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Amebdkar U committee finds ALF founder, NLS grad Lawrence Liang sexually harassed PhD student [UPDATE: Liang issues statement]

University POSH committee finds against legal luminary LiangUniversity POSH committee finds against legal luminary Liang

Well-known human rights activist, academic and lawyer Lawrence Liang, who is a professor of law at Ambedkar University Delhi (AUD), has been found guilty by an AUD committee of having sexually harassed a female PhD student of another university, reported Asia Times today.

The committee concluded its findings just over four months after Liang was one of dozens of Indian academics named in a crowdsourced list in late October 2017 inspired by the #MeToo movement, which was compiled from partly-anonymous complaints, alleging sexual harassment in academia.

We have reached out to Liang, who declined to comment because he said he was bound by confidentiality.

Update 20:30: Liang has made the following statement:

The Committee for Prevention of Sexual Harassment (CPSH) at Ambedkar University Delhi (AUD) has conducted proceedings in which I was the defendant. The CPSH has given a report and made certain recommendations. This is only one part of the process provided by the CPSH rules. Those rules provide that both/either party can appeal the recommendations. I informed the CPSH and AUD of my intention to appeal immediately on receipt of the report.

I have not commented so far on the matter because of CPSH confidentiality rules. I can, and must, however, say this – I dispute the report in its entirety, its findings and recommendations included.

Some persons have initiated selective leaks. These persons know that I have signed confidentiality rules and cannot respond. Selective leaks demonize, cause a media trial, and proclaim guilt in advance.

I am passionately committed to AUD, and have worked hard to build the school that I am a part of, and I intend to exhaust every channel open to me to clear my name.

The committee in its report dated 20 February recommended “penal action” against Liang and that he relinquish his administrative duties, according to Asia Times.

However, it stopped short of suspending him, only recommending, according to the Times, which has access to a copy of the report:

that the university issue “a warning letter” saying he would face serious consequences including “suspension from service” if there were any more complaints. The probe noted that Liang was in a position with “a large number of students and faculty under his care.”

It is understood that Liang will be filing an appeal against the committee’s findings.

The original complaint against Liang had been filed on 10 October 2017, had said that he had initiated unwanted kisses with the complainant in April 2015, while she was in Delhi for a conference, and in September 2017.

The committee also looked into an “incident with the intern” that allegedly took place at ALF, though the Asia Times report does not elaborate further.

Liang is a 1998 NLSIU Bangalore graduate, who has founded the influential human rights organisation Alternative Law Forum that aims to provide access to justice to marginalised communities, and is a prominent supporter of free speech and open source software.

In 2014, he filed a semi-serious legal notice on Penguin to surrender its copyright in Wendy Doniger’s The Hindu’s, after Penguin chickened out of fighting a fringe religious group’s case to ban it.

He also holds a Master's from Warwick following a Chevening Scholarship, and had also been awarded a Hughes Fellowship in 2014, and was Rice Visiting Scholar at Yale University between 2016-17, according to Wikipedia.

In November 2017, he had been awarded the prestigious Infosys Prize in social sciences, “in recognition of his creative scholarship on law and society:

His prodigious output in the fields of copyright law, digital technologies and media, and popular culture consistently raises probing questions about the nature of freedom, rights, and social development. His provocative answers link historical context and ethical practice in unexpected and illuminating ways.

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Like +11 Object -44 Good news 08 Mar 18, 16:11  troll?  controversial
Great news on Women's Day. Slap in the face of self-righteous leftists and sickular JNU brigade (LI please mention he has a PhD from JNU). But it is shocking why he was not fired and reported to the police.

Well done also to Raya Sarkar for circulating the list. Let's hope the other lefties in the list are also targeted. Next step: can Legally India please seek a comment from the Naxal sympathiser (ex-Jindal prof) that Raya has written about here: http://www.firstpost.com/india/raya-sarkar-faces-death-rape-threats-after-sexual-predators-list-takes-academia-by-storm-4181659.html
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Like +46 Object -9 FK 08 Mar 18, 17:29  interesting  top rated  controversial
Umm, Raya Sarkar fought for Dalit-Bahujan feminism, which the righties don't even pretend to understand. Yes, there are sexual harassers in the left - are you claiming that this gives the right a moral one-up on the left? No, it doesn't. The right-wing is the same of M L Khattar who says women's liberation means that 'women will now want to walk naked' and of Uma Bharti who wanted to ban jeans in colleges in Bhopal. The same righties who called Shehla Rashid a prostitute (among many other slurs). Don't try to ride high on this as a victory of the right - the Indian right was never pro-women nor will it be.

Sexual harassment is not a consequence of ideology - it is consequence of male hegemony over non-male identities and that's how it ought to be examined. Kudos to Liang's victim for pursuing redress, and more power to her.
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Like +8 Object -16 Good news 08 Mar 18, 20:52  controversial
Yes, sexual harassment is the exclusive domain of the left. Please see Raya Sarkar's list. All lefties. Time to kick these scum out of Indian universities. They teach on Indian taxpayers money, get all benefits from India and then indulge in anti-India activities and advance the cause of China and Pakistan.

Also, here is sample of what your beautiful secular liberal politicians have said.

1) Ashok Gehlot - Girls and boys cannot walk hand in hand: http://www.daijiworld.com/news/newsDisplay.aspx?newsID=56229

2) Mulayam Singh Yadav - Justifying rape
https://www.dailyo.in/politics/mulayam-singh-yadav-women-gangrape-nirbhaya-badaun-rape-womens-reservation-bill-rahul-gandhi-sonia-gandhi/story/1/5751.html

A thousand examples like this exist
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Like +9 Object -2 Bhaiya 08 Mar 18, 21:23  interesting
The list is such because people from certain universities only had the courage to speak out. Doesn't mean hundreds of incidents aren't happening all across the country involving people from all political leanings. Also, since when is Mulayam Singh Yadav a leftist? It's not about political leaning, it's about social and cultural mindset and patriarchy and if you believe otherwise, then you are sadly deluded.
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Like +20 Object -1 HarveyBirdman 08 Mar 18, 21:55  interesting  top rated
Oh, come on!The reason that list is populated with people from the left is that it is a list of people in academia- clearly, a world where more people identify as liberal and/or on the left of center than not. If a list had been made of god-men and sadhus who have molested and abused women that would have featured rightwingers in overwhelming numbers also. This is not a left/right problem- This is not even really a man/woman problem- This is a power problem.

As far as taking digs at JNU goes- The complainant in this case also studied at JNU!! the people who found the guy guilty also work at Ambedkar University! yes, there are problems at these institutions about accommodating diversity- but at least these guys are trying to make things better.

This whole argument is rubbish because it tries to reframe and co-opt a feminist battle into one between the left and the right. and you are wasting your time trying to claim the moral high-ground here. Left wing and liberal women have decided to name, shame, and litigate sexual harassment, I am sure right wing women won't be far behind.
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Like +7 Object -2 FK 08 Mar 18, 23:21  interesting
Yes. Since the list was one of academics, clearly the right has no role to play there. They're more at home with HILA, supercomputing, TOP and other enlightened initiatives. Academia is pariah. The right instead engages with a naked monk in the Haryana assembly or with Yogiji who says 'women not capable of being independent'.

As I clearly pointed out (and you missed it entirely), I am not saying there is no sexual harassment within non-right circles - where there are men who feel entitled to abuse their position of power/fiduciary duties, there will be sexual harassment. The point is not one of political ideology but of hegemonic entitlement stemming from a gender that has traditionally enjoyed carte blanche.

This is your debate: look a leftie harassed someone --> all lefties are harassers.

My reply: harassers exist across ideologies - some examples cited of right wing harassers.

Your rejoinder: but what about Ashok Gehlot and M S Yadav? they are liberal secular but not pro-women.

My response to that: That is exactly my point! Harassers exist everywhere - by making it a right v. left debate and not acknowledging the role of men, you're posing an argument that misses the entire basis of sexual harassment. It's not a case of Hindutva v. the Red Book. It's a case of male v. non-male. If you still don't get it, not my problem to educate you. Clearly your law school failed to do that.
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Like +9 Object -3 Mohanlal 08 Mar 18, 23:18  interesting
Shocked. Know Liang personally. Hope justice is done.
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Like +14 Object -1 Womens Day 08 Mar 18, 16:18  interesting  top rated
This is disgusting and sad. Its good that these stories are out in the open. This just needs to stop. Such people should be named and shamed.
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Like +13 Object -8 Burnol 08 Mar 18, 16:22  interesting  controversial
Complete silence from NDTV, Wire etc.
Complete silence from Kanhaiya.
Complete silence from Liang's left-wing friends in academia.
Complete silence from Amartya Sen (on jury of Infosys Prize).

Instead only Legally India covers it.

Now just imagine if a BJP sympathiser had been involved instead!
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Like +9 Object -2 Guest 08 Mar 18, 16:37  interesting
Friends, please see this statement that was issued opposing the Infosys Prize to Liang.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/zehen/public-statement-rejecting-lawrence-liangs-infosys-award-in-the-field-of-social-/1595338523822525/

Very sad that it was ignored by Nivedita Menon, Kavita Krishan and other fake feminists who were defending Liang.
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Like +20 Object -30 Law firms 08 Mar 18, 17:04  controversial
It’s high time people also call out sexual harassment (physical/ verbal) and sexism at law firms. Leading law firms perpetuate a culture of “senior is god” and people are more than willing to overlook such events, let alone report them. For example
- a “blue eyed” young male partner [...] looks at a
Young intern and remarks “how taut everything was” and sighes deeply.
- a managing partner of a leading law firm introducing a female partner to a client saying “She is thin but she is deep”

It’s disgusting really. And more how everyone pretends to be soo cool while saying all this crap.
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Like +0 Object -1 Chamcha 09 Mar 18, 17:19
"thin but deep" huh. Still trying to figure out as to how Godzilla got a measure of it.
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Like +9 Object -5 Devastated 08 Mar 18, 19:18  controversial
Lawrence Liang is genuinely a shining light and someone I have looked to as a touchstone of intellectual thought and career formation. This news is devastating.
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Like +6 Object -0 also disappointed 08 Mar 18, 20:38  interesting
Same here. Alas, all idols have feet of clay.
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Like +10 Object -4 XYXYXYX 08 Mar 18, 20:43  interesting
Tip of the iceberg.I know of a young legal academic involved in such cheap conduct --- South Indian and graduate of a top NLU. Used to invite girls to his apartment and hit on them. Like Lawrence Liang, a left-wing "intellectual" who supports human rights.
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Like +4 Object -2 Bhaiya 08 Mar 18, 21:19
I'm no fan of the person you mentioned, if I have guessed the name right. But there's a difference between what you said and harassment as such. Although given some of the girls were his students, even such conduct is inexcusable and punishable.
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Like +10 Object -0 Another one 08 Mar 18, 21:50  interesting
And one bright young intellectual who is a renewed policy expert, know to have felt up a few women.
And another GC of a Big bank - felt up women at an alumni event in mumbai.
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8.1
Like +6 Object -1 Any other one 08 Mar 18, 23:21  interesting
Bank GC who organised the alumni event and made some very young lawyers weep after misbehaving with them.
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Like +3 Object -1 Concerned 09 Mar 18, 14:29
Bank GC who was [...]. it was an open secret that at company offsite events he would invite young female employees to his cottage / hotel room and harass / molest them. He even had the audacity to bill the bank for the expenses.
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Like +6 Object -1 Nlsiu disgrace 09 Mar 18, 16:33  interesting
Everyone knows who he is at least in nlsiu
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Like +0 Object -0 Bad 10 Mar 18, 08:24
PR of this general counsel is very bad it seems
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Like +3 Object -0 Alumni 10 Mar 18, 09:46
Supposed to be very active in alumni events too. God help the women there. Shameful how these so called successful people misuse their authority. Feel bad for nlsiu.
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Like +3 Object -1 Guest 08 Mar 18, 22:52
Hey Legally India, sexist remarks made by NLU VCs and professors (like the prof in Bangalore who made remarks about the girl in shorts) is also sexual harassment. Please include that too.
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Like +26 Object -41 ManyManyHarassers 08 Mar 18, 23:02  controversial
Well there aren't just one or two at our top law firms.

It's widely known that one of [...]'s blue eyed boys from [...] in the Delhi office is nicknamed "tharkhi". I have personally seen him say to a female associate "why are you wearing makeup? Are you an HR girl?". He's also known to say very vile things about junior female lawyers. But no one every calls him out, given his exalted stature at the firm. After all, partner so quick and young. It makes my blood boil every time he's out on CNBC/Bloomberg doling out wisdom like he's Solomon, when the reality is that he's only a Harvey Weinstein in the making.

-- Woman Who Wishes She Had More Courage.
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Like +34 Object -13 StopBullshiting 09 Mar 18, 08:02  interesting  top rated  controversial
None of what you constitutes harassment. In fact your wild allegations are defamatory. So please stop being a crusader and get back to work. And if you are generally frustrated with your workplace, find another job.
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Like +16 Object -27 FK 09 Mar 18, 23:03  controversial
"And if you are generally frustrated with your workplace, find another job": that is your response to calling out a sexist partner for what he is? For all the trash talk that Indian law firms do about 'family' and being happy joyous places to work, there is a serious sexism crisis that is not addressed. When called out, a firm spokesperson says 'allegations are defamatory' and 'stop being a crusader and get back to work' - both statements which are overtly telling someone that calling out sexism will have dire consequences and is a waste of time. Is that really the message you want to give prospective female recruits, [...]?
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Like +3 Object -20 Waste of time 10 Mar 18, 00:08
Don’t bother applying to that place. The whole place wreaks of arrogance and sexism. And they think it is “cool”.
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Like +3 Object -0 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 19:54
To the persons reporting this comment, the 'place' in question is literally not mentioned anywhere in the comments as far as I can see...
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Like +20 Object -4 StopBullshittingAgain 10 Mar 18, 06:23  interesting  top rated
Yes, because false accusatory characters like you do not understand any other language. Using such websites to defame people/ organizatios has become a habit for you. Either come out and prove it or simply eat it.

FIRM spokesperson etc is total nonsense again. You are unable to accept that one of the quiet readers is finally speaking her mind.
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Like +20 Object -11 HarveyBirdman 10 Mar 18, 12:40  interesting  controversial
@stopbullshitting. Wow. How willfully ignorant do you have to be? I do not know who is talking about whom here- I ran away from the corporate world just as soon as I could. But seriously? an anonymous comment on a legally India page that doesn't even name anyone is defamation? are you sure you're a lawyer?

There is a reason why the conduct described in "ManyManyHarassers" does constitute sexual harassment.

What she is describing is a hostile work environment. Contrary to what many people think, women do not go to work to get laid, they do not go to work to engage in courtship or to find a mate or to banter about sex with their co-workers. They go to work for the same reason that men do- to do their jobs, jobs they believe has value, which they're hoping will help them achieve their dream.

Comments focussed exclusively on a woman's appearance- making that the primary discussion at the workplace, judging and sorting women based on their perceived sexual behavior, men don't do that to other men. They only do that to women. Because women are never valued for their work or their intellect, not even in a professional setting. The primary thing women are valued for is their sexuality, their bodies are open game for critique and groping, their sex lives are open game for discussion.

The point of comments like this- is to remind the woman- hey you're in the workplace but - you are still less because of your gender, you are only an object and not a human-I get to sexualise you even when you have no interest in being sexualised because of your gender- I will still dominate you because of your gender. This kind of behavior is meant to show women "their place"

Try and imagine going to work and having your boss focus on your appearance, on your sexuality. Try and imagine having to manage this kind of misogyny every day- because you cannot come right out and condemn it- you will be labeled a bitch or "uncool"- your membership within this community is conditional to your submission to this kind of bullying. This is not one person just being inappropriate- this is a hostile work environment. This IS sexual harassment.

I don't mean to say that human conduct has to be sterile in the workplace- there can still be warmth between co-workers, and even an ease. I am fine with women and men in the workplace dating even. But all of this behavior should be based on mutual consent-- and there shouldn't be a culture that coerces you to submit to it.
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Like +2 Object -4 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 12:52
Well put...
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Like +10 Object -3 NoShitButMisdirected 11 Mar 18, 10:46  interesting
I am the kind of lawyer who still believes that one who asserts a fact must prove for which social media is not the place. I welcome debate on the general issues raised by you. More voices like yours must be encouraged in the corporate world.

Li i have nothing against you appreciating comments,however; please make your process more robust so u do not have to edit comments after publication, once damage is done.
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Like +5 Object -6 Darkseid 10 Mar 18, 13:08  controversial
Very well said. And the potential power equation involved here is also distinctly unhealthy. Are you going to see a junior male associate ever say that kind of stuff to a female partner? Hell no, because saying that is NOT cool and he lacks the power to get away with it. I have always found that to be a good test for 'coolness' quotient of comments or behaviour, if it is cool enough, a junior should feel equally comfortable in applying to a superior, rather than only the other way around.
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Like +1 Object -12 Chamcha 10 Mar 18, 20:42
Having observed from close quarters this is what I have to say
1) Some women want to shine for their brains and some looks and some use both. It's an unfortunate fact that many who rise through the ranks (not all) and survive are those who primarily use their looks for that is the only thing they have. It's not just soothing to the eyes and nerves of seniors, but also clients and counter parties. The problem arises when the pointsperson of the client is a lady. Remember firms need adequate number of salesgirls masquerading as lawyers.
2) Looks definitely count at the time of recruiting. For the tharki partner it's almost the sole criterion, provided you have the pedigree. It's a criterion he is vocal about, appreciated by the bosses and used by many a female.
3) Everyone working in a firm is competing with colleagues as well as working with them. It's a dog eats dog world out there, especially in the firm in question. Niceties are for fools. That's the culture that is encouraged and has pilfered through the ranks. You are going to be hauled for sexual harrassment only if they want to get rid of you. That means you either are useless or a threat or don't know with whom not to hit off, as some female maybe of interest to higher authorities or are closely connected to them.
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Like +3 Object -1 Kalyug 11 Mar 18, 11:10
And it happens that the innocent decent ladies who do not give in to demands of boss or dont fit in the indecent culture are tagged as juvenile, childish, psycho, lesbo, boring and in appraisal labelled as non-team players, inefficient and incompetent. The price of preserving ones dignity.
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Like +2 Object -8 FK 11 Mar 18, 16:01
You literally are saying the same thing over and over again: you want people to shut up about a potential sexual harasser. I have no ill will towards the firm mentioned, and a lot of people I know work there. I worked at one of the Amarchands earlier. I have seen that firm embody sexism as well. The point is not pointing fingers at law firms or particular institutions. It's about how rrogant and disgusting your shut down was. Please understand that it's not easy to xome out in an atmosphere that discourages it. Your high handedness only exhibits that a thousand times. Now fuck off.
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Like +9 Object -1 Chamcha 12 Mar 18, 14:41  interesting
You use the term"potential sexual harrasser". That closes the argument. Being a lawyer you ought to know no one needs be punished for potential to commit crime.
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Like +4 Object -4 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 13:31
We've had many requests to remove this comment but I think it was vague enough not to identify anyone, since no firm and law school is mentioned anymore. However, "blue-eyed" is surely something that could apply to hundreds of partners out there...
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Like +4 Object -10 Decency is rare 13 Mar 18, 00:07
I read this comment and I felt that this partner who has been named although using a rather crude term needs to to be talked about. He is known to have harassed many a women. I have been interviewed by him. Apart from asking me rather personal questions about my family when I asked him about what kind of a person is successful at the firm his categorically mentioned that in case of Associates who do well they must also be pleasant looking (pls note he didn't say profesionally dresser or well turned out) and cooperative. I somehow how did not get a very good feeling about that interview or about the firm following these answers. I am glad I didn't join. One of my classmates did join and she promptly left because the culture of misogyny that permeates in the firm is detrimental for one half of the population to work there. Unfortunately this particular partner is part of the recruitment exercises and is known to make women feel absolutely uncomfortable.

But he is not the only one. There is the [...] partner who is a lot more senior but has no sense of how to behave with women. It is well known that he cant hold his drink and behaved extremely poorly with two lady partners and a young associate. What is really disgraceful is that he continues to this at each party and yet the senior partner don't do anything about it.


The level of access that these 2 partners have to the senior partners prevent young associates and perhaps even the lady partners from complaining about rampant sexual harassment. A disaster is waiting to happen, especially because of the way the [...] partner preys on the young women associates and interns.
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Like +0 Object -6 Chamcha 14 Mar 18, 21:58
The details pasted by you suggest that you were more than a mere candidate who refused to join or was not picked up because of your refusal to play ball.
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Like +0 Object -0 kianganz 08 Mar 18, 23:26
FYI, some more details of case in Scroll's report:

https://scroll.in/article/871321/why-ambedkar-university-held-law-professor-lawrence-liang-guilty-of-sexual-harassment
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Like +0 Object -1 Guest 09 Mar 18, 00:36
More details here too:

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/lawrence-liang-found-guilty-sexual-harassment-survivor-says-punishment-inadequate-77670
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Like +0 Object -0 #MeToo 09 Mar 18, 00:46
Kian please report this: Raya Sarkar has been profiled by the Washington Post. In the video she accuses a professor (then at Jindal) for harassment. This guy was sacked from multiple universities and is a foul-mouthed obnoxious guy. Rajkumar must answer why he hired this guy and what action was taken.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/world/meet-raya-sarkar-the-south-asian-student-who-made-a-list-of-predatory-academics/2018/03/02/1d7691e8-168d-11e8-930c-45838ad0d77a_video.html?utm_term=.baff3074457b
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Like +8 Object -0 Guest 09 Mar 18, 06:44  interesting
As Arnab Goswami would say, "Where are the Tukde Tukde Five Star Activist Gang?"
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Like +4 Object -0 Topper 09 Mar 18, 06:59
Kian, you are playing with fire. Once you out one person thousands of names of harassers will keep tumbling out, including big names and the who's who of the legal world. This is India. Your site will be shut down and you will be threatened by the cops.
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Like +6 Object -0 Lawyer X 09 Mar 18, 11:00  interesting
I have a message for Legally India, Scroll, Quint and so-called "alternative media" sites: are you just doing a selective clickbait report of covering Lawrence Liang, or are you going to do a broader expose on sexual harassment and do activist journalism? If not, please do not insult the #MeToo movement and use it for more hits on your sites. It is a serious movement. Please also note that Raya Sarkar's list first outed Liang and she faced a lot of opposition from powerful interests from it. You people were silent then.

I want to know: Did you people report on the VC of a top 6 NLU sacked due to sexual harassment, and getting rehabilitated later?
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/society-the-arts/story/20030210-as-gender-crimes-become-a-serious-menace-in-indian-universities-no-campus-remains-safe-793505-2003-02-10

Did you people report when the ex-Dean of Pune Law was expelled for sexual harassment and then appointed as Dean of the IIT law school for many years?
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Varsity-professor-shown-the-door-for-misconduct/articleshow/44410790.cms

Did you report on the NLSIU prof named in Raya's list?

Did you report on the current controversy at NUJS?

But most of all, will you touch Senior Advocates and Judges?

Please see the film The Post and learn about true activist journalism.
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Like +1 Object -2 Chamcha 10 Mar 18, 11:46
A person who has been found to have committed sexual harrassment needs to be punished. But that doesn't mean that he should be rendered a social pariah for all times to come. After punishment even for crimes rehabilitation is pleased by the same set in their reports.
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Like +2 Object -1 Guest 09 Mar 18, 15:50
Update:

- News covered by Firstpost (with more details), Swarajya, TOI, CNN News 18, News X etc.

- Complete silence from NDTV and Wire. Kafila just gives a statement saying Liang will not be writing for them. No condemnation.

Leftist hypocrisy.
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Like +4 Object -0 Soleful 09 Mar 18, 18:33
Ashoka University is not some mom-n-shop university and Lawrence is a well known scholar The people on the investigation committee are also experienced scholars and there is no way they would have come to this finding if there was even a shred of evidence to support Lawrence's claim. I think behind all the procedural defences the complaint had substance and Lawrence has got away lightly. As an educated person it is inonceivable how he acted in this manner and he should be thankful he's not in police custody.
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Like +1 Object -0 Correction 09 Mar 18, 20:46
It's Ambedkar, not Ashoka. But agree with rest fi your post.
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Like +3 Object -1 Guest 09 Mar 18, 21:06
I am calling out an academic for inappropriate behaviour (with enough vagueness to void LI's defamation filters):

- Degree from a reputed university
- Had an association with ALF
- Left wing
- Kaamchor #1
- Shameless flirting with girls
- But liked by guys because friendly and pleasant
- Not a Sikh
- Not a Parsi
- Not gay
- Has a vowel in his name
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Like +1 Object -0 Shameful 09 Mar 18, 21:59
Liangs acts are despicable and a shameful blot on nls.. these kind of pseudo scholars are a disgrace to society
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Like +4 Object -3 Guest 10 Mar 18, 07:25
Libtard media, feminists, academics all quiet....
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Like +8 Object -2 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 09:23  interesting
You know, 'libtard' is not actually a real word, except possibly in a politically active primary school. Please make a bit more efforts with your insults next time.
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Like +3 Object -1 Guest 10 Mar 18, 15:31
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/libtard
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Like +3 Object -1 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 15:43
Thanks, I stand corrected. Now please look up presstitute, Aaptard, and Congtard also.
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Like +7 Object -1 Pallavi G Aney 10 Mar 18, 07:44 LI subscriber  interesting
Kian, may be I am missing the point (and I understand that it might be flowing from an update), but I don’t think “... vows to clear name” is the key feature of this story or headline worthy. There is an obligation (on all of us, including in dissemination on social media) to report news such as this factually and responsibly; not sensationally or in a way that diminishes the findings that have been arrived at. I would be grateful if you could consider that.

Thank you.
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Like +1 Object -0 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 09:16
Thanks for your feedback Pallavi, you are right on both counts and I had similar thoughts when changing the headline.

The phrasing of the headline was not intended to be sensational, but it is mostly due to the update of Liang's statement having come in several hours after publishing the story, after having initially said he would not comment due to confidentiality.

By the time that Liang gave his statement others were also starting to re-report the original story, so I thought it was a newsworthy update, the crux of which was worth adding to the headline.

No matter how solid the findings of the committee might appear to be, ethically (if not legally) I think Liang still retains the right for reasonable comments to be included in any story about him.

Considering that the news value of the 'vows to clear name' update is now less, I will move that update part to the end of the headline.
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Like +2 Object -1 Guest 10 Mar 18, 15:39
Good comment by Ms Pallavi. Sad that LI did not listen. In fact, the headline should be "victim/survivor slams inadequate punishment". Her response can be read on Firstpost. How can AUD not sack Liang even after all this?? What he did is a criminal offence. Shows that a cosy leftist cabal is at work.
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Like +4 Object -0 Soleful 10 Mar 18, 18:51
You are wrong. The committee is a statutory body and the finding is a legal conclusion. It is no different from rapists, murders and child abusers being found guilty by magistrates and judges. In all cases they have right to "clear their name". But let's act like grown-ups, nobody writes headlines with that bit. I dont recall any newspaper saying Afzal Guru vows to clear name.

The LI headline is the most damning indictment of gender bias prevalent and is exactly why people like Liang, Pachauri get away. Everyone is awed by their position and power and go into denial about these accusations even when investigated by committees.
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Like +1 Object -3 kianganz 10 Mar 18, 20:05
I understand your reservations, though if Afzal Guru gave a statement in which he literally said that he would try to "clear his name", then one might include a headline that included this statement if it's not been reported before, yes.

And while I don't disagree that a POSH committee's finding should be prima facie taken as fact, I'm not at all sure that a POSH committee decision has the same legal status as that of a court... Can someone clarify?
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Like +1 Object -0 Darkseid 10 Mar 18, 20:38
If you mean whether administrative action can be taken based on the Committee's reports and recommendations, then yes. Of course, you cannot arrest anyone or anything based on it. But suspension, yes, possibly even expulsion.
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Like +5 Object -0 Soleful 10 Mar 18, 20:40  interesting
sexual harassment committee is constituted under a law made by parliament and the law gives the committee the powers of a civil court in investigation. It is EXACTLY the same as the finding of any quasi-judicial tribunal.

I again urge that you change the headline and think about how this panders to an impression that Liang is innocent. He WAS but has been found guilty of being a sexual predator. Now he is guilty till he proves otherwise. By writing such headlines you are giving the impression this is just some accusation or a media story. Its not and a citizen from Europe like you of all people should understand that. Or are you gender desensitized already?
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Like +6 Object -2 Angry Bird 11 Mar 18, 13:51
@Darkseid and @Soleful: Spot on.

@Kian: Let's pause and look at the facts and circumstances objectively:

1. #MeToo, a global movement against sexual harassment takes place. One of the triggers is the Harvey Weinstein episode.

2. Encouraged by the movement, Dr Christine Fair accuses Prof Dipesh Chakrabarty of Chicago University of multiple sexual harassment. She writes to him directly and shares the email:
https://shortbustoparadise.wordpress.com/2017/11/10/today-i-confronted-dipesh-chakrabarty-damned-that-email-was-decades-over-due/

3. Inspired by Christine Fair, Raya Sarkar, a victim of sexual harassment by a professor at Jindal, bravely shares a list of sexual harassers in academia. This list is a big disrupter because it is dominated by the left-liberal set, who are defenders of human rights in public (like Dipesh Chakrabarty).

4. The list names Lawrence Liang, one such person.

5. Liang's influential friends like Nivedita Menon and Kafila condemn Raya.

6.. Yet, the list encourages one woman to come forward and say that Liang touched and kissed her on multiple occasions without consent.

7. A committee not only finds him guilty, but also suggests that he has indulged in such conduct in the past with interns from ALF.

8. However, the committee does not recommend sacking Liang. The same fate had met Dipesh Chakrabarty: no sacking, just a slap on the wrist.

9. The complainant writes a public letter expressing her unhappiness at the soft punishment.

10. Nivedita Menon writes a vicious post defending Liang and smearing Raya with names like "uninformed" and "self righteous".

11. No comments from several friends of Liang who had been protesting when Justice Ganguly was accused of harassing an intern (Indira Jaising, Shamnad Basheer etc).

Clearly, this puts the #MeToo movement in a deep crisis of credibility in India. It also raises serious questions about prevalent sexual harassment is in law schools and during internships (if the ALF internship accusation is also true). Who is going to probe sexual harassment if the champions of women's rights are themselves complicit?

In this light, the headline "vows to clear name" is not wrong, but it is completely divorced from the wider context. It's as if you have not been following events, and are reporting it as a random complaint by a random person which may or may not be true.

There are very deep, difficult questions that need to be asked. Whether universities or law firms, the culture of sexual harassment in th Indian legal fraternity is just shocking. Instead, you are practising sanitised journalism.
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Like +0 Object -1 kianganz 11 Mar 18, 14:25
Fair points all - have changed the 'update' part of the headline to just read that Liang issued a statement, rather than quoting his 'clear name' bit.
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Like +5 Object -1 donald 10 Mar 18, 20:05
Prof Nivedita Menon of Kafila (Liang's good friend and poster girl of JNU NDTV Feminism) has finally given a statement. It is just shameful what she has to say. Some of it is reproduced below. Kian please interview her on this.

"self-righteous and ill informed twitterati "

"From enquiry to report to appealing the decision (which can be done by complainant or accused) – these are all established stages of due process"

"Depending on the nature of the act of sexual harassment, the punishment would and should vary. The minimum punishment cannot be termination from a job, especially as in Lawrence’s case it is clear that the incident did not happen in a student-teacher interaction. "

"The AUD process includes the opportunity for both sides to appeal, only after which is the report made public. We must keep this in mind, that the process is not complete."

https://kafila.online/2018/03/10/in-the-wake-of-the-aud-report/
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Like +2 Object -7 Alarmed bystander 12 Mar 18, 08:11
Why is it "just shameful what she has to say"?

In addition to the self evident necessity of allowing the process to complete, I am not sure what AUD has to do with this incident in the first place. Without getting into a complicated legalistic debate on the Committee's jurisdiction, etc, it is alarming, to say the least, for our workplaces to assume this finger wagging guardian's role.

The workplace has no business policing our interpersonal relationships external to our work, and if one must introduce such public norms, and it is debatable if this is the way we as a society wish to deal with harassment, then lets please do it by passing appropriate legislation. Let there be more rigorous due process rather than having one's peers, with all the politics which follow our works space, determine the outcome of these proceedings.

What I am saying is this. Perhaps Prof. Liang is gentleman who has difficulty setting boundaries and regularly engages in distasteful behavior. But unless the law prohibits one from being an ass****, our peers have no business publicly drawing and quartering us in a kangaroo trial - a necessary result of involving competing interests with no education in due process - for this.
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Like +6 Object -4 Concerned 12 Mar 18, 13:29
So Liang is a "gentleman with difficulty setting boundaries" izzit? LOLOLOL

You have serious issues my friend.
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Like +1 Object -6 Alarmed bystander 12 Mar 18, 17:07
Maybe.

Unless *you* have something useful to add, may I suggest you restrict your inarticulate mooing to the voting tabs which LI so helpfully features on the webpage for the likes of you.
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Like +8 Object -2 Soleful 12 Mar 18, 18:30  interesting
This post above is a classic example of the chauvinistic condescension that is so widely prevalent and which allows people to rationalise sexual predation.

Point 1. What Nivedita Menon is saying is shameful because she claims to be a feminist, she claims to be a proponent for gender justice. She freely satires people and policies that are vaguely gender insensitive (quite self righteously too but I let that pass) but here she is voicing supporting for someone found guilty of sexual harassment. What else to say except that its shameful.

Point 2. AUD has jurisdiction, go see the Act. It was designed precisely to avoid people like you bringing up technical objections. But just to throw you a bone what difference does it make whether it is good or bad that AUD has jurisdiction. The fact remains that a committee of scholars (not police or bureaucrats) headed by an eminent female scholar found Liang guilty.

Point 3. You're tone deaf to the meaning of sexual harassment. To you that kind of behaviour (which creeps out any woman, is an affront to dignity and a form of abuse) is "interpersonal relationship". You mean like the "interpersonal relationship" that Tukaram had with Mathura? Or maybe you mean the "interpersonal relationship" that Sohanlal had with Aruna? NEWSFLASH : SEXUAL HARASSMENT IS NOT COOL IN ANY PLACE, INCLUDING WORKPLACE.

"Prof. Liang is gentleman who has difficulty setting boundaries "

I am speechless.

Kian, I request you delete the post as impressionable minds will read it and allow it to influence their notions of what is acceptable and not. Already too many f-g sexual predators out there, don't need another.
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Like +1 Object -6 Alarmed bystander 12 Mar 18, 20:02
A quick few things:

Prof. Liang's actions are quite beside the point. The legal process is not complete. And yes, I refuse to condemn him until the full facts are publicly known. This selective leaking of facts to the media is simply ridiculous and an affront to basic commonsense.

Ms. Menon, you would note if you had taken the time out to read her post, endorses the AUD Report and the suggestions therein. The point she makes has obviously slipped your blunt nub, so I wont bother trying to educate you on it, except to ask you to attempt taking the time to study her position on the issue.

Now coming to to my comment:

AUD's attempts at arrogating jurisdiction where the Act does not allow the Uni to police extra-workplace relationships leaps out at the most superficial reading of the Act. But I ll leave this be, considering statutory interpretation does not appear to be your strongest suit. Rather, consider this: do you think it fair for someone from last Friday night's drunk misadventures complain to your workplace about your misdirected courting attempts, and a committee constituting your potential professional competitors sit over judgment on this? And before you misquote me again, I am not suggesting that Prof. Liang's actions can be captured by this mild example.

Do forgive me if I do not have any faith in having one's social interactions judged by "a committee of scholars". If this is the way to go then lets do away with Courts; and why even stop at sexual harassment? Surely there are other wrongs which have moral implications. Think bullying, corruption, theft, marital cheating, abandonment...no? The Act delicately balances the competing interests of ensuring speedy and effective complaint redressal for victims, and to maintain some semblance of due process while at it. This precisely makes the issue of Committee's jurisdiction so important. Workplace harassment is pretty much the farthest we as a legal system go with peer judgment (think trials, the Nanavati case). And the even the most enthusiastic proponents of the Act would admit that the present solution is an imperfect one, at best.

Oh, also for before you start digging the thesaurus further, you might want to check yourself and let "impressionable minds" form their own impressions, before you start accusing others of condescension.
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Like +5 Object -1 Soleful 12 Mar 18, 22:12
Nice try at sounding sophisticated. Good to see you're keeping quiet on your earlier REALLY SHAMEFUL statement that Liang is a "a gentleman who has difficulty setting boundaries". I guess thats what sexual predation and abuse is called these days.

Youre unhappy with scholars judging Liang, well guess what THATS THE LAW. and THATS THE CULMINATION OF A LEGAL PROCESS. If don't like it go ahead and petition the legislature to change it. I'm also not ok with stupid incompetent judges (morons who don't know a thing about IP) presiding over my IP cases in High Court but I have to accept their judgment because thats the law. But nice try shifting the argument from Liang's case to a wider general issue.

Its super-easy to point out weaknesses in any system. But what is the alternative to the Act...go to court??? Police??? Do you have any idea how HUMILIATING that is??? Are you so insensitive that you understand NOTHING about why judicial process fails women.

Something I learnt in law school..when defendants start with arguments on technicalities like jurisdiction you know they are in deep shit. Enjoy your losing argument you f-g apologist for sexual abuse.
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Like +4 Object -2 Darkseid 12 Mar 18, 23:52
Also, I didn't know one has to wait till all avenues of appeal are exhausted before one can hold that a person has been convicted. Given the committee is authorised by the statute to take cognizance of the matter (a fact that, mind you, even Liang himself did not challenge, but you (Alarmed Bystander) clearly are), then till the point the committee's decision is overturned by an appellate authority, like it or not, that is the law. By that logic, till after Presidential pardon is sought, a convicted individual should be allowed to stay at his place, lounging about, instead of being in jail. With regard to your point about the judicial/investigative capacity of the committee, that's well taken, but why is it that such questions are raised only when an accused is convicted and not absolved? Had the Committee set him free of all charges, clearly that would have been portrayed as the superiority of grievance redressal system over vigilantism. People like Menon have actually passed many an unfavourable comment on others even before they have formally been convicted by similar committees. One does not expect her to be equally critical of someone close to her, that would be naive, but the least she could have done was not to engage in discussions as to when the process is 'complete', sounding 'holier-than-thou' all of a sudden.
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Like +2 Object -5 Alarmed bystander 13 Mar 18, 06:45
Both of you are woefully uninformed on the matter.

The AUD Report is not public, we just know select excerpts of it through media leaks and corridor whispers. Prof. Liang did demur on jurisdiction but formally forewent his opportunity to legally contest it. Quite frankly I am aghast that after years of legal training you do not see the merits in allowing an appellate process to complete or to at least seek the public release of the AUD Report. This itself demonstrates the problematic aspects of peer judgment.

The farthest I will go based on media reports and taking into consideration the process is incomplete is what I stated in my previous post. And if you concede on the limited judicial capacity of the AUD Committee then you would have to also admit that all the appellate remedies, *at least so far as fact finding is concerned*, must be exhausted before we can even think notionally about this incidence. (FYI-Presidential Pardon is not by way of appeal)

Scholars judging Liang's life outside the Uni is not the law. And you hope to the lord that it remains so unless all and sundry in your office gather tomorrow to judge your weekend activities. The office will become humanity's elusive court of universal jurisdiction haha

Both of you have failed to engage in the substance of the previous comments which I can't say I am surprised by given that you fit the classical definition of the hollow self righteous chest thumping keyboard warrior keen to flash your feminist credentials without actually working for it. Judging by your pathetic uninformed bleating, its safe to say Ms. Menon has done more for the cause than you can over a couple of lifetimes. Again, just go educate yourself on the issue before rushing into drafting a reply.
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Like +4 Object -1 Darkseid 13 Mar 18, 08:17
What substance? So far all you have said consists of your opinion. AUD report will not be made public because the law doesn't require it to be made public as such. It is clear that most of your information is received from reading about it rather than knowing grassroot level realities and that makes you more of a keyboard warrior than anyone else. It's your opinion that all appellate processes must be exhausted before one can even 'think' about it. That's not the law. Also, whether Liang demurred on jurisdiction but later cjose to forgo it (the wording carefully meant to indicate his generosity in terms of cooperation) is anybody's guess. Why should we tane your anonymous word for it? Je dud go with the jurisdiction and that's that. I'm not asking Liang to be lymched as your comment seems to suggest, I'm simply saying administrative action as per committee's recommendation ought to be taken and the recommendation itself seems to be rather soft given he has been found guilty of the conduct charged of by the committee. As for your opinion on whether the university has any locus to judge his life outside campus, again, he did accept it by cooperating with it instead of challenging it, so I don't see how that is a matter of concern for you so long as the law remains unchanged. You never did address the point about Menon's conflicting responses when people close to her aren't under the radar, instead choosing to rant. I get your opinion, you are entitled to have it. But so far you only come across as a Liang apologist, irrespective of leading with words like what Liang did or didn't do is not the point etc. Apparently your law school education hasn't managed to teach you the meaning of obvious hyperboles (the pardon) or sensitivity or sense of Justice, so I'm glad mine doesn't mirror yours.
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Like +1 Object -3 Alarmed bystander 13 Mar 18, 09:41
Everything I state is based on publicly available information. Which is why I again entreat you to go do your homework before presuming to hold an opinion on this.

The point I raise has nothing to do with Prof. Liang. Query whether you would wish your office and colleagues to police all your social engagements. They are neither independent nor unbiased due to the fact that they work closely with you and pursue the same opportunities and interests. This, when coupled with the shortcomings of peer judgment makes any fact finding outside of the workplace incidents suspect.

You do not appear to understand the basics of due process, the law quite clearly is that until a matter is sub-judice no opinion either way is justified.

The substance of the Committee's recommendations is built on certain findings on fact, and my position is that the Committee is not allowed by law to make these findings of fact. So where does that leave us? If one were to adopt your position, then in the interest your "sense of justice", we should be glad to have people approach the workplace rather than the courts for relief. If this indeed is your position, then why stop at sexual harassment. There are legal wrongs which have much greater moral and societal implications. How about having everything adjudicated at first instance at the office.

As for explaining Ms. Menon, her position on this coincides with yours. So I am unclear on what are you going on about?

The Liang Case, as far as I am concerned, ought not be discussed and no legitimate opinion , howsoever prima facie, can be formed on it unless, at the very least, the AUD Report is out. Think about this: on what basis are you so enthusiastically gunning for the Committee's recommendations? - Media Reports? And since you are unaware of the findings on fact, on what basis do you opine on the *sufficiency* of the recco?

If my position makes me a Liang apologist, then yours makes you a mindless quacking duck.
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Like +4 Object -2 Concerned 13 Mar 18, 16:49
The arguments of 'Alarmed Bystander' actually damage Liang and reveal the prevailing misogynist views in society. They are also factually wrong and display a low level of understanding of legal system.

I found the argument on jurisdiction appalling; Liang himself has agreed to appear before the committee and could have filed a writ on that ground alone but did not. So that entire argument is bogus.

Another argument is an allegation of bias. That's true in any judicial forum and is a structural problem that affect every litigant. Lower court judges are appointed by the state government and decide 99% of criminal trials where the state is a party. So it is not particularly a unique problem that Liang faces. Another bogus argument. The worst part is that it shows how insensitive Mr Alarmed Bystander is to the plight of woman who have earlier required to go to the ordinary court / thana for redressal.

@Soleful, spot on with your comment that in gender crimes traditional redressal has failed due to insensitivity and lack of training. As a woman I would definitely prefer an internal committee to going to the police station especially for non-violent sexual offences.

Another argument is that the committee cannot make findings of fact. That is rubbish. The committee has powers of a court to make inquiry, call for statements, arrive at a finding. Arguing that the committee has no power to find facts can only be done by someone who has not read the law.

The last argument is that proper appellate process is yet to be done, blah blah. That is true for any criminal convict except that once convicted burden of proof is on the convict to establish his innocence.
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Like +2 Object -3 Alarmed bystander 13 Mar 18, 18:59
@Concerned: "As a woman I would definitely prefer an internal committee to going to the police station especially for non-violent sexual offences." - at long last we reach the nub of the issue I raised, and I appreciate you voicing it in plain terms.

As a woman *lawyer* I do not agree with you. The Sexual Harassment of *Women at Workplace...Act" does not address harassment outside of the workplace (understood as a notion, not a physical area ofc). Period. And for good reason - peer judgment is a problematic idea, and extending this to cover all social interactions is dangerous for the reasons I outlined previously and wont reiterate again. Your point on State appointed judges is a false analogy for a range of reasons not least of which is judges do not engage and share interests with the *State* the way colleagues in a workplace do, and the State ofc is not an interested party the way a defendant is. And last I checked, we have a free and independent judiciary. Would you now claim that workplace colleagues are also free and independent in the same fashion as the judiciary?

Once convicted at first instance the burden does not shift. This is Crim Law 101 stuff.

I don't have any views on Liang's decision to submit to the jurisdiction of the Committee. I am more concerned with the Committee's arrogation of this jurisdiction.

As for the rights of the victim in a country such as ours with all its attendant problems, this is ofc an urgent and alarming issue which needs careful attention. I would be the last person to suggest that victims of sexual harassment have sufficient recourse under the current legal and social framework. We have to think hard on how to build systems to support and provide effective access to justice to victims. I do not presume to have any ready answers to this complex problem.

But what I am certain of is that I do not want my colleagues and peers to sit over judgment on all and sundry complaints outside of my work.
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Like +5 Object -0 Bhaiya 13 Mar 18, 23:21  interesting
If you don't want it, don't accept the Committee's jurisdiction or challenge it at the outset (in case you ever end up facing one that is). That option is still available last I checked. Liang did submit to its jurisdiction willingly, didn't he? I mean, I am not sure, so far all I have read are sketchy media reports, which I put no faith on these days with regard to solid, verifiable facts. I have no personal knowledge of the committee members, but I can say from personal experience that most of similar committees formed at NLUs at least are worse than jokes, whom I won't trust with telling me the time of the day, let alone grave matters like these.
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Like +0 Object -0 Chacha 14 Mar 18, 12:44
I agree with you @Bhaiya

Does anyone really have any choice when so pubicly accused? This solution of gg to internal committees is a risky quick fix. We should all ponder ovr this...let the law tske its course for lawrence, i say.

Kian, pls dnt publish these shrill mob cries. These duffers dunno law and are immune to logic
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Like +3 Object -3 Soleful 13 Mar 18, 23:42
From your post its getting clear that subjects which are NOT your strong point are civil Procedure, Criminal Law, Constitutional Law and statutory interpretation. Though I dont blame you, I blame the education system for producing such lawyers without imparting basic legal reasoning skill, let alone legal knowledge.

I suggest (as others have done) that you first read the law before commenting. You can also critique the law (assuming you manage to read it) but that is nothing to do with Liang's sexual abuse.

As I said before you know the opposite party is on a bad position when they start disputing jurisdiction, calling the law bad at the outset. Yawn, I'm starting to get bored here. What will you come up with next? That committees use torture to extract confessions? Come up with something original and I'll humour you.

PS: Keep downvoting my replies in rage ! :) Nobody's watching you !
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Like +1 Object -4 Chacha 14 Mar 18, 05:43
@soleful You are obv a second rate no hoper with little to add except a crapload of poorly constructed ad hominem attacks. Chill out dude, you are out of your depth here and have been outclassed by every other discussant hehe
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Like +0 Object -2 Chamcha 14 Mar 18, 21:53
I pity your clients who got stuck with a certified duffer like you. Looks like for you, the only way you woo the court is display your incompetence.
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Like +1 Object -0 Chacha 15 Mar 18, 09:51
@'sole'ful, yar looks like ur too thick to get that by this point ur bit of a public joke. You see, I am not in the businees of "wooing" the court. Judging by ur dazzling powers of pursuasion i guess u must be quite wooer haha
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Like +5 Object -3 Guest 11 Mar 18, 07:58
FYI sharing Raya Sarkar's post on Ashley Tellis of Jindal (another notorious ultra-left wing human rights guy, not to be confused with the international relations expert called Ashley Tellis):



http://www.firstpost.com/india/raya-sarkar-faces-death-rape-threats-after-sexual-predators-list-takes-academia-by-storm-4181659.html
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Like +0 Object -2 FK 13 Mar 18, 20:09
While not taking away from what Raya has said, Ashley Tellis is an English teacher, not an 'ultra-left human rights' guy. He's openly gay, that's about how human rights-y he is. I don't understand why some commenters are hell bent on making this an ideology argument when it is what it is: plain and clear sexual assault.
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Like +1 Object -1 Darkseid 13 Mar 18, 23:25
I think it's because most of the people named in the list are associated with institutions having prominent ideologies, isn't it? Like JNU, JU etc. But that's also understandable, because students from these places are also the ones more likely to report matters like this for a wide variety of reasons. Another interesting factoid is that the institutions referred to are almost all teaching primarily liberal arts, humanities etc. I shudder to think how many more such cases are taking place everyday in the hundreds of other places. I know for a fact numerous Ph.D. candidates in science streams are regularly harassed by their guides (ideology notwithstanding)
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Like +1 Object -0 FK 14 Mar 18, 03:50
Absolutely agree with you. I just had an issue with the previous comment going the earlier way of 'where are the liberals now' instead of appreciating a victim standing up and seeking redress.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 14 Mar 18, 05:02
He indeed is an ultra-left human right guy. Was editor of the Jindal journal and worked on human rights issues. Has participated in protests against anti-Naxal operations and the BJP government.
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Like +2 Object -0 Hostile Environment 11 Mar 18, 23:35
Power, nepotism, groupism, cronyism, bro culture are extremely dangerous concepts in office space. Office is meant for work and therefore known as workplace. Office is not meant for befriending or ganging up and making a hostile environment against the few. Ganging up is used in a big way against women who don't succumb. Its disturbing. I think the culture of groupism should be carefully paid attention to as a contributor to Sexual Harassment. Majority against a single woman at the instance of a harasser for no fault of hers is a kind of violence and does irreversible damage to career and mental health

Best regards
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Like +1 Object -0 Typhoon 12 Mar 18, 10:47
Below are a collection the many tweets slamming Nivedita Menon. Now I would like to know where Indira Jaising and Shamnad Basheer stand. Following the Justice Ganguly incident you went on the warpath. Now your close friend has been implicated Will you speak out and condemn him? Or do you agree with Nivedita Menon?

https://twitter.com/AmbaAzaad/status/972408822462590976

https://twitter.com/rsidd120/status/972503787020607488

https://twitter.com/swatipash/status/972522485521506304

https://twitter.com/sohni_c/status/972782481790423040

https://twitter.com/visually_kei/status/972784159457533952

https://twitter.com/monteskw/status/972688212828327936

https://twitter.com/Miminality/status/972414083692728320

https://twitter.com/SanjanaPegu/status/972357261023625217

https://twitter.com/aindri/status/972365047744815104

https://twitter.com/Miminality/status/972414083692728320

https://twitter.com/swatipash/status/972496769501327367
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Like +1 Object -2 Need of the Hour 12 Mar 18, 16:26
Undertaking on Rs.100/ stamp paper

I _____________(qualificati ons), age_____father/ brother/ son/ husband of __________residing at ______________state as follows:


I am fully aware that I am joining _______ institute/college/law firm/company with the intent of providing my services . I am aware that I shall be compensated for my services by way of salary/ fees by the organization which shall be adequate consideration.

I undertake to render services to my workplace and shall not be engaged in any sexual behaviour, flirting, dating, stalking, ogling, stay/ over night stay, unwelcome touching with the members of the opposite sex within and outside the workplace in my capacity and position as employee of this organization.

I undertake to use my position to attain the objectives of institute/college/law firm/ company . I shall not use my position or power or connections for sexual demands and shall not directly or indirectly coerce a member of the opposite sex for it. I understand that profanity is not welcome and I shall refrain from it.I shall refrain from the physical and mental shaming of members of the opposite sex. I shall refrain from behaviour which amounts to lowering the dignity of women. I shall not single out a person which may amount to using pressure or creating hostile environment.

I undertake to respect my colleagues/ students and shall refrain from indulging in inappropriate talks and behaviour which may cause damage at individual level and organizational level.

In the event of me failing in the terms of this Undertaking I shall agree to resign / be terminated / apologize / demoted / be subject to criminal and civil proceedings.


__________

Sd/-

Date:

Place:
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Like +0 Object -0 Santa Singh 12 Mar 18, 17:09
Good to see that the Wire has finally broken its silence and criticised Liang.

https://thewire.in/231475/indias-weinsteins-have-nothing-to-worry-about/
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Like +5 Object -4 Guest 12 Mar 18, 17:20
I dare Kian Ganz to address the elephant in the room, which is the "bro culture" of NLSIU that has been breeding sexual harassers for the past 20 years.
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Like +3 Object -1 Darkseid 12 Mar 18, 19:00
That culture prevails, unfortunately, in most of the top tier universities in the country these days, including other NLUs.
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Like +2 Object -6 yoda 13 Mar 18, 07:12
Behind the shiny exterior of NLSIU lies the ugly rotten truth of sexual abuse, ragging, violence, misogny, regionalism, discrimination, corruption, mediocrity, nepotism.
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Like +3 Object -3 Agree with yoda 13 Mar 18, 11:13
Also don't know why some NLSIU pass outs talk in an American and British Accent? Even if they went abroad for 1 or 2 years and picked up the accent......they can similarly drop it when they are back in India. Verbal masks to cover the inferiority complex and lack of knowledge in law. They also think that those who speak in regional language are something inferior. Time somebody showed them the mirror.

Agree with every word of yoda.
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Like +2 Object -0 fighter 13 Mar 18, 18:59
Truth about NLSIU:

1. Tradition of sexual ragging. Many years ago a notorious incident happened where a perpetrator let off as his father was a powerful person close to Congress top brass.

2. Harassment of women. It comes from an arrogance stemming from a belief that NLSIU is Harvard of the East which leads people to think all girls from other colleges are fresh meat who will fall for them (reality: no Indian law school in QS world ranking of top 300 law schools).

It's just that Lawrence Liang got caught. Many other "star" NLSIU people are pervs.
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 13 Mar 18, 15:47
Is Legally India sleeping?? A debate is raging in social media about this and Nivedita Menon but you are quiet. Also, Asia Times has sent a questionnaire to ALF but no response. Since ALF is a popular destination for interns and the committee found harassment there, the question now is whether law students have undergone such harassment???


http://www.atimes.com/article/indias-culture-silence-around-sexual-harassment-campus/
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Like +1 Object -1 SCSC 14 Mar 18, 10:45
I request Legally India to delete some SICK comments being posted here by supporters of Liang trying to defend him.
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Like +2 Object -2 Asking 14 Mar 18, 20:51
So many comments against NLSIU here ok. Are we going to have a NLSIU mukt bharat? Is that the wave.

:)
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Like +2 Object -0 Guest 15 Mar 18, 08:02
I can name a prominent NLSIU graduate in academics and two in law firms who are sexual harassers, but Legally India will censor the names.
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Like +7 Object -1 Darkseid 15 Mar 18, 09:32  interesting
And rightly, too. I am sorry to say this, but rumour-mongering in this matter is more harmful for the cause of the victims than beneficial. If a victim needs support, I am all for it. However, if you wish to take action against the perpetrator(s), then there are regular and proper channels (be it court or internal mechanisms) for that. Putting up names of people, that too anonymously and without a shred of evidence, lacks any credibility whatsoever, and I am glad Kian won't be allowing that.
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Like +1 Object -1 Smoke with Fire 15 Mar 18, 09:52
Who says anyonymous is not credible? So many women are screaming foul you think for fun? What forum you are talking of? Defective POSH Committees? Paid police? Long drawn litigations? What can women with damaged careers do other than visiting LI and venting out anger? What is the justice for women?
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Like +4 Object -0 Darkseid 16 Mar 18, 11:52
It is a simple matter of prudence and common sense. How are you even certain that any person who is anonymously bringing an accusation against a named person in this forum is a woman or a man or a victim or knows such a victim or has actually suffered/been suffering or for that matter, anything at all? If X has a grudge against a colleague Y, regardless of gender, what is to stop X from writing an absolutely fictitious narrative down here, naming Y? Are even a substantial number of readers actually going to take the trouble of investigating and researching the matter? I think what Kian suggested about sending a tip is acceptable still. He can at least look into the matter and if he finds there's some truth in it, he can take a call regarding publishing. The media has a tremendous power in this age, it is up to us to use that power responsibly and for the benefit of actual victims, not sham ones.
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Like +0 Object -3 kianganz 15 Mar 18, 09:57
Please do post that comment, we will probably moderate the names, but it will be useful information for us that we can potentially investigate further if actionable.

It would also be useful to encourage general debate and highlight the scale of the problem, even with the names eventually moderated.
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Like +0 Object -0 kianganz 15 Mar 18, 13:03
To the numerous complaints about my comment soliciting anonymous complaints, I think they're maybe misreading.

We will NOT be publishing any identifying details of any anonymous complaints.

However, they are useful to us as tip-offs, and we will be happy to discreetly and robustly investigate any such tips, rather than just publishing these without any research.

Please also feel free to send a tip completely anonymously, for our eyes only, via the "Send Tip" button on the very top left of the page.
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Like +1 Object -0 Aftermath etc. 15 Mar 18, 11:02
Kian can u do some research on the aftermath of SH. What happens to the victims. Many victims wud not like to go back to the same environment. How do they cope. Do younger girls suffer the most..do talented women suffer the most....what is the psychological impact.....do women start hating men after SH..... How do perpetrators manage to get a job even after being terminated for SH......why do other women not help the victim.....so many questions to be answered
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Like +2 Object -2 Libtard 16 Mar 18, 10:35
Till his appointment at AUD, Lawrence motored around Bangalore on an over-used kinetic Honda drawing a salary his peers would laugh at. To me he's still one of the brightest minds in India. Legally, this order is a joke and I hope he succeeds on appeal.
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Like +2 Object -0 Darkseid 16 Mar 18, 11:45
What exactly is the relevance of the first two sentences with regard to the issue being discussed here? Are you trying to say, people who are not rich/corrupt or people who are bright cannot possible harass somebody else? I mean, I'm not opining about whether he has done so or not, but any positive attributes that Liang may have is of little relevance in this context. If he is respected for his good work, he must be criticized for anything bad that he might have had done. He himself would prefer that standard to be applied if he's the man you say he is.
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Like +1 Object -0 Other side 17 Mar 18, 14:37
Irrespective of the truth in the allegations against Lawrence, those who have studied and worked with him over the years know him as a fantastic orator, quizzer, debater, creative writer, music aficionado, film buff, photography enthusiast, sportsman, team player, a quick witted person with an outrageous sense of humour and one who can keep you in splits for hours together. Genuinely hope he emerges from this mess. It's sad how one incident highlighted in the media ruthlessly tarnishes a person's image completely overshadowing the numerous other positive qualities about him.
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Like +3 Object -1 Thanos 17 Mar 18, 15:48
Would you also like to describe to the world how he goes regularly to Sunday School and feeds the pigeons on his rooftop? Apologies if that sounded harsh, but this is NOT the place to highlight Liang's hundreds of good qualities, at least not in relation to this news. If he is in a 'mess', it's because of his inexcusable behaviour, which happens to be a crime under the law of the land. This is the kind of reaction that also drives victims to despair/vigilantism. Despite a lawfully appointed committee holding someone responsible for harassment, after a victim has had undergone trauma that I can only imagine of, people are still prone to looking at the perpetrator as a wonderful reason, who's just facing a bit of nuisance and will emerge victorious from this all. At which point do people actually start supporting the victim, then? Nothing about Liang has been 'ruthlessly tarnished' so far. He's still going about his work, not been suspended, nothing. Even the recommendation of taking away his admin responsibilities have not been put into effect. "One incident highlighted in media", such a terrible thing, right? Victims should just roll over or keep mum, because at least someone who is harassing them is a "fantastic orator, quizzer, debater, creative writer, music aficionado, film buff, photography enthusiast, sportsman, team player" etc. etc. How lucky the victim must be, she could have drawn a much worse harasser in her fortune cookie!
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Like +0 Object -0 No ones side 17 Mar 18, 16:35
Can we know how many men have actually got punished for SH at workplace?
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Like +0 Object -0 Guest 16 Mar 18, 11:57
Hey Kian why no follow up stories?? I hope it is not because Liang is part of the anti-BJP left liberal gang?
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Like +0 Object -0 Macdonalds better opt 17 Mar 18, 00:38
While media is all support for metoo campaigns let me tell you fighting a legal battle is an extremely difficult task. You may want to expose the guy and may want to punish him but its an uphill task and it eats away the productive years of your life. Better to work at Macdonalds than to work your youth studying law and suffering harassment at the hands of NLSIUs. Pig Rascal not knowing law and wanting to be GC. Useless. Why do we study so much and then why do we suffer so much. And so contradictory that we are lawyers yet we cant seem to get justice for ourselves. Too draining out. A woman becomes a vegetable fighting for her rights .
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