The firms said in a joint statement: “Unfortunately the lack of progress towards legal sector liberalisation in India has led both firms to conclude their existing arrangement is restricting their ability fully to exploit the growing opportunities in India.”
A&O’s India head Jonathan Brayne said in the statement: “There is an obvious need to adapt our India strategy to give us, and Trilegal, greater flexibility to both service the needs of our clients and cement our leading market position on India-related work.
“We have the highest opinion of Trilegal and we look forward to continuing to work with them when the opportunity presents itself, but also to collaborating with other Indian law firms.”
Trilegal senior partner Anand Prasad said: “We believe our relationship with Allen & Overy has been of great benefit to both firms.
“But both sides agree that, in the absence of liberalisation, each firm stands a better chance of increasing its market share by broadening our options for collaboration in the market.”
In late 2010 both firms had agreed to extend the best friend referral relationship, which they first entered into in January 2008.
Prasad told Legally India in 2009 that around 60 to 65 per cent of Trilegal’s fees were directly to international referrals, which did not change after tying up with A&O.
However, he had explained, the best friendship with the UK magic circle firm did result in other relationships becoming less lucrative.
A&O and Trilegal were the second major India-UK best friendship following Linklaters tie-up with Talwar Thakore & Associates of 2007.
AZB & Partners and Clifford Chance broke off their best friend relationship after only a year in 2011, too citing fewer referrals and a decreased likelihood of liberalisation. A few months later Clyde & Co and ALMT Legal ended their best friendship, though Clydes continued a relationship with ALMT-breakaway Clasis Law.
Comments
Are you the 'very good associate' who left Trilegal coz of nepotism?
(See http://www.legallyindia.com/20090818136/Job-moves/aao-partner-joins-trilegal-to-kick-off-capital-markets-practice)
"Notwithstanding the positive spin, this move actually highlights two key chinks in Trilegal's armour that A&O seems to have become aware of, namely (i) Trilegal's lack of a strong domestic client base and (ii) Trilegal's very limited abilities in certain key practice areas, including capital markets. A&O was possibly expecting a higher number of referrals from Trilegal, but the same have likely failed to materialize on account of factor (i) above. Unlike Tier 1 firms like AMSS, JSA, AZB and Luthra, Trilegal has very few large Indian corporate accounts, and relies mainly on referrals from foreign firms for big ticket transactions (where it usually represents the overseas parties). As a result, A&O has made very limited progress insofar as the India market is concerned, and has had relatively few opportunities (from the Trilegal end) to obtain mandates from Indian clients for thier overseas investments. Factor (ii) is an important limitation, and Trilegal remains a largely corporate and banking focussed firm, rather than a full service shop. It has never had a worthwhile capital markets practice, and also has gaps in other important areas. Hopefully, this move will try to address the same to a small extent. One also wonders about whether the transferee was able to pull in any significant work while based with A&O in Singapore, since JSA was able to retain the bulk of the clients earlier serviced by him. Perhaps the move to Bombay will enable the transferee to market more aggressively and win over some of the clients that he had worked with during his JSA stint."
The thing about opinions, as a wise person once said, is that they are like ass***** - everyone's got one. Even you! I don't believe, however, that the overused constitutional protection of free speech extends to defamation - which, in case you didn't bother learning in law school, would include publishing denigrating 'opinion' on others without any substantiation (by your own admission), unless of course you've got a secret dossier of evidence stashed away within the easy reach of your suitably simian limbs. Having actually worked with the so-called tier 1 firms and Trilegal, I didn't notice any quality differences in the work product I received. All firms produced both good and bad work from time to time. And charged more per hour than an average Indian's monthly wage. There are no angels in an oligopoly. True fact.
This (together with your vicious response to what an otherwise fair opinion) obviously means you either have very little work experience or are simply cannot distinguish based on quality.
Kishen
Anyways, I leave you with this: if you have worked with these firms and did not notice quality differences, then i shall pray for your reading/writing (simian limbs, really) and analysis appreciation skills and for the organization you work for.
Also wondering, do you honestly believe that the established firms always offer the best quality - CLB seems to differ.
Also wondering on the basis of your logic, would the purchasers of Scorpio thought that Safari comes from a bigger and more established company so Safari should be better.
Also wondering, do you believe that being established at a particular time, means it will continue. I find it hard to find msn and yahoo account users nowdays.
[quote name="overseas firm....really"]Either this is sarcasm at its best or naivete at worst. I mean, really...will a foreign firm that will pay, or cause to be paid, fees in forex really opt for a tier 2 firm when it can well afford a tier 1 firm. Quality wise assuming (and thats a very big if) the standards are the same, would not one opt logically for a more established name (even in tier 2 circles) rather than a firm whose claim to fame primarily has been a relationship with a magic circle firm. Just saying...[/quote]
I am sorry but I am not very heavily into presumptions and have no information as to what A&O did and didnt do before forging a tie with Trilegal. Maybe, just maybe, they didnt find anyone else to go with (someone mentioned that below in the comments and I kind of agree) - can be a possibility.
Your CLB, Scorpio, msn, yahoo comments are not even tangentially relevant and please excuse me for not responding.
Also wondering on the basis of your logic, would the purchasers of Scorpio thought that Safari comes from a bigger and more established company so Safari should be better.
[quote name="overseas firm....really"][/quote]
Yes, having a well established reputation and being a bigger company does matter. Think about your everyday choices. All else being equal, pedigree matters a lot.
Lets not forget Platinum and Freshfields either
I invite A&O to give us a chance.
I'd rather prefer a mongrel than a fox.
From a market perspective, most of what has been written above is true. Trilegal is essentially a mediocre firm, at best B grade, maybe even C grade according to some. Most of their work came from AO referrals and they did not have a sufficient india practice to reciprocate.
Not having sufficient standing in india, referrals were getting harder to come by. A client who has the cash to afford AO will not want to compromise his interest by appointing Trilegal. They will want AZB or AMSS. And those that are cool with Trilegal will not be able to afford AO. As a result quality of Trilegal lawyers have gone down substantially as can be judged from the cast-offs who have gone on to AMSS, ICICI, etc. in these past 4-5 years
Also, by staying small, they can keep a better check on consistency in quality.
Today Links knows that by keeping TTA and paying the few thousand pounds that it needs to keep TTA running, it at least has a presence in the country. For the big deals it is happy to work with AMSS and AZB.
That said, the TTA arrangement is a plain slap in the face of BCI and the GOI w.r.t. liberalization of legal services. While I fully support entry of law firms, no foreign firm should be allowed to act with impunity the way LL has created TTA. I hope Kian will write a story on that some day.
I dont want to take names so as to keep things confidential. Had an investment banker at one of the largest banks in the world as my ex. She told me that her boss things very low of TTA and their partners.
I rest my case.
Wasn't this supposed to be non-exclusive friendship anyway.
Imma gonna do the talking now.
obviously, i intensely dislike the inability of people to correctly use ebonics.
No they were not.
Please see http://www.legallyindia.com/201203162643/Tax/breaking-vodafone-lawyer-says-retrospective-amendment-of-tax-rules-unconstitutional-wont-stand-up
I have nothing to do with either Trilegal or A&O, which is as snobbish a Brit shop as ever was.
But it wouldn't kill anyone to show a little appreciation for Trilegal's brave attempt to build something from nothing.
As for quality, we should introduce some reality here: there are plenty of "partners" at the big firms who would be lost without access to the form files built up by cadging from foreign law firms.
If any of those service "partners" had any self respect they'd be at a place that wasn't run like a family cheese shop.
""talented business people"
Are you joking or do you have a bad case of indigestion??
For the uninitiated, the trilegal bunch was a breakaway of a bunch of blokes who used to be perpetual runners up in AMSS. They got some patronage from AO, figured they were all Blackstone's daddies and set up what is at best a grossly mediocre firm. I have met a dozen former trilegal lawyers, all were third-class and all wanted to quit. So much so that during hiring time, having ex-Trilegal on a CV is a certain route to a rejection.
So you met a dozen former Trilegal lawyers all wanting to quit...maybe they were quitting cos they were not doing well...an associate doing well is unlikely to quit. And that just shows that the firm does not tolerate mediocrity.
And for the record, I have never worked at Trilegal. I am just amazed that a firm that has probably the same pros and cons as others in the market, maybe more because it is still young, is being denounced just becos a best friends relationship has ended. BFF or not, A&O would not take up the role of propping up an Indian firm. this is just another alliance that has ended and Trilegal is not going to keel over becos of this.
1. I continue to maintain that Trilegal was founded by a bunch of folks who felt their careers going nowhere at amarchand. If you have proof this is incorrect please state it. Names and backgrounds would be useful.
2. Allen and Overy was de facto running trilegal. Their drafts, systems, knowledge sharing and HR platforms were tightly integrated. This was as recent as 6 months ago. The break up is obviously a sudden development.
3. In terms of quality Trilegal's was quite average. Its USP was never quality but proximity to A&O.
4. I don't know of ANY ex-trilegal lawyers doing well at either AMSS or AZB. I don't know which tier 1 firm you talk about. Both these firms have an aversion to ex-trilegal lawyers which must have a basis.
Without any irony, I love this totally bizarre post. The writer's meds seem to fail toward the end, which is charming. Pray, tell us more stories of the Corporate Law Squirrel to which you allude. Is he nuts too?
The truth is that a young firm like Trilegal gets work not because their big daddy knows a lot of people in certain communities or the government but because they are a professional outfit with a heavy focus on quality work (same for S&R and other similarly sized and placed non family firms). So the atmosphere is intense and many times stressful- the reality is that Amss and Jsa regularly like to hire from Trilegal because they know that a trilegal associate would have decent to very good technicsl skills. The truth is that these firms have struggled to hold on such people as they have too much energy for the over controlled and claustrophobic and sometimes bureaucratic atmosphere. Some have left for other avenues or joined back Trilegal.
This in itself does not make Trilegal good or bad or any other firm for that matter. I would think this is a brave step as now foreign firms would have another option. How they fare wil have to be seen in the future. In the meantime let's not judge...
It commands a certain amount of disgust, unless expressed during a boring Charlie Chaplin movie or unless referred to in the context of a vegetable market.
"without doubt has created an institution known for quality"
Lack or quality is closer to the truth.
"They also seemed to have done well with recent partner elevations"
Dunno if its just me or is partner promos a sign of success?
"The truth is that a young firm like Trilegal gets work ... because they are a professional outfit "
The truth is that a firm like Trilegal gets next to nil work from clients who have worked with other Indian firms.
1)A&O was a clearly the dominant partner in the relationship with Trilegal - and certainly Trilegal wasn’t able to live up to certain expectations that A&O had. Does the break-up therefore mean Trilegal is a low quality firm? I don’t think so. I am quite sure A&O did their diligence before inking that relationship. The break-up naturally has business reasons, and possibly both firms are better off without the referral system. In the last three years, with A&O’s help, Trilegal has upped its standards in terms of quality of work product and pedigree of talent. Their market perception will certainly take a hit after the break-up, but if Trilegal could do well before the relationship, perhaps they will do just as well without it.
2)I think there's certain amount of hubris in the above posts. Trilegal is just like any other firm in the market, with some high-quality associates and partners (and some not so). I don't think I can comfortably say that a draft or the advice received from AMSS, AZB, Luthra, Khaitan or Trilegal differs substantively from the others? You should know it is people who make the difference. As a client, I choose to send work to people who I think are smart, grounded and fun to work with, not those who think they are better than others. Each firm has its own share of such people - the question remains who will be able to attract more of such type.
3)What differentiated Trilegal (and hopefully stills does) is the value system of its founding partners, who have certainly built an institution to be proud of. There's still a long road ahead, and hopefully, they will continue to stand out as meritocratic firm that has allowed anyone with talent to be an equal partner in a firm's business. That's the only way Trilegal will attract top talent.
(1) A&O is not stupid to get into a relationship with a firm that is shady. Only someone who is illogical would think of converting someone shady into a superstar.
(2) As a neutral observer, whose working at a bank and has worked with all these firms, I don't see an appreciable difference. If you do, good for you. And if I were you, I wouldn't go about slandering firms or people that don't meet my quality test, unless I wanted to mean and hateful because of some personal experience.
(3) Hmm, well, that's your perspective. Good for you.
I agree with your suggestion "if I were you, I wouldn't go about slandering firms or people that don't meet my quality test, unless I wanted to mean and hateful because of some personal experience". How about flipping it around and explaining what your interest is in pontifying? It's time to be honest, perhaps not as comfortably numb as we claim!
It's time to be honest, perhaps not as comfortably numb as we claim![/quote]
Wtf is this?
It was a gamble and clearly it did not pay off. Plenty of otherwise stupid partnerships have blossomed, such as LL with Gledhill in Singapore. Go look around boyo.
(2) sorry if the truth is slanderous and hurts your feelings. In my experience, lawyers at banks are anything but neutral. 9 out of 10 they are law firm rejects and harbour a deep inferiority complex that manifests in their wanting to set "quality standards"for law firms they engage.
Glad to see your you managed to spell "comfortably" right this time.
Your knee-jerk response only vindicates what I said brother. And the "I seem to really enjoy this banter" is a classic. Well done.
I no brother of your, brother. You no brother to any body. You brother of Trilegal. (Sorry if I abused you). I wish you rot on LI writing about Trilegal!
Is this a mutual admiration society or is Observer and Comfortably Numb the same person ? Seem to be same person judging by the time stamp
Balaji is presently busy in Sri Lanka. Let him return after the T20 world cup is over
Test these firms and their so called partners before and then you will realize their true value, they cant stand up against a normal Indian firm which does at the least 10 times more m and a deals than these firms and thus the quality of lawyers emanating therefrom are far far better (without mincing any words) than these so called lawyers.
Someone who you should meet on the negotiating table.
Regards
De minimus, basket and the aggregate.
And yes, i have had the unhappy experience of meeting a few lawyers like you on the negotiating table (and having discussed R&W and indemnities!)
dont post comments because you have the option. speak only if you can add value or can actually throw some light on whats happening
aimed at the vindictive pricks like kishen, bbb, Observer and also those who seem to be defending Trilegal by only slinging mud at other firms.
Guys, seriously, this is not a creative writing contest where you come up with conspiracy theories and pit one firm against the other without knowing both sides.
I am not providing any scoop on why? what? because I admit I dont know how firm x works compared to firm Y.
But for the people posting comments- if you are students, focus on your studies or on stuff happening in college. If you are lawyers- then focus on something purposeful and fair.
and if you are these so-called "clients"- then how do you care whats happening? as you all put it you go for the quality of the work right? so keep giving work to the corporate firms (tier 1/2/3 or tier 29 for that matter) you
trust.
Peace out guys.
and hope you all enjoy your Gandhi Jayanti holiday
[quote name="bom mondol"]where did this father of the nation corporate lawyer come from... must be trilegal hired troll[/quote]
From the same place every other sensible person comes from. No surprises you do not know about it.
[quote name="bom mondol"]where did this father of the nation corporate lawyer come from... must be trilegal hired troll[/quote]
From the same place every other sensible person comes from. No surprises you do not know about it.[/quote]
This observer fellow seems to be perennially on LI monitoring said comments page and trying to plug Trilegal criticizers. Sadly, with its reputation, observer remains an observer and nothing more. The damage is done. TL is #29 on the list.. sorry
Frankly, I think A&O realized Trilegal was not matching the quality/technical test and/or the business test. The break-up should result in Trilegal being required to fend for itself on international deals. And possibly lawyer there should prepare for a reduction in associate salaries, which were handsomely revised upwards after the A&O love affair began.
Interestingly, I wonder what will happen to the partner who had moved to Trilegal from A&O, who, it was reported, was lent to Trilegal.
(http://in.reuters.com/article/2009/08/20/idINIndia-41865620090820).
Let's see whether A&O requires repayment on that loan.
In the end allen and overy realised that from a quality perspective, trilegal was just not upto the mark (cant blame Trilegal, they were always a Level II / III firm). From the view of allen overy, bad quality there is lethal to its own clientele. Also, Trilegal is not known for having a deep network in India (unlike AMSS or Luthra). They could not generate any business themselves.
Im sure they will put up a brave face at Trilegal but I think the damage is done. Reputation has taken a major beating and as the poster above has mentioned, it will be difficult to keep offering A grade salaries when youre a C grade firm.
In the end allen and overy realised that from a quality perspective, trilegal was just not upto the mark (cant blame Trilegal, they were always a Level II / III firm). From the view of allen overy, bad quality there is lethal to its own clientele. Also, Trilegal is not known for having a deep network in India (unlike AMSS or Luthra). They could not generate any business themselves.
Im sure they will put up a brave face at Trilegal but I think the damage is done. Reputation has taken a major beating and as the poster above has mentioned, it will be difficult to keep offering A grade salaries when youre a C grade firm.[/quote]
this chap Kishen has an opinion or two regarding every news item published in LI. I am particularly amazed by this statement of his - :"A lot of lawyers do not know this and students certainly not but there are many, many, foreign referrals where the parties have no idea which are the top firms in India". Dude, this guy knows so much stuff which a lot of lawyers dont know. he should be immediately appointed as president of SILF.
Kishen Sir, are you trying to say that clients doing mult-million dollar transactions in India dont do their due diligence and have no idea which law firm they should appoint in India. That they have no idea which are the top law firms or the right law firms to go to for their work. You have absolutely no idea how Indian law firms are given assignments from foreign parties.
Further, I don't understand how you make a statement that "reputation has taken a major beating". How? Just because two best friends decide to part ways, why would reputation take a beating when it comes to the local partner. The parting could be because it no longer made commercial sense. But why would reputation get affected for that. So many top JV partners go their own ways after some years. I dont think that their reputation suffers because such JVs did not make commercial sense.
Regarding your last statement, law firm management and functioning is not all about paying top salaries to associates. Its about getting good work, doing good work, enhancing your reputation and quality in the market and having a vision to grow and institutionalise the firm. Even big firms like AZB have not demonstrated any aspect of seeking to grow and institutionalise the firm. Smaller law firms in lower tiers pay a good amount to its associates (like TTA, Platinum - and at one point P&A) but they are still not tier I firm.
Kishen, you must be a real loser associate who has been rejected by most law firms. Therefore, you only have negative things to say, which have no basis or facts, and you only co-relate everything to salaries to be earned by associates.
I am not a present or former Trilegal person! i am just pissed with the kind "know all" atitude and the stupid comments you keep making on this website...
---------
"Kishen Sir, are you trying to say that clients doing mult-million dollar transactions in India dont do their due diligence and have no idea which law firm they should appoint in India. That they have no idea which are the top law firms or the right law firms to go to for their work. You have absolutely no idea how Indian law firms are given assignments from foreign parties. "
Lets not flatter ourselves that US and European investors know all about Indian law firms. If they are regular investors they might, otherwise they rely completely on what their english / american / german / japanese counsel have to say. (Even plenty of Indian first generation entrepreneurs have no idea about amarchand or azb.)
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"Further, I don't understand how you make a statement that "reputation has taken a major beating". How?"
It demonstrates that something was wrong. As a potential client I do not know if it was Allen Overy's fault or Trilegal's fault but I would give A & O the benefit of doubt. No smoke without fire. And unlike what you say, breakup of JVs in business carries a lot of reputation risk, that risk is more in legal services. It affects the morale of associates also and that translates into poor work quality, hence more reputation risk.
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"Smaller law firms in lower tiers pay a good amount to its associates (like TTA, Platinum - and at one point P&A) but they are still not tier I firm."
Smaller firms pay more to compensate for lesser brand value and the higher business risk that the lawyer is taking in joining them, as compared to a larger firm. Otherwise they will not attract good talent. Thats a universal rule in HR. Tata and ICICI get away paying their employees less than market salary compared to smaller lesser known players. I made an observation that being a C grade firm, Trilegal has to offer generous salaries to retain talent that would otherwise have joined amarchand or azb. Now it will be more difficult to that without Allen Overy's purse.
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"Kishen, you must be a real loser associate who has been rejected by most law firms. Therefore, you only have negative things to say, which have no basis or facts, and you only co-relate everything to salaries to be earned by associates. "
You are entitled to your perception. Remember that most of what I have said has been said by many others. I dont like saying "positive" things for the sake of it and sometimes reality can be nasty. Get used to it.
Trilegal has talented people who they pay shit loads of money to retain (as Kishen put it) and not join tier I firms?
or
IS it that Trilegal has no talented associates who are all third-class and cant find any job because they have ex-Trilegal on the and therefore a certain case of rejection. (as put forth by.. oh wait. Kishen again)