Don't take it the wrong way. I am an Engineer from a good private college (Non IIT/BITS/NIT). I come here sometimes because I like law.
Do not repeat such things in public. Outside the law echo chambers from which you speak, people will start laughing at you. It is not to demean lawyers, but, it is just the truth.
The thing is, to solve even 1 problem of Jee Advance, you need 150Q ka backing. Meaning read theory, then solve 10 Q which are almost highly applied on that theory (so the Questions are also part of the concept building) and finally try to solve the Jee Advance questions. If you score around 50% marks you are in the top 500. Just imagine - the best mind in India cannot solve the whole paper.
So, for every chapter in JEE there are 100-150 page notes which you end up creating having a lot of formulas, and tricks. You need to mug up the theory + these questions even to attempt any one problem. Finally, there are 70+ chapters, so 70*100 = 7000 pages of almost pure data. Complete data with almost 0 logic as all questions in your notes will have some trick, some new thing completely unrelated to the previous question. So, JEE becomes extremely tough.
Compare it to CLAT where you do not specifically need this much note-making to get a correct answer. You might select a wrong answer, but, with practice, you can come to the right answer. Here, - tumhe hawa hi nahi lagega ki what is being asked. There is no gyan that you can derive from the question. You need to know the full chapter + 2-3 allied chapters to even understand what is being asked. So, you become completely, completely blank.
The most intelligent, hard-working people I know got 1000 ranks in IIT JEE advance. Not even under 1000. Their level of dedication, discipline, mugging and making of notes during the 2y was unparalleled. Do not, I repeat, do not be in this bubble that these men and women cannot speak better English, comprehend better, create drafts or contracts or negotiate better than you. They can, they definitely can, but they never wanted to. They could have burst open your arguments, destroyed you in CLAT exam and would have out-competed you in NLUs (if NLUs actually had no state quota and were actual institutes of National importance). More people in India give COMEDK (Karnataka Engineering entrance) than the national level law entrance CLAT. So, simple probability says you have a better chance of cracking CLAT than even a RV college of engineering.
It is good that you selected CLAT and left the uber competition and rat race of Engineering and then MBA (where at 99.89 I have seen boys and girls in IIM Kozhikode (Not even A,B,C or L (just imagine) where every day one thinks, how dumb he/she is and what is being taught & why he/she is here.
It is courageous to say no to this whole IIT JEE science charade. In the end, in this consumerist world and new D2C brands, money-making ability is the final scale of success. And people in law are making money in coherence with their talent in languages. But, to think, that you had a tougher exam than IIT JEE and somehow the top NLU students out-competed IIT/BITS students to get into NLU is pure bull.
Let us take one exam which is almost a level playing field for both and the top IIT/BITS/AIIMS people try for it too - UPSC CSE. It is unpredictable enough for all of us -
-has a good mugging up and factual component (UPSC Prelims),
-has a great writing component where questions keep on getting modified every year (Mains),
-has a creative component (Mains essay),
-has a math component (CSAT),
-has a logical reasoning component (CSAT passages).
See some stats online. 60% of all UPSC CSE cracking bureaucrats are Engineers. Why is that? Now don't give me that - I am happy in my Lawyer job. You can earn in multiples of what you are earning plus you have societal prestige like no other. Also, I think there is only LBSNAA-trained top bureaucrats who have the guts (in their first 5y) to stand up to the MLAs/MPs and even Chief Minister. (Read about Dr. Gautam Goswami who cut the mic of Home Minister Advani in front of 3 lakh crowd in Patna, Bihar). Why are you in some top NLU? Because the best of the best of India did not compete with you. It is plain simple.
Again, this is not in any way trying to demean the legal education fraternity. Lawyers like PM Nehru & Dr Ambedkar were leaders of men. The law gives a structure to society. And we have been a law-abiding society from Chanakya ArthaShatra to Allaudin Khilji's 4 ordinances. Science allows you to question, but, before questioning, you need to study and mug a lot. There is not interpretation or your Point of View in Science which is suffocating to free thinkers. Law is complex in its own way. But, to say CLAT is tougher than IIT JEE or BITSAT is pure crap.
Anyway, you won't understand if you don't want to. And you will give this example, that example. The point in life is, to find our path. If law is your chosen path, so be it. But, at least be humble enough to accept, that maybe, (just maybe), someone else also has the brain to read 200pages/day, write better, argue better, structure better, negotiate better, sell better and find those 'words' whose meanings can be differently interpreted (this gyan I got while studying UPSC CSE polity Vision IAS questions, saale khod khod ke question me words ke meaning ka baal ka khaal nikate hai).
As someone who prepared for both, clat does not even come close to JEE, especially since it's similar to gmat level. At its very core its basic comprehension, i dont understand what this 360 degree approach is or how its even relevant. It is nothing but a vague buzz word. Solving questions in maximum accuracy within a specific time is common to every competitive exam out there. CLAT is hard I agree, but you cannot possibly compare it to the level of competition or preparation required for JEE
That's where you fail. Once you are in a T-2 NLU, your life will become harder than a JEE Advanced Paper. No placement scene, pathetic admin, poor faculties. You will question your everyday in that T-2 NLU.
I am a JEE aspirant and I gave CLAT without preparing any thing , still when i came out , I felt its such an easy exam, even if someone prepare for it for a month while in class 12th, he/she can definitely get the score required for tier-2 NLUs
I mean I totally get you, but it was meant to be a comparative analysis on how one's education has a huge role to play in deciding how he'll perform.
Who am I kidding, I didn't score as much as you did in my first attempt. That's a good rank to start with, if possible avoid these private colleges and get an okayish college to attempt again.
Boarding school kid here . Studied for 2 months for the CLAT exam (dilly-dallied even during those 2 months) . I just took some mock tests and read G.K. PDFs provided by the coaching centre I went to. I didnβt prepare for the Maths section .
Messed up terribly on the day of that reading race (CLAT ) .I was feeling so jittery that I was barely able to read the questions , let alone comprehend them . Plus, my inability to read at a fast pace and my lack of proficiency in Maths made things worse . Left the entire Maths section unattempted . Didnβt know the answers to the G.K. questions as well . The G.K. PDFs that I had read during my prep didnβt help me at all .
Result :AIR 3,XXX π€‘π€‘. Only if the test gauged my knowledge , maybe I could have done well .
Going to a boarding school didnβt help me get through the test. So , itβs a bit of a stretch to say that kids who went to the βbest English medium schools would get a tier 2 at least and that too for studying only two monthsβ.
P.S. - Please overlook my grammatical errors, if any :)
I was countering your claim where you differentiated between government and English medium schools . Itβs a fact that government school kids really face the burden of this paper - but saying that the βbest English medium schools would get a tier 2 at least and that too for studying only two monthsβ is definitely the worst and the most flawed generalisation . And thatβs why the question of international schools pop up - not the question of percentile or percentage or how there can be exceptions.
I see how you might have terrible skills the main idea of any argument(especially in paragraphs) but hey again we are all learning here ;)
So i was a science student in 12th grade with PCMB, appeared for JEE and barely managed to secure 90 percentile.
Appered for NEET, was alloted a government college and then i realised that i had zero passion for medicine, was doing all this because of parental pressure.(solved a good number of sample papers, prepared for it from Aakash coaching classes)
Appeared for CLAT and, got into a T1 NLU on my first attempt, without any tuitions and by solving just two sample papers. (I did have the benifit of being a avid newspaper reader since i was in 5th grade....another thing i was pressured into by parents)
Having appered for all three exams, i would say all of them had their own challenges, CLAT was a bit on the easier side because it didn't exactly require a lot of prep work. I have seen people taking drops of 2-3 years for all the three exams, so at the end of the day it's a matter of your own strengths and weaknesses.
CR is difficult for everyone. Even the best faculty conforms to the principle that one cannot be 100% accurate in CR.
I can figure that you are also not good at CR since your reasoning is somewhat flawed hehe. People from top international schools struggling to score more than 80% doesn't prove my point that "they perform better" wrong; what if students from less equipped schools score even less than that?
What I meant to say is that it's competitively easier for them to ace. It doesn't matter if their accuracy is 10%, if that 10% gets them a good rank, then that's all that matters.
Adding on , it has become in fact difficult for people to get into top 3 just like the top 7 iits - check the selection ratio - getting into the top in any exam (like clat or Neet) is too same difficult
Not a cake walk exactly - I have seen people struggling in the CR section nowadays to score more than 80 percent and that too from top international schools I kid you not - the thing is that exam has become CR oriented now and this skill is not taught in the school curriculum - maybe thatβs where you are right , it has become skill oriented
The thing about CLAT is that it's a skill-based examination whereas JEE is an aptitude-based examination.
Suppose we ask someone from a government school to prepare for CLAT for a whole year and attempt it, chances are that he'll probably fail. But if we ask someone from one of the best English medium schools to prepare for it in two months, he would probably crack a T-2 at least.
But if you ask both of them to study for JEE, chances are that the former would perform better given the extra time. That's because JEE is a purely aptitude-based examination where skill has a negligent role to play.
As someone from a PCM background who has given CLAT thrice, I'd say that for me CLAT came out to be a tougher examination, but that's because I've never really worked on my reading. For a person who has been an avid reader, it might have been a cake walk for him.
The answer is quite simple, it depends on person to person. But yeah, objectively, JEE seems to be much more competitive.
Hey , really appreciate your opinion , but not easy I also think it is - it involves practice and itβs just not good comprehension skills - u need to take a 360 degree approach for solving these questions in maximum accuracy within a specific time as well , adding on its kinda gmat level now
CLAT is not hard lol especially if you've done your education from a decent english medium school, which most clat takers have. Anyone with good comprehension skills and basic knowledge of current affairs can get a decent rank enough for T1 NLUs. People don't start slogging for CLAT the moment they get to eighth grade.
I mean look at the selection ratio - no way they can be put in the same bracket but I hate people claiming that JEE advanced is wayyyyyyy tougher than cracking clat - with the recent competition and pattern change too - itβs probable JEE is quite tougher , but clat is not really that behind . I mean yes if you look at websites and mentors in general - the put JEE in 1st or 2nd in terms of toughness and clat in 5th or 6th- but the subject is way more nuanced - the selection ratio and multiple attempts to get into Top 3 proves it. Well , one thing can be agree that cracking a random NLU is way easier than cracking any IIT .
Do not repeat such things in public. Outside the law echo chambers from which you speak, people will start laughing at you. It is not to demean lawyers, but, it is just the truth.
The thing is, to solve even 1 problem of Jee Advance, you need 150Q ka backing. Meaning read theory, then solve 10 Q which are almost highly applied on that theory (so the Questions are also part of the concept building) and finally try to solve the Jee Advance questions. If you score around 50% marks you are in the top 500. Just imagine - the best mind in India cannot solve the whole paper.
So, for every chapter in JEE there are 100-150 page notes which you end up creating having a lot of formulas, and tricks. You need to mug up the theory + these questions even to attempt any one problem. Finally, there are 70+ chapters, so 70*100 = 7000 pages of almost pure data. Complete data with almost 0 logic as all questions in your notes will have some trick, some new thing completely unrelated to the previous question. So, JEE becomes extremely tough.
Compare it to CLAT where you do not specifically need this much note-making to get a correct answer. You might select a wrong answer, but, with practice, you can come to the right answer. Here, - tumhe hawa hi nahi lagega ki what is being asked. There is no gyan that you can derive from the question. You need to know the full chapter + 2-3 allied chapters to even understand what is being asked. So, you become completely, completely blank.
The most intelligent, hard-working people I know got 1000 ranks in IIT JEE advance. Not even under 1000. Their level of dedication, discipline, mugging and making of notes during the 2y was unparalleled. Do not, I repeat, do not be in this bubble that these men and women cannot speak better English, comprehend better, create drafts or contracts or negotiate better than you. They can, they definitely can, but they never wanted to. They could have burst open your arguments, destroyed you in CLAT exam and would have out-competed you in NLUs (if NLUs actually had no state quota and were actual institutes of National importance). More people in India give COMEDK (Karnataka Engineering entrance) than the national level law entrance CLAT. So, simple probability says you have a better chance of cracking CLAT than even a RV college of engineering.
It is good that you selected CLAT and left the uber competition and rat race of Engineering and then MBA (where at 99.89 I have seen boys and girls in IIM Kozhikode (Not even A,B,C or L (just imagine) where every day one thinks, how dumb he/she is and what is being taught & why he/she is here.
It is courageous to say no to this whole IIT JEE science charade. In the end, in this consumerist world and new D2C brands, money-making ability is the final scale of success. And people in law are making money in coherence with their talent in languages. But, to think, that you had a tougher exam than IIT JEE and somehow the top NLU students out-competed IIT/BITS students to get into NLU is pure bull.
Let us take one exam which is almost a level playing field for both and the top IIT/BITS/AIIMS people try for it too - UPSC CSE. It is unpredictable enough for all of us -
-has a good mugging up and factual component (UPSC Prelims),
-has a great writing component where questions keep on getting modified every year (Mains),
-has a creative component (Mains essay),
-has a math component (CSAT),
-has a logical reasoning component (CSAT passages).
See some stats online. 60% of all UPSC CSE cracking bureaucrats are Engineers. Why is that? Now don't give me that - I am happy in my Lawyer job. You can earn in multiples of what you are earning plus you have societal prestige like no other. Also, I think there is only LBSNAA-trained top bureaucrats who have the guts (in their first 5y) to stand up to the MLAs/MPs and even Chief Minister. (Read about Dr. Gautam Goswami who cut the mic of Home Minister Advani in front of 3 lakh crowd in Patna, Bihar). Why are you in some top NLU? Because the best of the best of India did not compete with you. It is plain simple.
Again, this is not in any way trying to demean the legal education fraternity. Lawyers like PM Nehru & Dr Ambedkar were leaders of men. The law gives a structure to society. And we have been a law-abiding society from Chanakya ArthaShatra to Allaudin Khilji's 4 ordinances. Science allows you to question, but, before questioning, you need to study and mug a lot. There is not interpretation or your Point of View in Science which is suffocating to free thinkers. Law is complex in its own way. But, to say CLAT is tougher than IIT JEE or BITSAT is pure crap.
Anyway, you won't understand if you don't want to. And you will give this example, that example. The point in life is, to find our path. If law is your chosen path, so be it. But, at least be humble enough to accept, that maybe, (just maybe), someone else also has the brain to read 200pages/day, write better, argue better, structure better, negotiate better, sell better and find those 'words' whose meanings can be differently interpreted (this gyan I got while studying UPSC CSE polity Vision IAS questions, saale khod khod ke question me words ke meaning ka baal ka khaal nikate hai).
Adios!
Who am I kidding, I didn't score as much as you did in my first attempt. That's a good rank to start with, if possible avoid these private colleges and get an okayish college to attempt again.
Messed up terribly on the day of that reading race (CLAT ) .I was feeling so jittery that I was barely able to read the questions , let alone comprehend them . Plus, my inability to read at a fast pace and my lack of proficiency in Maths made things worse . Left the entire Maths section unattempted . Didnβt know the answers to the G.K. questions as well . The G.K. PDFs that I had read during my prep didnβt help me at all .
Result :AIR 3,XXX π€‘π€‘. Only if the test gauged my knowledge , maybe I could have done well .
Going to a boarding school didnβt help me get through the test. So , itβs a bit of a stretch to say that kids who went to the βbest English medium schools would get a tier 2 at least and that too for studying only two monthsβ.
P.S. - Please overlook my grammatical errors, if any :)
Maybe you my missed the part where I said that they would 'probably' get a T-2 NLU, there is a possibility they won't.
No worries mate! As you've said, we're all learning here :)
I see how you might have terrible skills the main idea of any argument(especially in paragraphs) but hey again we are all learning here ;)
Appered for NEET, was alloted a government college and then i realised that i had zero passion for medicine, was doing all this because of parental pressure.(solved a good number of sample papers, prepared for it from Aakash coaching classes)
Appeared for CLAT and, got into a T1 NLU on my first attempt, without any tuitions and by solving just two sample papers. (I did have the benifit of being a avid newspaper reader since i was in 5th grade....another thing i was pressured into by parents)
Having appered for all three exams, i would say all of them had their own challenges, CLAT was a bit on the easier side because it didn't exactly require a lot of prep work. I have seen people taking drops of 2-3 years for all the three exams, so at the end of the day it's a matter of your own strengths and weaknesses.
I can figure that you are also not good at CR since your reasoning is somewhat flawed hehe. People from top international schools struggling to score more than 80% doesn't prove my point that "they perform better" wrong; what if students from less equipped schools score even less than that?
What I meant to say is that it's competitively easier for them to ace. It doesn't matter if their accuracy is 10%, if that 10% gets them a good rank, then that's all that matters.
You can even check a 2015 article of livemint
Suppose we ask someone from a government school to prepare for CLAT for a whole year and attempt it, chances are that he'll probably fail. But if we ask someone from one of the best English medium schools to prepare for it in two months, he would probably crack a T-2 at least.
But if you ask both of them to study for JEE, chances are that the former would perform better given the extra time. That's because JEE is a purely aptitude-based examination where skill has a negligent role to play.
As someone from a PCM background who has given CLAT thrice, I'd say that for me CLAT came out to be a tougher examination, but that's because I've never really worked on my reading. For a person who has been an avid reader, it might have been a cake walk for him.
The answer is quite simple, it depends on person to person. But yeah, objectively, JEE seems to be much more competitive.
(defense rests)