Just before 3pm yesterday (Thursday, 24 September), all staff and fee-earners at L&L Partners received an email from managing partner Rajiv Luthra, announcing a virtual townhall for 5pm that day.
The meeting would be an “important address to the firm”, and attendance of “every single member” was compulsory in the Zoom call, according to the invite.
The announcement caused a stir within the firm, particularly following our report last week about a potentially acrimonious disagreement between Luthra and senior partner Mohit Saraf about the future of the firm.
And besides the months of animated closed-door debate between the non-equity partnership and Luthra and Saraf about opening up the firm’s equity, very little had been said publicly until now.
And so, by 5pm the Zoom call had quickly hit its maximum capacity of 300 participants (the limit in Zoom’s ‘small and medium businesses’ plan). Up to around 100 to 150 other staff members and fee-earners of L&L found themselves locked out.
By the time the call ended, just over 90 minutes later, they had missed what was, by most accounts, one hell of a call (as was first broken, as usual, in the Legally India comments last night).
Their GIF game was strong
For a variety of reasons we can not really summarise in detail all allegations, claims and counter-allegations that occurred on the call but fortunately we don’t need to: this comment left by a talented Legally India reader in GIFs, sums it up fairly accurately (at least in terms of many fee-earner and partners’ reactions).
For those who don’t speak GIF, suffice it to say, according to multiple accounts:
- Luthra publicly spoke against Saraf and his plans for the firm, primarily reiterating Luthra’s earlier claim that Saraf had not been a co-founder of the firm,
- each of the equity partners in the separate L&L litigation partnership - HS (Bobby) Chandhok, Vijay Sondhi and Sudhir Sharma - made brief speeches supporting Luthra,
- Saraf did not take the attacks lying down and retaliated with allegations against Luthra, and the names of a prominent businessman and a multinational bank were dropped,
- Luthra, who hosted the Zoom call, responded and rebutted some of the allegations in detail (including apparently making a call to a client to rebut such allegation, right there on the Zoom call), and
- the call finally ended with Luthra promising to come up with a solution to everyone’s problems and questions soon.
Much more than that happened but at the same time, in short, not much more either and importantly, no real substantive discussion about the future or equity distribution at the firm actually took place.
But worse, many of the fee-earners who had not been privy to recent discussions within the partnership were left in a state of confusion after the gloves had come off in the fight between the two senior equity partners, who had generally presented a united front until now.
The question on many lips and minds afterwards was: can L&L Partners even continue as one firm after this?
We have examined several possibilities.
We have reached out to both Luthra and Saraf but neither has responded with a comment at the time of publication.
Background: The pre-existing partnership deed
As we had reported in our story last week the (legal) crux of the disagreement between Luthra and Saraf comes down to the partnership deed they had entered into around 1999.
That deed had been circulated amongst all the partners during the months-long discussions about how (and whether) equity at the firm should be opened up.
According to that old partnership deed, as amended at least once, Luthra holds 66.6% of equity, while Saraf holds 33.4%.
The deed also covers a whole range of other issues between them, including retirement age (80 in the case of Luthra), the inheritance of Luthra’s equity by his family, if he should pass away before retirement, and under which circumstances each side could leave the partnership.
Option 1: No irretrievable breakdown
To many, yesterday’s call was evidence of an irretrievable breakdown of relations between Luthra and Saraf, which would make it very hard for them to jointly run the law firm as they had for more than two decades.
Whether rapprochement between them is still possible is very much a question of fact and one that no one will really know the answer to right now.
But in case they do make up on a personal level, there are two options.
Option 1a: Business as usual, for a while
If the firm did not break up but the equity did also not open up soon (or did not open up as much as some of the partnership and Saraf now expect), a number of scenarios could go down.
Most worryingly could be the loss of more partners, potentially many more, than the firm had been haemorrhaging for nearly a decade anyway.
Saraf’s internal pitch to partners and Luthra about equity had been that it would get increasingly harder for the firm to compete for talent without equity on the table.
According to rival firms and also partners at L&L, many CVs are currently in the market and people are definitely examining their options, which could include mass defections of entire teams (such as the one seen when nearly the entire capital markets team walked to IndusLaw).
Option 1b: Not business as usual
Considering their fundamental differences of opinion, if Saraf and Luthra stay united, realistically there would be significant pressure from Saraf and several other of the L&L equity hopefuls for Luthra to open up the equity more widely than he had currently proposed.
There would also likely be pressure on Luthra to drop and amend some of the other terms of the 1999 deed, and might result in significant dilution of Luthra’s (and also, to a lesser extent Saraf’s) equity.
If everyone were able to come to the same table and document, that might end up being the least disruptive scenario for the firm and ironically the way that business were to remain as usual, for most.
Option 2: The break-up scenarios
If Luthra and Saraf do not eventually make up, it would very quickly turn from a question of fact into several questions of law and tricky ones at that.
Option 2a: Fair re-division
Like the most infamous other law firm break up of recent memories - the Shroff vs Shroff saga - this one could get complicated.
Unlike in Shroff vs Shroff, which were several separate partnerships that had different ownerships by each brother, Luthra has a majority stake and all offices and fee-earners are under the same umbrella.
However, the partnership deed itself contains several complications.
For one, neither side has the power to remove the other side from the partnership.
From what we understand from sources, if Luthra were to leave the partnership for instance, both sides can agree for Saraf to pay Luthra a goodwill payment for the L&L Partners and the (former) Luthra & Luthra Law Offices brand. All fee-earners and clients would also remain with the firm, in such a case.
But under the deed, Luthra would only be entitled to this goodwill payment (calculated according to a formula) if he did not practice law anymore, which might be an unpalatable outcome for him.
On the flipside, since Saraf owns a third of the firm that owns the brand name, Luthra would not be able to lay exclusive claim to the brand either, without Saraf’s agreement.
In short, the deed as written in 1999, likely would not allow for a division that would be mutually acceptable and satisfactory to both parties nowadays, now having more than 300 lawyers, without significant negotiations.
If both sides were to be able to meet at a negotiating table to hash this out, it would be the least disruptive break-up.
Option 2b: Let the courts try their hand
The far worse outcome, perhaps for all concerned, would be a legal battle in the courts.
And although judges are often loathe to let public spats between lawyers drag on too long in the courts, it could still end up being a damaging and sub-optimal outcome for the firm’s lawyers.
And considering the lack of an obvious and envisaged division strategy in the deed (as outlined above), both sides might have to ultimately mediate and settle for a solution anyway.
Option 2c: Saraf & Co splits in some way
Another possible outcome that some are saying could be a possibility is that Saraf and other disaffected partners leave en masse and start a new firm.
That too would be messy and there would likely still be a dispute between Luthra and Saraf about who owns the L&L brand name.
Fork in the road
Whatever will eventually happen, it is clear that yesterday’s Zoom call represents a fork in the road for L&L Partners that will alter its future significantly.
Exactly which road it will go down is impossible to know right now.
At the same time it’s worth remembering that partnership disputes in Indian law firms may be really messy but life usually goes on in some way or another.
And if you look at Shroff vs Shroff, arguably both firms are doing better separately now than they had been while they were still together.
Comments
You keep desperately trying to bury Rajiv after you went to him with a begging bowl to sponsor LegallyIndia and he had to point out to you how that would be unethical.
The Partnership Deed is iron clad in his favour with Rajiv's veto powers and your friend Mohit knows that. He doesn't have 250 crores to pay for Rajiv's exit so you can forget about being his lapdog and putting his leaks on your site.
How do you sleep at night trying to screw people over who build entire institutions over thirty years?
How fair is it that RKL mandates he should retire at 75 while others at 65. How fair is it that RKL mandates his family NEEDS pension after retirement but others don’t. How fair is it that RKL mandates his family is important enough that they should be able to call on Equity at anytime in future in perpetuity to become equity owners while others shouldn’t. How fair is it that RKL has determined that he is so honest that his actions / expenses should never be questioned while others should be questioned and publicly named and shamed even if they miss sending an email that they have finished their billings for the week.
These are just some of his outrageous demands. And when asked very vey respectfully to reconsider, a tantrum is thrown and people threatened that I will terminate the firm. And people spreading his falsehoods and drama are effectively part of his Goebbels team. Be better. Remember he is not your owner. You are an individual with your own rights. God has given you a mind. Think and act. Get over your feudal serfdom and don’t enable him to practice “divide and rule”.
So yes, MS sending out the deeds today was very relevant. It showed the reality of the partnership, and that Big Man's empty threats of dissolution have no basis in law.
Good for the goose is what should be good for the gander. So let him not hold onto equity because of historical rights. Let him show he is worth a cent even today and then take those cents.
Also, what about the part where he said that the Corp meeting Partners agreed that litigation quality was pathetic? And that all the 'good associates' will leave and you will be left with the 'ghatiya associates'? Speak about leading the pack. It definitely inspires confidence in the youngsters listening in.
But I guess as long as it helps you gain some ground, anything goes right?
And exactly like bullies as soon as Mohit stood up to them, they retreated back into the rat hole they came from talking about the partnership deed. All talk of morality, truth and ethics quickly forgotten.
A bunch of bigger jokers than the 4 would be difficult to find that evening.
So when the other man has the backing of his 'yes men', its perfectly cool. But when the big man gets support, its unthinkable. Double standards much.
Your info is mixed up the wrong way.
Your logic suggests that evolution and growth in relationships between people is something to be frowned upon and that classism is a concept one should work towards.
Get your head out of his ass.
Say what!!!
Dialogue credits: Movie Welcome.
Fear not RKL, the ones that matter in the firm and outside are with you. You should give the man [...] and set him on his way. He will be back to riding that bajaj chetak scooter pretty soon while you and those who stay with you will eventually be driving them Teslas!
More power to you Thudd darling!! Stomp em hard!!
Even Luthra & Luthra was the property of the firm and was not his personal property. He was paid for it.
So go back Charlie. Pick another biscuit from daddy’s lap and see if it can survive the heat. This one crumbled quite quickly.
Who told you that Luthra & Luthra is property of the firm? And also, who paid for it?
You clearly don't know anything so stop commenting.
I have some biscuit crumbs lying for you.
He always sells the same story to every person everytime. The same judiciary story, the same 80-20 story and his something bravery award. And he also has a gang of chamchas (we all know who they are) who bloat his ego and are surely fuelling the fire now.
RKL is clearly the Ceasar here, but is MS Brutus or Cassius? More of both I would say..a dangerous combo. All hearts are out to RKL, the crazy gentleman, who is facing all these knives by MS plot.
10 years here and you still haven't figured this out? I've been here for 6 years and this idea has always been constant. Do you also belong to one of the EC partnered teams or a flankee team?
It is unfortunate to say this, but RKL on account of his health, and other issues, just does not have the ability to work full time and run a firm. And if MS stays stuck with RKL, it will always put a spanner in things. The 80 years Retirement age mentioned in The deed is just a number, he anyway gave up any active legal work / management, atleast 7-8 years ago.
Good luck to you MS - you know you have my best wishes.
Only piece of advice to MS. It’s a fact that many folks in your camp including partners, have actively applied out and looking for a job change. Pls make sure you know who is being authentic with you before you plan next steps.
The argument, typically raised by such unethical people is that they have given decade of their time, on the promise of equity. But please also understand, you are not the only one who spent this much amount of time, a lot more people did the same in the past. If they haven't received the equity, then obviously, they left. You are still banging your head against the wall, and jeopardizing the entire future of the firm. I will tell you the real reason, which subconsciously everyone knows, that it will be difficult for such unethical people to survive anywhere except Luthra (be it entering office at odd hours or playing with pets in office). There are real partners sitting in some of the top most, and even tier 2 firms, who can beat the crap out of faffing. So beat your drumdrolls elsewhere.
Kian, please publish this. If the management (I mean only RKL and MS) is reading this, they would try to figure out the difference, and churn out the unethical people who are main causes of the problem. You can say that things have escalated so much that it will likely cause a split, but I assure you that there have been bigger differences between RKL and MS in past, which were sorted out, as long as they keep rest of the minions out of the discussion. Ultimately, its their firm, and however bad, the spat is, no one wants to leave their biggest source of revenue hanging in dry, just to satisfy their ego.
Piece of advice to MS: Don't trust one person exclusively, even if you want to form a separate law firm. Ensure that corporate partners are trained equally so that power or exclusive domain doesn't lie at one place (be it FEMA, Company law). Of course, to avoid similar fiasco in your firm, as people are capable to pulling such stunt there too.
PPP suna hai?
“As per Indian living standard” please read the full thing man
And don’t come back and comment your idiocy here
Please Google it
@Corporate partners:
In a meeting called to express concern over deferral announced in litigation, it is amusing how the best solution you guys came up with was to disassociate yourselves from litigation. 30 of you are exaclty the same person you are now accusing the two equity partners are of. You voted because you knew MS wants this and if MS is happy someday you might also get the elusive equity. Notable mention to the two corporate partners who were expressing their fake concern over the call. The two of you and remaining folks did not even think for a minute about the potential disruption your decision will cause to the jobs, and even lives of folks before agreeing to the proposal - all because you could benefit out of it. If the tables have now turned, and you guys are also feeling the heat, the shallow person in me cannot help but be happy.
All this singing and dancing is about money and more money and nothing else. At least be honest about it.
Secondly, I didn't see any litigation partners having the basic courtesy to say that this discussion was not something that should be had in front of associates, let alone raise their voices against the pay cut when it happened, so please take your holier-than-thou attitude. Clearly even marshalling of facts won't help your case which is why you're inventing facts to hang around on the comments section of a gossip website.
Both were shut down by the seniors.
And RKL was there so why would people feel pressure about toeing MS’ line. Could it be because they knew RKL doesn’t care, RKL is a “chikna ghada” who would side on basis of convenience and that ultimately the Firm is owned and managed by Mohit and Rajiv is a figurehead.
The sorry attempt to malign Mohit and certain others as greedy is laughable. Because they have had a sense of ownership and commitment to the franchise, today you hold that against them. It is you guys who are selfish. Because you are not capable of hard work yourself or deserving of equity and would prefer the current apple cart cause you have no hope outside of L&L, you think others should have no right to grow, no ambition, no desire to have the place they identify with being counted amongst top places to work. You are just pure and simple shameless and selfish.
That RKL and MS have been on each other’s throats has been known amongst all except the cats who shut their eyes and hope no one noticed. Unfortunately for the cats, others noticed. Also unfortunate for the cats, that their luxuriating behavior was also noticed and a tight whack was given to them to shape up or ship out.
What was not known was the reason for the fight and over last few months (July onwards o think) most are aware of that also. RKL’s inability to add value coupled with his unparalleled ability to destroy whatever gets built. Case in point is his constant requirement that a “bonus” he paid [...]. Clients run away. But the Man refuses to even regret his action.
Leave aside RKL v MS for a moment, but no one can deny that the said three men have triple handedly destroyed 1/3rd of the firm's prospects, and much more of the firm's reputation.
Someone as hardworking, honest and collegial as Anshul Who gave 10
+ years of his life to the firm, was always treated poorly. Now he is an EP at PWC !! With every major partner exit LnL has struggled to fill the void.
U see if every legal development / conference / seminar / TV interview ranging from sebi laws to e comm to labour, has the same young partner EVERYWHERE - it just shows how there are not enough good practice leads at LnL, and they are already struggling to show bench strength and depth of practice. [...]
By isolating Mohit and key performing partners - is RKL confident he can run the firm without them ?
Tell me the last time RKL reviewed an agreement / Legal opinion, or got involved in the recovery MIS or even did any proactive admin work.
Ps: I am one of the Partners whose name is referred here.
[...]
RKL's Angle - Points to Note:
You know how much time is spent to build a reputation of a firm. Thousands, I would say, millions, in the same industry would struggle to get that name. RKL, and of course with MS, built this name. And it is very easy for other partners to say democracy, blah blah, but you were given everything on a platter (I mean brand name already existed for everyone who joined this firm). So, in your right mind, dont give this argument that RKL has not reviewed a single agreement/ legal opinion. You hardly have any idea on how much amount of time was spent during their struggle days, and if it means that he should hold the stake for the rest of his life, then be it. You should have read the partnership deed when you joined the firm or may be discussed the equity when PPO was given to you. If the discussion is about MS, then it is understandable since both of them did everything to built this name, but key performing partners, please stay out of it.
Hell the Shroffs have senior members of the profession like Gunjan, LV, Jatin virtually reporting to son in law NC and daughter in law. Stripes not earned but inherited or married into.
RKL mei itna dum nahi bacha ab.
MS mei kitna dum hai ab dekhne ko milega - whether he has the wherewithal to build something out of this (mind you - if not now, never).
The three Lit guys (CSS) are a waste of space and have no vision, and the near exodus of an entire team over the last few months (yes you know exactly which team) stands testimony to that.
But yes, it depends on whom you're working under. There are many who have no ego tussles and are very good to their juniors and really good mentors But that's also true for most places.
Let the lunatics fight over rubbish and worse here in the comments section. The smart associates are busy dialing hunters.
BTW Kian have you not asked if there are any inexactitude of subordinate details of shit hitting the roof as portrayed in the story?
1. It's a great firm with an excellent vibe. The Senior Partners have all been extremely supportive to most youngsters and created some very fine lawyers.
[b]2. All the negative comments here have more of a negative impact on the 300 odd lawyers working there than the spat itself. Spare them the horror. And those commenting on L&L work, pls stop commenting and try getting some of your own. May be if you go read law you'd become 1/10th of the lawyers that you can't stop talking about here, under the garb of anonymity. [/b]
3. Disputes are common. Of course, it could have been done with more grace on either side but that doesn't make the firm or any of its lawyers any lesser. Stop berating people and spewing venom.
Yes the firm has been promising us equity lockstep for years now - but people have been working on knowing that it may never happen - those calculations are factored in when people float themselves in laterally at the highest level. Yes they should ideally professionalise the firm and both MS & RKL are to blame for inaction on that front; MS is now seeking to change the narrative to "RKL has screwed us all over" and "All v RKL".
It should be kept in mind that RKL started the firm in 1990 as a sole proprietorship and MS joined him much much later - 1999 is when the vehicle was changed from a proprietorship to a 66 - 34 partnership between RKL & MS. Now whether or not MS thinks RKL deserves 66 or not, the fact is he has a 66 percent stake, even today. Further RKL is the real rainmaker - MS is the executor and brings his own strengths to the table but 8 out of 10 of the firm's top billing clients were PERSONALLY engaged by RKL. A large number of desertions took place while RKL was in Singapore for his brain surgery - People do not like MS - He is seen as a cold calculating "master" - The naukar/owner parallel drawn by MS on the call is in fact applicable to the relationship between MS & people down the ladder. He treats people as resources to be milked; shouts at associates and partners as if they are his personal slaves. While some call this as a necessary part of modern corporate life, RKL brings the human touch to the firm - People, at the lowest and highest levels, join the firm for RKL not MS. That alone indicates which way this dispute is going to go. Here's hoping the firm sticks together with both RKL & MS in it. Here's a suggestion - 66 34 should come down PRO RATA to 44 23 and the 33 which opens up should be shared between remaining partners
Above would make clear that you are not from L&L. You are merely trying to add to anguish and confusion by adding your fake 2 bits.
This is also clear by the fact that anyone who attended the call knows that the mud-slinging started off by RKL and Bobby by demeaning Mohit and then RKL started handing out character certificates to himself. Once he set the agenda by speaking on these areas, he invited trouble. The Mining Services Company and the Financial Services Company were references he brought in to say how he has character certificates along with a case for defamation and some MIT approved transcripts.
So do us all a favor and stop commenting here. People are anguished and need peace.
As to the founder bit of your useless comment, there was a proprietorship before 1999. But in 1999 that proprietary concern did not convert into and become Luthra & Luthra. The Proprietary Concern continued. So there was no transfer or business and Luthra & Luthra did not succeed to any business. Therefore, the founding rights are to both. Rajiv Luthra’s sole claim to founding a firm was vis-à-vis the proprietorship concern and cannot be towards the partnership concern. That he has been allowed to have the right to say it for 2 decades speaks to Mohit’s large heartedness and that Rajiv goes into a fit denying Mohit his rightful claim to founding the firm, speaks to his unjust attitude.
That Rajiv Luthra would be willing to destroy the firm and 300 + lives to satisfy his lust, also speaks to his ego and selfishness.
Also, I pray to Govt. to allow foreign firms in India to stop these Indian drama kings running law firms.
a) the firm lacks [...]. Just going by the immature behaviour of the seniors and the quality of the comments - both in substance and form, which I assume are by the juniors. Why did we ever consider Luthra a credible competitor all these years?
b) the number of times that [...] within the firm is being alluded to - if I were a decent client, I would run a mile. Something very rotten in Denmark.
c) feel sorry for the associates. [...] All senior partners of the firm sound like bad news to me - any amount of restructuring is not going to solve the core issue of not being a quality firm. People who have offer letters - please pass.
d) People in AZB CAM SAM KCO - thank your lucky stars that you have better leaders, albeit being family firms.
e) Leaders of AZB CAM SAM KCO - this could happen to you. Try and institutionalise before it is too late and value gets destroyed
A very shoddy attempt at that which would make even the leaders of this type of narrative building (ala [...]) cringe and run away.
The issue which needed discussion and closure is how much do corp partners contribute versus how much does Rajiv contribute versus how much does Mohit contribute and consequently what should be a reasonable distribution of the spoils. Clearly in this discussion Rajiv would have lost so he moved the goal post to how he is entitled as per partnership deed and showed the entire office that he holds their retainer agreements in his custody and has been studying them to be able to exercise HIS rights. A clear and obvious as day light threat to all.
Obvious to everyone that Rajiv won’t work with anybody who is not a Yes Man. So what is needed is a split. Can Rajiv at least do this amicably; can we at least have a career away from his feudal [...] narrow short term personality?
This is damning and goes on to prove that all the star exits and expulsions had Big man’s sign off contrary to what he would always claim (that it was MS’s sole decision and he couldn’t interfere).
RKL on the other hand, before anyone joins, takes time out to get to know the person. He has a proper 30-40 mins conversation. Then he even invites them to lunch.
On the other hand, the first time some young associates interacted with him was when he called them on a video call and blasted them to not be doing work during the months of April and May. This was done under the garb of doing 'appraisals'! Is it the junior associate's responsibility to be doing client development? And that too when almost universally work had dried up in a pandemic?!
So all the young guns infatuated by the just and fair MS, please wait to see this side of his.
Mind you, this is when he claims to be a 'hands on' lawyer whose favourite part of his job is to be 'interacting and working with young lawyers'
For all those in Bombay singing praises, you do not know what it's like to have MS hovering over you.
RKL has no interest in the well-being of people. All he cares about is money, and therefore the latching onto the partnership deed. All these moral and legal bombast about his rights are meaningless when seen in context of his actions. He offered to dilute 4:1 at all times but as we came close to a deal, he would change goal posts because the intent is not to agree to a deal but to string people along and then suddenly start a new discussion.
Had he been interested in the firm or any of the principles he wishes to espouse and make the firm stand for, he would not have been holding dissolution on everyone’s head, he would not have said multiple times “I WILL LEAVE, GIVE ME MY MONEY”. He even admitted in the Townhall that had Mohit been willing to pay money, he would have left. So clearly there is no higher principle here. For him its just money money money – all without accountability.
Had he cared for the firm, he would not be refusing to transfer Luthra.com to the firm. Had he cared for the firm, in this day and age, he would not have created a vide which showed him alone as the only leader of the Firm, even crass family owned firms like to show case more depth. At L&L in Rajiv’s world, he would rather lie than acknowledge others.
Had he cared for the firm, he would have been actively in management and would have controlled the so-called excesses of Mohit. Obviously he has not been in management, and in any case he was not disagreeing with MS’ actions. And why was he not disagreeing, because unlike the recent narrative he is building, MS’ actions are not excessive, they are at times erroneous but which no one is beyond fault about.
On litigation side, similarly, to MS, it is the 3 CSS who have run the show. RKL has merely counted the chickens. Like in Corp, he is consulted and made aware in litigation also. So long as his money increases and / or is protected, he has never bothered to stop anything. Case in point is the deferrals in litigation. He was fully aware, again by his and Bobby’s admissions but he chose to not listen to a counter-point as that would affect his wealth. When shit show happened, he tried deflecting blame by putting it on the 3 and not owning up to his complicity. Like all of corp’s miseries are blamed solely on MS and no ownership is taken by him.
So please lets call a spade a spade and acknowledge that while MS or the CSS bunch may not be altruistic here, the real reason for this mess is RKL and his [...]. If someone were to show him a 100 crore today, he would abandon everyone and leave. There are no principles for him, except the principal which adds up in his bank account and net-worth statement.
But do with some dignity. Why are you making brother fight with brother. Why make Bobby fight with MS. Why. Why.
Saath baith ke baat kar lo, and reasonable sum leke hum sab ko chodo. Why play with our lives. Aap ko kiss cheej ki kami hai. Abhi bhi sab tabah nahi hua hai, take your money as per the terms of the 3 deeds and leave. Mujhe pata hai there is Delhi Corp, India Litigation and Mumbai Corp. Agar koi do – teen aur hai, to unki bhi respective deeds ke hisaab se lo, aur jao.
CSS and MS can manage to sort their issues so long as you are not there to fan the fire. Kitna shameless kaam kiya aapne on Thursday by forcing CSS to rail against MS in public.
Hum logon ke baare me socho Sir, kuch to socho.
How much do A0, A1, A2, A3 and SA make in a year?
Please consider this request and help, everyone needs help - Associates at Luthra need help. We at law school need help. And in the name of help, I ask for some information - to curb the informational asymmetry that exist.
Hoping for the best.
We all know that MS had requested RKL to not call for the Zoom meeting with the entire Firm present! But as is the wont when the end is nigh this suggestion was rebuffed. It was absolutely ridiculous of somebody who is apparently the Managing Partner of the Firm to shoot out of his mouth aided and abetted by his 3 ‘not so wise’ men from Lit. Of course MS retaliated and things became ugly. Should it have happened- absolutely not! Was it surprising- NO WAY!!! For all the trolls here- if you think RKL did not know the repercussions and ramifications of having the public meeting, I have 3 letters for you- LOL....
RKL hasn’t bothered to even offer a token apology to the associates- who btw had no idea till Thursday that things were this bad. The morale has taken a massive hit because of RKL’s actions. Let this be clear.
With respect to the troll army calling out for MS’s ouster- Please don’t be naive!! We have all seen the deed! First of all it seems like LI commentators- at least some of them at any rate- really needs a lesson on interpretation of provisions. It is very clear that the rights to the brand and clients belong to both of them! How can you believe that one will just pack their bags and leave!!
The last thing to all fellow associates and retainers in other law firms- we were there in the meeting! We have read the trust deed! Stop sending us screenshots from the article or forwarding us messages of purportedly what happened! We know it better than you. Spare some thought in these difficult times for our mental health! The Zoom call initiated by RKL despite MS’ request of not holding it was bad enough... we don’t need your support in understanding what transpired. At the risk of repetition, we were there!!!
We have been made to wait for so many months without joining and now this has happened
We don’t know if we should wait patiently for the firm or just return our 50k and look elsewhere
Try and get that promotion sooner!
Face it, neither of you are great or nice, and certainly not god's gift to mankind. Clients and your minions aren't going to be running after you or falling at your feet forever while you two blabber on about each other's evil designs. They will get bored and leave. Even LI may stop reporting this! So wake up, and smell the coffee!
Someone made a comment, that if one wants to see what the firm would have been without MS, just look at Luthra's CA firm. As far as I know that firm isn't a major [...], RKL's brother's primary vocation is/was Golf - in fact, he was at one time good enough to play for India (got a gold medal at the Asiads - I think). So comparing with that is irrelvant.
Neverthless, I agree, that the perpetual family provisions of the deed are something, I wouldn't appreciate and that shouldn't have been in the case for any firm aiming to be professional. What was MS doing in 1999 - obviously being selfish for himself then, and being selfish now.
As to you don’t need a MP who knows law, well good for you. Most of us wish for that to be there. Atleast you would like a MP who knew how to manage and operate. Did you ever feel that. If you were so swayed by him, why did you runaway. Sau choohe kha ke billi etc etc etc - in these wokey liberal times better not to finish.
MS on the other hand- money-money-money.... doesnt care. He is quick to dismiss. Arrogant, self centered and simply runs on venom spewed in his ear by [...] sycophants.
Its clear that which way the wind will blow.
On the other hand look at Indus. The founding partners have no qualms in seeing Manan being rated as a hotshot lawyer (vis-a-vis them) and they are happy to spread the word!
See: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/indus-law_asialaw-rankings-leadinglawyers-activity-6715173883130990592-YXpw/
#L&L Corp
But I would be doing injustice to RKL if I don’t mention my wonderful interaction w him
(Disclaimer: I’m not trying to use this to hide any other shit behaviour he might’ve displayed in the call or otherwise and in principle support democratisation of decision-making in firms)
I was an intern a few years back in their Delhi office. There were at least 15-20 other interns w me at the time
One day the HR told us that RKL wants to meet each intern individually and we should get ready - we really didn’t know what this meant
Over the next 3-4 evening, RKL interacted with EACH intern individually at least for 5-10 mins
With me personally he had a v v candid and warm convo about careers, my family, his experiences etc etc - and given that I probably seemed a lil shy at the start - he def tried to get me to open up nicely
So idk how he is otherwise as a lawyer/person, but this gesture and the warmth with which he met all interns is not something that ANY other MP/senior partner of a large firm seems to have in this country
However my grouse with him is vis-à-vis the firm. All the charm and amiable personality is great but boundaries needed to be drawn when dealing in a professional set-up. The larger than life attitude does not and in my limited experience did not sway clients and deals. Those, in today’s India, require sheer hard work. Charming personality can act as an icing on the cake but can’t be the cake.
However I am not taking anything away from RKL that he makes people generally feel nice. But it seems, from all stories around now, that all of that is also while people don’t question him. That does put a spoke in his image for me.
And in any case for young lawyers, the chats and the welcome only go that far. Finally they need a boss who takes them through the paces and makes them a great lawyer and that’s where Mr Luthra fails. No wonder even people who admire him including people here on comments have left.
So much for biting the hand that feeds you.
Maybe they should put up a temporary happy face for a while and calm anxious clients and retainers/partners.
All of this makes them look very unreliable.
Please let the batch of 2020 recruits join the firm on time.
Please call us before January if possible
And please give us some assurance and clarity over our offers
It is so stressful for us
We gave up other firms during day 0 when you gave us our offer letters.
We already have to wait for so much longer than the other firms, which have people joining in October.
Please just help us out and let us join!
All the people currently at the firm if they hate it so much have work ex at least. We are freshers in a covid world relying on your word!
Luthra has always suffered from lack of connection with its young associates. A modern-day Marie Antoinette. Time for a revolution, shall we say?
I really feel bad for those who have gotten offers from this place. They chase rankers from top NLUs but have they ever stopped and considered if their firm even deserve talent?
Every Indian firm is "weirdly different from the other top firms"
Each gives that vibe
Don't be fooled.
Each has nepotism / power dynamics
Happens when there's big money involved
Not something Indian firms invented
It happened ...........even at Pearson Hardman :( :( :( :(
Gordon Schmidt Van Dyke ....... start
Pearson Hardman .................... coup #1
Pearson .................................... coup #2
Pearson Darby ......................... new beginnings
Pearson Specter ...................... coup # 3
Pearson Specter Litt ................ promotion
At the end they all survive & make money. Keep calm & do your work.
@ Eye roll, are you from Luthra?
We are quite desperate obviously because we are sitting at home and all our friends are working in other firms.
A lot of us are relying on this job very heavily in terms of easing our financial burdens
Not to mention what this means for our career if we wait 6 months just to have our offers cancelled when all other major firms have a hiring freeze
Luthra pays you more than CAM/SAM/Khaitan. At Luthra an A0 earns more than A2 in CAM/SAM/Khaitan
But yaa luthra def pays more than CAM/SAM/Trilegal at junior levels
And this is the toppers of top NLUs buckle and v often end up at Luthra for a couple thousand extra bucks per month
And this is all inclusive and official - it’s their on their contract
So idk what you’re taking about now
But none of that matters, please let us join and please honour our offers
Some communication to ease us of our worries man!!!
Please someone from Luthra, give us some assurance!
1. Mr. Luthra started a sole proprietorship and built the practice single handedly until he was joined by MS;
2. Were there individuals or employees who contributed in building the sole proprietorship, yes they were, but these individuals were compensated for their services;
3. MS's contribution was rewarded by the fact that the firm was remodeled to a partnership and hence MS was compensated for all his efforts;
4. Giving equity is simply a business call, whereby there is a cost benefit analysis which needs to be undertaken. i.e. the cost of diluting vis-a-vis the benefit of retaining talent;
5. For L&L, the cost of giving equity must have always outweighed the benefits and hence they never actually diluted and no equity was given. Could this have hurt them, yes, but ultimately it's a business decision, nothing more and nothing less;
6. People assume that other firms turned into an equity structure because of alltruism but that is incorrect. They either started from an equity model or they turned to an equity model because that made business sense for the firm. Look at the early equity partners in other firms and you will see that the equity partners had their own standing. i.e. The Baruchas at erstwhile Amarchand etc.
7. People are going hulaboo over the retirement benefits or family protections that Mr. Luthra had sought. I don't understand how is that different from any promoter driven business;
8. Essentially, there is a difference between promoter/shareholders/partners on one hand and employees on the other. If this was some other business would the employees have an issue if the shareholders had provision for payment of dividend which was extra ordinary in nature, as long as it met the Companies Act requirement. They could but the law wouldn't care because that isn't their decision or place;
9. Equity Partnership in India is a joke. There is no buy-in whether with cash or kind. So obviously what a newly made equity partner would get is a pittance;
10. So I suggest stop this mentality to expect that equity is a given right, it's not, just choose a model where giving equity forms part of their business calculations, or even better, run your own practice.
The market is the greatest leveller. If they need to loosen equity strings because that would increase business, they would, if not, then they would not.
Further, you seem to imply that diluting equity and adding equity partners is the only way to grow a practice. That's absolute hogwash.
There are multiple ways to grow a practice and multiple data points you can choose. You can chase revenue but that may not necessarily mean you have increased profitability or simply choose to have a smaller equity base where with lower aggregate revenue you can still be more profitable.
If you run your own PnL you would understand the above in a jiffy and realize that while you may consider SAM/CAM to be the best run practices because they project higher revenue smaller firms like NDA, P&A, Platinum would be much more profitable practices.
Finally, I suggest get of your high horse where you feel that legal services are superior to producing/seller a F&B Product( Bhujia in this case).
No business/vocation is superior to the other, it is simply what you can achieve while undertaking the said business/vocation.
Trust me I know the uncertainty is killing you
But BREATHE
Trust me anyone powerful/connected enough to have any idea to know what this firms future is gonna be like isn’t sitting around and ans your ques here
So it’s ultra pointless asking this as much as I know you’re v anxious
But also please remember even during the Amarchand spilt I don’t think any jobs were lost (as far as I know)
Regardless relax and breathe
And best of luck
And what are the chances of them revoking offers?
We’ve been waiting since July no so obviously we would like to know what are the scenarios where our job will not be there
But LI comments is literally the worst place to ask this - cause the chances of getting baseless misinformation (on this topic) are FAR greater then accurate info
So relax and stop asking here
C'mon, suggest some firms?
no influential dad or husband or father-in-law. no south bombay sitting on it third generation.
no flattering and policking and getting by without ever having read a draft for the last 7 years : like many so-called equity partners at the top 3 firms.
wish them the best- they have worked hard which is more than we can say for many inheritors including second/third generation old bombay firms. a sad end to grand beginnings.
For me, L&L was always Mr. Luthra's larger than life personality complemented by the ruthless efficiency of Mr. Saraf. You need both to make it work.
I have personally experienced Mr. Luthra's generosity (when he didn't have to extend it to me) and will forever be grateful for his kind gesture. The hostility and personal attack that I see in some the comments on this forum are deplorable.
https://www.barandbench.com/news/corporate/rajiv-luthra-ready-to-kick-start-dilution-of-his-equity-stake