**
The data sourced by Legally India from the LLM Recruitment Co-ordination Committees (RCCs) of NLSIU Bangalore, Nalsar Hyderabad and NUJS Kolkata reveal that 47 out of 118 LLM graduates in 2010-11 opted for academic-oriented careers (see table).
Only around 5 LLM graduates - a mere 4 per cent – secured so-called “desk jobs” in law firms, in stark contrast to the campus recruitment break-ups for LLB graduates where the largest number join law firms.
LLM students from NLSIU, Nalsar and NUJS admitted that even those who managed to secure “desk jobs” did not get the most lucrative jobs in the top tier law firms but mostly managed to secure job contracts in “tier two or tier three” law firms.
Firms did not respond well to overtures by the post-graduate students, one Nalsar LLM graduate told Legally India: “We used to call all the firms and the top tier firms and either their recruitments were already over or they were not interested in taking LLMs.”
“We really do not recruit LLMs from national law schools,” confirmed one recruiter from a national law firm. “But people who after a few years of work like to do LLMs abroad, then we give them the opportunity to take them back.”
Breaking it down
Out of the 50 2011 LLM graduates from NLSIU, only two students have secured jobs in law firms such as Delhi-based Tuli & Co, while around 14 students secured jobs in corporate houses or public sector undertakings (PSUs) such as Bajaj Alliance (2), Tata Motors (2), Edelweiss (2), Larsen and Tubro (2) and Export Credit Guarantee Corporation (6).
“We had a more positive response with companies - in fact they prefer LLMs over LLBs,” claimed one Nalsar LLM pass-out. “I think it is because in law firms the employee population keeps shifting, they move from firm to firm. In companies they keep training and don’t expect them to leave. They prefer LLMs because many are more senior, age-wise, and they expect them to stay on.”
Academically minded?
Around 10 other students from NLSIU secured jobs as professors or research associates in universities such as NLSIU, Kalinga Institute of Technology (KIIT) law department, National Law University (NLU) Orissa, Mumbai University and Tripura University. One other graduate from NLSIU is understood to be working in Clifford Chance’s India-based offshore legal service centre OSC.
A total of 10-11 students from all the three national law universities are either planning to pursue their PhD degrees by writing the National Eligibility Test (NET) or are aiming for higher studies in other countries.
A large number of LLM graduates - 34 graduates or around 29 per cent students from across those three schools - are pursuing other career options such as civil services, litigation or judiciary while a total of 47 graduates or 40 per cent of the LLM students have opted for teaching oriented professions, either taking up positions of research associates or faculty members in various universities.
NUJS assistant professor Shameek Sen, who had also completed his LLB and LLM degrees from NUJS, was of the opinion that LLM degrees are generally taken up for shaping an academic oriented career. “The primary focus is securing academic careers for the students,” he said. “Various teaching internships are offered to students in all national law schools. Students from NLS come to NUJS for teaching students, while NUJS LLM students also go to different universities on teaching internships.”
But he added that the mindset of students has changed now and a “few PSUs and B+ grade law-firms have given offers to NUJS LLM students.”
Competing with the masters
But LLM students across the three top national law schools aired concerns to Legally India about the lack of lucrative corporate jobs for the graduates, while some students also complained of a lack of co-ordination and support from the LLB recruitment committees, which invites leading law-firms, public sector units and corporate houses every year to offer jobs to the final year LLB students.
One member of the NUJS Campus Recruitment Committee (CRC), commenting on the lack of support given to LLM students, said: “We had once been approached at an informal level to facilitate LLM recruitment. However, we declined to pursue it because our existing workload is taxing. Also, in this tough market, at some level, we view them (LLM students) as competition. It is unfortunate, but any CRC’s primary obligation has to be towards the people who elected them (i.e. the final year LLB students).”
According to one member of the 2011 Nalsar LLM batch only six or seven LLM students out of a batch of 60 came from national law schools or CLAT-belt colleges. The rest were from traditional non-CLAT colleges.
One top tier law firm graduate recruiter picked up on this as a reason for not recruiting LLMs. “If you see most of the people – those who do LLMs – they have this bachelor’s degree from not so reputed law institutions who want to get the national law school tag for post graduate [degrees],” he said.
Indian LLM 2010-11 recruitments
| NLSIU | Nalsar (approx.) | NUJS | Totals | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Batch strength | 50 | 60 | 08 (to increase to 20 from 2012) | 118 |
| Academic/teaching careers | 10 | 36 | 1 | 47 |
| Law firms | 2 | 3 | - | 5 |
| Corporate houses | 14 | 3 | 1 | 18 |
| LPO | 1 | - | - | 1 |
| PhD/Higher education | 3 | 2-3 | 5 (incl. 4 preparing for NET) | 10-11 |
| Other options (litigation, judiciary, civil services, etc.) | 20 | 15 (includes 2 grads working in NGOs) | 1 (litigation) | 36 |
Source: Approximate figures from LLM students/recruitment committees surveyed by Legally India
Comments
Hey BOSS it is not BRAND conscious but lack of basic skills in LLM students. HUH!!! I am suffering from my decision to recruit a LLM frm Hyderabad college
faculty members
IV Year
III Year
II Year
I year
dogs rodents cigarette butts
LLMs
This looks like a quote from mental asylum.
thanks A...Exactly this is what I wanted to convey...Joining practice early is always a wise decision...2 years of genuine experience and hard work in courts is always more valuable than an LLM from any Indian law school if the career is legal practice or working in a law firm..but if your LLB is from a below average law college and your learning of law is just about passing university exams and not more, an LLM from a top law school is advisable if a students thinks a career beyond practising in a lower court..
Thanks
Nowadays even LLMs dream of placements! I mean come one, you can't teach the joys of sex to a two year old, can you now?
I don't understand what stops you from considering JGLS as a premier law school..Just 3 year old, this law school has been successful in attracting around 700 students from over 20 states of India and including a dozen or more from abroad also (as per my knowledge)...faculty members who are graduates of world's best law schools like Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, NYU, NUS, etc, etc...a campus which is world-class, a library having all imp. Indian & International legal databases & journals... wonderful hostels, dining by Sodexo...what else you think to make an institution premier? At least check JGLS website before making such comment..in last one month i.e. Oct. 2011, JGLS had 4 distinguished law professors and deans as speakers and guests..from Yale, Harvard, Cornell & UW Madison..see the international conferences organised by it during last 2 months...I'm afraid why you don't think it a premier law school and why six persons have recommended your view?
Placements with TCS:
Manoj SV
Shilpa B ( Now with a Big 4)
Neha Dixit (now with a TCS overseas office)
Mayank
Santosh - Joined Fox Mandal Little
Shweta - Worked with Vaish Associates
Navneet - Worked with Vaish Associates
Naveen - Working with LANCO
Sushil - Working with Chess Legal Compliance Management ( A P Chidambaram concern)
Tarak - working with Sr. Officer (Legal) at Gujarat State Petroleum Corporation Ltd
Please note that this Batch made campus placements for LLMs a sucess at NALSAR and law firms like Wadiya Gandhi visited the campus. So no merit in the statement that the course is just for a career in academics and law firms donot want to recruit LLMs... what is missing is willingness of NLS administration to support its LLM students ( Pls refer to a statement of a college recruitment committee quoted in the article, which emphasises the fact that they donot want to take additional pressure by providing recruitment opportunities to LLM students ???)
Note that the LLM course is a 2 year full time residential course faculty and internship trainings ( best law firms) is the same as that for LLB. Also, the students already have studied for 3 or 5 yrs (LLB, even though the LLB may be at an so called convetional university. The students now come only after passing through CLAT.
Going by the article the top tier law firms / and NLS believe that our National Law colleges not worthy enough and add 0 value to a qualified student's career in 2 yrs. Well than what good would a NLS do in 5 yrs...law firms should look for quality and judge the quality of a student at the time of recruitment though an independent selection procedure open for all students on campus... why have a block of mind when what you are looking for is talent.
There seems to be a clear indication that college admin and recruitment committees lag behind in their efforts for recruitment of LLMs... the question is why??? is the LLM fee being paid by a student going down the drain.
Its sad and un ethical on the part of an academic institution to compartmentalize the opportunities for its LLM students to that of only academics, even when the students are figting to prove them selves in fields such as corporates and Law firms ( They certainly have more years of Law background than an ordinary LLB.. in some cases 7 yrs of Legal studies ( 5 yr LLB + 2 yrs LLM ).
It is a known fact that students do an LLM from an NLS to train themselves for Law firm and corporate jobs.. and the % of those willingly opting for an academic career is very low.
The NLS's of this country should wake up to the need of their LLM students and strive to provide tehm with a condusive environment ... also, if an LLM from an NLS looses value, it is the credibility of an NLS which is at question more than anything else.
The student will always be called a jobless NLSite. :)
I have done an LLM in IPR from UK and believe it makes one hell of a difference - nothing compared to the IP you learnt while doing your LLB. And many firms and in-house welcome this specialisation.
And classes at Univ of London LLM courses is hardly small -- the more popular courses have 100 plus students attending a lecture, with many students standing. And tutorials hardly ever happen since most professors are consultants or legal practitioners (many of them magic circle law firm partners) and too busy with their time.
All this you get by shelling out 12,000 pounds in tuition fees. Quite a steal I would say.
Obviously there is a huge diff between LLMs from LSE/KCL/UCL (where you suggest you have studied) and LLMs from NLSIU/NALSAR/NUJS. There are LLMs from the UK in the top Indian law firms, but there a very few LLMs from NLSIU or NALSAR in Amarchand etc
Amen.
[Nalsar Hyderabad student]
NALSAR LL.M.
There is no logic in comparing LLM with MBA at all. Both are distinct degrees.
[quote name="Absurd"]You seem to me one of those kids who provide preference to the college more than degree which you are getting. A large majority of us are not able to pursue LLM from abroad. Not everyone gets scholarship, neither everyone has such large amount of money to study LLM abroad. So, just because a person, who is interested in law, SHOULD OPT FOR OTHER DEGREE because he is not able to study abroad.
There is no logic in comparing LLM with MBA at all. Both are distinct degrees.[/quote]
1. The kind of comments some LLB students have made shows the lack of Humanity in you. The comments you made here shows that you people have no place for human values. There's no point studying human rights law and participating in big debates / moots and defending the human rights violations somewhere in Afghanistan. All your big achievements go in drain. First, see every person as a human being.
2. Quality of LLB students: no doubt, LLB students are good / smart etc etc. Enough said. Less than 10% of them are really interested in society related works. Only 5% of them really learn the law. At least 20-30% of the students will be not interested in learning. I may cite an example: once a Supreme Court advocate was addressing the students and suddenly asked what is Sedition as per IPC? Not a single LLB student answered. While a LLM student answered it as it was in the bare text. Not to be confused as mugging up, he even did explain the things in a beautiful way.
3. Five years versus two years: What LLB students achieve is done over a period of 5 years. Most of them take 2 years to get to know the law school life and understand how to make career decisions. There are at least 8-10 opportunities all over their campus life to do internships. They do internship first with a small advocate, then a small law firm and then finally a big firm and end up in a big law firm. Compare it with the LLMs who have less than 2 years in the campus. By the time they realise about internships, the time is gone. By the time of placements, only one internship will be done. Compare this with a LLB student who will surely have about 4-5 internships by all means. It is no big deal to have a few extra curricular / debates / moots achievements in the whole 5 years of time.
4. Administration support: no NLU supports LLBs or LLMs as it is. Its just that the committees which run the activities have 99% LLB students. As i heard from a NALSAR LLM passout, they were not allowed to participate in any cultural events! NLSIU i heard is a bit lenient. NUJS i heard is also better. What opportunities the LLBs get is all created by themselves through alumni contacts, good internships and good contacts.
5. Standard of LLM students: agreed that LLMs are not as smart as LLBs. But, there are talents in LLMs too. Problem is of lack of exposure. Give opportunity and they too can prove. But, the limited period of 2 years does not allow them to make a strong foundation. LLM students are unwelcome on all committees. Not that they cannot do the work. But, because the LLBs do not wish to work with them.
6. Big law firms not a criteria: end of the day, what big work is done at a law firm? I have heard several alumni asking the young students: "do you still want to work with a law firm and do the same donkey work?". All the reasoning learnt in law school, all the pro poor comments made in debates goes in drain once a LLB joins a law firm. Comparatively, LLMs are doing better job at other places. As told by a NALSAR LLM passout, their batchmates are in good places. Law firms have not preferred LLMs does not mean that the LLMs are of low quality. Law firms are in no way a standard to measure the quality of students. What law firms need is: well dressed, good english speaking / excellent writing skilled person who can be also good at finding where the law is. When i checked the profiles of several law department persons at SEBI, MCA, and other National level institutions, i found that they were all having their LLM from some law school. They did their LLB from a small town law college. I know a person who recently passed out from a top NLU who is now working in CCI assisting in drafting the National Competition Policy. This is the kind of works Top Indian Law School students are supposed to take up after getting world class education. Give a simple 6 months computer + English + research training to any lowest of the low law college's average student. And he/she can do the same law firm job easily. I don't ask you not to join big law firms. I mean, after spending huge money for 5 years, you need to get back your investments (at a time when edu has become nothing but investment of money).
All i say is that you people don't do any extra ordinary work. Nor LLMs are as good as you. (i'm not balancing, im trying to tell what the reality is). That doesn't mean you can just make crap comments about them.
Finally, my message to the system: there's a confusion among the professors and top administration about the LLM courses. They have made it just like another diploma programme which can fetch them some money. At all the law schools, finance is the key for a lot of things. What do the professors say about LLM? They say you people need to go for academics. Academics cant happen without NET qualification. And they say do further research. But, there's no strategic understanding with National level regulators / govt. departments / institutions / judiciary etc. NLSIU VC recently announced that they would be starting LLM in teaching laws from next academic year. Taking this cue, all the other law schools need to make a course in LLM in teaching laws. And put in less number of students in corporate laws and other streams and train them for national level institutions and regulatory organisations. A law firm job can just happen inside the campus. But to be recognised in national level insti's takes some time.
Rather than saying LLM course is not good, students are crap.... Better suggest the ways of fixing the system.
http://www.firstpost.com/business/instead-of-judging-iit-students-fix-the-system-chetan-bhagat-to-murthy-99552.html
You people have failed to take a broader view of the whole situation here. Sad that the top law school students are unable to make matured comments!
All the statutes which you are studying were not drafted by NLU passouts (except the recent ones). They were all drafted by the same students of crap universities.
MV Pylee was from Cochin univ, MP Jain from Banaras Hindu univ. Shukla and Pandey from Allahabad univ.
Given that the 90% of NLU passouts are doing mechanical work, its better that the 5 year course be reduced to a mere 2 years rigorous computer training + basic legal skills + english skills course. And then the law firms can recruit them. Even the amount to be paid as fees will reduce.
Similarly, NALSAR has a course in IPR, corporate laws etc, each stream specializing in thir course. You can't expect everyone to get in a top tier firm. So also with NLIU, they have science and tech, corporate and general laws. How do all of them expect to get placed with a law firm?
My general observations: Next about those joining from second-rate colleges is also a fallacy. 100s of students from these so called second-rate colleges are complete professionals and are more than competent to do their jobs. The NLS system started a mere two decades ago and the legal system with all these firms have been started by non-nlsites. I've seen in my two years at NLS incompetent LLB students who spent half their time on weed and booze and with so many backs that anybody else would have buried themselves neck deep in S**t in shame getting placed with good law firms. I believe these so called NLS students are actually a bunch of bullies who suffer from a sever inferiority complex and are afraid to compete with the rest of the country. Any jack who has drafted an SPA, SSA and SHA for a year can do what these so called NLS students do and also at a fraction of the cost. God only knows from where do these chaps think they are better at it.
One must also inform the rest of the country that when the individual NLUs had their masters entrances, they could keep the quality of entrances pretty good. The CLAT batches which got through when NLS had prepared the entrance papers are pretty well placed and comfortable. It is only when NUJS and NLIU prepared the paper that level of students in LL.M has fallen drastically and any bugger who can memorize his consti and jurisprudence have got through. This has led to a drastic drop and dilution both in the quality of the course and also level of students. And during the course instead of learning a trick or two from the LL.B students and writing papers and interning, they waste their time doing only once compulsory internship and spend nice vacations. If at all they are looking for jobs at a law firm they must prepare for it on a war footing and try to learn that which is necessary and get PPOs rather than waiting for placements on campus. It is better to aim for the moon and reach the terrace. Tier-1 law firms world over prefer students from premier firms but once you are in the profession it is experience and quality of work that matter. LL.Ms need to work extra hard to get placed and only hard work can succeed.