Fellow Litigators of LI, please post your salary , city , PQE and rant below.
Feel free to post shamelessly about how litigations is frustrating , challenging , rewarding , stimulating , satisfying or exhausting - as per your own experience. Go ahead !
(PS :- People working in Disputes Team of Law Firm and not handling their own matters are kindly requested to excuse themselves from this thread)
PQE 1.5. Tier 2 city. Started with no salary. Changed office and got 12,500. After 6 months made it to 20k. Currently alongside office work, have some personal matters. Making around 40-45k p.m. average.
This journey is very very tiring and lonely. Especially if you are living alone. But seems light is just there at the end of the tunnel.
Looking forward to reading experiences of other litigators.
So after two years you're still making less than what a fresher at a Tier 2 or 3 firm would? Why didn't you ever just consider joining a corporate law firm?
If you are genuinely asking this question and not trolling, these are the reasons,
- Earning curve is really good in litigation, even though you start from law. Although not necessary for every litigator but then same is the case with a corp lawyer (especially one not in a tier one). And the efforts you put in are the same.
- Some people don't have very easy access to these firms, and the ones they do have access to pay very little with no growth opportunities.
- Some people would rather work for themselves from the beginning that grinding for a partner.
There's another point: work satisfaction. A lot of us like what we do, money aside, and just wouldn't get the same level of satisfaction/thrill in a law firm.
Exactly. I worked for a T1 for 2 years and then switched to court litigation (under a senior). In my last 3 years of litigation, I still have not come close to the in hand I got during the first month at the firm. But if you want to litigate long term, salary cant be a concern (atleast at the start). A career in litigation only works if you are willing to take risk, hoping that somewhere in the long term you will get clients. That said, not even considering the top lawyers, what I have seen is that quite a few decent lawyers in Delhi (independent practioners) with 7-8 years of experience make decent money (1-4 lacs a month). So it is really important that you must be passionate about it, if you want to do it.
That may work in Metros. Litigators in other cities dont make much and biggest problem in Litigation is that you wont be able to build your team due to high attrition
Tax litigation in a southern metro. Individual practice with PQE of 8 years - recently independent. I make >200,000 per month and work around 40 hours a week.
Work has been challenging, satisfying and rewarding. I did try my hand at core civil litigation and commercial litigation but didn't find it comfortable there since they are slow, there's too much cut throat competition and undercutting of fees, and too factually heavy which results in more time requirement per matter.
I aim to streamline my work into a four day workweek pattern while maximizing economic returns. The tax advisory practice must be grown but I have been occupied with other things personally to be interested in business development this year. I'm happy.
There's uncertainty and anxiety about what may happen three months down the line but that's something every legal professional undergoes. The nagging worry doesn't vanish - we merely get better at ignoring it.
I dont want to work for more than 25 hours a week and I think with those hours, I'll be able to make >300,000 the next month. I have my own clientbook, answerable to no one, extremely low stress, no targets, no office politics, and a lot of time at hand. The cost of living is low, I love to explore and do the little things of life, and I love the work that I do. Further, I'm really good at what I do and have interacted with a lot of law firm partners (Tier-1, 2 & Big 4) both in court and also as an external counsel. In tax, most of them are really shallow and but are such insecure and whiny little fellows. I wouldn't want to work with any of them day in and out irrespective of how much ever I get paid.
Yes. If and when I want to make more, I can simply take up more assignments and get the requisite money. There is a dearth of talent in my practice area and it's always on demand. But, for now, I would like to enjoy my time on this blue rock. God has been very kind and I make much more than my monthly expense. That's sufficient for me.
Hi. Need your suggestions/advise. It seems you have cracked the code of getting clients. I being at 1.5 PQE how do I take it forward like now I am thorough with drafting, research and that initial hesitation to appear before courts is all gone. With regards to knowledge of law, i can say that I have average basic understanding of civil and commercial laws. How do I scale up from 40-45k pm to 1L in the next 1.5 years. Thanks
This may be a very personal opinion, but I have found a happy place because of a confluence of factors: I do both DT & IDT - the entire gamut of taxes - therefore there is enough flow of cases. This is a practice area which is vast, complex and very low headcount of specialized practitioners. This is also a field which is not litigation averse - everyone enthusiastically disputes a demand. In essence, performance and specialization in a niche domain was my key. There are also hardly any Tier-1 firms or partners who are core tax litigators. The other specialized tax firms that are there (DMD, Vaish, ELP, Dhruva, etc) have no significant presence in the South. I'm not sure if this would work in commercial or criminal law.
I am genuinely surprised by your take on tax practice. I picked tax under the misconception that it pays well. Let's be honest, corp pays more money. While tax offers a possibility to set up shop independently, the practice area is really crowded. There's way too many competent CAs and lawyers who regularly keep themselves updated. The fees charged for matters are not steep.
Man, what should I say. I work at a T1 firm and have been wanting to shift to litigation. Looking at the numbers my friends make in litigation is what scares me. Sure, the numbers may outshine the paycheck I will draw after 10 years into my law firm career but there is no surety for that. I look at people who graduated in 2017 or 2016 to get an idea of what an above-average person would expect from litigation 6 - 7 years down the line and the situation does not look promising.
It is just a business where the consumers are reluctant to use the services (i.e., go to court). Above that, your legal skills are 20% of what will get you clients, and in my opinion, these skills are not that hard to master so after 2 years into an averagely focussed career, everyone operates on a level playing field in terms of legal skills.
While you may make it big and earn more from one day's worth of hearing what a PA earns in a month, the likelihood of the same is below 1%. I hope all my brothers in litigation shine and make it big one day to make me regret saying things I am writing here.
:( True ''While you may make it big and earn more from one day's worth of hearing what a PA earns in a month, the likelihood of the same is below 1%. ''
Left a Tier 1 law firm in 2018 to move a litigation chamber. Got paid 20K for the first 6 months which increased to 30K after 6 months. Left after 1.5 years to join another chamber where I got paid 40K which increased to 50K after 1 years. In 2021, joined a senior advocate, got paid 80K for the first 5 months. Thereafter, it was increased to 1.3L and has remained the same since then.
For the past 2-3 months, god has been kind and I have been getting some independent drafting work from which I earn an additional 50K to 1L per month.
The journey has not been easy as have to work hard to deliver results. My bosses have mostly been very good and supportive but I have seen people come and go so not that it was easy to impress bosses without doing good work.
I still have some hesitation in appearing before Courts as have not gotten many opportunities to argue. There is a lot of uncertainty but trying my best to work hard and achieve something. Having supportive parents and partner has helped.
My current senior is a senior advocate with a very big heart and very small ego. He expects a lot of work from me and not any kind of work but good quality work. He's intense while work is going on but once it is done, he's one of the chillest persons to be around. Takes you out for drinks and food.
Heart of gold, I would say. Pays his staff and juniors really well. He treats them with a lot of kindness. The only time he shows anger is during the court hearings which is also only if you have not done the requisite work. He forgets about your mistakes also quickly.
This is not a dream senior but an actual senior! Also, I am a first generation advocate so I needed this kind of senior to have someone to aspire to.
Not me but I know a 13 PQE. Have seen his fee book while interning. 1.5-2cr since last couple of years. From talking with him, huge struggle for first few years, didn't cross 10l till 5 years PQE. But now really doing well - while at the same time taking random long breaks of 3-4 months every year for the last several years. Pays juniors 50k monthly but keeps telling people to not litigate. Thorough whacko. But absolutely brilliant so keeps getting briefs despite being erratic in terms of availability.
Tier 1 partners earn more than that and 13 years is more than enough time to reach partner level. What was the incremental benefit of going independent?
Well, 3 to 4 months off every year isnt something a Tier 1 partner can do at this stage, is it? Plus, the exponential growth, if s/he really wants that... if 10 lakhs could become 2 cr in 6-7 years, it seems that the payoff can just skyrocket...
I started with a stipend of 5K from my senior. Over the years, it increased. Now with 7 years of practice, I make around 20 - 25LPA. Nothing is certain for a particular month. It took around 3 - 4 years for me to reach the break-even for my expenses but thereafter the growth pace has been better.
Non - Designate. In my opinion, one must join a chamber where you get drafting and argumentation opportunities. We generally don't get that in a Senior Designate's office. These opportunities are with briefing counsels who are non - designate.
My senior has multidimensional and miscellaneous work. Therefore I too have been doing the same. However, I am personally more inclined towards core civil and commercial litigation.
There seems to be common thread for all. In the first 5 years it's a hand in mouth kind of situation. But then things start to change. I have personally experienced this that though in litigation you start at very low base income but then it multiples into 2x or 3x. Whereas in a job say in a firm or inhouse you get % increments.
In my opinion one doesn't need to be an exceptional lawyer to earn decent in litigation being above average than the crowd also pulls the client.
Everyone in this thread is from a metro city and mostly Delhi. Wow. Can't we earn decent sum in Tier 2 cities, without leaving our parents? (For outsiders)
Feel free to post shamelessly about how litigations is frustrating , challenging , rewarding , stimulating , satisfying or exhausting - as per your own experience. Go ahead !
(PS :- People working in Disputes Team of Law Firm and not handling their own matters are kindly requested to excuse themselves from this thread)
This journey is very very tiring and lonely. Especially if you are living alone. But seems light is just there at the end of the tunnel.
Looking forward to reading experiences of other litigators.
- Earning curve is really good in litigation, even though you start from law. Although not necessary for every litigator but then same is the case with a corp lawyer (especially one not in a tier one). And the efforts you put in are the same.
- Some people don't have very easy access to these firms, and the ones they do have access to pay very little with no growth opportunities.
- Some people would rather work for themselves from the beginning that grinding for a partner.
There's another point: work satisfaction. A lot of us like what we do, money aside, and just wouldn't get the same level of satisfaction/thrill in a law firm.
Work has been challenging, satisfying and rewarding. I did try my hand at core civil litigation and commercial litigation but didn't find it comfortable there since they are slow, there's too much cut throat competition and undercutting of fees, and too factually heavy which results in more time requirement per matter.
I aim to streamline my work into a four day workweek pattern while maximizing economic returns. The tax advisory practice must be grown but I have been occupied with other things personally to be interested in business development this year. I'm happy.
There's uncertainty and anxiety about what may happen three months down the line but that's something every legal professional undergoes. The nagging worry doesn't vanish - we merely get better at ignoring it.
Started with 20k now making 35k + small money from own matters.
It's a cruel professional, some days are good, some are bad but thrill/ upcoming money is all what keeps me going.
It is just a business where the consumers are reluctant to use the services (i.e., go to court). Above that, your legal skills are 20% of what will get you clients, and in my opinion, these skills are not that hard to master so after 2 years into an averagely focussed career, everyone operates on a level playing field in terms of legal skills.
While you may make it big and earn more from one day's worth of hearing what a PA earns in a month, the likelihood of the same is below 1%. I hope all my brothers in litigation shine and make it big one day to make me regret saying things I am writing here.
- Love
''While you may make it big and earn more from one day's worth of hearing what a PA earns in a month, the likelihood of the same is below 1%. ''
Left a Tier 1 law firm in 2018 to move a litigation chamber. Got paid 20K for the first 6 months which increased to 30K after 6 months. Left after 1.5 years to join another chamber where I got paid 40K which increased to 50K after 1 years. In 2021, joined a senior advocate, got paid 80K for the first 5 months. Thereafter, it was increased to 1.3L and has remained the same since then.
For the past 2-3 months, god has been kind and I have been getting some independent drafting work from which I earn an additional 50K to 1L per month.
The journey has not been easy as have to work hard to deliver results. My bosses have mostly been very good and supportive but I have seen people come and go so not that it was easy to impress bosses without doing good work.
I still have some hesitation in appearing before Courts as have not gotten many opportunities to argue. There is a lot of uncertainty but trying my best to work hard and achieve something. Having supportive parents and partner has helped.
Heart of gold, I would say. Pays his staff and juniors really well. He treats them with a lot of kindness. The only time he shows anger is during the court hearings which is also only if you have not done the requisite work. He forgets about your mistakes also quickly.
This is not a dream senior but an actual senior! Also, I am a first generation advocate so I needed this kind of senior to have someone to aspire to.
In my opinion one doesn't need to be an exceptional lawyer to earn decent in litigation being above average than the crowd also pulls the client.