in the year in order to ensure that its own job was not more difficult than it had to be.

If I remember correctly, two years ago, the NUJS RCC released a similar statement in June (www.legallyindia.com/Law-schools/2015-nujs-batch-of-106-secures-overwhelming-78-jobs-through-rcc) and LI did not kick up this big a fuss that time! Could some explanation of such double standards be provided?

2. The obvious reason as to why no one has taken the trouble to correct your figures is because no one who knows the actual number wants these figures published just yet. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, neither the RCC nor the NUJS student body owe LI anything. LI doesn't help NUJS placements in any way in any year. Its simply an informational tool. How the RCC seeks to use this tool is up to them. It seems to me that LI could simply wait till such time as the RCC deems it fit to correct these figures or publish full recruitment statistics themselves but for some reason is unwilling to do so. Till this point I have found not one cogent reason why recruitment data needs to be published the day after Day Zero. By doing so, LI is willing to hurt the primary stakeholders in this process (namely fourth and fifth year law students) while providing at best an uncertain benefit to other secondary stakeholder (namely CLAT aspirants) who have access to previous years' recruitment data and can use them to make a reasoned decision to opt for NUJS if they so desire. I believe some balancing of the scales is in order here.

Also, what most people on this thread have been trying to point out that the very EXISTENCE of this article is detrimental and not the actual figures mentioned therein.

3. I'm glad you admit that the article was intentionally provocative. I've already given you an instance where a much more innocuous article caused great difficulty to the RCC. The potential to harm recruitment is high and any responsible media outlet should understand this fact. We expect some basic level of respect for confidentiality and privacy since the RCC's job is difficult enough as it is with a batch size as large as the one at NUJS at present.

Hoping to see more restraint exercised in the future! And in light of the circumstances editing the heading of this particular article would not be amiss either.
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Like +0 Object -2 kianganz 11 Apr 16, 11:04
Thanks for your well-considered and balanced comment.

I don't disagree with you in principle on some of these points, but it still doesn't change the ground reality.

Take final recruitment figures. Before LI began, a few colleges sent fluffy nonsense PR to national newspapers which gleefully published rubbish and deceptive headlines and stories about law school recruitments, giving mostly a wrong impression to aspirants.

Since we (and, without modesty, it has primarily been LI doing the hard and dirty work on this front) began pushing for final recruitment figures from colleges, it has now fortunately become generally accepted market practice that those figures should be published transparently by a college (with the notable exception of GNLU, which wants to massage figures in light of its huge batch size).

Day Zeros are somewhere along that spectrum. We're at a cross-roads where either each college decides itself whether publishing Day Zeros are to its advantage, or they decide one year to the next, or we at LI decide not to publish any Day Zero stories at all ever, or we just to publish the ones that feel like sending them to us.

The latter approach is inconsistent, and now, for several years, when a college does not disclose the figures but others do, first we plead with them and try to use reason, and then we try to publish the numbers anyway and call them out on it (despite it wasting a lot of time and effort to do so and it upsetting RCCs every year, which also has no real advantage for us).

We have sympathy for RCCs and students wanting jobs and don't want to unfairly disadvantage them, but as independent media it is not our job to pander to their policies unreasonably either, or give one the misconceived 'advantage' of opacity but not to others.

What of the advantage that newer college RCCs get (who have it much much harder than the NUJS RCC) from Day Zero figures?

From a utilitarian perspective, Day Zeros make sense, but I am happy to argue about the microscopic in each college, and to also discuss about whether we should publish Day Zeros at all, and I will be happy to concede the point if the disadvantages outweigh the overall benefits.

But one bottom line to that discussion also has to also be that if data can come from law firms anyway, why should a college RCC want to be wilfully obtuse about it?

Footnote:
NLIU secret day zero: www.legallyindia.com/Law-schools/nliu-s-top-secret-day-zero-yields-23-jobs-from-biglaw-jsa-icici-for-50-of-eligible-students
GNLU secret day zero: www.legallyindia.com/201404304660/Law-schools/gnlu-rsquo-s-secret-day-zero
GNLU hides final recruitment tally: www.legallyindia.com/201409235087/Law-schools/gnlu-keeps-placement-statistics-secret
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Like +1 Object -0 What a comment! 11 Apr 16, 19:30
Couldn't have made more sense! Such a well-balanced comment :)
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Like +2 Object -0 Lawstudent1 10 Apr 16, 21:25
So if I understand this correctly- you are able to get the figures from all law firms correctly, which I don't doubt at all btw.

But you still keep at it with law schools to get the figures from them? What then you're trying to achieve by this is- merely saving some trouble for yourself to get the figures yourself. Really not worth the tone of this piece in my opinion.
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Like +0 Object -3 kianganz 11 Apr 16, 07:42
1. The figures we get from firms are never the complete picture. Plus, we'd only ever get Day Zeros for the top 5 or 6 colleges.

If we want to know how the rest of younger national law schools fare, before their recruitment is over and it's too late and students start hunger striking, etc, the older NLUs need to lead the way and establish a culture of transparency.

Currently, younger NLUs hide Day Zeros because the results don't look good, and NUJS hides the figures because they think figures are too good.

That's a ridiculous situation.

2. It's about a bad trend and continuing a bad precedent, based on non-existent evidence. Law firms used to be opaque in India and we had to fight hard to get basic information out of them. Some of them were very touchy about Day Zeros or final recruitments, and law schools then helped us to open them up to scrutiny, by helping us establish recruitment figures, salaries, etc. Nowadays, law firms are a lot better than they used to be.

But with administrations like NUJS and GNLU and some of the younger colleges hoping to operate in secrecy, it is little surprise students are increasingly doing the same, which doesn't just make our job harder but actually hurts legal education in general.

3. Law school figures are usually a bit more accurate than law firms', include vac placements, etc.
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Like +1 Object -0 Lawstudent1 11 Apr 16, 16:13
Then maybe we should stop saying you'll get the figures from firms anyway,and accept that you rely on students for accurate true figures.
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Like +4 Object -0 NLIUite 11 Apr 16, 02:50
Way to go NUJS. congratulations!
And to all those concerned about NLIU just you want to let you know that NLIU is getting back from the dead. Our PCC is working tirelessly. will get to see the effect of their awesome efforts pretty soon.
on a lighter note, NLIU is still the best law school of the country.
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Like +0 Object -0 Pewds 11 Apr 16, 08:04
no. banaras hindu university is!
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Like +0 Object -0 NL 15 Apr 16, 12:09
I am surprised to see that over the years the number of freshers being recruited by Khaitan from NLIU has dropped over the years and that they have this new liking for grads from NLS, Nalsar and NUJS.

I am mentioning old data but earlier, each law school had heavy recruiter, i.e., one recruiter who would recruit heavily from one university. NUJS had Amarchand (undivided), NLIU had Khaitan, Nalsar had Luthra while NLS would see half of its college go abroad. This would be because of strong alumni groups within these institutions. NLIU had and still has a very strong alumni lobby in Khaitan but the numbers are decreasing every year.
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Like +0 Object -0 General concern 15 Apr 16, 02:25
Well, the news and the comments here are worth tripping on, which a law student from the top 3 Law school does the best (Coming out from my personal experience as being an alumni of one of the so called "top" law schools in India).

Now, before writing this comment in the box there was a message from the administrator that we have to be nice and crap while writing here. Well, if the administrator expects us to be nice with our comments then it should have followed their own policy while writing this news. As the news, prima facia, sounds derogatory to the institution and puts an allegation on the "internal" policy followed by the RCC of NUJS, I don't think the writer here adhere to its own formed policy and ethics while writing the news.

The facts and figures mentioned here, as boasted by LI, is been derived from the information given by the recruiting firms, then I don't understand the point as to why the NUJS RCC has to go through a criticism, may be because it made LI make extra phone calls to the firm? Well, as can be inferred from the news and the comments of the representatives of LI it looks like this.

The question of transparency with the recruitment figure, in my opinion, is an administrative policy of the university and it is up to them to declare it or not. In my opinion, which may differ from others, NUJS shouldn't have been criticized for their internal policy. Now, the primary argument raised by LI is that they want to reveal the Day Zero figure for prospective students, well, if LI is so concerned about revealing a college to the students, when all its past recruitment stats are public, then they should put up a camera in every class and show the aspiring students the way teaching is been carried out at NUJS. Well, if the administration doesn't allow them to do so then they may issue many news on their platform stating "NUJS hides its gloomy classroom activities in order to lure innocent students for admission". In my personal opinion, what matters in an educational institution is the manner in which the students are taught and other teaching and learning methodology. Well, if LI is so concerned about the choices of aspiring students then they should rather prepare an educational bulletin stating, the academic requirements, grading system, projects, attendance requirement, co-curricular and extra-curricular activities of an institution rather than just focusing on the placement.

The news and comments here raises a graver question of the entire education system in India. The universities are now only been felt important for the number of students they place, the urge to learn at universities on a broader front seems diminishing. The shabby journalism also acts as a catalyst in doing so. I would have felt really nice if LI would have criticized NUJS for not revealing the number of students opting out of placement and going for further studies for research and development, but that doesn't concern any financial matter which nowadays is the primary concern of everyone. Also, in my opinion the British and American education system is far ahead of Indian because they (the institution and the media) run a university, not a "production unit" of "skilled manual labourers".

Note- General request from LI and the readers, don't be harsh on my comment and be "nice", as in my opening lines I have already mentioned that I am just "tripping".
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Like +0 Object -0 A concerned alumnus 20 Apr 16, 11:32
Dear Kian,
I have been following this entire NUJS debate . Given that you are a journalist, perhaps a refresher course may be in order. Journalists do not print stories they know. They print stories they know and are able to verify. I would assume that the verification would have to be from independent sources. It may be the same reason as every year but unless the CRC or another credible independent source has confirmed the intention, it is (probably) against every principle of journalism to print it as a story. I believe they have a term for it - yellow journalism.

A news story has no place for opinion. The fact that the non-disclosure is aimed at hiding figures from firms is your opinion. I believe the correct place to express opinions is the editorial and not a news article. So say what you will, your views are misplaced (in the wrong article) even though your intention may be noble.

I only hope that better sense will prevail. At times, its good to accept mistakes and rectify them.
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Like +0 Object -0 kianganz 20 Apr 16, 11:43
Thanks for your feedback. However, we gave the RCC the opportunity to comment or clarify several times why they were not sharing the data and were told "college policy".

We have our sources, prior experience, and plain logic that all support our interpretation that the RCC/college won't disclose because they have a big batch and don't want to scare off other recruiters by the fact that a large number have already been placed.

We have yet to hear *any* alternative explanation from *anyone*, whether RCC or anonymous commenters, however outlandish. So if you have an alternative explanation, please do share.

In the absence of that, we'll stand by our story.
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