Khaitan & Co first-year associate and NLIU Bhopal 2020 graduate Devansh Srivastava has passed away early yesterday morning after a cardiac arrest.
Khaitan & Co executive director Amar Sinhji commented:
It is with deep sorrow that we inform about the sad demise of Devansh Srivastava, in the early hours on Monday, 15 March.
He was a first year Associate with our Banking & Finance practice. He was from NLIU (Bhopal) and had joined our Firm as part of our Campus Batch of 2020.
He was on “Work from Home” and hence currently living with his Family at their home town in Gorakhpur (UP).
While we await the exact details from his Family, we have been informed that Devansh suffered from a congenital heart disease, and that he succumbed to a cardiac arrest. He was immediately taken to the hospital by his Parents but could not be revived.
His last rites were performed by his Family at Gorakhpur yesterday.
It is extremely unfortunate and we are deeply saddened by this tragic loss of a young soul. We are in touch with his Family to support them in every possible way. We pray for his soul to rest in peace and for God to give his Family the strength to cope with their immense loss.
We have not been able to confirm further details at this time, though we have been forwarded several, sometimes conflicting pieces of information, including a discussion thread on Legally India.
Sinhji added that any rumours doing the rounds on WhatsApp about the cause of his death were at this time “pure and insensitive speculation”.
He said that an internal prayer meeting would be held for Srivastava at the firm this evening.
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On the other hand, his own firm (with an apparent glorious culture) continued working. He passed away WHILE WORKING FOR THIS FIRM!!
All you people ranting about how hard the work is etc are just being disrespectful to Devansh. Don't make his passing about your drama in life.
Rather than making random 'Captain Obvious' comments like stress negatively impacts health think of how you can change it. Each one of us is sooner or later going to manage other people. Change begins with us.
If the relevant firm is really bothered (hahahaha), let them initiate an independent external inquiry based on facts available on record and present the findings along with evidence (don't give me s*** about confidentiality and privilege - redact whatever is confidential or privileged). Of course that will not happen. A prayer meeting will be all.
Amused how the practitioners of law are so quick to jump to conclusions without evidence or knowledge.
A lot of pain has poured out here.If you think something is dragging down your life,try and get away from it if you can.if not now,make that escape plan.whatever it is,it won't be worth more than your life.MJs words, ring true everywhere everytime.......
Skinhead, deadhead
Everybody, gone bad
Situation, speculation
Everybody, litigation
Beat me, bash me
You can never trash me
Hit me, kick me
You can never get me
All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us
Some things in life they just don't wanna see (Ah)
But if Martin Luther was livin'
He wouldn't let this be, no, no
Skinhead, deadhead (Yeah, yeah)
Everybody's gone bad
Situation, segregation (Woo-hoo)
Everybody, allegation
In the suite on the news
Everybody dog food (Woo-ho)
Kick me, kike me
Don't you wrong or right me
All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us
All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us
If you are so interested in the personal life's of your attorneys, please also look into what personal problems they might have and go out of your way to help them. Pretty sure you cannot stomach that. Sounds preposterous right?.
No sane person would ever compare a public health hazard with a few partying associates.
and get out when your coffers are full.
Loyalty is under appreciated (unless you're a class A suckup/ sycophant who kisses the boots of the master(s) or licks the very ground they walk on) and often taken for granted.
It's all about keeping your equity partners happy and their purses full. Never mind the others because they are.... inconsequential.
Don't these guys realise that they are nothing without their worker bees?
Scantly shall I walk, softly must I tread..
For I tread on the bodies of those who lay down to cover the burning coals!
......having my Jerry McGuire moment!
Look out for a memo in your inboxes!
OM
Time and again, we witness the horrors of the work culture that exists in each of these firms. Some firms, at least acknowledge this by hosting lame ‘mental health seminars’ - the premise of which involves extending some form of release or break from tireless and never-ending hours of work.
Law schools should make it a point to have realistic career guidance sessions, wherein it’s clearly emphasised what it takes to ‘survive’ in a top law firm and that it’s okay to not yearn to work in such an environment and focus on firms which lean more on the learning and growing,
than billing.
Remember, the bottom-line is asking yourself a very simple question (& not the reason): Are you happy? If the answer is in the negative, leave while still you’re young.
Let's feed on the frenzy and get #JusticeForAnonymousComments....
Remember people, the HR is not your friend. Never will be. Don't be naive.
While law firms might preach that they are working towards making the workplace more flexible to give associates comfort, the truth is that the entire culture is toxic and if strong structural changes aren't implemented across the board (i.e one law firm can't make a difference), we're looking ahead at an entire generation of lawyers who will be depressed, anxious and miserable.
The only way I see "work culture" changing is through regulation. Eg. (Literally from the top of my head) a mandatory law firm "body" which has all stakeholders on it, that sets out specific rules for work hours, leaves etc which have to be implemented across the board.
One law firm changing xyz won't bring others in line, and in turn the primary mover firm will also fall back into the old regime because it won't be able to keep up when it comes number et al. A CHANGE IS NEEDED ACROSS THE BOARD.
However, the pessimistic me thinks that Devansh's passing and the circumstances around it will be discussed for a month or two and then all will be forgotten - it'll be "business as usual" again. Public memory is short lived.
I truly hope I'm wrong.
RIP Devansh.
I myself was in a Tier 1 firm where I put on oodles of weight - took a call better to leave. Took a few months off, took a pay cut. Now there is a little time to take care of my health.
I have been posting from time to time that it is better to hear the music before the song finishes. There will be instances of this extremely sad case (my condolences to his parents - I too am a parent) in our fraternity.
This is an underlying epidemic - professional culture in India. There will be issues. Just wait and watch for a few years now. Those who worked during early 2000s, they will be trapped in health problems. The government must sit up and take notice.
There are folks who still will sit in office late hours to earn brownie points and frown upon those who leave on time - the tier 1 partner clearly told me - you leave when I leave. It was best I left him.
www.legallyindia.com/convos/topic/160427-Tips-for-Incoming-Associates-If-you-could-start-again-what-would-you-focus-on-#comments
Its really a sad state of affairs guys. We all (who have been long enough in the grind) know that no law or regulation can tame the zealot firms.
What is needed is strong law firm lawyers' union. Nothing or no-one, but us (law firm lawyers) can change this culture. We need to form a union and put our collective foot down.
As for the current conversation/comments, it might be better to refrain from posting anything without verification (goes for both sides). The least we can do is pay respect to the departed soul and be kind to his family by considering their current situation.
I get a sense from the comments that law firms are to blame and law firms are evil. But law firms are essentially a group of lawyers, all of who are breaking their backs working. So I wonder who is “evil” and who isn’t. Another thing is that freshers coming in want more and more salaries and year end bonuses, which is only possible to pay when firms earn more and more. Is everyone ok to be paid as a engineering graduate (probably 1/5th the salary compared to lawyers). Maybe not - we all joined this profession expecting a certain remuneration yet there’s only criticism of the volume of work. People basically want to get paid a lot for a lot less effort and work. World doesn’t work that way.
I agree we earn obscene salaries compared to our peers in other professions (I work in BigLaw abroad) but that doesn't justify workplace abuse. I would happily take a paycut if it meant having a better life. I am sure many of us would. Sadly, there aren't many options out there that allow for that. Money can be a motivator when you join the profession but overtime it fades. Why do you think so many people leave our profession even before reaching year 7? People burn out, start abusing alcohol, fall grievously ill, get divorced (if they managed to meet someone and cultivate a relationship in the first place) and develop mental illnesses. This profession asks for a lot from you and the people who make it to the top perpetrate the same culture because they have had to sacrifice a lot to get there and so feel everyone should. And god forbid if you want to jump out of the rat race people think you are a loser for doing it. Thank god though some people are seeing the light. Maybe some day I will be able to muster up the courage too instead of being annualised at 2800 billable hours. Making all this sound okay just cause we earn a lot is completely misleading the argument and blaming someone else for another's deeds. And trust me our profession certainly does not pay enough for the amount of sacrifices we make. Besides if hard work was really correlated to money then the factory workers should be making way more than us but sadly it is not, but that is a separate argument altogether.
We should not judge by whatsapp rumours but we can at least expect some official inquiry on the part of the employer to understand what happened, and build an environment where this never happens again. Remember a child has died today.
Even If Khaitan didn't want to declare a holiday ,at least they could have observed silence for few minutes or should have done something to show a bit of remorse .Such insensitive attitude is very shameful.
Leaving all this aside I Feel extremely sorry for Devansh.The boy came from a middle class family form a small town of Gorakhpur and managed though the law school ,got a job and finally when the time actually came to reap the benefits of his hardwork he had to leave the world .RIP Devansh .Left too soon
While the comment section deliberates on whether or not the HR is to blame, if you are working in a law firm, please pause to note that his young life has been cut short abruptly while stretching himself thin to meet with the demands of work. Be sensitive to the people around you. If that email can wait till tomorrow, don't hype urgency / all work is deliverable yesterday attitude. Your job is your job and livelihood, not a matter of life and death for the planet. People's health, wellbeing matters. Belittling your team will not motivate them or improve their work product.
Irrespective of whether this young individual had a prior heart condition or not - ask yourselves, why are associates and other lawyers working 16 hour days, and through the nights? Are the firm's billables that critical that you're willing to completely sacrifice your mental and physical well being? Don't underestimate the toll that such a skewed work-life balance will have on your professional and personal lives.
Please look after your yourselves. Like someone had said, the firm won't. Cliched as it may sound, you only have one life. Make the most of it.
While you'll obviously want to earn money to look after your needs, don't let it come at such a big price. Over the past few years, young partners in their 40s and 50s have passed due to health issues, and in some instances around the world, have also passed by suicide. Corporate lawyers really need to recalibrate and understand how broken their current systems are.
Young lawyers may or may not have this perspective because they're in the throes of a rat race where they feel the need to compete with their peers and colleagues. Senior managements at firms must really put in some conscious effort to try and help maintain a better work-life balance.
The assumption that law firms are bad because of "overwork" and "pressure" is just so lazy. Work comes and goes in phases and one of the reasons lawyers get paid so well is the massive comprise that they have to make at the personal front to be successful in this field. Doctors study for 15-16 hours well into their 30s to even establish themselves. Highly qualified management professionals work 16-18 hours at entry level jobs, and lawyers are no different.
The compromise is real and law firms should do the best they can to make the transition from 5-6 hour study days in campus to the gruelling professional services environment, but it's always going to be a transition.
Asking for firms to limit work to 10 hour days/ declare holidays etc is just not practical. Every lawyer has a choice to leave the law firm job and work free lance, or litigate or work in the judiciary - each of which will have its own challenges. No one is being forced to work in a law firm. I
Everybody wants a job paying Rs 1 lakh+ a month (usually more)
But these same people want to work like a sarkaari job from 11 am to 5 pm, weekends off, 30 days leave, assured promotion, bonus, perks. Only thing missing is a lal-batti car.
Brother, these two cannot go together. If you want sarkaari naukri go "crack" an exam like UPSC and become a Indian Defence Accounts Service Officer (so prestigious). Work to your mind's delight and leave at 4 pm after taking 10-15 breaks for chai-paani throughout the day. And be content with Rs 40 thousand a month.
Or else if you want money be prepared to grind it out with 60 hour weeks.
I sometimes wish law firms would give a choice of pay , let's see what these bleeding hearts would choose.
It's a tragedy this young lawyer died so suddenly. But dont blame it on law firms and their culture. [...]
Welcome all. We are calling this the Expectation Setting session because our HR team spent their evening yesterday coming up with that name.
This session will tell you all you need to know about becoming a corporate lawyer in India. And some more.
Let’s start with the three key skills. Attention to detail. Proactivity. And, most importantly, availability.
If you consistently deliver in all three departments, then you will eventually realise that most cherished dream of becoming a corporate partner in a tier 1 law firm. The big bucks. The fancy suit. The business class ticket (sorry, that’s pre-coronavirus).
Other legal skills? No, those are not relevant for this job. Sure, you can tell people that you are a “lawyer”, but within a few years, you will be found out. No relative is going to call you if they decide to sue their builder. No non-lawyer friend will be interested in your thoughts on the terms of their ESOPs or their new lease agreement. And let’s not even talk about criminal matters, as you will spend most of your life being scared to even talk to cops.
Drafting? Sure, that obviously requires a lot of skill. But corporate lawyer drafting is a lot like building Lego blocks that come with an instruction manual. An excellent storyline for a sadistic short-film can involve a client asking a corporate partner to draft a new agreement for him and then taking away his precedents and PLC subscription!
Negotiation? Nope. The best M&A lawyers in India would gladly let their mothers negotiate their most important deals. Please remember that real negotiation is done by real business people (your clients, that is) and sometimes investment bankers will chip in with some nugget they remember from B-school. At best, you will be asked to “advise” on the market practice for something like capped versus uncapped indemnities.
Now that we have covered the “skills” aspect, let’s discuss some of the other things that will matter.
Pick a fake accent. South Bombay is obviously the safest choice. And if you are lucky to work with someone who’s had a stint abroad, you will also have the options of New York and London (RP not Cockney).
Follow Rotten Tomatoes and not IMDB. Follow tennis but aspire to follow golf. Learn to play golf.
Mask your love for your regional cuisine and talk loudly about how you can never have enough truffle (actually you can, because that stuff is expensive).
Get a slick, tailored suit. It will be useless in a meeting with a startup client, where you will be the only douche wearing one or in a meeting with a publicly listed client, where it will be the cheapest one, but for all other clients, you can pretend you are Harvey Specter. Also, as far as TV references go, your best shot is to become someone like Gerri from Succession, so please erase all your Mike Ross and Alan Shore fantasies.
Why do this job then? For the money, baba! Are you telling me there is no difference between a regular plumber with fixed working hours and a premium plumber in a posh, gated complex who can be asked to come and fix the leaking tap at 3 am?? Are you really telling me that??
And for the initial years of your career, you will out-earn your school topper who went the traditional IIT-IIM route. Sure, eventually she will have a bigger house and her kids will go to a better school, but so what? At least you will be able to look back at your Insta post from Dubrovnik when she was taking selfies in Matheran and it will all seem worth it then.
So, welcome aboard everyone! The ship analogy is not meant to be taken seriously; one stinker from a client and your captain will personally toss you off the boat…..
And please don’t forget to fill out the medical disclosure forms. We have started accepting these early. Some of you may notice that the template is the same as those signed when going bungee jumping, but there was nothing on PLC and I had saved this when I went to New Zealand last year.
Ppl using this incident to malign seniors, PAs, partners and law firms.
Physical and mental health is definitely a matter of concern- but it is also a matter of choice. In last two decades, corporate law has become a favourite of students as they hear about the big pay packages offered. Most don’t join this profession for love of law or the profession. lets be hones- its money! Also may be there are cases who couldn’t crack IIt exams or managed to get sufficient % to get through top colleges of DU etc.
So yes, its a choice you have made and as somebody also mentioned on this thread, do you know how the most nerdiest of students who take up medical profession have to go through without sleeping for days?- Every profession has its challenges!!!
Its very easy to blame the law firm- just its always easy to blame the car driver in an accident - no matter the person who got hit was a J walker and then the whole world surrounds the car driver and starts abusing him. I think most of the ppl commenting on the thread are lawyers - so lets not be the mob who has nothing better to do but abuse the driver. Because if one thing you should know is that your job is to find solutions!
If anyone of you go independent and has to get a client and bring business to earn a livelihood - will you go meet the client and say - “i will work only 8 hours a day and no work on weekend and i want top dollar billing for this” - Ofcourse not! Coz you know you wont get that client if you say something like that! You join law firms as they bring you business and give you salary. And to get you business partners have to go out and get work and commit to clients. On top of that train juniors, fix mistakes, take blame etc etc!
Yes- we need to probably change the mind set of
Ppl and client and corporate world. But then i guess there has to be a change in the entire system. Each and every law firm had to change not only tier 1. I have worked with a tier 3, tier 2 and a tier 1 law firm - i have seen how tier 3 law firms are ready to take on work at 1/4th price for a matter than what it should actually be charging! This is how pressure gets created.
Of course if you are a partner or a senior and under a lot of pressure- you shouldn’t be a jerk and pass on stress to juniors- that is the training we need to give. But juniors need to be given training to be accountable as well! This is something every organisation should work on not only law firms. Please do not forget that partners and seniors also face health issues and family life issues- so blame game and endless ranting is not the solution. It just shows wrong attitude and a divide in ideology which is way more harmful and sad!
While you are pointing out issues on the post, you seem to be having no objection to other posts which have no elements of sadness or pain but pure agenda against the law firms and seniors.
This reflects the issue in the system- everyone wants what they like. The whole talk about empathy has to be a two way road my friend!
Quoting some of the things you've written (and not out of context) - "Physical and mental health is definitely a matter of concern- but it is also a matter of choice", "...the most nerdiest of students who take up medical profession have to go through without sleeping for days?- Every profession has its challenges!!!", "But juniors need to be given training to be accountable as well!" and the stupid analogy of a car driver hitting a jay walker, just wow!
I work in a Magic Circle firm - been almost 5 years now. Graduated from one of the law schools in India and was lucky enough to secure a spot. As you'll appreciate, we too have unrealistic deadlines and find ourselves at the deep end sometimes all on our own. But from the stories and the busyness levels that I hear from my friends / batchmates who are working at Indian firms, this gives me chills. Not because of the "challenges", but because of two reasons - (i) stupidity of seniors / partners (think I am being kind to term it "stupidity"); and (ii) greed.
Of course it's very difficult to push back to a client when they need something by "x" time. Barring a few rare occasions (when my partner simply told the client you can't get a good work output within the proposed timeframe...), we mostly stick to the deadlines as well. So, yes, I give you that point and other issues you raise in your comment. Coming to "solutions" that you keep ranting about, do you really don't know how to fix it? Let me help you:
1) Hire more people. Will hurt your profits, right? Ties up to my point above re "greed". One of the India practice heads of a MC firm once jokingly (but true) told me that the take home equity of the Managing Partner / top guys of elite 6 - 8 firms easily trumps what the highest billing partner in his/her firm makes. That's in simple £££ terms and not including any Purchasing Power Parity nuance in the picture.
2) Be grateful to juniors for all-nighters. When we have consistent periods of busyness and something huge gets signed/closed, our partners ask us to take the rest of the day off (and sometimes the next day as well). Not as holidays, but as token of thanks. Try to speak to your colleague partners or seniors in other deals to see if that's possible immediately as there are other deal commitments but if not, the junior should be given some rest at first available opportunity. It helps, trust me.
3) Don't shout, don't demean and don't do the same toxic things that happened to you. Instead try to speak / explain / understand why the error happened. If you see there is effort + poor soul is trapped in constant work, then it's obvious the likelihood of making mistakes will shoot up. In that event, it's not his/her mistake - it's the firm's culture that's responsible.
4) If you do (1), (2) and (3) above, you are likely to hold onto talent that you've developed. People in your team would feel they are respected for their hard work and would be happier even with crazy hours. Associates will feel ownership of work and the work output, in my view, will be much better. You'll probably offset costs of more fee earners in your team by effectively dealing with the issue of attrition. The driving / motivating factor to work hard should never be the "fear" of being fired or unemployment, which I think is the sad reality.
I think it's about time to reflect. I know this sounds all too idealistic by Indian law firms' standard and practices, but if any one senior / partner takes cue from the above I'll be very happy.
Rest in peace, Devansh.
H
It is a crime if someone/ the systems on which the law firm operates led to the death of this poor boy. It's not "unfortunate" or a "tragedy".
It is also a crime to discriminate against a person because of their medical condition.
Stop justifying criminal behaviour as the price you pay for the money you earn.
Surely Khaitan need to provide some answers ( first step being to verify this information)?
Even the gang on this thread from the "You get paid money so suck it up" school of thought will agree I am hoping?
RIP Devansh.
www.legallyindia.com/in-house-counsel/law-firms-dont-add-value-says-gc-20130926-4003
"While Bharucha evaded all questions on the exact reason for the split with Amarchand, a piece written by a former Amarchand employee, Ashwin Mathew, titled “Ramblings of a former Amarchand Associate”, throws up some interesting clues. “Cyril has vision but does not have the administrative capabilities to implement them. MP Bharucha has the administrative capabilities, but cannot work with Cyril since their working styles are totally different,” he had written in 2006.
he was a close friend, from my school, we gave Clat together and I possibly wouldn't have known about the exam/written it, if not for him
he definitely was under a lot of stress due to the work culture, hours and the general treatment meted out regularly
I don't think if it would be fair to blame it on work culture at the firm, since he had a congenital heart disease which her mother had also succumbed to years ago and there were other factors too
but I met him a number of times the last fortnight, and the only thing he would be stressed about throughout was the work, the attitude of superiors, and being made to feel inadequate consistently..even the last conversation we had was on the same lines
wherever anyone is working guys, please prioritize yourself, your wellbeing, and please definitely don't put your self worth at the assessment of your employers/anyone else. With all this said, he was in really bad shape days before, but still would think a hundred times before applying for a leave on medical grounds just cause he needed to buckle up because "the team is forming a perception about you which is hard to change".."for future references, there is only one turnaround time for this team, ASAP".."for fuck's sake will you send the fucking file I asked for an hour ago".
Hope kian and team have the balls to publish this. And Khaitan has the brains to investigate this.
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