One thing which I think finally is happening is the Masters education in India is slowly (and ineptly) to some extent, getting some meat. I mean all independent India's new institutions had undergrad as their focus and their masters was neglected, underfunded and not really up to the mark.

But, slowly, the Masters and PhD side is picking up. People are doing MTech, PhD from these colleges. And the market too is accepting the Masters from IITs as, if not equivalent, but, better than other Masters' degrees.

So, it is a good thing. Hopefully, the Masters/PG courses will improve in the next 20y and then finally, our PhD programmes and research will shoot up.

JLN. Thanks bro! It took 75y+ to see your dreams come to fruition.

Protect law and legal education? As in become guardians of it? I think NLUs should first, at least try becoming Institute of National Importance. A good way and comparatively easy way to influence the govt. would be to reach the top echelons of power by cracking the UPSC CSE exam. More NLU lawyer bureaucrats, more govt. ministers influenced by their advice.

This might, in turn, increase the funding of NLS too. (NLS has a funding of Rs. 20 crore). Link - https://www.nls.ac.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/NLSIU_2018-19_Financial-Statement.pdf

So, influence the netas.

We keep them at bay. We don't include them in most of the things. We will never give position of responsibility to them in any student run committee. Though our VC will push us to give them positions and include them, they cannot get it due to technicalities involved. For e.g., to be a convenor of any society you need 4 years of experience, and we don't appoint anyone as convenor in their final year. LLB peeps will have at best 2 years of experience.

We have created a tactic agreement among ourselves (5 year UG course) to shun them off diplomatically and never let them feel the same. Saanp bhi kar jaayega, aur laathi bhi nhi tutegi.

Regarding placement, our college can't even place people from 5 year batch properly, 3 year is a distant dream.

Moreover, most of these 3 year chaps are stupid at core, they have nothing in their academic life and have pathetic inter-personal skills, so they themselves can't survive the competition in placements from 5 year UG course.

- A final year NLUOite.

Ek important chiz sabhi log gaur kare. No one, literally no one ever talks about the NLU Odisha 3y LLB programme on LI. Saari ladai NLS 3y LLB ke paksh-vipaksh me hai. Abe usko bhi gaali do kam se kam. Aisa kyun hai ki sirf ek ko gaali de rahe hai sab? Kaha hai NLU O BALLB wale.

Kahi yeh equality & equity ke difference ka example toh nahi?

Would it be possible to just stop all this nonsense? Contrary to popular opinion, no one important is reading whatever lies everyone is writing about everyone else in the hopes of being the one that comes out on top. I won't specify my program for fear of more trolling from both sides but the vast majority of both batches don't give a shit. Please get a life, get a start on your submissions or studying for the exams. You are collectively contributing to the college looking like a joke. Grow up everyone (regardless of age)

Ah yes, the illustrious BALLB who follow a textbook model of ADR-publications-moot-debate. A recruiter can switch your names out for others in your cohort on a CV and nothing will change except the numbers. Maybe one of you has a 5.5 vs a 6 or 6 publications instead of 2 or have been semi-finalist at some obscurely named moot for a field of law with no practical value to any Indian law firm and one has not. Barring some exceptions, why would anyone pick one of you assembly line models over someone at least a tiny bit interesting?

You know what possibly might have more value more than a moot, ADR or publications which is ubiquitous among law students and is because there's no other real way to meaningfully differentiate you from one another? Where someone might have worked, their publications in other fields, projects they've worked on, qualifications they've attained. Most of you don't know any of this, which is fine but respect is mutual and shouldn't be conditional on one metric of 'performance'. If your response is none of that matters, then maybe that's why the LLB program is succeeding.

Also there are a handful of admittedly talented students in your cohort but don't act as if the batch as a whole is something to write home about.

Very well said. NLUs should protect law and legal education. Otherwise it won't be long enough that IIT, IIMs will overtake is even in law. DU already has a 5 year. Imagine JNU jumping in as well. That would kill us. We need to band together and give respect to each other. Sure it's debatable who is more superior but at the end of the day we all will be alumnis and we will represent the university whether ug, pg or PhD.

As for the merits, it's really not a fair comparison. BA(LLB) batch is larger, and has done more law oriented things. I'm not sure how the LLB(H) batch can respond to objective statistics.

Fact 1 - The BALLB batch has done far better than LLB(H) - see Vis moots, DM Harish, Tankha, KCL HSF etc from 2023.

Fact 2 - The BALLB batch has done far better at ADR competitions. Both university rounds and in terms of actual competitions. I really hope I don't need to list them, it should be fairly apparent to both batches.

Fact 3 - As for debates, it's more or less neck and neck, with perhaps the LLB(H) having an edge due to their admittedly strong debate culture.

Fact 4 - As for publications, it is not even close. The BALLB batch has published in Oxford and Columbia journals, regularly write at ICLP, Proof of Guilt, IndiaCorpLaw etc.

Fact 5 - As for internal competitions (moots, debates, adr, journal ranks) the BALLB batch has done far better than LLB(H). It's not a fair comparison though, due to the former being more familiar with the culture + better senior support.

Anyway, the point is not to belittle either batch. The LLB(H) comes with a very strong advantage in social sciences + admin support; no point in claiming superiority when the metrics are skewed.

Precisely. Personally, I have no interest in becoming a corporate slave. What puzzles me however is the sheer number of mature individuals in the LLB batch who engage in chest thumping their in their quest to become slaves. I seriously hope that they retain their sanity in future. But with the active push by the Supreme Leader to make his brainchild a success, I don't think work life balance would be in the scheme of things for the LL.Bs. 🥲🥲

Next 5-6 years. It won't even matter whether you're from B.A LL.B, LL.B, LL.M or PhD. What will stand out is the institution's name. When media & public will know your accolades they will refer to you as an NLSIU alumni. Now whether you uphold or smear that name is upto your capabilities. To have a civil war amongst yourselves is a shame on the hardwork of the alumni thag has come before you. Tomorrow the university will grow and will probably include Tech, MBBS and MBA as well, since the central government is hell bent on making universities interdisciplinary. Case in point IITs and IIMs starting law courses. So the real fight isn't within. It's with the other universities that are not even law Universities in the first place. If NLUs need to make a name for themselves in the general public, especially with a view to be a central university or of eminence, we have to rise up and above all this filth that is going on within campus. No one deserves respect, it has to be earned. Just an entrance and few exams don't justify your respect. What you do post graduation is what makes or breaks the universities name. Hope everyone contributes to the name of NLS, otherwise it won't take long for it to be done and dusted.

What I meant was most people who could have given CLAT and performed well, did not even try for CLAT. For most, our ambition was IIT and Engineering or Medical. Why do you presume that people cracking CLAT are the only ones whose grammar and logical reasoning or anything is good? A lot of toppers never gave another look at CLAT.

You did not compete with the best of the best in India. You competed with okay people. The best of the best competed for IIT, Medical. And yes, most were good in Social Science and English too. It is just that they concentrated on PCM. Do you find any McKinsey, Bain, BCG consultant lacking in speaking/articulation skills? No right? So, they could have blown these CLAT toppers out.

But, they never tried and never wanted to. Par yeh chota sa humility samjh me aae tab toh.

Open challenge to anyone on this thread. CLAT pass out, NLSAT passout. Any type of pass out. Crack UPSC CSE and get an under 250 rank.

Come back here, and say I have done it, now apologise. I will apologize. UPSC CSE is the only exam where the best of IIT, Humanities, Medical, or any field come and try. And it is a humanities based exam, so that should be the only benchmark of "sharp mind."

Also, do search about how many Engineer crack UPSC CSE and how many NLU grads crack it. The DU lawyers are not exactly NLU grads. Specfically how many NLU grads are there in the final list and how many Engineers are there. Around 60% are Engineers.

Guys, what I am trying to say, is get out of this CLAT/LAW and I am superior bubble. Anyway, waiting to give my apology. Tick Tick. All the Best! It is not impossible, just difficult.

Yeah that too from the 2026 Ballb batch- AMS cited one of our batchmates in the marriage equality case.. Do we not know how hard the admin is pushing to inflate your GPAs, and other things. But still we will smoke you. Take the example of any college, like JGLS, where LLB and Ballb co-exist. Even there placements in BALLB far exceed LLB's placements. Once Sudhir is gone, and he will have to leave soon, there you guys will experience what happens when spoon feeding stops. Arrogant aholes

If you needed 16hrs/day to crack CLAT, thank India, for having CLAT and not forcing you into the IIT JEE advance race. Or now, in the UPSC CSE/UPPCS race.

Go and crack UPSC CSE and get under 250 rank (to get IAS/IPS/IFS in Gen) if you think you have the "humanities + top legal sharp brain." Come back here and I will apologize.

Leave UPSC CSE, crack UPPCS and become DSP from General category and I will bow to your legal prowess.

Thanks. Don't worry, I have failed 100 times in my life to know, that failure is Okay. And acceptance of one imperfection is the first step. I will accept your superiority. And apologise here.

LLB(H) program will survive the test of time at NLS just as it has all over the country, US etc.

These kids have zero perspective on life. They think one floozy exam like CLAT gives them the ticket to brag town next to snob square for the rest of their lives.

LLB(H) will soon stand on its own merits as soon as the first few batches pass out and make a spectacular name for themselves. It’s just a matter of few years.

All this talk about Abishek Manu Singhvi, it really doesn't matter. Both batches have to co-exist in the end.

For all the LLL(H) students out here mocking, please note, while none of us have interned there, one of our students has legitimately been cited by Manu Singhvi in the Marriage Equality decision (BA LLB batch).

Respect where respect is due eh?

I literally know of someone with a UG in music doing BSc Data Science from IIT Madras. The education space is not as linear as it used to be buddy. Things are changing fast. There are 60 year olds doing CA course. 50 year old housewives learning how to code. What world are you living in? Law is not anyone’s jagir. Anyone can do law from anywhere they want to.

And no matter what course from which NLU you’ve done in your undergraduate, it wouldn’t matter years from now if you don’t upskill and reskill. Your problem is your own inability to differentiate yourself in the job market. Not a group of llb students. Think different. Make your cv stand out.

Also the number of people passing out from 12th wanting to do a graduation will obviously always be higher than number of degree holders wanting to pursue a graduate level course. CLAT vs NLSAT comparison on the basis of number of people appearing, doesn’t make sense by any stretch of imagination.

A 100m race in which there are 100 participants, with average capabilities, vs a 100m race in which there are 10 participants with Usain Bolt level capabilities; which one would be considered “difficult”?

Number of participants doesn’t make an exam in itself easy or difficult. The correct term to use for CLAT is not “difficult” but low selection percentage. But if you just compare the two papers by themselves (CLAT vs NLSAT) without considering how many people appear for them, NLSAT is more difficult. It even has a subjective section. The competition is among graduates, some even from Stephen’s, SRCC etc. The skills required are much higher.

A 100m race where there are 100 participants of average capabilities, vs a 100m race where there are 10 participants, but all 10 are Usain Bolt level runners - which race would be considered more “difficult”?

More number of participants doesn’t make a competition in itself difficult; the correct term would be “low selection percentage”

Needlessly condescending and patronizing. I don't intend to begin with cock measuring here, but let me assure you - any particular batch of '26 BALLB ("kiddo") can smoke most of your batchmates. I have great respect for many LLB(H) students, but you'd be well advised to have some regard for batch of '26 - who within their III year have done a fair bit. I don't see LLB(H) students outperforming BALLB students at any activity, barring debating.

Have some basic respect, it'll go a long way.

Posting this rather well stated message from another thread here, because of its extremely relevant to this discussion. LLB(H) batch needs be less cocky about some minor internships, and the BALLB batch needs to see the LLB(H) as equal peers. This cockmeasuring benefits no one.

This is a rather sad state of affairs for NLSIU in general. By way of introduction, I'm a student of the B.A. LLB cohort, my RCC rank is top 10, and I've done my share of moots, ADR, and publications (the relevance of the seemingly self aggrandizing comments will be clear as you read the post). While LegallyIndia is not the best place to have this discussion, in the absence of any meaningful dialogue outside it, perhaps this is the best we have. Now, there are some things I wish to set out, in the capacity above:

1. Yes, the 3 year LLB program is pushed for by the admin, and no, there is nothing wrong with it. It's a new program, it's budding, how is it wrong for the admin to try and provide it a nudge? We can't be so competitive, they are legitimately our peers. While it can be a bit frustrating to see it this way, it's important to be mindful of this program, and see them as our peers rather than competitors who will take our jobs away. They bring a lot of diversity, and particularly, skills in the social science on the table, and we all stand to benefit from it, provided we collaborate and engage, rather than ranting about minor things that the admin may have done.

2. As far as extra-curriculars go, it is true, the 3 year LLB program has 'underperformed' till now. If you look at the intra-university moot and journal results, this becomes very evident, with barely 1-2 students from those programs making it to the top 30. 3-4 BA-LLB (Kartik Kalra, Manhar Bansal, Priyansh Dixit, Sukarm Sharma) students probably have more publications than the entire LLB (Hons.) combined. Similarly, all of the top moots are taken by BA.LLB students. However, this is not due to any superiority on the part of us B.A.LL.B students. It's simply because we are young, and more invested in this process. For a person who has already completed their degree, and lived a large chunk of their college life, these things seem infinitely less valuable - and perhaps reasonably so. In that light, it is difficult to draw comparisons, and such comparisons benefit no one.

3. There are some tensions, naturally, between the two cohorts. I do think both B.A.LLB (seeing the 3 year LLB program as outsiders) and LLB Hons. (seeing the 3 year LLB program as pubescent teenagers) are partially to blame. This can be resolved through some mutual respect, which frankly does not seem likely presently, for whatever reasons

Ha, CLAT walo gaali do NLSAT ko.

IIT ke 4 lakh+ applicant se reject hue hum.

Even Bangalore COMEDK ke 1 lakh+ applicant se reject hue hum.

CAT 99.6 pe IIM BLACKI se reject hue hum.

UPSC CSE ke 10 lakh applicant se reject hue hum.

Par hume na samjh hai, na padhne ki chah hai. Bas aap aur aapke 60k CLAT aspirants hi legal reasoning ke khiladi hai. If you go to St. Michael's Patna, their class 11th entrance has 10-15k aspirants for PCM. (Even though it is not that great a school).

I want to write NLSAT because I want to study law. That's it. No one in real world cares about NLS or NLUs. For most of India, IIT>IIM>ISB is the pecking order. The world respects Indian Engineering because of the tenacity of the IIT students.

Khair, ladiye.. Enjoy.

We have gotten more June internships than the BALLB batch. Maybe their RCC could do their job instead of fighting social media battles. Their RCC is legit scared of us after finsec and S&R results. I don't even think their class knows about the latter. Overconfidence is a vice, guys ;)

I'm from the LLB batch. We have secured 3 SnR internships for June while the BALLB batch which also sent applications with their top rankers (2, 3 etc) got ZERO internships from the same firm for June. They prefered us over them. Their RCC is too scared to tell them this. Ignorance is a bliss, I suppose.

Here we have a bunch of privileged failures from DU who got into NLS through an opaque exam. entitled Jindal rejects are not the solution to the legal profession in India. You lack diversity, are cash cows for the college, and are fed the best resources at NLS just cause you're the new product. Enjoy it while it lasts, you can beg for jobs but failures will remain failures.

What kind of shitty argument is that. The size and quality of the sample matters. Quoting a person itself is a weak argument, on top of that you are quoting just "one." Equivalent of saying: "Oh, look, our product is so great because X said so." Why does it matter what X said?

What are you playing to the galleries for? Lmao, the MPP and LLM students have reviled you twits( cuz you've excluded them from literally everything possible) for a long time. You just wanted some program that's non threatening to you jobs wise and would continue to feed into your massive ego about being god's greatest gift to the Harvard of the East. Wake up and smell the coffee. Your shit stinks just like the rest of ours.

Now you know why students from BALLB hate them. They act like they know the world and have experienced everything when they lack the very basics of reasoning. It's fine if someone lacks knowledge or reasoning skills but they shouldn't have this attitude. It is this attitude that secludes them from the rest of the college.

We have had MPP students on this campus for a very long time and the BALLB students never had a problem with them but LLB students are kind of unbearable.

Goes on to show that CLAT is not just about English and fancy schools. Maybe my parents couldn't afford a fancy English medium school? Your elitist background won't be able to fathom that cuz sitting and working hard 16hrs/day for CLAT wasn't something that is believable for you.

Yes, I did Crack CLAT and had a rank under 50. Something, which you won't be able to Crack given your legal reasoning.

Lmao, so folks are supposed to write full research papers here, is it? A sample will be of someone with some standing, right? AMS is arguably the most famous Senior Adv in the country right now and the second article was written by a "5 year BALLB NLS" grad who's bemoaning the state of NLU's.

The rest, let's see after 10 odd years (not like Chatur) but where the Batch of '25 - LLB and BALLB will be. Adios till then. Keep writing bogus pieces and whining about everything under the sun about the 3 year program till then over here :*

You should have done some background research that BALLB students usually do. Students had to go to exam centres and write clat 2020. It wasn't an exam that you could attempt from home so I don't really understand the reference to "Online CLAT".

As for people getting caught for plagiarism, you need to consider the fact that everything went online and it was difficult to make them understand how plagiarism works or how a researcg paper is written. So they did have a huge disadvantage at the start, when people need help the most.

That batch is anyway considered as a poor batch by NLS standard. The fact that you guys are struggling to keep up with them really shows your incompetence.

Not the person you were responding to but they were talking about how AMS prefers 5 year law students over 3 year and I know multiple people who have interned under him from the 5 year LLB course including one person from Nalsar. (Do some basic LinkedIn research) What I did not understand is why you wanted to restrict it to NLS only and not to 5year LLBs as a whole? In any case, internships and juniors in the chambers of senior adv are based purely on contacts. It has nothing to do with University.

If NLSAT is bringing in people who lack basic legal reasoning abilities then it's not a good news really🥲

Not OC, but I know several NLU students who have interned with AMS at least. Shakti Vardhan and Mihir Mathur from NLUJ, Wamic Wasim from RGNUL, Kabir Dev from NLS, Aujaswi Maken and Madhav Khosla from NUJS. People like Lzafeer Ahmad from NLUJ, Moksha Bhat and Thomas Kuruvilla from NUJS had even gone ahead to become his juniors eventually.

Nonsense. That is because traditionally law has been seen as a "humanities" degree, and hence BA-LLB is more popular with those having a humanities background in Class 12. With the way law discipline itself is changing, moving forward it will be BBA-LLB and BSc-LLB. State NLUs are not the bellwether for law education. There are national universities that don't offer BA-LLB anymore. The problem is that state NLUs are so tightly connected with BA-LLB, that not offering that option is too disruptive to the traditional approach that NLUs are not willing to take.

Nonsense. With that logic the NLUs with BBA LLB courses like GNLU and NLUJ should be having much better reputations for student outcomes than the BA LLB courses at the tier-1s like NLS, NLUD, etc. They don't. That's your personal preference, not the whole "industry's".

Yes, the privilege can only be enjoyed by the batch that cleared the online CLAT and has the most insufferable and pompous jokers around. No wonder your insecurities are sky-high. Get caught out on en masse plagiarism as soon as college goes offline to hounding out professors, writing homophobic slurs on chalkboards is emblematic of your batch and their overall juvenile paranoias.

Getting to enjoy the privilege of NLS while not working hard enough to deserve it is why everyone hates your batch. To get into BALLB, students go through a rigorous CLAT exam which is attempted by more than 70k-80k students and only top 60 make it to NLS. Only after putting in such hardwork do we get to experience the NLS brand. You guys, on the other hand, get it despite not putting in a fraction of efforts we have done. How many people even attempted NLSAT LLB? And to add to it, the admin is literally spoon feeding your batch to ensure you get internships, placements and get into committees. And still you have the guts to live in your world of superiority complex where you constantly shit on BALLB kids. If you're so damn smart, why are you not doing any good in any intra college competition like Moots? In fact, as far as I can remember, your batch literally complained during University Moot Rounds that the problem related to Arbitration Law was way too complex. Even the most mediocre of guys from your batch are getting internships in T1 firms thanks to the admin.

But NLS was conceptualized to pioneer the BALLB course and its students have done tremendously well. I'm sure you won't be able to continue banking on the NLS brand which exists due to the very BALLB students that you constantly shit on.

It's okay, Uncle. We understand that you are hurting. Two glaring problems with your arguments though.

1. Why don't you ask AMS to give you jobs and internships? Go on, give it a shot. You'll find that he too favours us over you in his chambers. These dialogues are just for show.

2. With all those issues with NLUs, you still ended up in one? How ironical.

To all the salty and petulant 5 year LLB brats fulminating over the inception of a three year LLB program in NLS. Don't think we don't see the daily rants by idle idiots ranging from purported inflations in internships to having "bought seats" and what not.

Sample this- https://www.barandbench.com/news/legal-education-reform-dr-abhishek-manu-singhvi-14-point-agenda "Strengthen 3-year LL.B programmeWhile there have been talks about scrapping the 3-year LL.B course, Dr. Singhvi said that the 3-year course should be strengthened.

> “In our starry-eyed view of five year courses, we must not forget to strengthen the LL.B 3- year program. On par with the JD or Juris Doctor program of American and Canadian Law Schools, the Indian LL.B 3-year programme must be made more rigorous and full-time. NLUs must consider starting a 3-year LL.B degree on their campuses and open their doors to the graduates of the best degree colleges in India and abroad to spend 3 years on their campuses”, he said."

>

> Also - https://www.barandbench.com/columns/building-windmills

> - "Finally, and perhaps most controversially, we have to recognize that the NLUs are not the solution. The NLUs have shown us what is possible when a few, determined people do their part, but in the best of times, they form a minute portion of the institutes imparting legal education. Far from becoming beacons of light as was hoped, they have instead become islands of elitism in a vast ocean. Similar to the criticism aimed at the Indian services IT industry, our NLUs are often considered to be places from which lawyers come out who would have done well anyway. Whether because of English proficiency or the economic background of their parents leaving the vast hinterland unaffected. If a portion of the funds being allocated to the formation of new NLUs and imparting quality education could be allocated to existing CLEs, then I suspect the returns for us as a nation will be much higher."