AIL Mohali final year student Phalguni Nilesh Lal had filed a writ petition in the Delhi high court (HC) on Wednesday, challenging the validity of the Supreme Court’s process of selecting judicial clerks. Under the current process she was ineligible to apply because her law school was not invited to submit applications for the post.
On 3 December 2012, the Supreme Court’s registrar had written to select law schools stating: “You are aware that Final year/semester/trimester LLB/LLM students from National Law Schools/Universities on the approved panel and in the stand-by category in the country are considered for short-term assignment as Law-Clerk-cum-Research-Assistant in the registry of the Supreme Court of India.”
AIL Mohali was not among the colleges that received the registrar’s letter, leading Lal to attempt applying independently. The registrar declined Lal’s request for an application form, stating that AIL Mohali – a Bar Council of India (BCI) recognised Indian law school – was not on the SC’s “approved panel” for judicial clerkships, according to the case.
The notification inviting applications due on 31 January 2013 was not available in the public domain. The registry also declined Lal’s request to view a copy of the notification, she has claimed. No response was elicited by Lal’s 11 January letter to the chief justice of India, and 14 January right to information query to the registry seeking a list of the empanelled and “stand-by category” law colleges and the criteria adopted for empanelment.
She therefore challenged the SC’s institutional preference in the selection of its judicial clerks as violating the constitutional right to equality under Article 14. Advocates Rajeev Sharma, Uddyam Mukherjee and Sahil Bhalaik today appeared for Lal before justice Rajiv Shakdher.
Additional solicitor general AS Chandhiok argued on behalf of the Supreme Court that the selection process was fair because the option to apply for empanelment was available with all BCI recognised law schools.
Justice Shakdher has asked the Supreme Court registrar to file his reply by 19 March.
threads most popular
thread most upvoted
comment newest
first oldest
first
lets not debate that because Naman u wont have the guts to knock the Court's door ud just go to your NLU friends and start something anti any XYZ law school.
And the thing about only letting National law schools students to apply for the annual law-clerk openings in the court... u tell me how many judges are from national law schools or how many top lawyers are from NLUs and if there some one applying from Chaudhary Charan Singh University let him apply man if u r deserving you will get the place all you have gotta do is put your best effort
and yeah BTW the current CJI Altamas Kabir is from University of Calcutta, Kolkata and is the Chancellor of NLU Bangalore but then again there were no NLSs in India whn de did he studies in law, yet we have brilliant lawyers and judges from all parts of India ... Lekin tum NLU walo ki hawa he kharab hai... hamara chota sa college teer pe teer kya mar raha hai tumhari badi jal rahi hai... jao yarr apni library me baitho aur moot wagera jeeto debate wagera karo hame lawyer banna hai aur asli zindagi me bhala karna hai...
With regard to the point you raised about how many judges are from NLU's.
The oldest NLU's first batch graduated in 1992(??). There may be many ways in which to counter Naman's point but the ridiculously stupid point you raised and elaborated with the help of the CJI example will perhaps make the average reader get a clearer idea of what Naman meant to say.
my point may seem stupid to you... but all i am trying to tell you that its not just NLUs that manufactures good lawyers. U tell me how many advocates practicing in Allahabad HC are from NLU and u do mention cases in your exams don't you half are from Allahabad HC
So practising in Allahabad HC is your criteria of being a good lawyer?
Oh well,
Headline: Something rotten in Allahabad HC.
articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-11-26/india/28248419_1_allahabad-high-court-judges-huge-bank-balances
This is what is fundamentally wrong with our country. People are too quick to draw 'a reasonable and intelligible differentia' based on thier personal opinions and a stream of thought that is a fallacy of logic. Firms like Clifford Chance, A&O, Linklaters, Skadden, Cravath are, as is obvious, high flying firms with interests, considerations and criteria different from our Court and judicial system. How many judges do you know that come from National law colleges? Even more so relevant, how many aspire to be?
But that is, I suppose, a matter of national fallacies.
But when a law student goes and makes such basic fallacies of logic and draws rubbish 'intelligible differentia', National Law Colleges just seem more and more like the honing grounds for inflated egoes and disconnected realisities.
Tough.
Quoting Naman:
The Barman, at least get your facts right. The SC does permit grads from both CLC Delhi, GLC Mumbai to be law clerks. Your argument falls on facts alone.
A&O will never refuse to entertain an application just because you are from A, B or C school. But they only say that you have not been selected. So, there is a difference between meeting the eligibility criteria and selection criteria, and they are mutually exclusive.
To suggest that judicial clerks are the top minds from top law schools is too much of an overstatement. Except for few, judicial clerks mostly comprise of those who failed to get a job from the recruitment process, and serve the judges as a last but 'interesting' option. Sour, but true. This is one of the reasons, why we must never compare US JC (always out of will) with an Indian JC (mostly out of circumstance).
Lastly, why do you think that the SC should not take out time to interview students? Time or the lack of it cannot decide who should pursue their 'interests' and who should not. Evolve a system if you don't have one! Engage a private service! But don't just sit there and shun responsibilities just because there will be administrative burden, and that too by citing reasons that reflect constitutional perverseness of the highest order!
The question at hand is how meritorious a "student" is and not the Institute.
Those guys would not have fit in I reckon.....but its totally irrelevant to this subject. Don't see any reasons (valid or lame) being pointed out by you.
The thing which the SC letter talks about is approved panel. That is what most people over here seem to have an objection to. As the SC is the repository for all equality (rightly so), it should dispense with the practice of 'approved panels' especially for Judicial Clerkships. Even accepting the same as a valid procedure, is an impetus to bias, which the SC should refrain from. An administrative overload cannot be used as the excuse to bring in bias in the country's foremost judicial institution and the safeguard of the Constitution. I agree with the petition of Ms. Lal. The SC should establish appropriate criterion like a questionnaire/essay/telephonic interview, if they want to screen the applicants. As it is most students think that they are not eligible for such clerkships and even more of them are not even aware that such opportunities exist. Therefore, the work of the SC registry is substantially reduced due to these factors. They should not shirk from undertaking this little extra effort to provide enthusiastic students with an opportunity to offer themselves as candidates for the SC Judicial Clerkships. All it probably would require is the SC registry to work for 1 extra hour every day over the course of the approx 180 days that they are open and working.
Misconstrued facts make for ill-informed opinions!
Firstly, The Supreme Court of US invites applications for its Clerkship position from ALL its Law Colleges , thereby creating a "level playing field" for all Law graduates to compete for the said position on the sole criteria of MERIT. The Law Clerkship in India though "inspired" by the US Law Clerk position, surprisingly does not allow applications from ALL Law Colleges. On the Contrary, this position is "reserved" for a few Colleges/Institutes.
Moreover, Mr. Joshi, where is the "reasonable differentia or classification" in creating a class of Law Institutes/ Colleges for the purpose of selection of candidates for a said post? Afterall, it is a meritorious student and not a so called meritorious Institute/ College which is to occupy the said post?! :|
Or, do you believe that ALL National law School students are Meritorious and NO student from a Non-National Law School is Meritorious, and hence such a College wise classification?
Finally, Mr. Joshi, the purpose of including Articles 32 and 226 in the Constitution of India, was to enable citizens to "knock on the Courts' Door" as a matter of "RIGHT" whenever, there is a gross violation of an Individuals Fundamental Right. And I see no "waste of any ones time" in fighting for a right or against the violation of one, and neither does the Hon'ble Court as we can see by the positive response of the Delhi High Court in this case.
In conclusion, the violation of Ms. Lals' right to apply for the said post is not the only question at hand, there is a larger question to be answered: why should there be any discrimination of any sort between Law Institutions, making a "reservation" for only a few to apply for certain posts? Is MERIT of a student of no significance anymore? Or does only the Institute to which a student belong determine his/her Merit?
A food for thought for ALL of us!
@Nishant Kataria ,well researched point of argument!
Its a known fact, and I speak from experience, that even in the best of national-level moots the anonymity of teams is hardly maintained. The judges seem to know which team is from an NLU and, at least in the later rounds of the competition, tend to favour the NLU teams over the non-NLU teams.
You are aware of the MPL right. It does testify contrary to what you believe. You should also be aware that NLS has been the best debating school in the country for many years now.
Quoting The Barman:
Really??? In what?
Quoting The Barman:
Sour grapes and aangan terra manifesting much no?
While the preparation was being made for the finals, we could constantly hear the moot organizers and volunteers referring to the teams NOT by their codes BUT by the names of their universities. This is a horrendous breach of moot ethics.
Having been there, quite honestly, that was NOT the true situation. The speaker from CLC just SPOKE dramatically, and had no substance. But then, maybe we're moving away from the subject. However, next time, just MAYBE consider the fact that many NLUs can actually be better at mooting? I am not saying being from a NLU makes you a better mooter, but can we leave the pedigree of a particular college OUT when we see their quality of doing well anywhere?
Quoting Wierd:
On a separate note, I did clear the bar exam on the first attempt. Thanks once again.
If colleges such as ILS are also included on the panel of approved colleges, the question which needs to be answered is why include a few Colleges/Institutes on the Panel and exclude ALL others?
Why create a Approved Panel in the first place? Shouldn't all Law graduates be allowed to apply for a post in the SUPREME COURT OF INDIA???
Isn't this the principle of "EQUALITY" and "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY"?
Secondly, in order to make Mr. Naman fully understand the Apex court's arbitrariness in the selection procedure I would like to draw an analogy - What if UPSC, for the sake of administrative convenience decided to accept applications for Civil Services Examinations only from top colleges in respective fields? Then no son of a rickshaw-puller, student of Ranchi University would have aced the exam thereby eliminating competition from colleges such as Xaviers, Hindu, Stephens, etc. Since when did 'inconvenience' start coming in the way of justice and equal opportunity?
At the end, I urge everyone to not to derail themselves from the actual cause. It is not a college/university war. It is a matter in which not only the petitioner, but many other students/institutions are aggrieved. I applaud the efforts of the petitioner because of whom we have been able to take notice of such a situation . Also, I congratulate her for having put her education (NLU/Non NLU - Who cares?) to such fruitful and efficacious use.
I express my full support to her and wish her all the best for her endeavors.
ok....so this shows how ill-informed u are.....so u think all NLU's are better than AIL...thats not true.......NUALS, RGNUL, HNLU, NUSRL, NLUJA, CNLU, NLU-O...............all these universities dont stand a toes height in front of AIL......Factually we are 8th in India......NLSIU is 4th......(India-Today)
The excellence at AIL can never be matched with ease.....and considering a situation where an AILian tops his class, wins Jessups...writes a 100 research papers......an NLUite.....smokes away...wiles away time...gets stoned..... does nothing with his life........
Tell me who stands a better chance....
and dont try to tell me this is a hypothetical situation.....
who knows what will happen tomorrow.....
AIL might top the rankings ?!?!
I'm not jumping to conclusions, but a law student who can't cogently express his/her views in 'decent' and error free language cannot claim to be of any quality.
Remember, AIL is not better than RGNUL or for any of those other universities that you mentioned. If you really believe so, please quote something else other than a farcical survey by a questionable magazine.
I don't need to remind you how we've destroyed you at mooting, organising events, debating and being awesome in general.
Mind the gap.
and u spelling nazi.....gud attempt there to deviate everyone's attention from the issue.....
@Its Always Sunny in Patiala: sour grapes??
Having said that, I don't think it crossed your mind that there is a way of making your point without being downright offensive. I'm sorry, but "spoilt-army-brat-kid scum ilk" does not sit well with me. The offender in this case offended you by quoting rankings and didn't hit below the belt. I can also call the folks over at RGNUL crude, crass, illiterate, Punjabi dumbfucks who's daddies are mostly small-time judges and the like. But I won't, see?
Whether you like it or not, RGNUL's reputation in the law firm circle (and all other circles, actually) has about as much credibility as AIL's.
Why yes, we do get better rankings than you (15 and 23, was it?). Deal with it. Farcical survey by a questionable magazine? Well...at least it's something. What's the unit of awesome again?
Also, since you're quite the believer of below the belt comments, your handle (It's Always Sunny in Patiala!) and your parting 'Mind the gap' shows how you're a pretentious douchebag who probably thinks he/she has a lovely, wry (with a sprinkling of ironic) sense of humour but is actually an uninspired, "big-fish-in-small-pond" (mostly due to the ability to write proper English - surprise, surprise), rotten brained foetus who has a LOT to learn about pretty much everything.
Cheerio,
Niharika
Well...I dont know who's destroyed who in organizing events, mooting and debating....but as far as "clerkship" is concerned....well ure in the the same boat as AIL....(not an empanelled Institute by the SC)!
So, the fight again is not National Law School v. Non - National Law School for the position !
It is a fight between some "selected" Institutes v. ALL others.....(including ures!)
I hope ure not 2 thick headed to understand this.....!
So, basically, in other words, the petitioner is fighting for YOU 2!
RGNUL is an empanelled institute and has always been invited for Clerkship posts from the very beginning.
So, it's a fight between 'Selected deserving Institutes and 'Rejected Non-deserving institutes'.
P.S. Do not speak what you are not sure of. Signs of a bad lawyer.
It's a fact and there is a universal opinion on this.
That shows what kind of students your college is producing.
Therefore, i request all AILians to please stop being in such strong denial, not good for your own future. Accept the truth, move on with it, work harder and prove yourself. You will get your share. Stop crying out like babies.
Well and still in the competitions that you organise whom do you invite to judge...even the Intra selection...???
ah AILians...
I think that is sufficient enough.
[quote name="We have teachers who studied at AIL and now teaching at our college and i am very sorry to say they suck big time.
As far as the 2012 clerkship is concern ....who topped the list of getting prestigious clerkship in SC....
Whats the Answer....I know you have no idea...bcz u never have an idea...get an idea
Answer
Currently 12 Law Clerks from RGNUL are working in SC.....The highest number from any NLUs in a same academic year ...out of which eight were selected in year 2012 and four people contract got extended by Judges in SC from previous batch.....So now facts are presented people who are part of the discussions go and have good sleep and dream about SC Clerkship....there is no place for non deserving candidates..it does not matter from which college they belong...u have to perform well in your interview thats the key to get clerkship
Sweet Dream
Best wishes,
Kian
RGNLU students i have nothing against you as such,but you all are studying in a law school n i m sure all of u want to seriously pursue it so start acting a lil matured n stop finding a reason to fight out of nothing.....when an initiative is being taken for something positive please support it...please broaden ur horizons....bcoz of such provisions many talented students from other collleges were being left....if you have the guts n learn to face compttn....stop basking on the status that u have been given by the govt.
The fact that AIL is 80% quota speaks for its quality. Enough said.
Yes, AIL has a quota, but if you really think shifting 10-12 schools in your life, changing schools mid-10th and mid-12th, studying in KVs and Army Schools with makeshift benches in far flung places like Rajauri and Udhampur only because you chose to live with your family and mostly because your dad couldn't afford private boarding schools does not entitle you to a quota, then there's something wrong with you. So, yeah. You may have a better education, but you sure as hell haven't worked harder because in spite of all this, we have managed to percolate into some good law firms, some of us have managed to make a name for ourselves and our college. Things aren't handed to us on a silver platter. We don't have Big Law coming for campus recruitment, but we work our ass off as interns and get PPOs. At least we try. Look at Phaguni.
And most importantly, fuck dude, you're from Gullu. In the larger scheme of things, you're as inconsequential as we are. In spite of your flourishing recruitment and moots and debates and meh.
The good things about it are alumni(they're everywhere), and the reasonably liberal rules (until the recent drama happened).
Anyway, the NLU-only law clerk rule is ridiculous. Totally support the petition.
luck from punjab.
The basis of all the hate can be compiled in one statement - "RGNUL Patiala is barely better than AIL Mohali and thus should not get preference over AIL just because of it's NLU status."
On paper, this is an easy debate to win. What makes a college good? Placements? Check. Amarchand & Mangaldas, JSA, Trilegal, AZB & Partners... where do I stop? Mooting credentials? The MPL table is up for everyone to see. Despite not being very old, we have managed to hold our own at 13th position whereas AIL is hardly existent. Infrastructure? Don't even make me go there. So, I think, everyone can see which college is better. I call this pointless debate off. We are, and will be, superior to AIL in every way possible.
Additional note to Niharika:
Wow. Don't you sum up your plight very well? You feel bad that you couldn't clear CLAT and landed in the wrong side of Punjab. Tough luck.
(a) When I joined AIL (before CLAT existed) I had never even heard of RGNUL. It. But then, I still barely ever hear of it.
(b) Trilegal, AMSS, JSA, AZB, Luthra...check (for AIL, that is). In fact, I happen to know that there are no RGNUL folks at at least one of the law firms you have mentioned in your comment. (Not yet, anyway - maybe in July).
(c) Moots - Well, I presume you're still a student, so you probably don't understand how little moots matter in the larger scheme of things, so any arguments "advanced" here would be pointless. Although, I'll have you know, we've had our name up in the world's top ten memos at Henry Dunant and we've reached semis at Stetsons. Why I know this or care is because I was closely associated with mooting when we achieved these things (until I realised that it's smarter to spend your free time interning). Beyond that, I don't care and I don't think anyone does.
(d) Infrastructure - Dude. We're funded by the Army. Obviously we have a crap infrastructure. If we had that much money we'd be as well educated as you guys from fancy-schmancy Patiala, no?
I reiterate, you are in NO way superior to AIL. I'd say we're closely matched as both schools hover between anonymity and potential. Also, let me tell you, I have some good friends from your college who I have helped and who have helped me. But I have never, ever, EVER met anyone from your college (and I have met a lot of people) who has made me think - Yeah, maybe their students are better than ours. I know you guys have shit campus placements too, and I've seen your students work their asses off to get jobs. So why this misplaced sense of superiority, huh?
Anyway, this is boring me now. So feel free to write anything back. I'm outta here. Good luck!
Don't you guys have gyms equipped with medicine balls and everything else.. and an awesomesauce mess with decent food and free-flowing white butter... and more than frequent campus parties?? Don't know about your library but what more do you want to suck out of the Indian army?
I'm sure you hadn't heard of RGNUL when you joined AIL, but that was only because it started in 2006. But the important thing is that RGNUL and its students have done more in the seven years since, than AIL has done till date. Period. Where do I begin? Let's continue systematically -
(a) Placements - Our placements are just getting better with every passing day. Sadly, that cannot be said of your alma mater. The only reason you haven't heard of RGNUL people in these firms is probably because you're not as important as you think you are. What are you? Possibly a first or second year associate at a law firm? Yeah! Man, your opinion matters sooo much! And of course, you are so well informed of everything that happens in these firms! RGNUL has alumni in Luthra, AMSS, Vaish already. There are people from the graduating batch of 2013 who have already been placed with AMSS, JSA and Trilegal not to mention the bevy of mid size firms. Now let's understand that this is just three batches of RGNUL as compared to the nine batches that AIL has produced. All those nine batches combined have not had a greater impact than the first two batches of RGNUL.. AIL has the advantage of an established alumni network which gets you the [...] mid-low tier jobs that most of your population thrives on. You might be the one exception that made it through. Whereas most of RGNUL is getting increasingly better jobs whereas AIL is just stagnating. Res ipsa loquitur, madam. You are the one who needs to check your facts.
(b) Moots - AIL has once come semi-finalist in Stetson in their 14 years of existence. That's only three people in all the students you have ever produced. As far as Henry Dunant is concerned, RGNUL has been semi-finalist, won the best memorial and the best researcher in Henry Dunant earlier. RGNUL has consistently performed better than AIL at moots ever since 2007-08. For reference, please check all the MPL tables ever since MPL 1. You can't really claim that you are better at mooting in general just because three of the smartest people you have ever produced did what smart people normally do. Just like you can't say that England is the best football team in the world because they won the world cup once in 1966.
(c) Infrastructure - AIL is located in Mohali, has army funding, an awesome mess and the students have a much more comfortable lifestyle as compared to RGNUL. Here, the students of the first four batches had to live in terrible hostels till 2011, still have atrocious food, have to travel 26 kms everyday just to reach their classrooms and libraries while all vehicles are banned on campus and despite all this, they still outperform the present students of AIL. And, madam, it is wrong to say that AIL has "a" crap infrastructure both grammatically and factually. Your facts, I have attempted to correct, but your grammar, I can most certainly correct.
I reiterate, we are kicking AIL's ass. In fact, we are kicking it so bad that AIL is not valid competition. [...] The only reason this debate is being brought up is because of some insecure [...] who think they are better than RGNUL. Plus, I take serious offence to you calling GNLU as "gullu". GNLU is one of the best performing NLUs in the country. Their progress and development is intimidating, not just in placements alone but equally in academics, mooting, conferences, etc. They've managed to rise in a time of lack of jobs, recission, presence of a large number of well established NLUs, etc. I think there is a lot we can learn from GNLU. The sad fact is that AIL is inconsequential and doesn't matter enough. What I cannot comprehend, beyond all of this, is why would an AIL alumnus spend so much time and effort replying to inconsequential comments on a website instead of doing something meaningful with life. I mean, so far, I'm just a jobless young student, but what's your excuse? Like I said before, res ipsa loquitur, madam.
[Edited to reduce the troll-quotient of conversation slightly]
(a) Before you take serious offence to me calling anything anything, please try and establish locus.
(b) Well done for RGNUL, but I assure you, we aren't doing too badly either.
(c) I thought we were discussing which college is better, not which college has grown faster.
(d) This seems petty and childish now, so I'll leave you to it.
As for me wasting my time - haven't you heard? I am wonly a lowly associate from shit law school. I have all the time in the world to do this (between coffee and smoke breaks).
I'm not sure if you're really 'languishing' in a mid-tier law firm, but in case you are, seems like a bloody waste of talent.
to making it a National Law School v. Non National Law school debate!
and from that to making it an AIL v. RGNUL debate!
I wonder if that was even the "cause of action" behind the petitioners writ!
we all need to grow up!
Listen to this song: this is perhaps the only meaningful thing that Punjaabian di shaaan people have done in life. Oh, wait, even this guy isnt from AIL.
And I dont care if you went to some f***all school in timbaktoo. Your dad is in the forces, big shit!! Stop trying to make excuses for your failures.
But what seems to be different here is the congruity I am going to draw between you and an aging woman flourishing in a series of increasingly abusive relationships. It is, Mr GNLU, the persistence with which you keep coming back to highlight your insecurities that has me convinced that you have quite lost the crux of this whole discussion.
Indeed, the grandmasters of sophistry and wit would wither if they stood in your shadow. The page starts with "SC's NLU-preference in judicial clerks challenged; Delhi HC heeds" and then you end up reading "And I dont care if you went to some f***all school in timbaktoo. Your dad is in the forces, big shit!! Stop trying to make excuses for your failures." Hmm.
Something tells me that as well as being insecure you are a highly prejudiced, narrowminded and individual who's battling his hormones, and as such, you must fail all your lawyerly ambitions. So give a 'fuck'. And better yourself. Stop trying to hinge onto what you think are your balls but is really just a student ID card. And that Audi A6 you hump in your dreams..? Never happening man. Not JUST because you graduated from whatever "NLU" you are in.
Also, "Stop trying to make excuses for your failures?" Where did that come from man? XD XD XD No ones failed. Or failing. Infact, define failure for me! Just for the sake of a few laughs.
And if a persons dad is in the forces, I imagine that they probably have a larger life outlook than yours. Not to mention all the amazing facilities they avail, places they travel to and the quality of life they lead. And as such, their lardy ass seems much more cultured than your squat. There is nothing wrong with showing a little respect to those who saved your ass from being a tootsie dancer for some Pakistani and/or Chinese landlord. Could have happened more easily than you think.
With that said, wish you all the success and maybe one day a chimp will teach you the meaning of etiquette and the importance of being level headed.
Sincerely laughing my arse off,
ISK
Quote:Opinions akin to the one expressed are like complaints about your haemorroid pains. Better kept in than out.
I dont mean to aggrevate the AIL and blah college debate, but there is one thing that does deem a little clarification:-
No one is mooching anything off of the Army. AIL is not funded by the Army per se. Its funded by the AWES. The AWES is managed by a board set up by the Army, but the funds essentially come from group contributions made by Army personnel from their personal salaries, started some 3 decades ago. So drop the hate. Its nothing out of your daddy's or the government's pocket.
Further, the internet is rife with the levels of immaturity and pettiness achieved here. Don't pride yourself on it. And stop highlighting your insecuritities like an aging woman in multiple increasingly abusive relationships.
A right is a right. You just cannot discriminate between people in things like this on any ground but their individual competency and intellect. Period.
Any other discussion is pointless. We are all lawyers. We are all public servants. And the only difference between people from other colleges and National univs seems to be that nluites seem to realise that much less than the others.
Godspeed.
You are insanely prejudiced and arbitrary with your policies. Stuff it.
Sincerely,
Will Neverstoplaughingmyassoff
threads most popular
thread most upvoted
comment newest
first oldest
first