Is working at a company as an in-house counsel better than working at a top-tier law firm? I am willing to get paid less. My current team members are very rude and I have been working for about an year at this firm.
If your feeling this way in a years time, you should switch to another firm or in house because it get worse.Time to start prepping the CV.In-house is much better than Tier 1 law firms.Tier 1 firms are making the work environment unbearable with the WFH model, no stop to work hours.
Regardless of whether you're shifting in-house or not, remember that it's a dog eat dog world and you're all adults. If anyone who doesn't have direct control on your employment status tries to be rude at you, be vicious right back at them. Most people change tune the minute you stand up for yourself. Be rude right back.
Thaka hua bacha gen z hai. Rudeness se kya hi farak padta hai. Wait for your moment and then you be rude to them. Those are the rules of the game, as taught to us.
Darr mat bhai/behen, Seriously. Taking stress for such shit is simply not worth it. Unn lehen ke bodo ki jald hi li jayegi.....just dont worry about this. Your sanity, happiness, self worth and peace of mind is FARRRR more valuable than 1 lakh or whatever carrot they hold for us!
5 years older is an SA at most, right? SA's are so far down on the law firm ladder, they can't even book a conference room without a partner sign off, getting anyone fired is unimaginable. Call his / her bluff and draw a line. As a fresher you may think that's not possible, but trust me, it is. Once they know you're not a pushover, they'll back off. Involve your EP if you have to.
Please don't generalise - you are professional, please build a culture of calling out the rudeness. Please please let the team mate or client know that you won't stand it, also document it. Please let the superior know that he needs to tone his shit down and be direct on his feedback/speak in a professional manner. If it is Partner, please ask him if he intends to continue to be rude, in which case you will need to leave. Have confidence in yourself if you secured a tier-1 in the first place that you will have hundreds job lining up.
However, try to collaborate, understand that maybe there is a temporary frustration thing that humans often get. Combine the remote work, work stress and personal issues and the employee often looses it, and the entitlement often makes them loose basic human decency. Have seen this happen to many, can be terrible.
People are shitty everywhere, the value that we bring to the table adds to our importance and they temper down their tantrums. Adding value is not the same as working like a donkey, it is about being efficient, indispensable. I see that even if they feel frustrated, they can't do anything about it to me, solely because of value add.
I suffer from the same issue, although in my case "rude" is a massive understatement. The senior associatedg in my team is extremely toxic and I'd even say diabolical. He gets off on humiliating and belittling those under him. One time he humiliated me in front of others in a zoom call by yelling constantly just for asking a clarification. He also uses very racial and sexist slurs and generally has a deeply problematic vibe. He makes A0s feel dumb and stupid for wanting to learn more or ask clarification for better output.
I've had stress induced nightmares because of him and woken up at 5 am just to check my phone to see if I missed his text cause god forbid if you respond to his text even 10 minutes late he goes loose. Having felt trapped and even hopeless I have no clue what to do about him. Do I report to the HR / partner or just wait for him to leave the firm (I am told he might leave in a month or so, fingers crossed, but even putting up with this for one more month based on a rumour seems damaging enough)? It also pains me to see how such problematic people flourish and the only thing we're told is to keep our head down or leave instead of calling them out. Reading messages of people saying we should call them out is rather hopeful and cathartic but has it ever worked? Someone please advice as to what I should do. :(
I've been on the same boat as you, and I made up my mind to quit and leave, tail between my legs. Since I was going to quit anyway, one day I stopped my abusive SA mid-sentence and said she cannot speak to me in this manner and that if she crosses the line again I will have to involve the EP. The next day she apologised and sent me a cookie as a bribe or something. I was shell shocked because I was sure I'd be fired that very day.
Moral of the story is, even as a fresher, you're not a kid and this isn't school. You're an adult, you're a lawyer handling millions of dollars for companies. The least you can and should do is to stand up for yourself, no matter how terrifying it is. Bullies are shit scared of people who don't buy into their nonsense.
If I do that, he will retaliate by giving me more work. I mean he gives me more work than what he does to my counterparts. He likes to make me work till late night.
I'm sorry you're going through this. On the bright side, you're at the edge of a breakdown anyway, what do you have to lose? Push back and push back hard. You can't get into a fight without expecting retaliation. If you're being overworked anyway, do it while fighting back so you have something to show for the abuse. And looks like you need to have a chat with your EP about this dude's work allocation problem. I've worked in very toxic, very abusive places and it's always the same until you draw a line in the stand and push back ferociously.
Discuss the problem with this SA bothering you. It might be due to X number of reasons. Talk to him and ask him how you could make his life better. Take him out for a coffee. Try to reason with him as far as possible, and bring it to your partner's attention also before its too late. Secondly, if he is uses a threatening tone, and/or abusive language ask him to stop it, and always let him know that you'd be willing to step outside of the office if need be for resolution (I am not saying throw hands right away but let him know that aggressive behavior will not be tolerated). Go full on plata or plomo with him. Don't be leaving offices for such people, albeit for career progression reasons.
If you're a lady colleague tell it to the partner straight away. Such kind of behavior should not be tolerated.
If a pandemic doesn't teach you that life is short and death is unexpected,then nothing can be learnt by you.This is not the only law firm In the world.Apply elsewhere to another one, gets the offer and then tell this senior/SA and the firm to go to hell.
Realistic option for you - Start looking for a job. Somewhere in between finding the new job and notice period, call the person out with full force. Go all the way. Fuck him over (if he half as bad as you say he is, it will totally be worth it).
Bhai there are rude and annoying people everywhere, T1 or in-house. There are also nice and warm people everywhere.
In the long run, you need to stand up for yourself and make it clear you won't take shit from anyone ever. Workplace bullying is very common, and you deal with it like every other form of bullying: not looking a submissive tormented person.
In short term, consider switching teams/firms. This may give you fresh start to set boundaries and establish your reputation as someone who won't be bullied.
It's everywhere. People in our country don't have a handle on their emotions, more so in the legal profession. Tolerate it to a reasonable point, but stand up for yourself if it becomes too much. At the same time, don't mistake criticism for rudeness.
Trilegal has entire teams where every single person from the Partner to the counsel to the SA is a mean dick. Delhi office to be specific. The kind of abuses I've heard from the Counsel at night 3 AM is unreal - I even reported him to the HR.
The HR was a wuss who told me in indirect terms "to deal with" - like all wuss HRs at law firms. I finally quit the team. The Partner had the audacity to tell me "you shouldn't have joined the team if you could not take it". [...]
Because that Counsel at Trilegal Delhi isn't getting promoted even though he almost has the same PQE as the partner. It's the case with many other counsels at Trilegal where unless you have a good enough book, you don't get admitted to the pure equity partnership. So, just a classic case of miserable people making the lives of others miserable.
Try speaking to senior partner who can mentor the rude senior. In most cases though neither seniors nor HR do anything about it if concerned person is billing hours. So stand up for yourself and if it doesn't get better, switch.
I have been bullied by a SA in my team for a year. She was A3 when I joined and was promoted to SA after 6 months of my joining. She is an overconfident brat. She might be good at work but is a terrible human being. She used to overburden me with work and yell all the time. She would ask me to skip lunch/dinner and would ask me complete her work first. I tried everything to be friends with her. I never used to say anything to her and used to keep mum. But you know, kutte di dumm!? All I did was sobbed myself to sleep every night which resulted in anxiety issues and I had to get therapy. I informed the senior most partner, my team partner and the HR about her abusive behaviour during the annual review meeting. I even broke down while explaining to them what I was going through, due to her shitty ass behaviour. I was assured that action would be taken against her. 5 months passed and nothing changed. One day she yelled at me in front of a colleague of mine and I lost it! I called the HR and asked him to arrange for a call with the senior partners in the firm or else I was thing this case of mental harrasment to the police (since there is no policy in place for workplace bullying and I already had verbally put a complaint against her earlier). A call was arranged the next day. I was prepared with all the evidences I could collect (screenshot of teams/emails/whatsapp conversations with her etc.and yes that dumb pimp used to send me rude texts and emails, yelling at me for being 5 mins late, for not sending the work previous night, which she had to review post lunch the other day etc). The call lasted for 50 mins. My team partner obviously supported her and tried to brush my complaint under the carpet but I shared my screen and every person on the call saw what I had to show them and boom! It's been 5 months she hasn't spoken to me nor did I get to work with her post that call. I wish I had done this sooner. Don't be afraid. No one is worth suffering for. Go ahead and cut that appendix off!
However, try to collaborate, understand that maybe there is a temporary frustration thing that humans often get. Combine the remote work, work stress and personal issues and the employee often looses it, and the entitlement often makes them loose basic human decency. Have seen this happen to many, can be terrible.
People are shitty everywhere, the value that we bring to the table adds to our importance and they temper down their tantrums. Adding value is not the same as working like a donkey, it is about being efficient, indispensable. I see that even if they feel frustrated, they can't do anything about it to me, solely because of value add.
The place doesn't matter. It's an insecure person issue.
I've had stress induced nightmares because of him and woken up at 5 am just to check my phone to see if I missed his text cause god forbid if you respond to his text even 10 minutes late he goes loose. Having felt trapped and even hopeless I have no clue what to do about him. Do I report to the HR / partner or just wait for him to leave the firm (I am told he might leave in a month or so, fingers crossed, but even putting up with this for one more month based on a rumour seems damaging enough)? It also pains me to see how such problematic people flourish and the only thing we're told is to keep our head down or leave instead of calling them out. Reading messages of people saying we should call them out is rather hopeful and cathartic but has it ever worked? Someone please advice as to what I should do. :(
Moral of the story is, even as a fresher, you're not a kid and this isn't school. You're an adult, you're a lawyer handling millions of dollars for companies. The least you can and should do is to stand up for yourself, no matter how terrifying it is. Bullies are shit scared of people who don't buy into their nonsense.
If you're a lady colleague tell it to the partner straight away. Such kind of behavior should not be tolerated.
In the long run, you need to stand up for yourself and make it clear you won't take shit from anyone ever. Workplace bullying is very common, and you deal with it like every other form of bullying: not looking a submissive tormented person.
In short term, consider switching teams/firms. This may give you fresh start to set boundaries and establish your reputation as someone who won't be bullied.
The HR was a wuss who told me in indirect terms "to deal with" - like all wuss HRs at law firms. I finally quit the team. The Partner had the audacity to tell me "you shouldn't have joined the team if you could not take it". [...]
Came here to check if there is some new advice. Thanks LI buddies!
Any more gyaan on how to deal with it?