Exclusive: PIL claims MCA discriminates against corp lawyers vis-à-vis accountants in ROC filings

Digital submission
Digital submission

The Ministry of Corporate Affairs (MCA) has sought time to respond to a public interest litigation (PIL) in Delhi High Court, which alleges that the Registrar of Companies (ROC) discriminates against lawyers by only allowing chartered accounts, company secretaries or cost accountants to certify electronic submissions to the corporate registrar.

The petitioner Legum and Law Awareness Society has challenged the restriction imposed on advocates who are practicing in the field of corporate law, which was heard yesterday.

According to the petition, till 2006 Registrar of Companies (ROC) was accepting the incorporation documents and other information from companies in physical or manual forms.

In that environment lawyers were serving corporate clients on their own, similar to professionals such as chartered accountants and company secretaries. But since the introduction of e-governance in the ROC, all physical forms have been replaced with electronically submitted e-forms, requiring certification by at least one chartered accountant, cost accountant or company secretary.

Since 2006 therefore, advocates were not permitted to certify e-forms and had to retain other professionals to get every form certified before submitting it to the ROC, argued the petition, adding that the Ministry has alienated the advocates from the definition of practicing professionals.

The petioner’s advocate Sandeep Sharma contended in court: “The word corporate lawyer is just an illusion, we can’t even file a small document with the Registrar of Companies. When I had written to them about this anomaly, the ROC responded by saying that the Ministry’s guidelines were responsible for this and I should get in touch with the Ministry of Corporate Affairs.”

In approaching the Delhi High Court, the Petitioner now argues that the use of technology should be for the upliftment and betterment of all the professions and not just for selected ones.

The bench of acting Chief Justice Madan B Lokur and Justice Mukta Gupta had earlier sought responses from the MCA in this regard.

The petition noted that section 33 of The Companies Act 1956 was the main provision governing the incorporation of companies, which clearly empowered an advocate to make a declaration that all the requirements of the Act and the rules thereunder were complied with in respect of the registration of a company and matters precedent and incidental thereto.

This section further provides that the Registrar may accept such a declaration as sufficient evidence of such compliance. It is pertinent to mention that this section does not empower the registrar to call for any certificate from any professional to certify the declaration made by an Advocate.

Luthra and Jaggi partner Navin Raheja commented: “It’s a clear case of discrimination against the Advocates. The Bar Council of India must intervene in the matter to protect the interests of millions of lawyers in the country.”

Further commenting, Society of Indian Law Firms (SILF) president Lalit Bhasin said: “If the lawyers are allowed to certify the documents, it will instill a confidence in the minds of clients. The Chartered Accountants and Company Secretaries are entering in the territory of law practice, it should be discouraged.”

When asked about if he would represent the lawyers’ interest in the matter Bhasin said that SILF had not yet been approached, but if the petitioner needed any help the body would be ready to assist in court.

The PIL prayed to the court to direct the Ministry of Corporate Affairs to include advocates in the list of practicing professionals, enabling them to issue various certificates integrated into e-forms, notified under the Companies Act 1956 and Limited Liability Partnership Act 2008

Comments

Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 18:55
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Ask Lalit Bhasin anything on protecting (local) lawyers, he'll talk of encroachment into 'law practice'. Filing forms is for the greatest part a job role that fits a company 'secretary' or a chartered accountant much more than it fits a lawyer.
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 18:58
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ultimately, this and other controversies (bar exam, foreign law firms) all boils down to this: the nature of the legal profession has changed drastically over the past 60 years, yet the govt has done nothing. moily is fast asleep...as the kerala electiions come closer, things will get worse. i hope he becomes CM of kerala and sonia sends him there. it will be great if salman khurshid or abhishek singhvi replaces him.
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 19:39
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I don't see a policy change with the dispensation simply because x replaces y. There are pervasive local interests from domestic firms keeping the govt from making its mind. It's something else that the govt does not have a mind of its own when it comes to this. Oligopolistic markets behave that way :sad:
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 20:21
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You say sir that "Filing forms is for the greatest part a job role that fits a company 'secretary' or a chartered accountant much more than it fits a lawyer. "

Since when did compliance with the Companies Act and filing of forms prescribed thereunder go out of lawyers' domain? Does the Act say so, or is it your own considered view? Please do reply. Also, please don't say general things like CAs do a better job etc. if the law does not say so.

Junior lawyer.
crazydiamond 28 May 2010, 21:08
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@1:

What makes you put the word secretary in quotes?

Posting as anonymous should give you full liberty to express your thoughts.
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 21:22
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@ 4

Please let me know if law school taught you which form needs to be filed for a fresh issue of shares (unless you attended one of NLS' exotic M&A seminars, if any)? Did the Bar Council require that you successfully file a form on the RoC site before you enrolled? It did not, right? Lawyers were never meant to do secretarial work (and now I know authenticating compliance with the Act is NOT secretarial in the true sense of the term). It's only with the inevitable dimension that transactional law brings with it that lawyers got themselves associated with form filings.

Big law firms at least outsource incorporation related work to retainer CS firms and do not bother themselves with the authentication. Now, I am not aware if you set up a practice only to verify forms.

And please read my comment once more. I never said CAs do a "better" job: I was only on whose province form filing better was. No doubt the law empowers a lawyer (and if I am not wrong, only a HC lawyer), to verify compliance with the Act. That is an entitlement that only a minuscule portion of the bar taps, which takes me back to my point that this is a province better left to CSs and CAs.
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 21:40
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@ 5

The word 'secretary' is very descriptive of the predominant role that CSs play: be it as persons who finalise board minutes, issue general meeting notices or do form filings on a regular basis, their work (for a decent part) is secretarial in nature. The reason why I put the word in quotes was to emphasise on this. No offence meant - I did not intend to negate and am one of those who appreciate the thoroughness to procedure that CSs bring to their job.
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 22:58
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@2: Moily as Kerala CM??? For God's sake, please understand the entire South is not Madras as it used to be. Kerala became a state on November 1, 1956. Kerala has Keralites to become Chief Ministers of the state. Just because Moily is from the South, it doesnt mean he is from Kerala. If Sonia has to send someone from the Center to become Kerala CM, it will be Antony.
Anonymous guest 28 May 2010, 23:34
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Thanks for the answer sir! I am completely on the same page with you when you say form filing is a better province of CA / CS. And I can now see what your thoughts were when you posted the comment, though that was not clear earlier. Having said that, allow me to add that, the issue is “WHETHER THERE IS ANY REASON FOR ROC TO BE BIASED AGAINST LAWYERS”, who today, as you rightly say, do a lot of filing with ROC as an inevitable dimension that transactional law brings with it (for example, Form 8 vetting / filing with ROC to record creation of charge in my area of practice). If the law does not distinguish between CS and Advocates, and allows both of them to do certain things, it is not in the ROCs domain to do so in contravention of the Act, regardless of who is better suited practically (obviously, a CS is better suited but ROC can’t contravene the Legislature’s dictum to allow both professionals). That is why the PIL has been filed, and rightly so. I hope you agree on this, although it is not easy to explain this legalese to non-lawyers (I understand you may have a law degree or may otherwise understand this and this comment is for general readers w/o a legal background). On how suited lawyers are in terms of practical knowledge, it would be fallacious to compare a well-versed practically oriented CA / CS with a law graduate; so one should compare a CA / CS with a lawyer with 2-3 years’ experience when discussing the issue on hand or comparing practical experience with form filing.

Lawschool did not teach most things I do today, but I have picked up practice points that were not taught by faculty. While we do give work to CS, it is the senior lawyers who take a call on issues, as forms are based on requirements of the law. The filing is left to CS. Also, an exotic seminar on M&A offered by a partner of a London based law firm in my college over 4 days, were in a different league in terms of practical content than what faculty professed (It may interest you to note that I am not from NLS B’lore and NLS is not the only lawschool offering exotic options today !!)

#4
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 00:34
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the lawyers are not any how competent to certify the eForms of MCA. the syllabus does not include any secretarial or company law subject in deep. Company Secretaries are the only competent professionals to certify these forms and not even a Chartered Accountant. Lawyers work is to practice in court of law, CAs work is to d o tax audits, similarly only CSs are only allowed to certify all the forms under MCA regime, may be under Companies Act, 1956, LLP Act,2008 or the proposed Companies Bill,09
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 00:39
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#2:

typo: i meant karnataka, not kerala. i read somewhere that he wants to be karnataka cm if cong wins there. anyway, he should ideally be banished to mars. his only achievements have been helping tytler,sajjan kumar and quattrochi avoid punishment and using the CBI as a political tool.. of course, SILF would probably rate him as the best minister of all time.
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 01:07
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How on earth is this photo related to the story? Because it is online filing?

[Agreed, somewhat tenous... Was scrambling to look for an interesting photo of a form but thought this was more fun. -Ed]
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 01:35
+2 -0
You said – “the syllabus does not include any secretarial or company law subject in deep”. God knows what syllabus you are talking about. You can’t even communicate properly and you sound like an incoherent fool. Assuming you are referring to the LLB syllabus, I doubt you have checked the syllabus before commenting. Company law is mandatory, and usually taught over two papers. Leave the depth measurement to people who know the subject.

“Lawyers work is to practice in court of law” – HA HA. There you go again, doling out bullshit. What do you think transactional lawyers in law corporate firms / the Mumbai solicitors do? For your info, not all lawyers go to court.
“CSs are only allowed to certify all the forms under MCA regime” – WHERE DO YOU GET THIS FROM? Is it a general statement and a figment of your imagination, or does some law say so?

Going by your random comments, superior knowledge and gaseous intellect, I don't even think you will understand what I am saying. This post is more for viewers entertainment than for you.
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 01:47
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There is a propensity for many on LI to get personal, antagonistic and sometimes downright disrespectful of other commentators.
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 04:54
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"There is a propensity for many on LI to get personal, antagonistic and sometimes downright disrespectful of other commentators."

lol..prize for best comment.
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 21:18
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A sect called as 'Document writers' are monopolised by Registrar office officials (they run it in proxy names as well as through their kins). They are the root cause for bribery in the registration department.

Certain document writers earn not less than Rs. 25,000/- per day. The black money they generate are being utilised in the real-estate business which further generates huge black money.

A system of e-filing like companies registration must be implemented all over India, so that uniform system is maintained as well as fraud elements like duplicate stamp paper, bribery can be reduced. But, who will bell the cat? Our Income-Tax department has a website, but strangely, there is no email id of officials mentioned in the site. Is it that they are illiterate about emails?
Anonymous guest 29 May 2010, 21:47
+2 -0
This is a greate issue for the corporates house. corporates have to recruit unwanted CA/CS/ICWA only for the purpose of filling documents in ROC prepared by a corporate lawyer and as a result these persons only increase cost on companies. I think now we can incorporate a company without help of the CA/Cs/ICWA. God bless the issue.
Anonymous guest 30 May 2010, 14:30
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bar council of india should take the matter seriously because thousends of students are joining the law course to practice in the fielf of corporate law.
Anonymous guest 31 May 2010, 17:30
+2 -0
Its a tad bit hilarious that all of you are seeking to argue that lawyers aren't fit to do a CS' work. That's absolutely ridiculous. If you say that it might be more efficient, I might tend to agree with you. But making a bland statement such as this, is absolutely nonsense. Anyone can do this, you don't even need to be a lawyer. In a firm I know, a paralegal (no law, no CS, no CA), used to file the forms for all the retainer companies. And never for 4 years since 2006, has that firm had any questions or queries raised by RoC.

And the issue here is only a certification from a CS. I have friends who have CS' certify ten forms a day. the email with the form comes back in 10 odd minutes so I doubt if that form has even been looked at, ever.

So don't go about glorifying yourself. You're not doing rocket science work.

Also, don't forget, whatever a CS does, in house or otherwise, all that work is tested by a lawyer in a due diligence, and boy have I personally gone crazy in identifying and rectifying goof ups by your brethren. Check SEBI guidelines, before filing a DRHP, you need a lawyer's certificate that the books and records are being maintained as per the companies act, not a CS'. Get your facts straight boss, and then lets argue on stuff you don't know.

If you guys genuinely do feel it should be your domain alone, I would really, really, like to see your beloved ICAI or ICSI go out in support of the MCA. try it and lemme know.
Guest 22 May 2014, 07:27
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VERY GOOD
Anonymous guest 31 May 2010, 20:30
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Thanks for seconding me ... 10, 6 and 1 are like "random" to say the least.

# 4/ 9/ 13

PS - Why does "MCA" and "rocket science" sound familiar? ;-)
Anonymous guest 31 May 2010, 23:38
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#13, # 19,

Most lawyers even dnt knw wats the difference between private and public company. When annual return needs to be submitted. When Form-23 needs to be submitted. SO do you expect them to certified forms.
Anonymous guest 1 Jun 2010, 00:19
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If you refer to trial court lawyers, they may not know commercial stuff. But all corporate lawyers know the basics. N-law school students would not even bother to qualify your statement with an answer (I am being nice :D). And hey, don't tell me that no CS falls short of basic legal knowledge they are supposed to know.

Also, you are missing the issue. Assuming some lawyers know the stuff (while the reality is that most corporate lawyers do, if not all), should the ROC be entitled to discriminate, when the law does not permit? That is what the PIL is about. I think you may not understand this legalese .... if you don't, refer #9.
Anonymous guest 2 Jun 2010, 04:17
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http://www.knowledgecommission.gov.in/downloads/documents/NKC_Education.pdf
Anonymous guest 2 Jun 2010, 16:56
+1 -0
This is not a reasonable discrimination therefore it is hit by Article 14 of Indian Constitution. Therefore the restriction which is imposed on lawyers should be removed. Has the MCA forgot the role of corporate lawyers under the Companies Act. I am very sure that Delhi High Court is going to respond to this PIL very positively. Will give a landmark judgment in favor of lawyers sorry i should say "corporate lawyers".
Anonymous guest 3 Jun 2010, 23:07
+1 -0
Yes MCA is making discrimination against the Advocates in this angle and it is not permissble in law. Advocates are the only experts in corporate law rather than company secretaries and chartered accountants. I hope justice will be done in the said PIL filed in Delhi High Court and thereby uphold the prestige of Advocates
Anonymous guest 3 Jun 2010, 23:41
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Page 48 is wrong reference. It is page 49 of the PDF file, marked in the document as p. 45. And its a Knowledge Commission report on various sectors ... law, management, health-care. Hardly relevant to the debate. As already pointed out, lawyers learn practice points and procedural stuff (like ROC filing) on the job. And legal education's quality varies from place to place. National law schools have excellent training, corporate law included.

ANYWAYS .... the issue here is "Can ROC discriminate, as the PIL says it does, against qualified lawyers? Esp. when the Parliament does not want that to happen". Do not comment when you don't understand and waste others' time with irrelevant stuff. And not even a correct page reference ... have consideration for readers man (or woman).
Anonymous guest 4 Jun 2010, 18:16
+1 -0
Comment on #21 my dear friend The subject Company law is mother of all Companies Act. The term Company law itself includes law even if you will ask a layman who knows the law better he would certainly say lawyers not company secretaries. And all the forms have their source under the companies Act. Are you trying to say by your statement that well known lawyers who really plead on the matters such the validity of the provisions of the companies act do not know the difference between public and private company.
My dear fried i think you need to change your outlook in this era of post LPG Because lawyers are not only lawyers they are lawyers on specified fields such as "corporate lawyers".
So the right to certify forms should rest not only with CS And CA but also with corporate lawyers.
"No one knows the law better than lawyers"
The Company law is not an exception to this rule.
Anonymous guest 4 Jun 2010, 20:28
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Well said. Problem is, the CS chaps think they know it all (and they think "lawyers" mean the lower court litigation lawyers only). Most of them haven't had a scope to interact with corporate lawyers in the big law firms, else these comments would not have been posted. And I doubt they understand that "lawyers know the law best" because they think that by knowing some specific sections and forms that are available as "checklists" on their CS website / practice manuals, they are having some special knowledge of law. Ask them a conceptual legal question on Companies Act that is not in the checklist and they'll plead ignorance. Most of them can only fill forms, and the lesser said of their "legal" knowledge the better.
Anonymous guest 17 Jun 2010, 16:39
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it is a provocation to indulge illegal practice such as bribery,gifts,air/train tickets in highest class etc.unneccessarily this point has been raised.