You can work at a smaller firm if you want to continue with transactional law. You may still have some long days, but it isn't as brutal as a larger law firm. And pay grade is slightly lower when you start out but you may rise in the ranks sooner and end up making about the same once you get to a PA/AP level.

Unfortunately, this is pretty dependent on your specific team culture and boss. Some teams chill together through the day, so even if you want to complete work and leave at a decent hour, you end up waiting on others to finish their bit so you can get on with yours. Luckily my team wasn't like that when I started out and now I ensure my own team functions like this. But I can see within my firm how different people can be.

know politics. it is just talking of people or their work in a way they would not on the face. and involving others and making it a story of and by everyone- and not just by the person saying.
it is about spreading withour saying one is spreading. it is saying things harmful and unnecessary. stay away from such people or such talk and such culture and do not do it. it helps in short-run but in the medium-run it benefits only the slime of the slug- which you are not so it you will not win this fest.

Agreed (and well observed through experience) that associates don't have a choice in which team or partner to work with (or honestly, some teams and partners will never have associates join). The point in general is more about not normalizing bad treatment and leaving the team/ partner/ firm for own mental health and well-being. Don't let the mental health seminars fool you - watch out for yourself.

Fantastic advices across the board here - and I support almost all of them.

One thing I will say - Find the little things that make you happy everyday. Maybe a few pages of a book, or a TV show or taking a drive late at night or just meditation - whatever it is, try to build small wins of happiness on a day to day basis and you'll find that life isn't such a big slog sometimes.

Best of luck!

The people who are advising freshers to stay clear of certain partners should know that most tier one firms in India don't really leave the choice to a fresher of which team or partner to join. Nor do most entertain a request for change of teams. Which is overall a bad practice, and often causes people to leave firms when they might have been happier by simply shifting teams.

Always always always choose a partner over a firm or even a practice. You should do a bit of research and its not that difficult to find out. Stay a million miles away from those who have no lives of their own and expect the same from you. The ones who get pissed off if you miss their calls post 10 PM. The ones who get upset if they don't see their team around physically. The ones who create deadlines or accept unreasonable requests routinely from clients just because they have nothing better to do during a weekend. How much ever these partners chit-chat with you they actually don't have much respect for either you or your time. These partners will not only destroy the team that you belong to but they also will drive you out of the firm or sometimes even the profession sooner or later.

I have similar seniority as Rec and I cannot agree more with them.

I made the mistake of thinking that 2-3 years into the profession, I was too far into a specialized career - in the hindsight, I was not.

But, to make this more confusing, let me give you the example of a friend: they left a law firm (with 2-3 years PQE) and graduated from IIMA. That friend and I were drunk one day and we were talking about how both of us would have thought we were successful if we could see how we had progressed in life and yet, both of us were unhappy and directionless, without any mooring, just meandering through life.

I think no one has put it better than you have. @All - Take a print of this and stick it on your desk at office (yes, in full public view, or if its too much then at home), and read it once a day. This will take you a long way.

I would like to differ from this advice. As an A0, you are definitely answerable to other senior members of the team, depending on how the chain of command works. Claiming that only the partner can tell you what to do or not do is a sureshot way of souring your relationship with the rest of your team.

You need to establish from Day 1 that you are answerable to the Partner and not other team members.

Keep your head down and do your work properly. If anyone questions as to why you are leaving so early, tell them that you are done with your work, and that they can email you if required.

I moved out of a tier 2 law firm more than 2 years ago and joined in house. I hope some of the lessons I learnt and I’m sharing would benefit the young associates:

1. Learn to say No. With increasing awareness on what constitutes professional behaviour in the Indian context and attrition being an evaluation yardstick for partners at some firms, boundaries are increasingly being respected. Even if not out of the goodness of their heart, bosses these days tend to respect red lines (avoiding weekend work, no personal comments, no late coming and late sitting etc.) expressed by juniors for fear of bad market rep (which results in difficulty in lateral hiring). But you have to explicitly spell out these red lines - don’t expect it to appear magically. I know it takes courage to say no at a junior level - but if you don’t, you’re setting an expectation level that will be hard/toxic to keep up with. For example, stay away from partners who expect you to turn up on weekends even if there is no work or partners who start and end late and expect you to follow their work cycle.

2. If you have set the wrong expectation level in terms of work load or work hours/ have a toxic work culture at your firm - it’s best to leave the firm as early as possible. Don’t overthink - what about promotion? what about money? So long as you’re good and you’re below Counsel/PA level moving will not inordinately affect your promotion chances (if the Firm is fair then one year is enough to assess promotion worthiness of a candidate up to Counsel/PA level). The more you stay the more you will hate law firms in general/ lose confidence.

3. Be very very very wary of bosses who say we’re a family. This is a trick to get you to do stuff that you will not ordinarily do in a professional setting (ordering food, putting up with personal comments or intrusion into your personal life etc). Same for bosses who refer to you as a “Kid”, “Baccha”, “Bacche”, or “Bete” including in front of clients. These are not terms of endearment - they are subtle ways for the boss to put you in your place/ remind you of your place and to exert authority. I was part of a negotiation where I was shocked to see the
Partner representing the other side continuously refer to their lead associate as Kiddo. Needless to say, after the second day of negotiations, no one in the room took the associate seriously despite their obvious competence.

4. Be sure to have an independent equation with other partners, PAs and especially the Managing Partner. I know this sounds difficult - how can a fresher make equations with other partners or the MP? Start small, say hello when you see them, wish them on birthdays etc. There are many insecure partners out there who will never let their associates have visibility/ relationships with the management. This will result in you being at the total mercy of your partner when it comes to promotions etc. I would rate this very high up in the order of things to do for your own survival and eventual independence.

5. Do not indulge in discussing your colleagues in the team with your boss even if the boss initiates it. Often this is a ploy to divide and rule the team - especially in teams where there are issues of work environment. Stay non committal and don’t offer any opinion.

6. Never accept “even I haven’t taken leave” as a reason from your boss to not be given leave. Some partners revel in being seen as a martyr or workaholics - and a small minority don’t have a personal life which negates the need for leave.

7. Hang out with people other than law from time to time - it will help you break the toxic bubble that eventually builds up in hanging out with the same people (comparisons of bonus, deals etc).

8. Gently but firmly dissuade questions on your personal life from seniors in the team. Once you break this barrier there is no going back - nothing is off limits for questioning after that.

9. Maintain healthy cross team friendships, especially in teams which are run like a law firm within a law firm or where your partner does not enjoy a good rapport/reputation within the firm.

10. Seek out opportunities to build client relations - it’s not as if your book will develop overnight. On that note, be wary of partners/seniors who dissuade you from such opportunities or who want you to route client referrals (big or small) exclusively through them.

11. Your lunch or dinner should be inviolable. There is no need to schedule or attend calls around that time and don’t feel pressured to eat with your team. It’s a choice that you can and should exercise. Obviously be reasonable with the time you take for lunch or dinner.

If you like the transactional lawyering that you have to do in a corp firm, but don't like the absence of work life balance, join one, get at least a couple of years' experience and then shift in house. For first gen litigators, it might make sense to join a good lit firm or the lit department of a tier one firm for the first couple of years to build at least some sort of rep for yourself, and also save a little bit of money to help you tide over the first year of independent practice. Money-wise, frankly, if you want law firm scale money as a fresher, then you'll have to remain in a law firm only, there is no equivalent option. Every field has its pros, money is one of the rare few pros that an Indian law firm life offers.

Thank you for your answer. I appreciate it. Perhaps, in my agitated state after reading the above comments I sounded a little unclear. Allow me to rephrase the question a bit because you seem like someone who has a good amount of experience. Money matters, particularly for those of us who don't come from a strong financial background. I was privileged enough to graduate from a top tier NLU and I currently work at a tier 1 firm. I don't like the work and there is no balance. All I want in life is to work a reasonable amount, earn decently (for me a lakh a month is more than enough) and have time for myself. I don't see that happening at a firm (my batchmates share similar experiences with regards to work). All alternatives you suggested are good but very theoretical as of now or very onerous to pursue (clearing UPSC or starting your own lit practice).

That's why firms made sense in college. There was a clear path laid down: get grades, do internships, polish your CV with moots/research papers and you'll get that nice job. Now when you're out of college, there is no pathway. Things seem so uncertain and taking the plunge is scary. I want to quit but then do what? I realise things are exacerbated right now due to work from home but I think the main point still stands. I want to quit this firm life and maybe leave law altogether but expenditure is a concern and I just don't know what else to reasonably pursue.

I'm sorry if I come across as childish. Hope people can understand what I said and advice. Many thanks.

Hey, so I am someone who believes this. I know internships are a bad analogy, but I have always managed to leave earlier and not stick around just to seem like I care about the internship. But when it becomes a real job, how do I establish to my team that I won't waste time in the office, and will work properly from 10-7 (or whatever), but I will not stay late just because everyone else does? I am asking this seriously, and would be grateful if someone could please help me out. (not saying I will never pull all nighters or that I want to slack. I know how to get work done and see no point in staying late just because everyone else does).

Who teaches you that exactly? I guess it would also depend on the NLU to some extent. I know for a fact that in NLSIU, NALSAR and NUJS, students are all exposed in course of their five years to multiple career opportunities. Which one they would opt for would of course depend upon them, and they can also change their minds after starting, as many do. Even at NUJS, where a sizable number go for law firms at least initially, a considerable number of students also opt for litigation, entrepreneurship, PSUs, regulatory bodies, think tanks, higher studies, judiciary, UPSC etc., either on graduation or shortly thereafter. The same scene is there at NLSIU and NALSAR too, although at NLSIU, on an average fewer opt for law firms at least with the earlier batch size. Not personally sure of the stats from other NLUs, but NLUD would probably reflect similar scenes. Use the five years wisely, and talk to alumni, the good faculty, the visiting faculty etc. You would surely find out one or more things that you might prefer to do over others. Use the internships well instead of spending all of those in law firms. Menon had put in place the range of internships over 5 years for a reason, though most NLU students don't follow that anymore, and therefore seem to be rather confused even after 5 years about what they would really like to do.

Such firms were doing tiktok trends before tiktok made it a tread. Its called staying ahead of whateverthefuck, look it up!

“I'm a savage (Yeah) Classy, bougie, ratchet (Yeah) Sassy, moody, nasty (Hey, hey, yeah) Acting stupid.....” all started by law firms. Megan and Queen B has nothing on them.

Tiktok just copied the firms moods.

Learn when to say no and how to say no. Don't answer calls /emails between 9 PM to 9 AM unless there is an actual emergency.

Don't spend time taking smoke breaks, coffee breaks which are more than 15 minutes.

Be the first one to reach and first one to leave.

Don't feel ashamed to tell your Partner that you are leaving at 7 even if they are still in office.

Do your work and leave. Fraternise during lunch breaks not during work hours.

Hey

So it’s been 4 months since I joined a tier 1 law firm in B&F

I absolutely hate it.

I wanted to know what is a good option outside of this? If say, in house, how long should I stick around in this law firm to be accepted into an in house position and what sort of in house companies should I look to apply at seeing my profile as a B&F lawyer

Thanks

Livelaw, mint, indiacorplaw, spicyip, for Indian matters. For global ones, plenty of industry sources available that you can google for. Vinod Kothari maintains a decent blog for insolvency, compliance etc. Several tier one firms also post useful updates on their websites/newsletters.

Law firms have blogs nowadays - CAM certainly does, Nishith Desai publishes regularly, Mondaq publishes from various firms, India corp law blog, get some Sucheta Dalal also - at the very least more interesting than most others. In newspapers - Livemint, Bloomberg Quint - then your usual ET, Business Standard etc. Big Four also publish useful stuff on legal developments sometimes.

Dont come in! We have been stuck here like its a quicksand. Pretty much every email as ‘urgent’ in it (internal and external). Unless you have want to experience extreme stress and because you cannot yell at clients and colleagues, you take out your misplaced anger in family and friends. You wont have time or headspace to recognize you actions are wrong. Jumping from one late deliverable to another. Offsetting all of the negative by buying some absolutely unnecessary and expensive piece of capitalist product to justify out slogging isnt worth it. Oh! Look at its 1:00 pm on my stupidly expensive watch i wear sitting in my house showing it off to reflection in the mirror and no one else. Instead of having lunch, let me attend that all party weekly call that was scheduled without checking with anyone because people are free during lunch! Why eat when you bill!

Stay the freakierty freak out.

My perspective of this situation may seem quite pessimistic but here it is:
I graduated in law a couple of years ago and spent 1.5 years as an associate in a tier 1 firm, something which remains my biggest regret. That period of 1.5 years was spent with me being generally miserable at work, enduring a sleep deficit (This is common in most law firms), losing touch with real life friends and damaging my mental health. Eventually, i made the decision to quit and joined a small private company albeit taking a 40% pay cut to do so. Now, i work around 50 hours a week(compared to 80-100 that i was previously putting in) and I am generally a lot happier in life now.
So basically I guess it boils down to your priorities in life. If you are purely work/money focused, then you will love life in a big law firm working on the best mandates and making bog money. But if that is not the case, you would have to decide whether the brutal grind is worth it or not.

Run like hell from bosses/ seniors that don't respect you and make you feel small. True mentorship is hard to find but sticking with a bad manager sure isn't going to help. You will be resources to most seniors - like say Manupatra is or beating hearts to populate a diligence room instead of actual human beings - try not to take things personally, you will be interchangeable with any other associate for a period of time.

You will also have to do a lot of drudgery - most teams will be waiting for your arrival with bated breath to delegate all unsavoury work.

Have interests and friends outside of work. Take care of yourself. Remember that the person most invested in your career and growth is eventually yourself - speak up if required, ask for things (of course, back it up with good work).

Just ensure that you're up to date on most things law around you. General Corp and M&A guys typically lose touch with the law since there is so much documentation. Just make sure you spend some time everyday reading about new judgments, cases, laws. Basic knowledge about every field is important as you will soon realize that people will ask you anything. Not being dumbstruck when someone from outside your team talks to you opens up many opportunities in the firm itself. There are enough websites which will give you a daily dose of what's happening in the world of law. Knowing what's happening in courts really helps.

Be Entrepreneurial

Lawyers by nature and by training are risk averse and in most situations would take a conservative option. We extend this often to our careers and that is our biggest mistake.

Take risks, choose a better team over a bigger law firm.

Choose an area of interest/field of law over whatever is in vogue.

Build a network, work on that network, nurture it, feed it and don't wait till you are principal associate or salaried partner to do it, start early, start small but make it a point that each year you know more people and more people value you, than the previous year.

At the end of day, your practice is your practice irrespective of where you are.

Find out about your team from external and neutral people (who don't have an axe to grind or pessimistic in outlook generally) as soon as you can. Reputation in the market, kind of people, work culture, practice area, etc. If you hear negative views mostly, change teams/ firm immediately. It's better to get out early than to get stuck. The more you stay the worse it is likely to get and also likely to effect your mental health.

Also, take your first two years as the building blocks. Work your ass off (not to be read as hanging around in office pointlessly). The knowledge base you'll build in the initial years s will hold you in good stead.

Last point, you are bound to mess up in certain situations. Be sure to communicate to seniors that you're not dumb and will try your best to avoid such mistakes in future. If you can build confidence with your seniors, that's good for your career. Basically, you don't have to be a genius to be a corporate lawyer. Just don't be dumb and learn to figure out what a senior wants. Be curious and eager to learn.

I am a PA at one of the biggies. If I were to restart with all this knowledge, there is one thing I would immediately start doing - finding opportunities to leave the profession and do something else (MBA, business, startup, teaching, anything else).

I am a successful PA (timely promotions, good bonuses, etc.). But I am dead serious. The (unregulated and unchecked) grind is not worth it, not even in terms of money, let alone other meaningful things.

All the hot shot partners, peek into their personal lives (and I mean every single one of them) and you will understand whats wrong. Effectively, be prepared to make your work your wife, parents, home, holiday, everything.

Be punctual, sincere, have a positive cheerful attitude, empathize with everyone, don’t brood over mistakes, be supportive to your peers, don’t laugh at their mistakes, give your best each day rather than regretting you could have done more.
If your life allows you, make work a priority and be as available as possible in the first couple of years.

Never try to give answers which you are guessing / aren’t sure of. Ask for some time, research thoroughly and then answer confidently.

Don’t chase designations (all designations till 15-18 years PQE are meaningless even AP/RP/SP). Don’t chase 20-25% extra salary, find a good team and work hard. Don’t ever chase bonus, you may get a great bonus one year and very little next year, it evens out.

Call out abuse, discrimination, harassment, derogatory behaviour in an intelligent way - whether it happens to you or someone else. No MP/EP has earned the right to do any of this to any lawyer or even any support staff.

Don’t pad your timesheets - they do more harm than good in the long run. Don’t compete with any of your peers. If you do well you will grow to the top and most of your peers are anyway going to quit in due course.

Keep up with the news. Hang out with people outside the law school/ law firm world.
As an A0 you will get - a ton of mindless clerical work + everything else that nobody in the team, higher than you, wants to do. This will leave you with no time for anything else, sometimes nothing more than a few hours of sleep. Especially if you have shitty luck and get a team that works in a way that causes you to burnout. Trust me such teams exist.
All this can lead you to exist in a bubble where there is time for nothing else besides the next deliverable and petty office/ team gossip. You don't even realise how tunnel visioned your life can get.

Read the basics. Practise writing in a clear and concise manner minus the rhetoric. Learn to speed read if you have not already. Familiarise yourself with the regulatory websites, how to navigate those and get the necessary data as quickly as possible. Check the landmark cases and developments in the field if you have already been assigned a team. Very importantly, build physical and mental resolve, as both would be tested once you join. Learn to check in your entitlement before entering workplace.