We want LI to be one of the friendliest places on the internet, where lawyers and law students help each other with their career related queries and occasionally discuss other stuff that might affect their lives too. In other words:
1. Be kind, respectful and helpful to each other.
2. Be bona fide, truthful, genuine and curious.
3. Assume the best intention of others.
Therefore, in using the site, you must agree to do your best to uphold these community guidelines.
Note that what you find here is written and moderated by anonymous people on the internet.
Therefore everything you read here is very likely unverified, rumour, speculation and/or downright false.
In continuing to read anything here, you must therefore agree not to take anything you read here as factual and that you will exercise due caution, diligence and common sense before acting on any information you may come across here.
You also agree to report any inaccurate or malicious comments with the buttons. Moderators take action within 24 hours, as required and appropriate under law.
Our full terms and conditions apply too.
Do you solemnly agree to all of the above?
I have been struggling with work since start. I'm not able to complete the task in given time. I make small mistakes which even I feel embarassed of when senior points out. I can't really remember clause wise details, Even after reading the agreement. It's like seeing the whole thing again. I am tired of getting my work discarded because it's not upto the mark. I was told to leave by my partner in previous firm after which I applied at my current place and landed a well paying job. I'm good enough for interviews and leaving good first impression. It's the same circle again within 2 months of joining, except I am getting shouted at and humiliated here. I don't feel happy to work in general anywhere. I feel I'm not made for this and I should quit altogether law.
The problem is I don't have a backup. I come from lower middle class family. As of now I earn more than my father do. But this will not sustain, I will be either removed or my mental health will deteriorate so much that I call quit. I don't know what to do.
One option I see is going in-house in a bank/nbfc. I feel it would be manageable but I have never interned or spoke with someone who works in-house, so idk. I am also worried about career trajectory. Since I don't have any wealth, will I be able to earn enough to afford a house, car and good life in general. I'm worried about my future. What if I suck at in-house too? Am I good at anything? I don't know what can I do. I have already spent 6 years studying and working in law and don't have comfort to learn and earn anything afresh. Can anybody who have been at my cross-road please guide me since I can't worry my family with this and friends won't have any answer.
Only after this you move to things like private placement, debentures, s.179, s.180, s.185, s.186. Given each of this a couple of days. While its a pain staking process and you could still be bombarded with brutal comments, trust me you're making progress.
Once done with this, start with transaction documents, every day spend 15-20 mins on just one clause of a DTD/FA, as basic as the array of parties and recitals, why is the successor added, why do we have permitted assigns, why the interpretation clause, why the business day convention.
Once you get to the operative clauses, spend maybe half an hour daily on let's say covenant to pay, security clause, type of each security and the basics you've covered in the para above will all start making sense.
When it comes to drafting, something I've started recently is maintain an excel sheet with a clause bank of sorts. Add even the most horribly seen clause in the horribly drafted base drafts of banks and financial institutions. Gradually this will help you when you're marking up docs so identify the critical issues and the comments. Spend some time drafting and maybe rehearsing drafting when you see something of this world. You'll I'm sure notice that gradually, you start remembering the transaction documents because fundamentally every fucking B&F deal is the SAME.
Something that helped on the job is ChatGPT to break down concepts to you like a five year old using examples like candies and piggy banks etc. Easier to understand the building block and such the retention is a lot better and you can apply it using he financing parlance.
Most most UNDERRATED, and this goes unnoticed, eat proper meals, hydrate, look after yourself. If you're depleted, your absorbing nothing else other than the trauma at work. Even if it means having a slice of bread and coffee as breakfast, have it. If you run on zero, nothing you do is going to make you a better professional.
And friend, depending on the T1, its not the end of the world. There are just not enough B&F associates to do even the basic jobs, no gloating but they need you as much as you need them. Tattoo this to your head and your pressures outside of work will ease up so you can regain your focus.
Everything said above, please remember, give yourself 6 months at least. This is not a month long exercise. I'm seeing some progress in my work after about 3 months.
Hope this helps. All the best. And if your partners are mauling you outside the purview of professional boundaries, get up and fuck them up and leave. There is no amount of money in this world that would make parents happy if it comes at the cost of their child being hauled everyday. Parents can be surprisingly understanding.
I am also suffering from lonliness. I fear this coupled with constant anxiety will lead to weak heart condition, migraine, etc.
My situation makes me sad as I one of those who constantly spend time in fitness (gym, running and general constant masti mood). However, this is my battle to fight.
The issues you have pointed out are common to many advocates when they are starting out. Attention to detail is a skill you acquire over a period of time, and it can be developed to overcome these issues. May I recommend the following:
First, please find time to read. The more you read, the more accustomed you become to spotting flaws and looking for details. Reading agreements and legal pleadings does not count in this category. While it is important to do as much work as you can in your area of interest, and your reading speed will improve over time, reading other material develops this skill much faster.
Second, may I also suggest that you read Tony Buzan's books on speed reading and mind mapping. If you find it hard to concentrate or have difficulty reading, you can also use AI tools these days to turn books and other content into podcasts.
Generally, don't get disheartened, because perseverance is an important skill. Personally speaking, I understand where you are coming from, because I came from a similar background. I an a partner at a tier 1 firm now, but I also started out facing these issues. I come from humble beginnings too, and these things simply happen. What helps in the long run is reading more, persevering, and not giving up. One principle I have always followed is that no matter what, no one can outwork you, and I have built that into my routine. Please take heart and carry on.
I am 30 (and probably a fair bit older than you). I work as a PA at a Tier 1 firm and graduated from what many would call the best law school in the country. I am sharing that only as context because my younger brother, who is around your age, asked me to respond here.
First of all, start counting your wins and stop cutting yourself short.
It is not easy to make it to a Tier 1 firm without merit. Maybe you are not a 100/100, but you are certainly not a 0 either. If you have made it this far, you are probably at least a 70/100. Give yourself some credit for that.
Secondly, take criticism where it is constructive.
I am not saying you should dismiss everything as "not my problem." In my view, a matter is often more an A0's responsibility than that of the partner leading it. Talk to an A3, SA, or PA in your team. Seek guidance. There is absolutely no shame in doing that.
Some people can be intimidating. Some may not care. But there are also people who genuinely want you to thrive, not just survive. They can be difficult to find, but they do exist.
And unlike what someone here has suggested, none of the work we do, whether in M&A, PE, Banking & Finance, or anything else, is taught in law school. Most of it is learned on the job.
A lot of us have cried in office washrooms after being yelled at. I have generally been decent at my job, but there have been days when I was appreciated in the first half of the day for doing great work and reprimanded in the second half for reasons I still disagree with.
At your stage, it is often difficult to tell whether you genuinely messed up or whether the person on the other side simply did not have the patience. Sometimes it is a bit of both. With demanding clients and impossible timelines, it takes a very regulated person to remain calm. Unfortunately, law firms are not exactly overflowing with such people.
TL;DR: Talk to people who can guide you. Just do not become overly dependent on them.
Thirdly, preparedness leads to confidence.
You are new and may not fully understand what a DD is, why it is done, or what people are looking for. Sit with a few DD reports. One of the best things about being at a Tier 1 firm is that the repository is usually excellent.
Read key issues reports. Read full vendor DD reports. Go through internal presentations. Build your understanding. Ask yourself basic questions. Why is everyone fighting over that indemnity clause? Why does this risk matter? Where does it show up in a transaction?
ChatGPT helps as well. There are primers available on almost every topic under the sun. Nobody can hand you a complete tracker of everything you need to know, but you can gradually build one for yourself.
I also really appreciated the first pinned comment on this thread. And KCO has some excellent videos on YouTube.
Fourthly, loneliness will only make everything worse.
Talk to your parents every day if you can. Hopefully they are supportive.
Many of us, especially those from lower middle-class families, grow up feeling like we are carrying a massive burden on our shoulders. More often than not, that burden exists largely in our heads.
Ask for help.
Ask your parents to visit. Meet your friends whenever possible. Make friends at the gym. Make friends within your team.
All you can do is keep trying. The rest is for life to decide.
Fifthly, get a therapist if you think you need one.
Only you can make that call. There is no shame in it.
Sixth, in-house is not as easy as people often make it sound, especially if you want to keep growing and avoid stagnating.
That said, if moving in-house is what you genuinely want, I would be happy for you to make that move. Just make sure it is not coming purely from a place of escape.
People often portray law firms as some ultimate test of toughness. Sometimes they are. But this is your life. You get to decide what is worth your effort and what is not.
And choosing something else is not running away. It is simply choosing a different path.
Lastly, you are still very young.
I do not mean that in a patronizing way.
A lot of us have felt this pressure. A lot of us have stumbled, struggled, cried, doubted ourselves, and eventually found ways to cope.
You will too.
I’ve had experience working on ▮▮▮.
And yet, despite having this experience, I’m currently struggling to find another job. I had to resign from my previous startup role while dealing with [health] ▮▮▮, and the job search has honestly been BRUTAL, not to mention just like a tier-1 firm, I many times worked overtime even in a startup, my manager REFUSED to teach me ANY work, with lots of trial and error I had to figure out everything on my own, I was shouted at even when it was not my mistake because extreme politics and favoritism.
So while I obviously can’t tell you whether you should stay in Tier 1 or move in-house, I just wanted to say that the position you’re in is genuinely something many people, including me, would be grateful to have. It’s very easy to look at our own struggles and forget that the same position may be someone else’s goal.
I really hope things get better for you, whether that means figuring out how to make your current role work or eventually finding a path that suits you better. And please don’t equate struggling in one particular work environment with not being good at law altogether, pretty sure you have more knowledge in banking and finance than you give yourself credit for.
● Please don’t give up on yourself. Self-doubt took over me too, and there were times I genuinely wondered whether I was good enough for this profession.
● Take it one day at a time. Everyone has a different learning curve. Some people take off immediately; some of us are diesel engines, we take a little longer to get going, but once we do, we’re just fine.
● Don’t compare yourself with the superstars around you. I’m still at the same firm, now as a partner, and I was offered partnership at the same time as peers whom I always thought were miles ahead of me. I could never have imagined that during my bad phase.
● Find a patient mentor. Someone who believes in you, teaches you without judging you and gives you room to make mistakes and grow.
● Be a little kinder to yourself. Make time for things and people that make you happy. Your job is important, but it isn’t your entire identity.
Give yourself some time. Keep learning, keep showing up, and trust that this phase will pass. Things almost always get so much better than they seem right now.
I am the same 30 yr old who ended up giving too much gyan. If you haven't already, scout for 30 partners who do or are related to the work you have done. Don't restrict to T1 pleasd. Figure linkedin and emails. Cold email and message. If you don't get replies, keep sending mails every 4th day (obviously make it look like follow up). This has helped some of the folks I know. Cover letter should be strong.