I was looking for a change in practice area, I was at 3 PQE an was looking to shift to corp-litigation.
I was forthcoming about this with the said firm and I even took a 60% paycut just so that I could learn corp litigation. The Firm started piling on IAs, Pleading on me and the partner was super busy to review the said drafts, he would just discuss law points, but i did need guidance on the drafting aspect which he refused to give.
Was told by the HR person that I need to "buck up", I simply stated that it will take some time, within 15 days I will not be ready to handle a matter end to end, but they didnt listen and wanted me to lead 17 matters when having absolutely no experience. They gave me time of 5 days to get abreast with all the matters or else I would be fired.
I just walked out of the office never to come back. Refused to pick up their calls and moved back to corporate. Horrendous experience.
Hey - it's great that you were abe to make the switch to a T1 after being unjustly treated by this prick! If you don't mind, could you reflect on your journey of job-hunting as a former A0 at a non-T1 firm for our benefit — just some tips, tricks, how does that process go, and what can incoming A0s keep in mind to prepare for contingencies? Thanks!
great work Alias that should be attitude. this legal industry is mostly filled with crappy inflated ego people who neither want to teach and nor guide in right direction. Foreign law firm and nexw generation will teach them how to treat people
sikhenge ghanta or galityaa nikalenge hazaar. One should remember that all the work and A0 produces should be reviewed other seniors. A0 and A1 in T1 or t2 or taught very less
I made the mistake of joining a small now-dead firm just after graduating from a premiere law school. With absolutely no experience, I was asked by the managing partner to draft a detailed legal opinion on a complicated transaction that involved foreign investment into India into a very niche sector. With zero clue as to how to go about it and zero support or guidance from team (no SA,PA or even experienced associate on the engagement), I was completely at a loss. First version of deliverable was, as expected, poor and oh horror of horrors... the man started screaming, yelling and using nasty words. Every engagement involved some mistreatment or the other, with absolutely no guidance whatsoever. And, more humiliation piled on and on. And snide remarks of not being good enough, NLUs are all crap, and 'look-out-for-something-else' started, just one month into the job. After 2 months, I just lost it. Almost threw the agreement i was supposed to mark-up, right at his face and walked out, without another job in hand! Best feeling ever! Exhilarating to say the least! No regrets though of having done that 'cos I went on to join a Tier1 firm and did well too. I don't even mention the firm on my CV. But, I always make sure I am nice to junior kids, 'cos they shouldn't go thru the torture I went through.
My advice to any fresher kid who is ill-treated at work is - it's not the last job out there. Don't take BS from anyone. It's so not worth it! You are better than what they think you are worth!
Of course, the firm itself died soon. The prick (he used to touch women inappropriately i was also told) continues to practice.....
I was going to say - 'was this my ex-boss'. But then I thought this is like every loser partner ever. Good for you man, that you saw the signs.
I was once stuck with a guy for 3 months who used expletives (MC, BC and the works) on me, because I could not turn around an SHA overnight. I was 6 months into the profession. I was on the verge of crying, when that happened in the middle of the office. I quit the job within the week. Today, several years down the line, my only regret is why I didnt punch him that day in the office (or later that night in the parking).
Honestly, I dont have anything against him now (out of sight, out of mind) - but God be my witness, I really hope we never meet again, because I know exactly what I am going to do if we meet.
The good thing that happened out of it is that eventually (over the next 9 years), I realised something. More often than not kids (PQE 0, 1, 2, etc.) hardly realise at that time that they are being exploited, mistreated or harassed. They see it as something happening as a learning process or worse, rite-of-passage. I made it a point in my life to never ever mistreat a junior or a peer. Thankfully, today I have a great rapport with all members of the team, everyone enjoys working with me, peers and juniors confide in me all the time, and all of them look at me as a mentor.
IMO if the firm fired you( as an A0-A2) it's just a vulgar display of dictatorial punishment, management likes to do this to frighten all the juniors.They could have changed your team,put you on unpaid leaves etc but then choosing to fire you is sic. If that,they should have fired your Senior Associate aybd Principal Associate even the founding partner but that would never happen.All these incompetent guys do is scream out orders and dump all the work on the junior associates ,A0,A1,A2 Joining a Tier 1 is just slavery at it's worst.
Only if it was. Unfortunately hiring and retaining talent in Indian law firms is a big challenge. Sure, some people can be straight up sick, but none - no one wants to let go of s good talent who adds value. You will only know this if you start adding value.
Not inside the law firm but had an interview with a young partner (then) for an SA position in a Tier 1 firm. This was quite a few years ago. Interview was 60 mins and almost 50 mins was spent by the partner in showing off his own knowledge & how great his practice was. Got the offer and rejected it & probably the best decision I ever made. The partner has continued to do well but found out that the attrition rate is one of the highest in his team & he's now a well known prick.
Usually it is outsourced to a CS but sometimes law firms do serve as a go-between for the client and CS. At least, that was how it happened in my experience. So, we were involved in everything except actual submission of SPICe form.
If a foreign client is involved, and the matter is hourly, firms use this as a milking opportunity. Company incorporation mandates come through all the time. The work is qualitatively bogus, but acts as a stepboard for the firm to endear itself to the client for taking on transactional mandates in the future. Also, given the involvement of the roc, it's literally treading on eggshells all the time, leaving a very narrow margin of error.
Sorry for how you felt and were treated. Often, such experiences can be amalgamation of the following:
- mistake vis-a-vis experience level, considering mistake in light of the experience + quality of your deliverable and level you are hired at.
- quality of work being delivered by the resource is regularly sub-par (especially, visible to fellow team members who take up the load of the work and polish it). Worst thing about this is, nobody wants to tell someone who has experience, has just come-in as lateral, is a fresher but not a friend, that the deliverable sucks. We, and I am guilty myself, just assume that they will see the edited work and learn themselves. Nobody wants to tell a coworker in order to work and collaborate well.
- Unfortunately, after a limit it becomes visible to partners that the resource is fucking up the team balance. Three things happen (i) work load is reduced from the resource, gets a chat, gets a opportunity to get back in a decent team; (ii) consistently gets lesser work; (iii) gumnaami.
- in some of the worst firms, you get called to a conference room and get kicked out, most are courteous and hope you will leave willingly.
Had screwed up on a minor point in a board resolution for incorporation of a company. Was hounded and terrorised by the firm management and was forced to visit the ROC in person to rectify the same, at my own expenses. This, when the ROC had not even spotted the error in the first place and had proceeded to grant registration. During appraisal, was subjected to another round of humiliation at the hands of the reporting partner (one of the founding partners) and was asked to leave the firm without any pay in lieu of early termination.
Happens when you don’t train the junior and expect great work from him despite his level not permitting it
I was forthcoming about this with the said firm and I even took a 60% paycut just so that I could learn corp litigation. The Firm started piling on IAs, Pleading on me and the partner was super busy to review the said drafts, he would just discuss law points, but i did need guidance on the drafting aspect which he refused to give.
Was told by the HR person that I need to "buck up", I simply stated that it will take some time, within 15 days I will not be ready to handle a matter end to end, but they didnt listen and wanted me to lead 17 matters when having absolutely no experience. They gave me time of 5 days to get abreast with all the matters or else I would be fired.
I just walked out of the office never to come back. Refused to pick up their calls and moved back to corporate. Horrendous experience.
Fake claim
A week later since that payment, received an SMS asking me to look for another job. No reasons assigned.
Emotionally scarred for the next 3-4
months.
My advice to any fresher kid who is ill-treated at work is - it's not the last job out there. Don't take BS from anyone. It's so not worth it! You are better than what they think you are worth!
Of course, the firm itself died soon. The prick (he used to touch women inappropriately i was also told) continues to practice.....
I was once stuck with a guy for 3 months who used expletives (MC, BC and the works) on me, because I could not turn around an SHA overnight. I was 6 months into the profession. I was on the verge of crying, when that happened in the middle of the office. I quit the job within the week. Today, several years down the line, my only regret is why I didnt punch him that day in the office (or later that night in the parking).
Honestly, I dont have anything against him now (out of sight, out of mind) - but God be my witness, I really hope we never meet again, because I know exactly what I am going to do if we meet.
The good thing that happened out of it is that eventually (over the next 9 years), I realised something. More often than not kids (PQE 0, 1, 2, etc.) hardly realise at that time that they are being exploited, mistreated or harassed. They see it as something happening as a learning process or worse, rite-of-passage. I made it a point in my life to never ever mistreat a junior or a peer. Thankfully, today I have a great rapport with all members of the team, everyone enjoys working with me, peers and juniors confide in me all the time, and all of them look at me as a mentor.
- mistake vis-a-vis experience level, considering mistake in light of the experience + quality of your deliverable and level you are hired at.
- quality of work being delivered by the resource is regularly sub-par (especially, visible to fellow team members who take up the load of the work and polish it). Worst thing about this is, nobody wants to tell someone who has experience, has just come-in as lateral, is a fresher but not a friend, that the deliverable sucks. We, and I am guilty myself, just assume that they will see the edited work and learn themselves. Nobody wants to tell a coworker in order to work and collaborate well.
- Unfortunately, after a limit it becomes visible to partners that the resource is fucking up the team balance. Three things happen (i) work load is reduced from the resource, gets a chat, gets a opportunity to get back in a decent team; (ii) consistently gets lesser work; (iii) gumnaami.
- in some of the worst firms, you get called to a conference room and get kicked out, most are courteous and hope you will leave willingly.