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Law schools (like JGLS) lose out on Institutions of Eminence gamble, with 6 winners announced by the Centre today

Jindal loses race to be recognised,Jindal loses race to be recognised,

JGLS Sonepat has lost its investment of Rs 25 lakh toward being recognised as “Institution of Eminence” (IoE), after having failed to make the final list of Indian universities declared as IoEs by the central government.

Correction: An earlier version of this story stated that JGLS had lost Rs 1 crore toward the IoE application. The UGC will refund Rs 75 lakh out of the Rs 1 crore application fee to unsuccessful universities, the Daily Hunt had reported.

The union HRD ministry has granted IoE status today to IIT Delhi, IIT Bombay, IISc Bangalore, Manipal Academy of Higher Education, BITS Pilani and Jio Institute, reported the Express and other media.

The Empowered Expert Committee (EEC) of the ministry for the task could muster only six names instead of the originally proposed 20, from 103 total applicants. The EEC found teaching and research quality of the other applicants too low to be accorded the IoE status.

The IoEs are set to get Rs 1,000 crore each in the next five years in addition to greater autonomy. They will be free to decide their fee structure and their course structure and duration.

JGLS Sonepat had stood a chance to be the one of the only renowned law school to make it to the list of IoEs after its parent university JGU had applied for the status in September 2017 but none of the national law universities had applied. The fee for the application was hefty at Rs 1 crore, whereas most NLUs struggle to make ends meet.

Several Twitter users have complained about the selection of the six, with Rohini Mohan tweeting:

Has anyone heard of Jio Institute before? 6 #InstitutesOfEminence to get multicrore grants from govt, includes IISc, BITS Pilani, IIT Bombay. How many PhDs has Jio produced? Where is its research quoted? Does it even have a website? #ModiLovesAmbani Rohini Mohan (@rohini_mohan) Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 17:51

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1
Like +21 Object -1 Guest 09 Jul 18, 19:35  interesting  top rated
Shams keep on piling up. I have no love lost with JGLS, but Jio Institute? Really? I am sure JGLS faculty, even if a tad over-hyped are better than the latter. Also, why would the 1 crore be lost? Is this a lottery? The government should refund the fees or at least most of it to the participating institutions, the fees only serving as earnest money, nothing else.
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1.1
Like +12 Object -0 Guest 09 Jul 18, 20:12  interesting  top rated
True. If you give it to Jio, which does not even exist, then surely you can give it to Jindal as no law school is in the list, only science and engineering.
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Like +0 Object -0 mu 11 Jul 18, 19:53
Im in favour of centre funding top Nlus.We should long fr the institute of national importance tag,it will solve many probs,if any.List of univs in IoE are all science,engg, related but law university like JGLS can't stand to compare with those six.let us demand fr a 'non- science' IoE list where participating institutes offer courses in arts,humanity,law,lit etc.
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Like +4 Object -0 Bieber 09 Jul 18, 20:16
Please update your story:

1. The Rs 1 core is refundable if application not successful: timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/pu-to-compete-for-world-class-status/articleshow/60945606.cms


2. There have been tweets attacking Jio/Ambanis by far more eminent Twitteratis than the one you quoted, including the Congress Party. See below:

twitter.com/ShekharGupta/status/1016312160392114177

twitter.com/sardesairajdeep/status/1016283617515982849

twitter.com/WithCongressUP/status/1016325734279843841
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Like +4 Object -14 Guest 09 Jul 18, 20:18
You don't get to re-make the rules ex post facto. It was clearly advertised that 1 cr. was application money for consideration and none of it would be reimbursed upon a failed bid.

This was a reason why most NLUs refused to even contemplate a bid. Not suggesting that any of them stood a chance, but noting that they were realistic. However, most readers of LI - none of whom are in a position of balancing the budgets of such under-funded public institutions - were up-in-arms at the perceived lack of vision/trust and what not.

What the NLUs understood, and what this country might want to as well, is that the current political establishment is all about technical education. That is the core BJP/ABVP base - IITs and NITs, not law schools or social sciences.
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Like +11 Object -1 Guest 09 Jul 18, 21:59  interesting
The money IS refundable. Read the rules and regulations. They are on the MHRD website.

But you are right about the technical education part. Also been pointed on some news reports that this is the reason JNU, TISS etc were declined.
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Like +1 Object -1 Guest 11 Jul 18, 17:37
Not really true about technical institutes as well. ICT Mumbai was declined, as were institutes like TIFR. They claim that the latter come under specialised institutes. Wonder how IISc and IITs are not specialist institutes, though.
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Like +10 Object -5 Guest 09 Jul 18, 20:19  interesting  controversial
1,000 crore for just one university is a massive amount. Why can't the govt declare the top 10 NLUs as Institutions of National Importance and give 100 crore to each of them? As only 6 instead of 20 have got IOE status it means the govt has saved money. It is high time an agitation starts demanding National Importance status for NLUs, at par with IIT and IIM.
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Like +3 Object -0 Agitit 11 Jul 18, 16:17
High time they end their internal agitations first. Also lol at 10 NLUs deserving INI status. Top 5 deserve it at best. Can't be pretending all of them deserve it.
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Like +5 Object -0 Guest 09 Jul 18, 20:59  interesting
This goes to show that people who consider government rankings to be of any significance whatsoever, have little idea that the joke is on them. Rankings are useless. And higher education in India is fast getting to be useless too.
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Like +37 Object -2 Guest 09 Jul 18, 21:58  interesting  top rated
Ambanis wil start Jio Global Law School (JGLS) with LLM in Tax Evasion and Offshore Banking.
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Like +15 Object -1 Guest 09 Jul 18, 22:05  interesting  top rated


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Like +7 Object -13 999 10 Jul 18, 05:10  controversial
Right now, NLS is the only law school that deserves IOE or INI status. The government can designate NLS as INI now. Then, in 2030 or so revisit the issue and see if NALSAR or NLUD deserve it.
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Like +19 Object -1 Guest 10 Jul 18, 05:16  interesting  top rated
Jio Institute will be a world-class university offering these degrees:

- MA in Entire Political Science
- BA in Jumlanomics
- PhD in Gau Raksha and Lynching
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Like +7 Object -9 Guest 10 Jul 18, 09:11  controversial
"The EEC found teaching and research quality of the other applicants too low to be accorded the IoE status." - Ouch! That has got to hurt JGLS. After all the publicity and marketing everywhere including MSM and online fora about how good and 'world class' their faculty is! Hype cannot replace truth/facts, can it now?
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11.1
Like +12 Object -2 Blah blah 10 Jul 18, 11:22  interesting
There were over 100 applicants. Apart form JGLS, the ones that failed included IITs, IIMs, JNU, TISS, ISB and Ashoka. I do not believe that the poor-quality teaching/research remark was directed at these institutions or JGLS. The publications by JGLS faculty are publicly listed. While some faculty are not productive, some have published in very good international publications. So let's be critical but fair.

If JGLS deserves criticism it is on these counts:

1) Large batch sizes because of $$$$. This sacrifices student quality.

2) Many star faculty go on research leave. Among the remaining ones, one cannot be guaranteed to be taught by them as the batch size is large and there are many sections. So it's luck of the draw,

3) Overall, the faculty is heavily weighted towards public law and human rights. The Dean is a human rights scholar. Then, there are three Vice Deans who are really eminent scholars, but none of them has a law degree (a philosopher, sociologist and political scientist). Then, you have the Professor-rank faculty, who are also only human rights/public law people.
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Like +3 Object -2 Guest 10 Jul 18, 21:33
Yes, several good places got overlooked. I don't recall any of them engaging in such a robust publicity campaign or calling their faculty the very best in the country with such gusto though. That's vintage JGLS for you.
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Like +9 Object -0 Hipster 10 Jul 18, 11:06  interesting
Among the applicants were Delhi University and IIT Kharagpur. If they had got the money their law departments would have benefited, especially DU because CLC is in a mess and need a to regain its past glory. It is extremely surprising that at least IIT Kharagpur and IIT Madras did not make the list. They are already in the top 300 in the QS ranking, ahead of BITS, Manipal and of course Jio. I'm pretty sure someone will file an RTI or even a PIL.
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13
Like +4 Object -0 kianganz 10 Jul 18, 12:58 LI subscriber
Someone has just sent us this, which would be interesting if true (though it may be too early days to tell exactly when or how they will launch law): "Mint is reporting that Jio University will include a law school. Can you find out more? This means that Institute of Eminence will have a law school after all?"

www.livemint.com/Education/c4ujfEI65dTxP4lOpjFTAK/IISc-2-IITs-among-6-in-govts-institutes-of-eminence-list.html
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13.1
Like +4 Object -0 Guest 10 Jul 18, 18:43
Why not ask Cyril/Shardul if they are helping establish the law school? Quite possible they have been approached, given their proximity to Ambani.
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Like +2 Object -0 AA 10 Jul 18, 13:17
A hilarious parody account of Jio Institute has been started on Twitter

twitter.com/Jiolnstitute
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15
Like +6 Object -0 Feku Inc 10 Jul 18, 13:27  interesting


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Like +2 Object -2 Guest 10 Jul 18, 17:24
what happened to the NLU student petition seeking National Importance status???
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16.1
Like +8 Object -1 Guest 10 Jul 18, 18:12  interesting
Hawa nikal gayi, as usual.
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Like +4 Object -1 Modi is useless 10 Jul 18, 18:40




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Like +0 Object -1 Guest 11 Jul 18, 19:42
modi haters ur maibaap congress shattered the internal security.count the attacks,b4 n after 2014.

Indian intelligence infiltrated IS ring to track, arrest Afghan suicide bomber sent to hit Delhi
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Like +6 Object -6 Chachi 10 Jul 18, 18:47  controversial
I doubt that Ambani institute needs that 1000 crores. They're already budgeting for over 9000 crores. Anyway the government is saying that 1000 crores is for public institutions only. For the rest it's more a matter of autonomy from UGC. JGLS already has got it. For it, it's only the tag which mattered. Doubt whether it would have made a difference.
One needs to remember that 30 page CV only invites derison. Too many publications means quality issues. Does not matter if it's a foreign journal as the business model of many journals means that it's the author who pays. Conferences where usually undergrads are given time by Spade full for presentation of papers are also passed.
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Like +8 Object -6 Guest 10 Jul 18, 20:01  controversial
Dumb comment. Please name one prof at JGLS who has published in a predatory journal.
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Like +4 Object -9 Guest 10 Jul 18, 21:31
"The EEC found teaching and research quality of the other applicants too low to be accorded the IoE status." - Enough said! ;)
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18.1.1.1
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Like +8 Object -5 Retort 10 Jul 18, 22:28  controversial
Yes, like IIM Ahmedabad, IIT Madras, IISER, TISS, JNU and TIFR, right? Stupid troll.

FYI the institutions that applied:

theprint.in/governance/panel-scraps-shortlist-top-colleges-of-india-will-assess-all-applications-again/49020/
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Like +5 Object -6 Guest 11 Jul 18, 08:51  controversial
So just because other good institutions were given a miss, that automatically means that every institution that had been given a miss is a good institution by association? Such logical jump, much wow! Did you learn it for LSAT?
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Like +6 Object -5 Guest 10 Jul 18, 21:35  controversial
You have people teaching there who used to try to teach Jurisprudence via Pyaar ka Punchnama at their earlier colleges. Nothing more needs to be said. The only criterion of getting recruited at JGLS is a foreign degree. While that gets them some good people, the place has its share of idiots too.
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Like +3 Object -4 Guest 11 Jul 18, 09:36
I can actually name at least Assistant Professors there who has done that. But I doubt Kian will allow that.
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Like +3 Object -2 ...... 11 Jul 18, 12:32
Ok, so how about you just name the journal and not the faculty member? We can then run a search on the Jindal website and find out if you are lying or not??
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Like +2 Object -3 Guest 11 Jul 18, 14:21
What makes you think all the teachers reveal their entire publication list on the university website? Because I happen to know several who don't, across all universities.
P.s. I'm not the person who made that claim. I don't even know whether that's true. So many guests are causing confusion. :D
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Like +2 Object -3 JGLS 11 Jul 18, 19:17
And, therefore, you are a tool... QED.
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Like +2 Object -2 Guest 11 Jul 18, 19:38
Are you from JGLS? I am amazed at your profound ability to use terms like QED, even if you don't appear to be aware of its proper usage.
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Like +2 Object -4 Guest 11 Jul 18, 14:22
@All Jindalites taking offence at the developments and/or comments herein: As one of my favourite teachers at law school tended to say, PR kiya toh darna kya?
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Like +2 Object -4 JGLS 11 Jul 18, 19:19
Wow, what a cringeworthy joke! Pity the law school and the professor you refer to. It's totally clear now that you are a troll writing complete lies. Not worth wasting time on you.
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Like +2 Object -3 Guest 11 Jul 18, 19:36
@JGLS: Touchy, touchy! Actually, that comment was my first one on this thread. You probably got me confused with some of the earlier commentators. I do not happen to have any animosity towards your institution, actually, assuming you are from JGLS. In fact, I believe that among the applicant institutes, yours was probably ticking all the right boxes to get selected. So, maybe channel your anger better next time?
Incidentally, the professor whom you are taking 'pity' at happens to be one of brightest legal minds that country has to offer, at least in the field of IP, Dr. Shamnad Basheer. Maybe you have come across his name somewhere. Shows even intelligent people are not prohibited from cracking the occasional PJ. However, I'm sure he can soldier on regardless of your profound sense of hostility. And the law school happens to be a small one, established in a remote corner of Karnataka, occasionally considered the first of its kind by some. So, unclench a bit, maybe?
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Like +2 Object -3 Guest 11 Jul 18, 19:41
So why are you? Wasting time on him, I mean. Don't you have the next fake news to give to the media, like how JGLS has had the best placement of 2018 in Asia? One wonders how you folks can still appear to defend your institution in public, but not protest when it issues blatant lies. Clearly, the 40 lakhs you spend over 5 years isn't helping to inculcate a sense of justice or fairness in you.
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Like +0 Object -8 Patriot 11 Jul 18, 12:37
It seems both LI and the readers of LI are dumb Congi libtards. It is shocking that LI allows anti-Modi trolls to post comments here. Also, LI always targets this sympathetic to BJP, like Manan Mishra, Bimal Patel or Ishwar Bhat. Why no article on pro-Congi lawyers or pro-Congi profs?
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Like +0 Object -2 JioJindal 11 Jul 18, 17:35
Jindal chose the wrong party.

Lets all Jio and let Jio :P
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Like +3 Object -0 Guest 11 Jul 18, 19:51
I have a genuine question for anybody who may know the answer, are the senior research associates of JGLS considered full-time tenured teachers there? As in, all of them offer regular courses?
Kian, can you shed some light on this?
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Like +2 Object -0 answer 12 Jul 18, 11:36
they do offer regular courses, but pay is lower than faculty and u get promoted to faculty based on performance.
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Like +5 Object -2 From JGLS with love 11 Jul 18, 23:10
The 24th NLU of Jabalpur should get IOE first and then the 35th NLU coming up in Sikkim after four NLUs in MP and five more in Maharashtra :)

Guys, JGLS is three to four times bigger in size than any of the NLU you come from. Both in terms of faculty members and students of law. It's multi-disciplinary with strong schools in International Relations, Public Policy, Business and now Liberal arts and journalism.

Happy that at least one law school participated in this exercise.
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Like +1 Object -1 Guest 12 Jul 18, 11:17
You are just copy pasting the same thing in multiple threads. Everybody knows JGLS is bigger, that doesn't mean it's better. As for your 'strong' departments, it's the quality of the graduates that determines the strength of the department, not anything else. You are yet to prove that so far. And JGLS participated in the exercise because it had 1 crore of petty cash to throw away. That's nothing to brag about. Had it won, then you would have been justified to say some of this. And if the institute is so big and content that it doesn't need PR, then why does it indulge in the same so aggressively at the drop of a hat including planting false news in media about its placements? I see you have avoided answering that question rather adroitly.
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Like +1 Object -6 Guest 12 Jul 18, 11:34
To the donkeys criticising PM Modi, the scheme was open to Greenfield Institutions. Also, Mr Ambani has committed thousands of crores o the project. Isn't it a matter of great joy that a world class university is coming up in India? Why discourage it?
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Like +0 Object -0 Hee Haw 13 Jul 18, 01:19
The government is being criticized because there are several good institutions in India that are capable of becoming world class, but are being prevented from reaching their potential because UGC and CSIR are bureaucratic dinosaurs with a God complex, and they believe in quantity over quality.

For example, a 3 year engineering degree from a prestigious UK University is not recognised in India, but a 4 year degree from a no-name college, producing unemployble morons is. They stop universities and institutions from changing their syllabus or tailoring it because of teh mistaken belief that quality will suffer. They are apparently unaware of market economics which will ensure that bad colleges will fail (see the fall of engineering courses in spite of it being perhaps the most exciting field today).

Further evidence:

Delhi University has the potential for excellence. It had tried to reform its courses (they had attempted to introduce a 4-year UG degree based on the US pattern), but were made to reverse their decision by the UGC.

ISB is not recognised by the UGC because it offers a 1 year MBA, in spite of it reaching the top of the Financial Times ranking. ISB chose to retain its autonomy rather than now to the UGC, and are proudly unrecognised. However, should an ISB graduate ever wish to apply for a government job requiring an MBA or equivalent qualification, they will not be eligible to do so.

Similarly, faculty positions require at least a master's level qualification, which means, for example, entry-level professors should have completed a 2-year LLM to qualify for the NET. This disallows those who may have completed an LLM from Harvard.

Thus, many good institutions cannot become a great institution because they are forced to comply with:

- the syllabus, which is designed by the UGC.
- the faculty qualifications, which are based on conditions laid out by the UGC.
- the time to complete the degree, which is defined by the UGC.

This prevents multi-disciplinary learning, penalises precocious students who would like to complete multiple credits quickly, and prevents skilled graduates with foreign degrees from contributing to Indian academia.

Rewarding good institutions would allow them to compete globally, make their graduates more employable, and restore the prestige of these institutions and re-energise the cities they are located in.

We all know that Mr Ambani is very ambitious, and if he indeed sets his goals to creating a world-class university, it will be definitely an institution of excellence. The Ambani school is a testament to this. That said, the Jio institute does not exist. Let it be evaluated once it stands, and then be given the honour of being designated so. Meanwhile there are many others who can benefit from this designation.

It is not difficult to believe that clearly preferential treatment is being given to Jio institute, and criticism is definitely deserved.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 14 Jul 18, 15:04
@Hee Haw: Agree with everything you said, barring the point about a Harvard LL.M. UGC now recognises one year LLM including the ones from abroad and those people are allowed to appear for NET too like the others having Indian LLM. Rest what you said is true enough.
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Like +0 Object -0 Hee Haw 15 Jul 18, 01:21
Thanks for pointing this out. It seems non-recognition holds true only for a non-LLM Master's degree that last for less than 2 years.

I wish I could correct my comment.
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Like +0 Object -0 Chachi 12 Jul 18, 17:49
It's something new that I am hearing. Never knew that money alone makes an institution.
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Like +1 Object -0 Guest 14 Jul 18, 18:38
Prof Rahul Singh is devising a solid plan to get NLS in the QS ranks next year. And fo course there is the NIRF ranking. It is better for NLS and other law schools to aim for these milestones rather than Eminence status meant for big universities.
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Like +1 Object -0 Guest 14 Jul 18, 20:10
The problem is most law schools are cash starved. And neither QS ranking nor NIRF solves that. IOE status would have done that.
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Like +2 Object -0 Guest 14 Jul 18, 20:13
Rahul isn't a miracle worker. Nor is he the end-word in the administration. It is highly unlikely that NLSIU, where there has been no recruitment of teachers in over a decade, can suddenly get into QS rankings regardless of the good student performance there. A more practical plan would be one of at least 3 years, if not 5. Removal of the current VC and replacing him with someone better, younger, and with more vision would go a long way to achieve that goal, by the way.
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Like +0 Object -0 XXX 14 Jul 18, 23:21
In the IOE report (available online) the committee had suggested "Special Institution Status" for specialised institutions like IIM, ICAR, ISI etc. Had NLS applied, it would surely have made it to the list. For now, INI status is the best option to seek funding (this status is available to all IITs, NITs, IIMs and AIIMS).

As for QS and Times ranking, NLS can score highly in reputation and career outcomes, but the two remaining categories (publications and citations) depend wholly on faculty quality. For this, major changes in leadership are required, starting with the VC. Only a stellar academician can create a strong research culture. Among people living in India, Upendra Baxi and BS Chimni probably have the best international reputation and publication record, but they are quite old. Among younger people, Sudhir and Shamnad come to mind.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 15 Jul 18, 09:43
Ram Guha has an interesting take on Jindal (which apparently made it to the IOE shortlist of 40):

Among the other private universities shortlisted by the jury are those named after Ashoka, Jindal, Azim Premji and Ahmedabad. I have had professional interactions with these institutions too. They have different strengths; Jindal has the best infrastructure, Ashoka the best social science departments, Azim Premji University does research most relevant to policy issues, while Ahmedabad University has an innovatively trans-disciplinary approach to higher education. If the jury had focused more on future research potential rather than past teaching record, two among these four may have been chosen instead of BITS and MAHE.

...

My own view, as a close student of, and continuous participant in, academic life in India for more than four decades now, is that two among Ashoka, Azim Premji and Ahmedabad universities should have made this select list of six, because they have already, as it were, demonstrated proof of concept. They are up and running, have attracted outstanding full-time faculty from across India and the world, and begun teaching programmes.


www.hindustantimes.com/columns/how-not-to-promote-institutions-of-excellence/story-WSxDrOEwajPaSY6nxiL9oL.html
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 25 Jul 18, 12:44
Per media reports Jio Institute is starting a law school with 90 seats every year. Fee is 10 lakhs per annum.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 25 Jul 18, 14:32
Jio Law school, mumbai,
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