A brutal resignation email by an ▮▮▮ [corrected: A3] is doing the rounds in lawyer circles. Blames several Senior Partners by name. The email was also marked to Mr Bahl.
Personally believe this guy is on another planet. There are enough mechanisms in an organization to submit grievances and it is strictly confidential too. No point in venting out frustration on seniors in a resignation letter when you have probably got a better "deal" at the new company. Everyone understands the pressure in any privately help organization and onus is on the individual how he wants to chart his career. I think he is still in his college days and not know about challenges a organization has to face with cut throat competition and challenging deadlines. Naming and shaming individuals on public platform is highly unwelcomed approach by the individual who probably doesnot understand the nuances of running a business. I wish good luck to the guy but will back Abhishek, Shahrukh and Nupur mentioned in the email. I am sure they must have been frustrated with the regular negligent attitude of the person and surely would have protected him multiple times from direct fire of customers/clients. People really don't understand sometimes that respect is not snatched, it is earned and in this case the guy has 100% lost the plot and is no good to any organisation.
A part from being a useless employee, he seems to be a loose Canon who doesn't want to take any feedback or criticism in the right way but blame everyone.
Ek or uncle agye Toxic or evil loggo ko justify karnee ke liye. It always victim blaming god damn egocentric individual who are master of manipulation are having this trait
Uncle please go and lie down in your coffin of billable hours and alimony checks. This was a legitimate case of harassment and I've witnessed it firsthand
This is not surprising in the least. ▮▮▮ The official reasons I imagine are different. There’s no effective mechanism within the firm to complain without fear of repercussions.
Whatever the backstory, I can 100% believe that the A0 was ill-treated. It takes guts to complain in general but extra guts in this case given the people involved.
Dear all, I had been associated with AZB from the time the firm came into existence and had known Hardeep Sachdeva and Abhishek forever. Let me tell you that Ajay Behal, Hardeep, Abhishek are all really down to earth people and this circulation is highly motivated. There is no way AZB could have treated anyone in this manner.
I have known Abhishek for more than 25 years and AZB for several years. Their professionalism is impeccable and have always seen them as straightforward but respectful lawyers. Its a demanding profession and not everyone is cut out for it. performance and merit are above all and high incentives are also due to this demanding merit based system. Once cannot expect to have all the incentives/perks of the job but not take the pressure.
Every profession is demanding if you wish to excel but the toxicity of excess working hours due to partner selfishness and inability to push unreasonable deadlines, combined with a rat race attitude widely being promoted-not justified
I have been working with Abhishek for few years now and have found him, very professional and great attorney, more over I found him a great human being. I don't think the above allegations on Abhishek are true, it looks totally made up to me.
You have been working “with” and not “for” Abhishek. Big difference in treatment. Clients work with lawyers, so they get good treatment. Associates work for partners, so not such good treatment.
Just read the contents. How this poor chap has put his entire professional career at stake. Its the state in every other Tier 1 practice, and no other firm or seniors have different expectations. Making the mistakes and pointing to the unreasonable expectations of seniors, have never helped. The un-hasty email shows how impatient this A0 has been. Not sure, how this email would help him including in landing a job in any other firm. Must be in scout for jobs with other firms, and firms will definitely be precautious, as in if he can do this with one, he can do this anywhere. AC:(
Why would you hold a grudge instead of accepting that it’s a mistake on seniors end? It’s not that hard to accept and say sorry and do better? Unless you want to beef and be rigid and prove that only your way is the right way, don’t see an issue.
Jindal uncle sunno in his email its apparent that his senior were hell bent of stretching the associate to such mind numbing extent so that it would break them away. How toxic world can be!
R, by leaving this nice album up with the name of the associate you have effectively allowed people to look into his background and pass unnecessary comments. Seems like you only allow moderation to protect law firms and couldn't care less about what happens to anyone else, more less dox an associate who's resignation has gone viral. 5 hours ago someone asked this to be removed and instead of looking into it, mods are allowing other comments to be posted. The contents of the email are accessible from other links. Please for heaven's sake to protect this kid take it down.
No, it’s real. And this team is known ▮▮▮, even by AZB standards which are already rock bottom. Won’t be the first or last time sometime there was subjected to bad behaviour, intense insecurity and a hostile environment on the pretext of “client centricity” or what have you.
Anyone who assumes an A0 would be willing to be some senior partners pawn at the risk of jeopardising their own career, without having a good reason to make a complaint, is just being delusional about how bad the situation can get for AOs, and how little agency they have.
Sad part is, the complainant was forced to write an apology but no action has been taken or will be taken against the perpetrators. Not a surprise I suppose.
Have been part of this team earlier which is full of seasoned lawyers. The person was unable to deal with genuine expectations and has on the contrary, ended up writing this. Hope better sense prevails on A0.
I have been part of this team for a while now and I can personally vouch for it that its one of the best teams I have worked with. What I feel is that Hardeep rallies everyone in his team along with him and nurtures each and everyone of us. To generalize and write such mean stuff can never be right. Seeing one side of the coin, making perception basis a disgrunted and mis guided person/ associate, who could not deliver in time even for one time or with 20% of what he was expected to do is highly wrong and not appreciated. This appears to be a media trail of sort, with people naming and shaming just to have fun or take some kind saddistic pleassure of a sought. What I see that Hardeep and all the Senior members in the team nurture and guide everyone in the team. We all believe in working hard and all of us are client centric. The goal is never to ask any associate or junior to do any thing which the senior asking dosen't do it himelf.
And no one forced the complianant to write an apology. ▮▮▮
Spelling the beans- Doesnt seem like an A0 keeping big balls and writing an email to a Senior Partner CCing Managing Partner of a Tier 1 firm. More an act of inducement by a 'Lured Partner' who has recently been asked to leave the firm due to POSH issues... Kahaani me kahaani...
Hardeep's team is very famous for ▮▮▮ behaviour and attrition. Why don't you tell us how many A0s that they hired in the last decade are still with that team?
The entire lot of seniors in the team have been nurtured in last decade, and have been raised from A0s. The industry hates those who are loved by clients. Its shocking to see the constant growth of the team and the firm, with such an attrition rate. Try next door please!!!
Some of the topics regarding new breed of associates are not published. Also there was post which was about the “real story” has also mysteriously vanished.. not sure why.. can the truth be republished . lets have full picture in place.. and not just oneside story.. hail legally india
hahahaha.. kaam nahi karenge, aur paise bhi pure lenge.. isse bolte hain hypocrisy. the law schools have produced some of the BS lawyers in past decade. when they are shown the mirror, they say that the place of work is toxic. this is the story in every T1.
Again god damn victim blaming. You yourself has resorted to ad hominem shows your level of bias, clearly letter depicted otherside of story what associate has to undergo even when he is doing work. Clearly he was abused, ridiculed even threatened when he was with his mother due to health emergency. Badae ayye team dedication and paise ki baat karne inka baaz chale toh kabrr se bhi utha ke kaam karvaye
Oh no, nothing wrong with him or his upbringing. I'm a PA at 8 PQE right now at one of the S/CAM and I'd do the same if my partner spoke to me like that.
This is twisted story of the email posed as summary. Rather the complainant guy was abused every time irrespective of his work in front of everytime. Every senior abuse Please read the contents of email as been seen on twitter
No one ever abused this guy ever. if some one is asked to work professionally does that mean you are abusing him. Don't want to work please feel free to sit at home. There cant be all 3-4 people having grdge againt one guy without a reason. Stop this abuse yourself first.
You probably treat your juniors the same way and expect them to keep shut hm? Also if you don’t know stuff it’s better to not write trash about someone
When a SA or PA has their ego hurt they tend to turn the entire team on the one chap who hurt their ego.Partners do worse, tgey can turn the entire firm on that one chap.It definitely happens and for real its abuse.
Well, please read the contents of the email again! He doesn’t say he was “abused”. Rather, he was called out for his poor work. Hell lot of a difference!
Oh please. Don't trivialise this conversation by saying things like top-tier college and BigLaw.
A. Top Tier colleges guarantee you nothing. In the past 16 years, I have came across many so called "non-top tier" college students who had the same zeal to be something in life. In fact, as a part of the so-called BigLaw, I can tell you that the difference in number of "top-tier" and "non-top tier" people making through the hierarchy has narrowed down.
B. BigLaw is sooner or later going to fall. It is nothing but an organised industry which artificially charges hyper-inflated bills to the client on the pretext of quality of service and client-centricity.
In fact, post-covid, a sizeable number of partners have gone on to establish their own set-ups. One of the factors determining this phenomenon was the want of dignity and fair amount of independence in life.
Even if I assume that somehow within 3 months of joining the seniors and the partners miraculously figured out that this associate is absolutely horrible at his job, isn't it a part of the seniors' and partners' job description to train this associate and maybe give him more than 3 months to do better? Not everyone can fit in everywhere immediately, maybe for him it took a little longer. The kind of work we do at law firms can be easily taught, it's not some rocket science, if only seniors actually train them.
Every single profession has a learning curve which often involves training on ground, observing how seniors work, learning from their mistakes and being given the time to adjust with the new team/boss. But somehow law firms miss out on all these and specially the training on ground aspect completely and believe that making juniors attend 100s of knowledge management lectures or conducting week-long induction session will automatically turn law students into experienced lawyers when we all know the limited practical experience that law students from both NLU and non-NLUs have. Yet the juniors are subjected to continuous ridicule, bullying and constantly made to feel like they are worthless in a profession where one literally learns while working.
If an A0 was unlucky to be in a team that didn't bother to train them or treated them in a horrible manner, then they will leave the team without gaining actual professional/ practical knowledge however their theoretical knowledge is still good enough to get them another job. So, while they move on to another law firm, their lack of professional/ practical experience follow them attracting labels like "non-performing asset", "liability" and being subjected to similar horrors and ridicule all over again.
Unlike other professions, law firms don't have a real HR department, a proper feedback system or training accountability which makes it very easy for people of a certain seniority to get away with anything because they know at the end of the day they will just say that the junior is bad at their job and avoid training them. Not like there's an HR department to hold them accountable and none of the members of the management will bother because they have probably done the same thing.
Don't like a junior's existence and want to make them quit? Just say non-performing asset and stop giving them work. A client or a friend wants their relative to get a job in your team- fire an existing junior with no contacts to accommodate this new junior by citing non-performance. Did a junior disagree with you, a senior or a partner on something? Say the junior is a non-performing asset, has bad attitude and force them to quit. Want to promote that one junior who sucks up to the partner/ senior over another who prefers to just work quietly and go home? Don't promote them by citing poor performance and lack of leadership. Don't want to pay the bonus amount promised? Don't say anything the whole year but on the week before the bonus payment just say that their performance wasn't upto the mark and pay them peanuts. Not doing enough business and need to reduce your team size without letting the world know you don't have enough business? Cite poor performance of associates and fire them. That's how easy it is.
But ofcourse these are private entities who are not answerable to anybody. Law students join these firms voluntarily knowing about their horrible work culture. But the least one can do is acknowledge that these things are more likely to happen to a junior and not go out of your way to protect the seniors and partners by blaming the junior. If it didn't happen to you and a team has been nice to you then don't just assume that it didn't happen to another junior. These seniors and partners have enough mechanism to protect themselves without you going out of your way to take their side. Partners at that level have nothing to lose professionally or personally but the junior can easily lose a lot.
You are just proving the point mentioned above. Saying that a person has an "attitude problem" is just vague and this is the kind of feedback seniors and partners give juniors when they have nothing constructive to say and get away with it. If an "attitude" doesn't work for one team, doesn't mean that the same attitude won't work for another team, so clearly there's no one "attitude" that works for every law firm. What does work across teams is good output which can be achieved by proper training.
Can’t believe people are blaming the poor chap on this thread!! That guy staked everything to stand up against something most of us would never be able to.
Its a great team to be in. The atmosphere and learning is wonderful. Just because this associate was unable to meet genuine requirements, does not take away anything from Hardeep and his team. HS will continue to be a rock star because of his in-depth knowledge.
And who are you to judge that? Have you been a part of the team? Having such in-depth knowledge on the alleged toxicity! I smell personal vendetta there!
The below is the Twitter status containing the letter: https://twitter.com/maryhoeliver/status/1699421240522379266?s=20 Anyone care to upload the apolog email that was apparently coerced out of him? AAlso, do they realise that an apology email only seems more toxic?? This ▮▮▮ ▮▮▮
This is exactly why foreign law firms are needed in India. Lets just hope that this reaches BCI and they revoke the entry of foreign law firms in India as requested by SILF.
You are under a false impression, Dude. People like him will not be able to survive for a second in foreign law firms. At least this team gave him an opportunity to mend his ways.
You please join him and be a great lawyer like him, he should be your role model rather than the stalwarts, like Hardeep, who have carved out name for themselves by slogging.
This is very common. These firms are extremely toxic. Still kids will run to these places because they have no alternative and that's a face. Most of the tier 1 firms are bad and toxic. And some of the them speak very sweetly while giving you work but in reality they want you to work day in and day out by not sleeping, otherwise they will not allowing to grow in the firm.
These ‘kids’ certainly have other alternative options! You want everything served on a platter. Job with a reputed law firm, money, and wanting to NOT work. That’s a pretty amazing deal.
All tier 1 firms are same. Remember. Equally bad and toxic. and the some of the associates are harrassers. They make kids cry and make them hate law. and people don't have any other alternative but to join them and these firms enjoy their craze. and exploit them.
To be expected. I've heard horror stories about AZB. Including coffee being thrown at associates by senior staff and the Bangalore litigation partner slapping an associate in a hotel lobby for forgetting to carry a document. I would advise all young lawyers I know to avoid working there.
This is exactly what you have heard - stories. I have been here for quite some time now and this is not the AZB culture, certainly not in Delhi.
Over a reasonable career span, is there a person who has not committed a mistake or not pulled up by their seniors? It is not possible. But I fear for the younger generation, who seem too sensitive / delicate to handle any kind of feedback by seniors? What should seniors do if an associate is not performing well - mollycoddle? Or not give feedback because the trigger-happy junior will leak it on social media?
Younger lawyers sometimes fail to appreciate that real world consequences depend on their action / inactions - but do not always demonstrate the maturity to accept feedback and improve themselves. Why - coz some post on L.I. could be a good way to create ruckus? Ridiculous.
HS teams is one of the largest in the firm and have a great practice. No one is saying that it is going to be easy working in a law firm - but when has anything worthwhile been easy? You want easy - find a different profession. Things are going to be demanding here!
Rather people should focus on improving themselves, which will necessarily involve feedback from seniors. Writing a post on LI is not courage - being open to feedback and improving yourself is.
This revelation isn't surprising, but I do empathize with the young man for his courage and slight naivety in sending that email. While I don't feel sympathy for those he called out, I'm concerned about the potential backlash he may encounter. I hope he possesses the strength to navigate the challenges in a world filled with ego-driven individuals who mask their insecurities with grand titles like 'Senior Partner.' It seems naive of him to expect justice from the very power structures that may have wronged him. I hope he takes some time to reflect and strategize his next steps carefully. The corporate law realm often thrives on the insecurities of these "senior partners" and their acolytes. Over time, one either adapts to this environment or becomes part of the problem.
One of the biggest reasons why foreign law firms should come to India as fast as possible. There should be a bare minimum professionalism and dignity that is expected in this domain of India, which the so called law firms severely lack. Competition from the more dignified foreign law firms would put them in their real position.
I've been familiar with the legal industry for quite some time, and I must say that tier I law firms are known for their intense environment. It's a place where the competition is fierce, and the pressure can be overwhelming. It's not for everyone, and not everyone thrives in such an environment.
I've also heard positive stories about the team at this tier I law firm. They've provided opportunities to many individuals who have not only grown professionally but also as individuals. The collaborative environment and mentorship have been instrumental in shaping successful careers, both within and outside the firm. It's worth mentioning that every workplace has its challenges, and it's crucial to maintain a balanced perspective. While we discuss the concerns raised by this person, let's also acknowledge the many achievements and supportive aspects of the team that have contributed to the success of so many.
Regarding the allegations made by this A0, it's essential to approach such claims with a balanced view. Allegations in a high-pressure work environment can sometimes be highly exaggerated or not entirely reflective of the team's conduct. It's essential to encourage transparency and dialogue to address these concerns properly. While some issues may exist, we should be cautious about jumping to conclusions without a complete understanding of the situation.
I genuinely hope that A0 learns from this experience, whether it was a genuine cry for help or a reaction to anticipated challenges. Ultimately, the legal profession is demanding, and it's crucial for individuals to find the right fit for their skills and temperament. Let's support one another in navigating these challenges and wish him the best in his future endeavors.
Since when it has become a felony to tell a fellow lawyer/ associate his mistakes in work and guiding them. Does it make a person/ law firm/ team toxic. If that is the case, then every organization, whether a law firm/ or otherwise are toxic. Instead of sulking and alleging unprofessionalism, the associate should be thankful for getting the right guidance and withdrawing his email.
This email alleging unprofessionalism is really laudable, and mind it that these comments of unprofessionalism are coming from an associate who does not even know what professionalism means and who has been jumping boats every 6 months.
It is also true that such mindless comments are coming from associates who are part of the mutual admiration club, and who have either become disinterested in work or have been given notice to look for other jobs. It is very easy for fence sitters to make malicious comments just for the sake of having fun. I have personally seen this guy being absent from client meetings since he had an urge to smoke.
The people who are applauding the guts of this associate and treating this as revolutionary step, must hire this guy, and get ready for the next viral story….
@Lucky ali . Everyone is angry because guys is mistreated and publically humloated irrespective fo his work. All has been threatened to take leave for taking leave in case of health emergency of family members by a so called senior partner. This is abhoring and can't be justified in any sense!
@LuckAli+PR (lol) : Your comments, running in paragraphs, makes no concrete argument in favour of the people accused of bullying. Discrediting the accuser, is lowest and obvious form of defence, honestly. Such a pity that you guys have totally missed the plot. The correct thing to do would be to release a formal statement acknowledging the allegations in the email, and assurance that necessary measures will be taken to ensure that a culture of bullying and harassment is actively discouraged within the institution. Stop using this platform to justify what is clearly wrong. Makes you guys look stu**d.
I have worked with few partners and still doing doing on regular basis. As a member of the community, I would like to share my thoughts and experiences; Highly Professional and and goal oriented partners and teams. Lets have sw
Nothing to do with this particular associate, but in general, do you all not feel that most of "newbies" nowadays are very disinterested in work. They want everything to be handed to them in silver platter, always making excuses to get out of work, have a very laid back attitude, absolute no sense of ownership and only interested in the pay and increment. They don't own up to mistakes and act entitled. Not trying to justify toxic behaviour of law firms/ seniors but trying to make a point that the current batch of associates are also not that innocent.
Yesterday was a holiday and my boss doesn't make me work on holidays. You inadvertently disclosed a lot about AZB as a workplace by assuming I would be working on a holiday.
It’s surprising how much credit is being given to someone’s story without any verification! Since when we as lawyers started believing anything that anyone would just upload (actually ever since LI came into existence). ▮▮▮ No one is asking who leaked this, obviously can’t be 2 out of the 3 recipients. It’s so simple to tarnish anyone’s image thanks to LI / twitter/ WhatsApp. Write anything about anyone (do hell with verification of facts! miss the good old days of true journalism) and it catches the eye of like-minded souls. No one asked if these statements are true? Or if these are exaggerated or not.
The moral of the story is that Gen Z is very different. Gen Z are not doormats like Gen X/Gen Y. They will will not tolerate toxicity, bigotry, prejudice, homophobia, transphobia and abuse.
Agreed. then let Gen Z know that AZB Is not a place for them, and also let them know to stop their mom and pops, chachas and uncle from calling the bosses and seeking favours to get their son/ daughters/ nephew/ niece in AZB..
Or the need to do a proper days work. Or work. Or do anything m they just want to take.take and take and not give anything in return. Bunch of entitled freeloaders.
Let's refresh our memory with what SILF told the Modi government a few months ago while opposing liberalisation:
"The second objection was that the Indian entities in India would lose their hold over young lawyers as once the foreign lawyers and firms enter the Indian market, they will emerge as the first choice for internship and jobs considering their pro-employee policies, pay, work environment and professionalism."
The second objection was most ludicrous reason they(domestic law firm) just want to exploit indian talent by behaving sub par level, abusing them, engaging in Nepotism etc. They just want to keep their hegemony by restricting foreign law firm.
Before that, when one Hindu king was raping and pillaging other kingdoms, was it not like being attacked by a foreigner? In Bengal, when the Marathas kept on doing the same before 1757, it sure felt like the same.
Neither is LI allowing anything to be said against Vaish Associates' Mumbai office on another thread. It is a known fact that one of the partners there is dismissive of people if he feels that they are not rich enough and is known to even talk to potential applicants in the interview that way. This particular partner and another partner in the Mumbai office are very rude and arrogant people, who derive a lot of pleasure in talking down to others. Wish LI would allow others to openly talk about this.
I worked with Abhishek for a year during early stage of my career. Never found him yelling on anyone. He was a brilliant mentor. Subsequently, when I moved inhouse, he happened to be advising us on transactions. Again, found him same, very down to earth.
I'm not even in a law firm. Can I just say- prima facie this email does not read as an abusive or hostile environment for me. He was told his work was not good enough and his performance was not good enough- well what do you want people to do when youre underperforming? coddle you? Why would you take that as humiliation when you can ask what you need to fix and then fix it? He was told that the work culture was intense? Why does every work culture need to be laid back? Ambition is not an evil thing and some people do want to work harder and be better than others- those people end up doing good things for the world. Maybe the firm life is not for you- but on the face of it that doesnt make the culture toxic. That rubberband analogy is essentially the senior telling the kid- hey, buck up, dont let the pressure get to you- figure out how you can be better everyday, resilience is an important quality. Why is that a bad thing? thats one of those things you learn about life generally no? "We'll treat you the way we were treated"- they clearly dont think they were abused- they think it contributes to a productive work culture that they personally find rewarding. If theyre sitting on their fat asses and making you work more than them- thats something - but thats not even alleged. In fact its essentially telling the employe "we arent targetting you specifically- youre not some scapegoat, everyone goes through this- toughen up". He was asked to send in work on time? Shock Horror. He was threatened with a firing if he missed an important deliverable? Yeah, youre in a service profession. If you cant be of service to your clients what do you expect? Maybe they could have been more considerate if the guys mom was in the hospital- but also why are you leaving things till the very last minute so you taking a day off disrupts the entire organisation? Doesnt everyone try to stay a day or two ahead on their work just to account for this stuff? I had an emergency first year when I was working, couldnt go into work for a few days- my boss was rightly annoyed at what seemed like flaky behavior for him. I had a conversation, kept his expectations in check and was honest with him about what happened. When he saw a few months later that that was not me being lazy or lying- and that it was genuinely a one off thing- he softened and continued to mentor me and help with my career. My bet is that this is not the first time this guy has flaked on something and then had an excuse. Honestly law firm work isnt exactly brain surgery- my friends are partners and they tell me that as associates they mostly did the same things day after day except for an interesting deal here and there. just stay on top of your work and dont leave things till last minute and communicate your needs.
What is the alleged humiliation? Just telling him his work is not good enough and he is not meeting standards? That CANNOT be humiliation. You cannot go into a work place and expect everyone to fall in love with you and not evaluate your work fairly. Its part of working to have your supervisors tell you how youre doing- take some feedback. No one is perfect, and early career folks have a lot to learn- set aside your ego.
He said hes demotivated because of the criticism? I mean sorry, but thats on you mate. Be an adult, understand criticism is part of any job, find out how you can do better and execute. You cannot put other people and their approval in charge of your professional success. No one will sing your praises hoping you do better. When youre not honest with your juniors about their flaws they dont think that theres anything they need to fix.
To write a company wide email instead of addressing the stressful stuff with your superiors in a collegial manner? And then to leak it to the internet? This guy has shown remarkable immaturity. I wouldnt hire him again unless he was very remorseful and took some responsibility for his part in all this.
I think many people are projecting their negative experiences and assuming a bunch of bad stuff happened that the complaint doesnt even allege. These all seem pretty mild allegations and I wouldnt quit over any of this. Id try and figure out what I should do better or if this is a good fit for me.
I dont think genz is more sensitive to injustice. How many of them are worried about labour conditions for people that arent them? I think genz is sensitive to criticism. The two arent the same thing at all. most of this stuff isnt toxic or abusive- and that concept creep does real harm to people who suffer workplace discrimination and abuse on the basis of immutable characteristics. If youre being paid tons of money to do work- you better know that the people paying you will expect your work to be good.
Any work place, any form of bullying is Not Okay. There is a reason, work ethics and professional conduct has been set up. Use the appropriate legitimate redressal mechanisms to sort out typical or even irregular employee issues or matters, (even if the employee comes under the scope of a "domestic house-help"). Any form of verbal, physical or mental harassment meant to demean a human being, just because they are your employee is simply Not Okay.
Leaving a toxic workplace is an act of bravery and not of defeat.
One Tier 2 MP says me today that this work don't require application of mind that's why only I give this to you. It hurts. I know I'm not good enough like my peers and may be end up being unemployed as there are lot of issues in my life. I don't know basic conversation also but we should never be say Dumb person infront of him or her Dumb It make them feel low. Let everyone live this life peacefully. People in today's world have no more ethics, love, respect, motals. What they have only is to be top in the game than whatever kind of sins you do everything is justified. Mumbai people connect to me. I need support.
What's this new 'lack of sufficient seniority' and user above level 10, only who can read some of the comments? Want to understand what's this. Can a moderator explain?
Hats off to the Associate for standing up for yourself and a big FU to all the law firm peeps refusing to acknowledge their toxic behaviour.
@kianganz, the comment structure is confusing! I don't know which comment is a reply to some other comment or if it is a comment on the main topic. I think numbering/indexing of the comments will be nice! Also, maybe increase the width of these comment boxes?
Bumping this to understand if there has been any change in AZB after this exit. I hope the firm has taken active steps in improving its work environment.
Atleast people exposing these partners is good, true or not, people would learn to be accountable for their actions and they cannot treat their associates in any way they like.
It is high time the legal field starts treating its employees with basic human dignity.
The Associate has to be applauded for his courage. This event, at the very least, should be a warning for lawyers to start treating their colleagues better. Not just juniors but clerks and office admin as well. I have worked with Abhishek at the start of my career and can relate to everything this kid has mentioned. He is worse (in my opinion). But this is not merely a Big law firm culture. Culture of abuse and intimidation reeks deep in the legal profession.
I have been associated with Abhishek since almost 12 years and have never experienced such issues. Your opinion is not everybody's opinion Boss! Its so easy to blame anyone, but be considerate of the fact that you may have somewhere learnt something from him. You too are toxic bro.
Indeed, I learnt an important lesson from limited my interactions with him (he was not my reporting partner)- never be so cocky and dismissive of other people´s efforts.
You're literally contradicting yourself, your opinion isn't everyone's either. Mere association with someone and working with someone are two completely different things. People can be nice otherwise and horror shows to work with. Maybe look inwards before making sweeping statements of toxicity about a random person.
II why being so delusional! Abhishek could become the senior partner of the biggest and best law firm in this country because he very well deserves to be there. I think you just know to use words like to I like toxic and don’t trivialise his achievements! Totally jealous nothing else. First achieve what he has at such a young age then talk.
The worst part is firm is forcing their members to defend their Partners/Associates on LI, write comments on how good the work culture in AZB. Seems Z is really pissed off with this ▮▮▮.
We all know that it takes hell lot of hardwork, dedication and perseverance to become a Senior Partner of the top lawfirm of the country. Very conveniently we have undermined these facts and are hell bent to tarnish the image of one such hardworking Senior Partner. It's good to sympathise with the Associate, however, it's fiddle to malign the image of the Senior Partner, who is a human being too. Stop spreading hatred. Chill karlo yaaron.
"After reading the posts here, it is clear that youngsters and specially incompetent, under-performers and back door entrants are inventors of new age terminology. Toxic, mental harassment and what not, seriously ? Where is the will to perform ?" this is the realty.. posted from other thread..
Shocked to see- since when this trend has started that if somebody is guiding you to be like a rubber band, and trying to explain to you to be the better professional, he has become toxic and humiliating. This generation should understand the perseverance
Whatever the backstory, I can 100% believe that the A0 was ill-treated. It takes guts to complain in general but extra guts in this case given the people involved.
https://imgbb.com/
https://twitter.com/maryhoeliver/status/1699421240522379266
Copy paste the link in the browser, if it doesn't work
Here is the link to the imgur album. [Link redacted, reveals name of person]
Do you think any A0 will say anything when AZB will threaten or pressurise him, or are you AZB HR Team by which I mean ▮▮▮ ▮▮▮.
Anyone who assumes an A0 would be willing to be some senior partners pawn at the risk of jeopardising their own career, without having a good reason to make a complaint, is just being delusional about how bad the situation can get for AOs, and how little agency they have.
Sad part is, the complainant was forced to write an apology but no action has been taken or will be taken against the perpetrators. Not a surprise I suppose.
Could you provide the link to Twitter for the email?
And no one forced the complianant to write an apology. ▮▮▮
15+ lawyers in his team are with him for over 10 years.
Funny how everyone sides with the big dog in these situations.
And that “senior partner” was only calling this “chap” out for his lackadaisical attitude towards work.
Just because he was asked to work, doesn’t mean he can say whatever he wishes to.
▮▮▮
A. Top Tier colleges guarantee you nothing. In the past 16 years, I have came across many so called "non-top tier" college students who had the same zeal to be something in life. In fact, as a part of the so-called BigLaw, I can tell you that the difference in number of "top-tier" and "non-top tier" people making through the hierarchy has narrowed down.
B. BigLaw is sooner or later going to fall. It is nothing but an organised industry which artificially charges hyper-inflated bills to the client on the pretext of quality of service and client-centricity.
In fact, post-covid, a sizeable number of partners have gone on to establish their own set-ups. One of the factors determining this phenomenon was the want of dignity and fair amount of independence in life.
Even days: “BigLaw demise is imminent”.
Every single profession has a learning curve which often involves training on ground, observing how seniors work, learning from their mistakes and being given the time to adjust with the new team/boss. But somehow law firms miss out on all these and specially the training on ground aspect completely and believe that making juniors attend 100s of knowledge management lectures or conducting week-long induction session will automatically turn law students into experienced lawyers when we all know the limited practical experience that law students from both NLU and non-NLUs have. Yet the juniors are subjected to continuous ridicule, bullying and constantly made to feel like they are worthless in a profession where one literally learns while working.
If an A0 was unlucky to be in a team that didn't bother to train them or treated them in a horrible manner, then they will leave the team without gaining actual professional/ practical knowledge however their theoretical knowledge is still good enough to get them another job. So, while they move on to another law firm, their lack of professional/ practical experience follow them attracting labels like "non-performing asset", "liability" and being subjected to similar horrors and ridicule all over again.
Unlike other professions, law firms don't have a real HR department, a proper feedback system or training accountability which makes it very easy for people of a certain seniority to get away with anything because they know at the end of the day they will just say that the junior is bad at their job and avoid training them. Not like there's an HR department to hold them accountable and none of the members of the management will bother because they have probably done the same thing.
Don't like a junior's existence and want to make them quit? Just say non-performing asset and stop giving them work. A client or a friend wants their relative to get a job in your team- fire an existing junior with no contacts to accommodate this new junior by citing non-performance. Did a junior disagree with you, a senior or a partner on something? Say the junior is a non-performing asset, has bad attitude and force them to quit. Want to promote that one junior who sucks up to the partner/ senior over another who prefers to just work quietly and go home? Don't promote them by citing poor performance and lack of leadership. Don't want to pay the bonus amount promised? Don't say anything the whole year but on the week before the bonus payment just say that their performance wasn't upto the mark and pay them peanuts. Not doing enough business and need to reduce your team size without letting the world know you don't have enough business? Cite poor performance of associates and fire them. That's how easy it is.
But ofcourse these are private entities who are not answerable to anybody. Law students join these firms voluntarily knowing about their horrible work culture. But the least one can do is acknowledge that these things are more likely to happen to a junior and not go out of your way to protect the seniors and partners by blaming the junior. If it didn't happen to you and a team has been nice to you then don't just assume that it didn't happen to another junior. These seniors and partners have enough mechanism to protect themselves without you going out of your way to take their side. Partners at that level have nothing to lose professionally or personally but the junior can easily lose a lot.
Over a reasonable career span, is there a person who has not committed a mistake or not pulled up by their seniors? It is not possible. But I fear for the younger generation, who seem too sensitive / delicate to handle any kind of feedback by seniors? What should seniors do if an associate is not performing well - mollycoddle? Or not give feedback because the trigger-happy junior will leak it on social media?
Younger lawyers sometimes fail to appreciate that real world consequences depend on their action / inactions - but do not always demonstrate the maturity to accept feedback and improve themselves. Why - coz some post on L.I. could be a good way to create ruckus? Ridiculous.
HS teams is one of the largest in the firm and have a great practice. No one is saying that it is going to be easy working in a law firm - but when has anything worthwhile been easy? You want easy - find a different profession. Things are going to be demanding here!
Rather people should focus on improving themselves, which will necessarily involve feedback from seniors. Writing a post on LI is not courage - being open to feedback and improving yourself is.
Regards,
Regulus
I've also heard positive stories about the team at this tier I law firm. They've provided opportunities to many individuals who have not only grown professionally but also as individuals. The collaborative environment and mentorship have been instrumental in shaping successful careers, both within and outside the firm. It's worth mentioning that every workplace has its challenges, and it's crucial to maintain a balanced perspective. While we discuss the concerns raised by this person, let's also acknowledge the many achievements and supportive aspects of the team that have contributed to the success of so many.
Regarding the allegations made by this A0, it's essential to approach such claims with a balanced view. Allegations in a high-pressure work environment can sometimes be highly exaggerated or not entirely reflective of the team's conduct. It's essential to encourage transparency and dialogue to address these concerns properly. While some issues may exist, we should be cautious about jumping to conclusions without a complete understanding of the situation.
I genuinely hope that A0 learns from this experience, whether it was a genuine cry for help or a reaction to anticipated challenges. Ultimately, the legal profession is demanding, and it's crucial for individuals to find the right fit for their skills and temperament. Let's support one another in navigating these challenges and wish him the best in his future endeavors.
This email alleging unprofessionalism is really laudable, and mind it that these comments of unprofessionalism are coming from an associate who does not even know what professionalism means and who has been jumping boats every 6 months.
It is also true that such mindless comments are coming from associates who are part of the mutual admiration club, and who have either become disinterested in work or have been given notice to look for other jobs. It is very easy for fence sitters to make malicious comments just for the sake of having fun. I have personally seen this guy being absent from client meetings since he had an urge to smoke.
The people who are applauding the guts of this associate and treating this as revolutionary step, must hire this guy, and get ready for the next viral story….
Every associate in the team is equally treated with dignity and given exposure to handle things on their own. ▮▮▮
In AZB, ▮▮▮
The story ▮▮▮ properly screenplayed ▮▮▮ to malign the RE team of the Firm. Its easy to point fingers without knowing the whole story.
I have worked with few partners and still doing doing on regular basis. As a member of the community, I would like to share my thoughts and experiences; Highly Professional and and goal oriented partners and teams. Lets have sw
FYI, your boss was looking for you while you went out for commercial break and hooked on to LI.
https://www.barandbench.com/news/associate-from-top-law-firm-resigns-citing-stress-by-seniors
"The second objection was that the Indian entities in India would lose their hold over young lawyers as once the foreign lawyers and firms enter the Indian market, they will emerge as the first choice for internship and jobs considering their pro-employee policies, pay, work environment and professionalism."
https://sundayguardianlive.com/news/after-bar-council-nod-to-foreign-lawyers-india-uk-closer-to-signing-fta
our youngsters should be taught to lead, have Indian firms go for global presence.
take this leaf from Indian start-ups and unicorns.
time to change the rotten DNA.
Kian: "Gimme a sec..."
THE NEXT MORNING:
AZB owners (after switching on their computers and cellphones): "MAADARCH...."
He was told that the work culture was intense? Why does every work culture need to be laid back? Ambition is not an evil thing and some people do want to work harder and be better than others- those people end up doing good things for the world. Maybe the firm life is not for you- but on the face of it that doesnt make the culture toxic. That rubberband analogy is essentially the senior telling the kid- hey, buck up, dont let the pressure get to you- figure out how you can be better everyday, resilience is an important quality. Why is that a bad thing? thats one of those things you learn about life generally no?
"We'll treat you the way we were treated"- they clearly dont think they were abused- they think it contributes to a productive work culture that they personally find rewarding. If theyre sitting on their fat asses and making you work more than them- thats something - but thats not even alleged. In fact its essentially telling the employe "we arent targetting you specifically- youre not some scapegoat, everyone goes through this- toughen up". He was asked to send in work on time? Shock Horror. He was threatened with a firing if he missed an important deliverable? Yeah, youre in a service profession. If you cant be of service to your clients what do you expect?
Maybe they could have been more considerate if the guys mom was in the hospital- but also why are you leaving things till the very last minute so you taking a day off disrupts the entire organisation? Doesnt everyone try to stay a day or two ahead on their work just to account for this stuff? I had an emergency first year when I was working, couldnt go into work for a few days- my boss was rightly annoyed at what seemed like flaky behavior for him. I had a conversation, kept his expectations in check and was honest with him about what happened. When he saw a few months later that that was not me being lazy or lying- and that it was genuinely a one off thing- he softened and continued to mentor me and help with my career. My bet is that this is not the first time this guy has flaked on something and then had an excuse.
Honestly law firm work isnt exactly brain surgery- my friends are partners and they tell me that as associates they mostly did the same things day after day except for an interesting deal here and there. just stay on top of your work and dont leave things till last minute and communicate your needs.
What is the alleged humiliation? Just telling him his work is not good enough and he is not meeting standards? That CANNOT be humiliation. You cannot go into a work place and expect everyone to fall in love with you and not evaluate your work fairly. Its part of working to have your supervisors tell you how youre doing- take some feedback. No one is perfect, and early career folks have a lot to learn- set aside your ego.
He said hes demotivated because of the criticism? I mean sorry, but thats on you mate. Be an adult, understand criticism is part of any job, find out how you can do better and execute. You cannot put other people and their approval in charge of your professional success. No one will sing your praises hoping you do better. When youre not honest with your juniors about their flaws they dont think that theres anything they need to fix.
To write a company wide email instead of addressing the stressful stuff with your superiors in a collegial manner? And then to leak it to the internet? This guy has shown remarkable immaturity. I wouldnt hire him again unless he was very remorseful and took some responsibility for his part in all this.
I think many people are projecting their negative experiences and assuming a bunch of bad stuff happened that the complaint doesnt even allege. These all seem pretty mild allegations and I wouldnt quit over any of this. Id try and figure out what I should do better or if this is a good fit for me.
I dont think genz is more sensitive to injustice. How many of them are worried about labour conditions for people that arent them? I think genz is sensitive to criticism. The two arent the same thing at all. most of this stuff isnt toxic or abusive- and that concept creep does real harm to people who suffer workplace discrimination and abuse on the basis of immutable characteristics. If youre being paid tons of money to do work- you better know that the people paying you will expect your work to be good.
Any work place, any form of bullying is Not Okay. There is a reason, work ethics and professional conduct has been set up. Use the appropriate legitimate redressal mechanisms to sort out typical or even irregular employee issues or matters, (even if the employee comes under the scope of a "domestic house-help"). Any form of verbal, physical or mental harassment meant to demean a human being, just because they are your employee is simply Not Okay.
Leaving a toxic workplace is an act of bravery and not of defeat.
Why not to have some dignity and leave with respect. Why disrespect first and then apologies ?
@kianganz, the comment structure is confusing! I don't know which comment is a reply to some other comment or if it is a comment on the main topic. I think numbering/indexing of the comments will be nice! Also, maybe increase the width of these comment boxes?
I am glad that they didnt select me now. At a much better and healthier place now.
It is high time the legal field starts treating its employees with basic human dignity.