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JGU has applied for Institution of Eminence status (NLUs probably can’t)

Would JGLS beat NLUs to institutional eminence?Would JGLS beat NLUs to institutional eminence?

JGLS Sonepat stands a chance to make it to the Indian government recognised list of eminent institutions, in which none of the 22 national law universities (NLUs) may find a spot.

The OP Jindal Global University (JGU) has applied for the Institution of Eminence (IoE) status that the government had proposed to award to 20 Indian universities to be selected this year, confirmed JGLS vice chancellor Prof C Raj Kumar.

While applications by universities under the programme carry a fee of Rs 1 crore, each selected university could be awarded up to Rs 1,000 crore, according to the Times of India and other reports.

However, in respect of rumours whether national law schools too could be eligible, one NLU vice chancellor we spoke to commented: “People seem to think higher of NLUs (status) than what they actually are. NLUs aren’t even universities - [NLU as a] “university” is a fiction that they themselves have created. The UGC doesn’t even give any funding to NLUs.”

The proposal

The University Grants Commission (UGC) had, on 12 September, in its press release stated:

The Government is committed to improvement of quality of higher educational institutions. In this regard, the Government intends to establish twenty ‘Institutions of Eminence’ to achieve world class status, from amongst the existing Government/private institutions and new institutions from the private sector.

The release further stated:

The objective is to provide for greater Academic, Financial, Administrative and other regulatory autonomy to 10 public and 10 private higher educational institutions to emerge as world-class teaching and research institutions. The Institutions declared as Institutions of Eminence will be free from the usual regulatory mechanism to choose their path to become institutions of global repute with emphasis on multi disciplinary initiatives, high quality research, global best practices and international collaborations.

Eligiblity

According to the UGC’s “indicative list of parameters”, which it lists in 19 bullet points for public sector IoEs these institutes should “preferably” be multi-disciplinary, with a need-blind admission process (which requires not turning back students who secure admission purely on merit but are not financially able to bear the fee), a “good” proportion of foreign and foreign-qualified faculty and a “reasonable good” mix of Indian and foreign students, among other parameters.

The NLU VC spoken to noted that for a university to be multi-disciplinary it should have several faculties (such as the law faculty, arts faculty etc) and several departments within each faculty, so the NLUs fail to meet even the first preferred parameter listed under the UGC proposal.

It is also common knowledge that most NLUs do not have a so-called “need-blind” admissions process - a problem which creates the need for an organisation such as the Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access (IDIA) initiative to look for donors to fund the legal education of those of its scholars who secure NLU admissions through pure merit.

We have also reached out to NLSIU VC Prof Venkat Rao who did not respond to calls and messages for comment since yesterday.

JGU does have several different departments, including the law department run as JGLS. However, JGU also published on its own website a criticism of the UGC’s proposal written by its assistant director for strategy and institutional research, professor Princy George. George had criticised the proposal for potentially increasing structural inequities in the education system.

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1
Like +8 Object -1 Clarification needed 13 Dec 17, 02:05  interesting
This report is totally wrong and should be revised to clarify the following:

1. A total of 100 universities have applied for IOE status according to this report. Is LI sure that no NLU has applied???

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ugc-receives-100-applications-for-hrds-world-class-tag/1/1108752.html

2. According to the UGC notification NLUs are clerkly eligible. Please see section 2. How can you say not eligible???

3. The report says that Ashoka University has applied. This is a small university that only teaches liberal arts. How can NLUs not be eligible then???

Please clarify all this. If it is true that NLUs did not apply that is sheer negligence.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 13 Dec 17, 02:11
Prachi just post this graphic from PM Modi. It explains everything succinctly

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ2X5VSV4AIBxTO.jpg:large
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Like +3 Object -0 metallica 13 Dec 17, 02:31
Deccan Herald says that 7 univs applied fromKarnataka. NLS did not but IIM did. WTF?? NLS should have applied!

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/647787/7-state-apply-institute-eminence.html
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Like +5 Object -0 Guest 13 Dec 17, 13:16  interesting
ISB has applied. So how can NLUs not be eligible.
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Like +5 Object -1 Pi 13 Dec 17, 15:42
Unfortunately defeatist talk, like from the anonymous VC quoted by LI for this article, is the main reason in the path to recognition of NLUs as INIs or IOEs. Unless you have the confidence, or overconfidence, to punch above your weight, you shall always be consigned as a minnow. We need NLU alumni as VCs of NLUs.
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5.1
Like +8 Object -1 Guest 13 Dec 17, 18:34  interesting
Spot on. In fact, Jindal's rise is only because it has poached many alumni of top NLUs. These same people would have come to NLUs if the admin was better.
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5.1.1
Like +8 Object -3 Darkseid 13 Dec 17, 21:20  interesting
I've no beef against JGLS, but can anyone please clarify the cogent reasons behind calling its performance over, say last 5 years, as meteoric rise? What exactly has the exceptional achievement been in terms of student performance? Or for that matter, faculty research? They don't have a comparable placement even with, say, NLUJ or GNLU, their students have not come in the news for doing anything spectacular in social justice matters yet either. I mean, of course they can do so in the coming years, but what exactly is the reason for claiming that model as a success at present? Sure, they have got a host of faculties with highly impressive CVs, but this only drives home the point that a law school is only as good as its students, not faculty. Plus, NLUD ends up doing way more in terms of research output than JGLS, which hasn't come up with anything ground breaking in that field either. So, where exactly is the so called spectacular success? I would agree that they are probably doing as good as any contemporary NLU, but given the fees, they better do at least that!
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Like +2 Object -1 Lets be fair 04 Jan 18, 17:14
"What exactly has the exceptional achievement been in terms of student performance?"

Darkseid, not sure you know what you're talking about. Let's take a law school favorite - mooting - as a case study:

1. World Runners up at Vis Vienna 2017;
2. Winners of Oxford Price Media (World Rounds) in 2014 AND Runners up (World Rounds) in 2016;
3. Winner of Jessup (India) 2014-2015 and honourable mentions for their memorials and speakers in the world rounds.
4. Winner of NLS International Arbitration Moot in 2011, 2014 and 2015.
5. Winner of the Frankfurt Investment Arbitration Moot (with best speaker of finals) in 2015 and semi-finalists the year after;

(there are more ...)

"their students have not come in the news for doing anything spectacular in social justice matters yet either" - please see "JGLS Legal Aid Clinic wins 2017 Herbert Smith Community Engagement award" at http://jgu.edu.in/news/jgls-legal-aid-clinic-wins-2017-herbert-smith-community-engagement-award (NLSIU-Bangalore was a competing candidate).

"They don't have a comparable placement even with, say, NLUJ or GNLU" - JGLS students are currently working in CAM, Khaitan, SAM, AZB, NDA and other well-known firms. Not that working at top firms is the only parameter to judge a law school's placement records, but you seem to be one of those people who'd be impressed by only by such a narrow scope of analysis. FYI JGLS students have done/are currently pursuing LLMs at Oxbridge and other reputed universities.

Give JGLS a break and give credit where it's due.
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Like +0 Object -2 Darkseid 04 Jan 18, 19:50
You seem to have missed the point of what I said, not sure whether deliberately or otherwise. I never said JGLS is behind the law schools or anything in terms of its performance. None of the performances which you have mentioned, frankly, is beyond what the higher ranked NLUs have been doing over the years. Also, I'm not saying law firms are the only recruiters worth going to, but the fact remains they are the only 'campus placement indicator' available in the Indian market at present, since they (and a few companies) are the only ones who engage in campus recruitment. Comparing LL.M. successes with campus placement is not entirely accurate. The latter has a lot to do with the institute's reputation, while the former is more about individual achievement. My sole point was that a lot of people have been saying here and in other posts that the JGLS model has been an immense success, leaving the NLUs far behind in its dust. I could not see any indicator of that, even from what you mentioned. I already said it is doing as good as its contemporary law schools (where students are having similar achievements at a fraction of the cost, by the way). So I repeat, the time hasn't come yet to swear by the success achieved by this model. I have no problem with JGLS students and their achievements as such. Many of them are bright kids, who would have had similar achievements even had they been in NLUs.
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Like +1 Object -0 Lets be fair 1 05 Jan 18, 12:26
Hi Darkseid - my response to your first comment was tailored to address your rather blunt questioning of the achievements of Jindal's students in terms of their performance, contribution to social justice matters etc. It seemed to mirror the flippant/offhand comments about JGLS we often seen in the comments section of Legally India posts. So I thought the record should be set straight in terms of the parameters you laid down - student performance, contribution to social justice issues, placements etc. Some of your questions could've easily been answered if you'd been following law school news, such as the recognition of JGLS' legal aid work.

It's only in your subsequent responses to my comment that it's become a clearer that you're focus is really on the question of whether JGLS' achievements can be termed to be "a meteoric rise" in comparison to other law schools. I was not, in my previous comment, intending to be drawn into that comparative analysis. Frankly, you could have questioned the suggestions of Jindal's "meteoric rise" even without including those rather badly drafted questions. I'm talking about this bit - "What exactly has the exceptional achievement been in terms of student performance? Or for that matter, faculty research? They don't have a comparable placement even with, say, NLUJ or GNLU, their students have not come in the news for doing anything spectacular in social justice matters yet either. I mean, of course they can do so in the coming years, but what exactly is the reason for claiming that model as a success at present?"


Not only did your manner of questioning NOT acknowledge actual facts about Jindal's achievements so far (to whatever degree), they seemed to suggest there weren't any. Like I said, I was just surprised that you didn't Google. If you had, your first comment would have looked more like your subsequent comments - more balanced and fair.
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Like +1 Object -0 Darkseid 04 Jan 18, 19:54
Also, vis-a-vis your point about the law firm recruitment, I'm sure there are JGLS alumni working at top-tier law firms. But as Legally India statistics have revealed over the last few years, the percentage of campus placement in top tier firms that JGLS has is lesser than the NLUs. One of the reasons for that is of course the much larger batch size, you cannot have that many students without compromising on quality and that's another defect of that model. But the fact remains that in order for that percentage to increase, more JGLS alumni need to reach senior positions in the recruiting firms, which will also take some time.
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Like +7 Object -0 charas 13 Dec 17, 16:11  interesting
Let's assume that they NEED to be multi-disciplinary. NLUJ has a school of insurance studies also where some losers come to do an MBA in Insurance and then there's also the M.Sc. Insurance. NALSAR also had some shoddy MBA program for court room management or something, I dont know if it still exists. NLIU also has a program called the MSCLIS which is something about cyber law and information security, separate from the LL.M. program. NLUs ARE multi-disciplinary, to some extent. The quality of these other programs is a different thing but the problem is that the NLUs aren't run by, let's just say, the most ambitious people..
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Like +3 Object -0 Quality 13 Dec 17, 17:19
..and NLUs cannot possibly run in the way IIMs and IITs do till the legal fraternity looks at academia as some sort of joke!
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Like +3 Object -0 Guest 13 Dec 17, 18:21
Kian how can you claim that NLUs "probably" do not have the status to apply if ISB and IIMs applied??? You are spreading fake news. Which VC told you this?
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Like +3 Object -0 Guest 13 Dec 17, 18:26
"Six other institutions have applied under the greenfield category. They include the Indian Institute for Human Settlements (IIHS), Bangalore, and the Indian School of Business (ISB), Hyderabad."

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/reliance-bharti-in-varsity-plan-193199

NLUs are definitely eligible.
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Like +2 Object -3 Dr Rajiv Dharaskar 13 Dec 17, 19:31
I have uploaded 2 videos at YouTube (Part I & II) about “Critical Analysis of Institute of Eminence (IoE)”, a project worth of Rs. 10,000 Cr by MHRD, which is a way to build World Class Universities in India. I am sure my videos can help a lot for developing proposals for prospective institutes of Eminence.

URL of Part II is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hm5LCroLo&t=7s

URL of Part One is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_lVl4RZ0o&t=1499s
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Like +1 Object -7 Guest 13 Dec 17, 21:59
It's JGU which has applied and not JGLS. So first line is wrong that JGLS has a chance. Secondly, almost all the state universities have a law faculty. So how can you only refer JGLS as the law school which stands the chance (with exclusion of all other Universities which have applied)?
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Like +4 Object -2 X 14 Dec 17, 06:31
JGU is essentially equal to JGLS. 80% of students of JGU study law, making JGU a law university like the NLUs. The point being made is that NLUs are missing out on a golden opportunity.
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12
Like +5 Object -0 info needed 14 Dec 17, 06:26  interesting
Prachi and Kian, you owe your readers an explanation instead of feeding half information. In particular the following:

1) Your headline seems to be incorrect as single-discipline institutions seem to have applied. So are NLUs allowed to bid or not?

2) If yes why were no bids made? The VCs must explain.

3) If a total of 100 applications were made, what are the actual chances of JGLS succeeding? Does the government plan to make a law university an IOE? Will it help JGLS that none of the NLUs have applied? It will be disastrous and unfair if NLUs are denied this status and JGLS is awarded it.

4) On a larger note this brings us back to two key issues affecting NLUs: lack of national status and deliberate attempts by some VCs to block NLU alumni from joining the faculty (leading to exodus to JGLS). What is the status of the Nationalise NLUs campaign? It seems to be fizzling out.
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Like +0 Object -0 an0nymous 15 Dec 17, 08:34
Change your headline from NLUs cannot apply to NLUs did not apply.
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Like +0 Object -2 Dr Rajiv Dharaskar 15 Dec 17, 16:33
I have uploaded 2 videos at YouTube (Part I & II) about “Critical Analysis of Institute of Eminence (IoE)”, a project worth of Rs. 10,000 Cr by MHRD, which is a way to build World Class Universities in India. I am sure my videos can help a lot for developing proposals for prospective institutes of Eminence.

URL of Part II is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hm5LCroLo&t=7s

URL of Part One is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt_lVl4RZ0o&t=1499s
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 16 Dec 17, 08:45
Kian this news report says ISB (which is not even a proper university) has applied for IOE status. So how can you say NLUs are not eligible? The VC you were speaking too is either lying or is ignorant. This was a great opportunity for NLUs

http://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/hyderabad/2017/dec/16/ioe-category-isb-uoh--ou-seek-world-class-institutes-tag-1728727.html
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