List of NLSIU alumni teaching in world's top universities:
- Tarunabh Khaitan, Lavanya Rajamani and Dev Gangjee: Professors at Oxford - Rohit De: Assoc Prof at Yale (History). - Surabhi Ranganathan: Senior Lecturer at Cambridge - Prabha Kotiswaran: Prof at King's College. - Shyam Balganesh: Prof at Penn - At least 5 to 10 others who I have missed.
It begs the question as to why other NLU alumni seem to be predominantly teaching in lower ranked colleges, even after degrees from similar institutions as those above. Is it because the world's top law schools only hire from NLSIU?
Quality research takes time and academia is one of those fields where in addition to your work output the no of years you have put in is sort of relevant criteria. NLSIU is the oldest amongst NLUs and naturally, by extension, it will have an advantage over others in those terms. Take for example Tarunabh graduated in 2004 when Nalsar just had one batch which had graduated. So, it is not a fair comparison that you are making, and the gap will decrease over time.
Anyways, it's not like it's just NLS folks who are ruling the roost, they do have a discernible advantage. From the top of my head, I can think of Akshaya Kamalnath who is at Australian National University and is a NALSAR grad. I cannot think of many not because they don't exist but because it is not my field. I am sure fellow academic would be able to pinpoint many others.
I don't think ANU's rank is as high as those above. The point being made is why the most elite colleges like Oxbridge and the Ivy League are hiring NLSIU grads but not from elsewhere. It is something to think about. Could even be lack of PR by others.
Do you really think that places like Oxbridge etc. consider for their faculty recruitment where those people have done their graduation from in India? If you do, then you should revise your opinion. Only their foreign education credentials, publications, awards/scholarships won, conferences presented in, and similar factors are considered.
What Nope has already said... These comparisons help noone and all University's alumni grow over time. Also, as someone else has also said on the thread, no foreign University cares about your undergrad education when it comes to faculty hiring. However, just off the top of my head to ward off these baseless perceptions that no other NLU alumni is going to good universities, some from NALSAR other than Akshya include Shreya Atrey (Oxford), Arushi Garg (Sheffield), Chinmayi Arun (ISP, Yale & BKC, Harvard), Swethaa Ballakrishnen (UC Irvine).
NLS's age and the long time it takes to become a professor. Most of the NLS alum who are professors abroad graduated at a time when no other NLU existed.
NALSAR is getting there. But others are behind. Perhaps because very few from other NLUs want to be law profs in the first place? For example, NUJS and GNLU now the biggest feeders for corp law firms and the dream for students there is to work Big 7 law firm rather become a law prof??
Being an academic and having the desire to settle abroad are not necessarily the same thing. I know several people with an NLU background who prefer to teach in India despite the additional hurdles and red tapes involved. NUJS has at least 30 graduates who are in the teaching profession now. While some teach in Singapore, UK, Canada etc., most of them teach in India, including at NLUs, state universities, or Jindal. I am not saying every person who is teaching here won't go abroad if given the opportunity. However, just because they are teaching here, assuming that they are worse in quality than someone who prefers to teach abroad is a bad call. It is as much a matter of quality as personal choice, and third-party idle conjectures cannot ever distinguish between the two.
NUJS does have a very high proportion of students who want to work at corp law firms. Certainly higher than other tier 1 NLUs. I am curious to know why.
Not exactly. Proportion-wise, all the leading NLUs have got close to 50% of their student population interning with the firms and sitting for Day Zero. NUJS had a higher batch strength compared to NLSIU, NALSAR etc., hence in terms of absolute numbers, it appears to be more. From 2021 onward, most of the NLUs now have 120-130 students. The comparison if any would become easier then to make. As for the NUJS students who join the firms, at least 50% or more quit within a year or two after saving some money, paying off loans etc. and then opt for other career choices. Maybe the relatively higher fees and/or the family financial background are also factors contributing to this. No proper study has been made yet about any of this, so everything else is merely conjecture.
I agree with you that all leading NLUs (except NUJS) have around 50% of their students who want to pursue a corp job. While the numbers are easier to ascertain for other NLUs because their RCCs reveal the size of the recruitment pool, the same does not hold true for NUJS because our RPC does not form a 'recruitment pool' in the first place. I am a Noojie myself and I can tell you that at least in my own batch around 75% of the students are interested in corp law jobs. I also know that the percentage was similar for senior batches. I just wanted to know what it is about our college that so many of us want a corp job, even if as you said only initially.
Because getting those are the easiest because of your alumni strength and whatever reputation is still left, and you can't bother to study or prepare harder for anything else? Please stop trolling. If you are from NUJS, then people should ask you why it is so, not the other way around.
- Middle class job mentality - Lack of role model professors - Lack of role model alumni - Lack of culture of research and value given to research: free marks for projects
Top 20 law schools according to QS below. So NALSAR gets 1 hit (ANU) and NLSIU gets at least 6, even 7 if you include Arun at NUS (3 x Oxford + Yale + Cambridge + King's). But these rankings are a bit flawed. Penn and Duke are missing, Georgetown and NUS shouldn't be there. Honestly, only US and UK universities should be in the top 30. Then Australia, Singapore, Canada and Europe from 30 onwards.
Harvard University University of Oxford University of Cambridge Yale University Stanford University The London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) Columbia University New York University (NYU) University of California, Berkeley (UCB) National University of Singapore (NUS) The University of Melbourne University of Chicago The University of New South Wales (UNSW Sydney) The University of Sydney UCL King's College London The Australian National University University of Toronto Georgetown University Université Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne
Your lack of actual knowledge about the global legal education scene is shocking! Yet it gets eclipsed easily by your temerity to pose as an expert in that field.
The answer is simple: NLSIU has best faculty. To be a good law prof you need to have been trained well and have role models. Apart from NALSAR and NLUD, faculty in the other NLUs are [...]
Why do NLS students seek random validation of superiority over other NLUs, those professors are there because they graduated early on. Academic positions due to their academic and liberal nature usually have diversity quotas in top universities. It is not seen in good light, if all the professors in these universities see are white, straight and male. There was a time when NLS was the only dedicated law school in India, there were universities which taught law but were not dedicated. NLS, in it’s initial years, properly exploited all these factors which is why NLS alumni is where it is.
NLS keeps on posting on LI that they have had placements from DB, ITC, HUL, etc and then about professors. The thing is that all of this ceased to happen before 2015. As the competition has increased, NLS has fared not so good, I wouldn’t call it bad because that can never happen. But NLS has not performed to the standards that it was known for. In my elder brother’s time, there was only one tier 1 which was NLS and everything else was tier 2. Now that students have started choosing NALSAR/NUJS/NLUD/JINDAL /FOREIGN EDUCATION over NLS, it has lost its pool of the top cream and has not performed to the standards it was known for.
So maybe instead of exerting your superiority based on what your alumni did when you held monopoly, go and actually do something and post about contemporary achievements? You lost the race to NLUO, NUSRL and Symbiosis in Jessup. Not just this year, you haven’t been doing good in any moot, so maybe just calm down and do something.
2018 Jessup runner up, Oxford IPR win this year. Magic Circle and Rhodes have plateaued, with others also getting a few every year. Not like anyone’s going to London from NLUO lol. UPSC success now undisputed, only NLUD is even in the running frankly. So, really nothing much has shifted downwards, at the same time the most rigorous and qualified facility and admin leadership at any university in India leave alone NLUs. Sudhir, Mrinal, Aparna, Arun, Saurabh. Even the MCS faculty advisor is now Raag, a Jessup winner.
NLS has come to days when they have to cite UPSC stats lol, by your logic BHU law school > NLS because half of their law school goes for and clears judiciary and other UPSC exams.
Keep yourself away from us, we don’t want to be included, we are doing good and don’t have to cite our upsc achievements i am sorry.
So rich of NLUD to claim this, when all they have been citing for the past 5 years is UPSC success. Now NLS has again beaten them on that front, while all other benchmarks like Corp jobs, foreign study, best professors, think tank work are all still where NLS is still at the top.
So the reality is this: NLS seems to find each parameter that other colleges try to cite as their USP, and then top/are it the highest tier in that (be it Jiggles and faculty quality, litigation and TLCs, consulting/investment banking where it has only been NLS, corp placements which it was always on top, academia same story). So the takeaway is that whatever one wants to do with a legal education in India, Law School is the best place to be. Has been on many fronts for years, but now with Sudhir at the helm, it is the case on ALL fronts now.
When did NLS ace any university in UPSC? Cite your stats. Also just like my last claim, by that logic BHU is doing better than NLS. BHU’s usp is judiciary, surpass them daddy? You’ve just randomly stated stuff, you’re not ahead in any of the factors than any too 5 law school. How do you have better faculty quality than NLU D let alone JGLS which is ahead by miles.
So the takeaway from this is my cucumber. Are we talking about the NLAT Sudhir?
Sudhir, Mrinal, Arun Thiruvengadathan, Nigam, Sarasu, Rahul Singh. They form the core, best cohort anywhere in any law faculty in India. Younger lot led by Kunal, Rashmi and Raag.
All on permanent tenure, or on tenure track. Jiggles’ fly in fly out recent NLU grads biding time for foreign PhD admits don’t compare. As for NLUD, post the latest exodus, the bench strength is dwindling very fast to NALSAR levels. If new admin in Dwarka is not careful, it might fall down to NUJS levels.
Clearly your education has not taught you the importance of humility, or the ability to prove one's own competence without disparaging others in the process. Maybe you should have been taught by better faculty. As for your tall claims, unless the NLSIU students all of a sudden start performing way better than they have been till date, then there is no way to establish that these people are doing a better job than their predecessors. After all, NLSIU became what it is today not under their stewardship, but under others'.
Agree, the majority of the comment was not trollish. Our main 'trollish' yardstick is currently that if a comment is ad hominem, or includes partial ad hominem against another poster (even if only a sentence), it is trollish at least in intent, but we are hoping to refine this definition a little bit. In case of any suggestions, please let us know...
NLUO grads are regularly going to Oxford, cambridge, harvard stanford, UCs, Chicago, Kings, etc after UG. So I guess it's not that the tier 2 or the next gen NLUs are lagging behind now. It won't be long before these people would be in the places where the first generation NLU alumni are today.
Is that actually true? Don't most law school students of most law schools go for the high paying law firm jobs most of the time if there are any available? It's not like Marquee Firms are having a hard time finding enough candidates when going for days zero at any of the top NLUs, right?
Absolutely true. None of the commentators here has ever done any actual study before claiming that most students from X or Y don't go for law firm jobs. It's all hot air.
Corp law job seekers are certainly the largest group in all tier 1 NLUs. However, their proportion to others can vary across law schools. For instance, NLUD usually has a low proportion, probably because many UPSC aspirants take admission there but even as per placement articles published on LI previously the proportion of corp aspirants is higher in NLS and NALSAR than NLUD. NUJS does not release its numbers but my friends there tell me that it is a very corp oriented college, possibly more than even NLS and NALSAR.
This obsession with ranking and alumni performance is a tad difficult to understand. [...] But because you asked let me help you out. Yes on this account, nls has done well. It has 5-8 former graduates in good universities abroad. If you think they got these jobs BECAUSE of their nls background, you aren't just unaware, you are incapable of being aware. They got these jobs for the same reason any one else gets good jobs. They are good at their work, they can network, they work hard and they are lucky. If you think anyone who hasn't gotten a job in these universities aren't doing high quality work, then you are... remember what I said earlier about being incapable of being aware? Now does that answer your question? I don't think so because you aren't for answers. You likely have a deep sense of inferiority complex that you are trying to hide by glowing vicariously in other people's success. [...]
I don't think so because you aren't here for answers. You likely have a deep sense of inferiority complex that you are trying to hide by glowing vicariously in other people's success.
Teaching in Academia, in elite ivy league schools might be a source of pride.
I would like to kindly point out that, the law both procedural and substantive are totally different compared to Indian laws.
The people who you have listed did not become faculty right after their NLSIU degrees. They only qualified to become faculty because they pursued advanced degrees in Oxbridge and ivy league schools.
One will be misled that NLSIU alumna became faculty just after NLSIU degrees! Even a Doctoral from NLSIU cannot become faculty elsewhere outside India as the laws are different!
The next thing I would like to point out is that, law degrees are required to obtain a 'certificate of practice' from BCI after qualifying in AIBE.
There are tens of thousands of cases pending in Indian courts! The fundamental reason why NLS were started is to attract the best minds in the country to pursue law degrees and bolster the ever burdened Indian judiciary!
Plausibly, the question should be reframed, as to how many NLS, alumna, entered the Indian judiciary, became advocates, judges and legislators in States and Union.
For example, many a US Presidents were/are alumna of Oxbridge and ivy league law schools!
For example, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama are recent examples!
Their service to their country is glaringly evident.
While the service to the nation from NLS alumna is conspicuously absent.
NLSIU opened in 1989, has even one alumna joined legislature and assisted their homeland.
As a percentage how many alumna have entered litigation? We know that income is less in litigation!
If earning was the sole criterion, why even bother to study law. The NLS students are definitely capable of qualifying CAT and obtain MBA's and earn.
Further, has any alumna entered UPSC! And reached secretary level!
I would point that the writer is living in a euphoric fantasy land. India needs efficient, and dedicated litigation lawyers to assist the entire country and judiciary to reduce the backlog of cases and not boasting of going abroad or joining corporate jobs.
Don't forget, NLS graduates are subsidized by tax payers money in the hope of getting back.
NLS have gone the IIT, IIIT, IISc way, a platform for exporting talent and 'brain drain'
- Tarunabh Khaitan, Lavanya Rajamani and Dev Gangjee: Professors at Oxford
- Rohit De: Assoc Prof at Yale (History).
- Surabhi Ranganathan: Senior Lecturer at Cambridge
- Prabha Kotiswaran: Prof at King's College.
- Shyam Balganesh: Prof at Penn
- At least 5 to 10 others who I have missed.
It begs the question as to why other NLU alumni seem to be predominantly teaching in lower ranked colleges, even after degrees from similar institutions as those above. Is it because the world's top law schools only hire from NLSIU?
Anyways, it's not like it's just NLS folks who are ruling the roost, they do have a discernible advantage. From the top of my head, I can think of Akshaya Kamalnath who is at Australian National University and is a NALSAR grad. I cannot think of many not because they don't exist but because it is not my field. I am sure fellow academic would be able to pinpoint many others.
- Middle class job mentality
- Lack of role model professors
- Lack of role model alumni
- Lack of culture of research and value given to research: free marks for projects
Harvard University
University of Oxford
University of Cambridge
Yale University
Stanford University
The London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE)
Columbia University
New York University (NYU)
University of California, Berkeley (UCB)
National University of Singapore (NUS)
The University of Melbourne
University of Chicago
The University of New South Wales (UNSW Sydney)
The University of Sydney
UCL
King's College London
The Australian National University
University of Toronto
Georgetown University
Université Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2021/law-legal-studies
This is the answer. Nothing more.
NLS keeps on posting on LI that they have had placements from DB, ITC, HUL, etc and then about professors. The thing is that all of this ceased to happen before 2015. As the competition has increased, NLS has fared not so good, I wouldn’t call it bad because that can never happen. But NLS has not performed to the standards that it was known for. In my elder brother’s time, there was only one tier 1 which was NLS and everything else was tier 2. Now that students have started choosing NALSAR/NUJS/NLUD/JINDAL /FOREIGN EDUCATION over NLS, it has lost its pool of the top cream and has not performed to the standards it was known for.
So maybe instead of exerting your superiority based on what your alumni did when you held monopoly, go and actually do something and post about contemporary achievements? You lost the race to NLUO, NUSRL and Symbiosis in Jessup. Not just this year, you haven’t been doing good in any moot, so maybe just calm down and do something.
Magic Circle and Rhodes have plateaued, with others also getting a few every year. Not like anyone’s going to London from NLUO lol. UPSC success now undisputed, only NLUD is even in the running frankly. So, really nothing much has shifted downwards, at the same time the most rigorous and qualified facility and admin leadership at any university in India leave alone NLUs. Sudhir, Mrinal, Aparna, Arun, Saurabh. Even the MCS faculty advisor is now Raag, a Jessup winner.
Keep yourself away from us, we don’t want to be included, we are doing good and don’t have to cite our upsc achievements i am sorry.
So the reality is this: NLS seems to find each parameter that other colleges try to cite as their USP, and then top/are it the highest tier in that (be it Jiggles and faculty quality, litigation and TLCs, consulting/investment banking where it has only been NLS, corp placements which it was always on top, academia same story). So the takeaway is that whatever one wants to do with a legal education in India, Law School is the best place to be. Has been on many fronts for years, but now with Sudhir at the helm, it is the case on ALL fronts now.
So the takeaway from this is my cucumber. Are we talking about the NLAT Sudhir?
All on permanent tenure, or on tenure track. Jiggles’ fly in fly out recent NLU grads biding time for foreign PhD admits don’t compare. As for NLUD, post the latest exodus, the bench strength is dwindling very fast to NALSAR levels. If new admin in Dwarka is not careful, it might fall down to NUJS levels.
[Moderator note: This is incorrect, NUJS releases its figures and they look fairly similar in break-up to others https://www.legallyindia.com/lawschools/nujs-secured-119-mostly-pre-covid-placements-for-2019-20-batch-64-in-highest-pay-bracket-17-lit-17-future-cse-judges-20210412-12029 ]
Quote:
I would like to kindly point out that, the law both procedural and substantive are totally different compared to Indian laws.
The people who you have listed did not become faculty right after their NLSIU degrees. They only qualified to become faculty because they pursued advanced degrees in Oxbridge and ivy league schools.
One will be misled that NLSIU alumna became faculty just after NLSIU degrees! Even a Doctoral from NLSIU cannot become faculty elsewhere outside India as the laws are different!
The next thing I would like to point out is that, law degrees are required to obtain a 'certificate of practice' from BCI after qualifying in AIBE.
There are tens of thousands of cases pending in Indian courts! The fundamental reason why NLS were started is to attract the best minds in the country to pursue law degrees and bolster the ever burdened Indian judiciary!
Plausibly, the question should be reframed, as to how many NLS, alumna, entered the Indian judiciary, became advocates, judges and legislators in States and Union.
For example, many a US Presidents were/are alumna of Oxbridge and ivy league law schools!
For example, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama are recent examples!
Their service to their country is glaringly evident.
While the service to the nation from NLS alumna is conspicuously absent.
NLSIU opened in 1989, has even one alumna joined legislature and assisted their homeland.
As a percentage how many alumna have entered litigation? We know that income is less in litigation!
If earning was the sole criterion, why even bother to study law. The NLS students are definitely capable of qualifying CAT and obtain MBA's and earn.
Further, has any alumna entered UPSC! And reached secretary level!
I would point that the writer is living in a euphoric fantasy land. India needs efficient, and dedicated litigation lawyers to assist the entire country and judiciary to reduce the backlog of cases and not boasting of going abroad or joining corporate jobs.
Don't forget, NLS graduates are subsidized by tax payers money in the hope of getting back.
NLS have gone the IIT, IIIT, IISc way, a platform for exporting talent and 'brain drain'