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PG legal education courses

AnonymousLLB 2 Jan 2013, 13:15

I joined the Thomson Reuters Legal Advancement Program courtesy to the advertisement on this site and Lawctopus. Here are my thoughts.

Intro to the course:

I registered for the info session. I then took part in a massive tele- conference where all info about this course was elucidated by a serious sounding guy. I was told that I shall be given full support, teaching aids during the course and he also mentioned about some online library or repository.

Overall the info session was a nice feel good session which left a nice impression about the course to the conference-participants. He also mentioned that there will be periodic live sessions which will give us relevant inputs regarding the course.Also a guy from UK also participated in the info session which gave an “international feel” to the course.

The Experience:

First, there was a live session regarding the course and how to navigate through the lessons. Also,an online test as conducted for which I scored pretty poorly. At the end of the test I was assured that by the end of the course, I shall be fully equipped to take on the lawyering world.

Then, the course started and thus officially began the nightmare which would consume me for more than four months.

The amount of technical snags, bugs, glitches; etc was humongous. Answers may not register correctly, frequent disconnections (which they blamed on my net which is in fact 4 mbps) and many more. I could write a book on this.

All the online lessons in every subject involve a guy telling you to do everything “clearly and unambiguously”. It gets irritating after some time. Apart from some basic legal concepts, this course really did not contain much law. As a legal writing course too it is not up to the mark. Its “clearly and unambiguously” all over again.

There is very little technicality in this course. The do introduce the student to some legal documents (plaints, written statements,etc) with some basic concepts, but they do not go into much detail. Chances are the legal writing/drafting classes in your college is much better than this. Its rather more like an English writing course (a poorly done one) rather than a legal writing course.

The online exams were the worst of all. The answers were very ambiguous. I’m sure that almost everyone who took this course solved the answers through trial and error where-ever possible. The fill in the blanks questions are also a joke.

For example, in one question I answered with a word starting with a capital letter. It was shown as a wrong answer. I was sure about the answer so I answered in small letters and voila, the answer registered as right. 80% of the time which I spent for this course, I was trying to work around issues like theses.

Also, if you do not know an answer and if you cannot find it through trial and error or any other method, you’ll never know. There is no answer key or any kind of guidance offered. I have given my thoughts on the support team in a later para.

The online library/ repository consists of the same online lessons and the drafts of the same. Some career guidance pdfs, podcasts, etc are also given. They are not really useful regarding the course and you can find much better stuff for free on Google.

The support through telephone was depressing. It is similar to the support from Airtel/Vodafone call-centers and you have to go through a number of people to get through to the required person.

Also, you’ll be out of luck if you call on a Sunday. One of the students was connected to some legal expert guy from UK. However, he/she said that it was not of any particular help.

Also you’ll also get frequent bullying messages from them which say that – if you do not complete this course within a certain amount of time you shall not be allowed to write the final exam,blah,blah.. During the course, they did acknowledge that there were technical faults.

Progression through the course was also a nightmare. There were levels of progression. I do not want to get into this as it’ll probably run into pages. For more info on this, please consult a previous student. He’ll tell you horror stories which contain terms such as “evaluating advocacy” and “evaluating effectiveness”.

One good thing which I have to say is that the periodic live sessions were good. I think it involved people from outside Thomson Reuters. However, the live-sessions were very general and did not help the course much. The session on career-guidance was excellent.

One more thing, the second batch commenced before the first batch finished. Also, application process for the third batch started just some time after the second batch. So I think this course is still in the process of evaluation by the student community.

There is indeed more to say but I think I’ve made my point. I do not want anyone to judge/assess this course only based on my review. Even so, please do talk to students who have already completed this, before you make a step.

Overall, for me, this course = Rs. 15k + “all the time which I wasted doing this course over the past few months” in the gutter/drain/trash can/borewell/fire. Please do not assess my review based on my writing or anything but I just felt the need to write something when I saw the above comments. My point is that I am not one among the “150 satisfied students”. If you are a satisfied student please do submit a positive review. I and many others would love to read it.

P.S – The module on legal research is mostly an advertisement on Westlaw. Funniest of all, they have questions on Westlaw in the Final Exam. Also, most of the info, which is provided by all modules, is the kind of stuff which you can easily find on Google.

14 Replies

AnonymousLLB 10 Jan 2013, 08:40

Thank you for your detailed feedback. We take user feedback very seriously and constantly endeavor to improve the Legal Advancement Program. In most cases, we are able to address concerns as and when they are reported during the course of the program. So that we are able to better understand and address some of the specific concerns you raise, we would encourage you to contact us at: (lap.admin[at-the-rate-of]thomsonreuters[dot]com

) Regards

Team LAP

AnonymousLLB 14 Jan 2013, 12:18

You should then file a consumer complaint. I can support your cause by drafting and filing the case. You may contact me at 9953736844.

AnonymousLLB 23 Mar 2013, 10:44

Everything the person above me said is right. I’ve somehow (after a gazillion tries) managed to finish the damned assessments, and am about to give the finals today. Except I’m about 80% sure that I’ll fail, because of stupid things like those people not accepting synonyms. (‘No, you have to definitely write that your client has nothing NEW to add to their case, and not anything ELSE to add to it, or anything MORE to add to it…’) The customer care was extremely unhelpful. Well, the guy on the phone was always polite, but the whole bunch is a very confused lot, unsure of their own policies. Also, they’ve never replied to a single email of mine. Like, not even once.

I never attended a single session because it was all so lame and generally boring. I don’t go to a very good law school (maybe top 15), but the guest lecturers did a much better job of teaching me everything. The English lessons suck. There are grammatical errors in the questions framed and all of the emails sent by the customer care team (which makes me wonder if the Legal Advancement Programme in the UK is also quite as sketchy, or if it was done specially for us idiotic Indians).

If you have a lot, and I mean a LOT, of money, sign up for this course. You could also do it to test your patience and wash off karmic sins, because LAP sure will make you suffer a lot. If you’d rather just keep the money and your hair, don’t sign up for the course.

I’m considering filing a consumer complaint in a forum soon. 15.5 k is a very large amount of money, and I don’t think the certificate will be worth it. Let’s see how the exam goes…

PS- They’d better not have Westlaw on the final exams. That’s ridiculous! The stupidest thing was, they provide you with access to Westlaw India (which only hosts Indian cases and laws) and then asked you to research Australian laws and cases on one of the assessments. Classic facepalm situation.

aninditachaudhary 29 Mar 2013, 19:30

Thank God.. Saved my money from being wasted.

AnonymousLLB 4 Apr 2013, 22:58

I have taken three extra courses in the last two years. This one was the most promising as well as the most disappointing one. I learnt nothing worthwhile from the course at all.

I took a course from Rainmaker on sports law - that at least had substantial law to learn from and no complicated procedures and assessments. iPleader and NUJS’s business law course was also a much better experience. Those people actually give you their personal phone numbers, and replies immediately to queries. They don’t allow you to download most of the study material, but at least it is useful to learn. Actually I took this LAP course despite being a online course due to the decent experience of the previous two courses as well as the big name behind the course - and boy, it was a big mistake.

AnonymousLLB 16 Apr 2013, 16:17

Let me begin by saying that although there were significant flaws with the course, if one could understand the essence of what was being taught rather than focus on the negatives and criticise them, one would be able to actually understand there were some positives about this course.

The course structure was well defined and the delivery was highly innovative; using animations and videos to deliver key concepts. The later addition of captions made the understanding a simpler process since then it could be grasped offline as well.

The practice questions were well drafted and although there were some technical and subject matter issues in the beginning, they were very efficiently and effectively resolved.

The division of the course in different levels was also a major plus-point of the course since it emphasised the learning of previous levels in order to progress through the further levels.

Having completed the course, I feel that there are significant learning points and skills that can be achieved through the completion of this course.

Further, another benefit of this course was that based on my performance, I have been given an opportunity to intern with a tier 1 firm in Delhi. This bolsters the credibility of Thomson Reuters as being capable in not only imparting quality skills in the participants but also an opportunity to utilise those skills in the real world.

pranshibargale 16 Apr 2013, 20:32

The Legal Advancement Program offered by Thomson Reuters turned out to be very useful for my overall development as a student of law. When I decided to apply for this program, I was a little doubtful as I was the part of their first edition itself and there were no reviews available to rely on. But I still decided to go ahead and now when the program has successfully concluded, I am very glad that I became a part of it.

One of the best things about this program is that for each topic covered under their sessions, it starts from the grass root level, which is a very big advantage as your basics get strong from these introductory sessions and any law student from the first year also can understand it well. The sessions continue to go up and the difficulty level also rises but for each level there are animated visuals which help you to get through each test which comes at the end of that particular session. The animated visuals make the sessions all the more interesting and prevent you from losing your attention. They also provide the documents for all the sessions in pdf. format which you can easily save and use to prepare for the final test.

The video conferencing sessions arranged for the students which were conducted by renowned personalities in the field of law were very beneficial. The students could ask for any clarifications then and there and the response was always clear and to the point.

LAP provided for much more than they had promised in every way. Their assistance, services, sessions everything was up to the mark and I also got the opportunity to intern with Thomson Reuters which is an added benefit of the course.

The program has helped me to a very great extent and I would suggest that all the law students should take up this program and this won’t be a decision they will regret.

AnonymousLLB 19 Jul 2013, 23:00

The Satisfied Customer is nothing but a proxy agent of Thomson Reuters who is here to defend the case of Thomson Cheater company and time waster company. zI must say that every lawyer who has suffered from LAP should file case on Thomson Reuters.

AnonymousLLB 23 Jul 2013, 00:29

That ur wrongly commented on LAP presently I”ll also doing it but everything is having some merits and demerits. Lap is one of the best course which I ever seen throughout the my llb career becoz it help me lot in developing new approach towards organizations of document as well as review it through sources & other’s checklist. However,my comment will hurt anyone but plz enlighten me it’s my personal opinion on LAP and moreover the lap admin team provde guidance Upto their best but as I already stated that everything contains good and bad.

So,if possible adopt the gud things and keep in mind negatives to avoid them in future.

AnonymousLLB 24 Jul 2013, 02:16

I took the LAP finals a few months ago. It was as big a disappointment as the main course itself. I don’t want to sound like a naysayer. Maybe someone did learn something from LAP. But my advice, as a fourth year law student is, whatever you learn will be negligent. I have been very laid back in college. I did only two national moots, and maybe participated in a couple of essay competitions, but that’s it. And still, just by attending classes regularly, I managed to know everything LAP taught me about contracts, arbitration, CPC … the works. Some other stuff, like court mannerisms etc, you learn through moot court, but anyone who knows anything about these things will tell you that courts in real life (at least in India) don’t work the way Thomson Reuters would have us believe, except for the most basic things. (Really, Thomson Reuters? Are we really supposed to be on time, read our brief beforehand, and be polite to the judge? Wow, that was rocket science. If you hadn’t explained it to me, I would’ve gone to court in a bikini and started throwing F-bombs around. Your wisdom knows no bounds.)

As for the course itself. Here’s been my experience so far:

1. They changed the pass percentage randomly and removed all details from their terms and conditions page when we challenged them.

2. They then randomly changed the weightage of assessments/final test.

3. They told us a portfolio assignment was mandatory, and forced us to submit something silly, but never got back to us with our scores (and, in fact, completely ignored that whole aspect when sending me my final score).

4. Despite numerous emails to customer care, only a few were replied to, and not one of those replies told me what I needed to know (instead insisting I take their call right in the middle of class).

5. Every time I called up customer care, I went through to just one person. Seriously, and he’s not even properly on customer care. He’s on tech support or something. Every time he was unable to reply to my queries, I asked to be directed to someone higher up. I was given the name of someone (whose name starts with N) and asked to call her.

6. N was … well, I’m just very unhappy that all these students’ hard earned money went to her so she could sit at home and ignore our calls/emails, even on crucial days like the exam day. (I’m not lying; I was honestly told that she was vacationing every time I tried to reach her.) On the one occasion that she did take my call, she switched between offensive and defensive tactics, never actually helping me, only focusing on threatening me.

7. So, naturally, I got annoyed and wrote a very bad review at the end of the course on their own website. Someone completely new called me up, asked me why on earth I was angry, heard the whole story, agreed with me that I must’ve been very frustrated because of all of this, agreed that perhaps the course wasn’t very challenging, and told me that, for my trouble, I could get a discount on their next course, which would be even more advanced! I thanks-but-no-thanksed him, and now, many months later, I’m here on this website, sharing my experience so others aren’t duped.

And, seriously? Go through all that rigmarole for a prestigious internship? I don’t even know if anyone was selected from my batch. They had us make a Linkedin profile, but never did follow up after that. They also didn’t take out a proper result list of who passed and who failed (and I’m thinking that a looot of people must’ve failed, owing to the horrible exam … but more on that later), and I decided against calling up customer care to ask for this information.

So, in conclusion, pay attention in classes, do at least one moot (even intra-college), and apply to good firms yourself. Most of them will let you in, if you meet certain criteria. Joining LAP will make no difference either way (and I say this from bitter experience).

PS: I’m not a complete newbie at this stuff; I did do an online course on IPR with FICCI recently, and LAP doesn’t even come close to comparing with that.

PPS: Oh, and the exams were a sham. Mine started a half hour late because of some problem with the centre; my friend’s started an hour and a half late; and my third friend discovered that her exam centre had been razed to the ground and relocated, but LAP didn’t bother to give her a correct address. They gave us extra time to make up for the lateness, but we’re all girls, and we don’t appreciate having to stay out after sundown in weird locations just because LAP can’t get their act together.

AnonymousLLB 24 Jul 2013, 02:30

They should market this course as A Complete Idiot’s Guide to Taking the First Step Into Civil Law, and attach a warning at the end: This course is absolutely useless for anyone who’s going to a semi-decent law school (say, top-30ish) and is capable of reading a Wren and Martin on his or her own.

I think their problem was that they took on too many subjects. CPC, Contracts, Arbitration - all these subjects are pretty vast. You can’t tell a person the merits of arbitration over regular court, then say something about interim injunctions, give a grammar lesson on English, and consider yourself done. There wasn’t a single section, article, or case mentioned by those people. It’s probably better for law students to find areas of their interest and sign up for proper courses on them at well-established institutions. (Like Indian Law Institute, for example.) Yes, it’ll be more challenging, more harrowing, but it will not leave you with a feeling that you just killed half your brain cells trying to make head and tail of the most inane exercises ever.

Web of Trust has given legalcareertraining.com a red rating on trustworthiness and vendor reliability. It’s the worst possible rating, and it adequately sums up internet users’ opinion of this course.

AnonymousLLB 24 Jul 2013, 15:39

I am pretty sure, that Westlaw-India , does have access to International-Journals as well.

Kindly Check.

AnonymousLLB 12 Oct 2013, 17:43

Thanx a lot I was bout to join the course and pay the fee, but I think negative or positive comments cannot be so elaborately stated through depiction of emotion of anger, frustration etc. Thanx a lot guys!!!!

AnonymousLLB 8 Apr 2014, 23:26

[quote=“Dheeraj Kumar” post=6855]You should then file a consumer complaint. I can support your cause by drafting and filing the case. You may contact me at 9953736844.[/quote]