We want LI to be one of the friendliest places on the internet, where lawyers and law students help each other with their career related queries and occasionally discuss other stuff that might affect their lives too. In other words:
1. Be kind, respectful and helpful to each other.
2. Be bona fide, truthful, genuine and curious.
3. Assume the best intention of others.
Therefore, in using the site, you must agree to do your best to uphold these community guidelines.
Note that what you find here is written and moderated by anonymous people on the internet.
Therefore everything you read here is very likely unverified, rumour, speculation and/or downright false.
In continuing to read anything here, you must therefore agree not to take anything you read here as factual and that you will exercise due caution, diligence and common sense before acting on any information you may come across here.
You also agree to report any inaccurate or malicious comments with the buttons. Moderators take action within 24 hours, as required and appropriate under law.
Our full terms and conditions apply too.
Do you solemnly agree to all of the above?
but we love wfh
(coming from a pov of a commercial lawyer)
At first instance, when it comes to "deadlines" over "personal time" there is nothing other than abstract numbers on financial statements that is at stake. Weather it be a commercial dispute, an ipo, tax dispute, ip infringement etc. we are dealing with things that can actually wait.
Simultaneously, there's this reality of competition! If I as a counsel don't act upon it immediately, (or my client forgoes the first mover advantage) somebody else will, and as a consequence I (we) lose out.
Now when your criticism is targeted towards gen z (or any other lawyer who struggles to reconcile the dichotomy) either you justify why it's better to sacrifice the things that actually matter over superficial benefits of some corporate demand, or we bow down to the paradigm and just agree to your timeline just because it's how things are run (which will definitely lead to resistance)
As someone few years senior, here are my tips for you:
1. Please do not rescue your juniors and do their work. If you do that, it is a disservice to both you and them. You will end up doing their work while not getting paid for it, and they will not learn and grow because they will realize they won't have to do much as you will eventually do their job.
2. Treat associates as adults. Give them work without babying them or judgements or admonishment. Explain their job and when its due. If the work product is not proper or not in time, please formally inform them and also formally report them to higher ups. Stop behaving like a parent, associates are not your kids.
3. If they refuse to take work, report to your partner and ask for a change of resource or ask your partner to speak to them. But before you do, please record the refusal over email.
4. When you have poor performers, please formally point them out to partners. Record what are they suffering with or what their short comings are. Lot of times SAs/PAs expect that partners know but do not interfere with poor performers. The truth is that partners hardly know about these well enough. Formally provide negative feedback (also positive feedback, but that is not under discussion here) so the system can take care of the issues.
5. Last but not the least, please take time to explain associates what their job entails and what to expect. Their expectations may be tied to normal 5-9 jobs which they have seen their parents or relatives do.
Do the above, and you will see a hell lot of difference.
There will always be kids who will not perform despite all. Frustrate them, so they eventually quit. While it may sound harsh, its the best outcome for everyone. If you keep poor performers, you will struggle, your team will struggle, good performers in your team will be demoralized as they will feel they can get away with doing less work - which is unfortunately never the case, and for the poor performing candidate will be able to get away from this law firm hell hole and get into something else where they can excel and enjoy.
However, whatever you do, don't be a jackass. While you must treat juniors like an adult, be an adult yourself. Do not behave with people like a dictator / sadist. Don't ask people to do something over a weekend which you will not see before next Wednesday. Do not ask juniors to stay back till 11 PM so you can make him sit next to you while you review their work product document. The examples are not exhaustive.
In my experience, if you behave with people like an adult, most respond well.
The above is the guide for people who are struggling with juniors. Experienced leaders inspire their team enough and may not need the above.
Secondly, you're forgetting K&E happens to lack WLB but tops firms list. No one likes excess work, despite whatever may be your beliefs.
And lastly, since you like all the boundaries etc, why do you get worked up when the shoe is on other foot, say the food delivery is late (since the delivery person chose to drive safe and slow, instead of getting all antsy about delivering you your parcel immediately) or thousand other such cases. Why you start ranting in any forum you can find in such cases? Look in mirror my friend.
1. We grew up in a once-in-a-generation crisis, the COVID-19 pandemic, which, in turn, led to a second (ongoing) crisis in peoples' mental health? Why don't you do something about that?
2. We might just not want our lives constantly at the mersy of our clients and seniors? Might we just be better at boundaries. Look at how Legal Cheak in Britain rates law firms. Firms in the west which have your mentality end up paying for it. Kirkland & Ellis, for example, has one of the worst ratings of all in Work-Life Balance (WLB) category. Do you think we may, for various reasons, developed our own minds at an earlier age, and no longer want to work for organisations who are willing to have good values around social mobility, WLB etc?
TikTok and wokeness has ruined this generation and addled their brains. Props to Australia for at least trying to protect Gen Alpha by banning social media for teens.
Why are you even hiring or considering candidates who are like this? I can assure you, people like me and several others are wiling to pull all nighters even in unpaid internships, and you go ahead and shortlist the rankers. Have you ever thought about helping people with such qualities secure jobs in your team? Maybe you would have different outcomes.
Par hume to internship hi nhi milte, PPO chodo. Sirf top 15 rankers ko lete hai, god forbid you had a medical issue and lost out on 10 marks in an exam.
I hope, that rather than ranting nonsense like girls do about their red flag exes on Instagram, you could be more rational and look for skills you actually want in new candidates. And dont say only the partner has the whims, no, you do too, you can push for people, you just choose not to.
It is the most "me me" generation. (Pun intended)
This lot grew up conditioned by the internet. It is starting to show in awful ways.
Not just here. Globally.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/trending/gen-z-rude-difficult-to-work-with-womans-post-sparks-debate-internet-says-stereotyping-101733208287894.html
https://www.generationtechblog.com/p/gen-z-really-does-have-a-work-ethic
Law firms were never easy, will never be. I love my weekends and my free time. Nobody wants you to work more than what is needed. But if, god forbid, I assign work post 7 PM (maybe a half an hour deliverable) the juniors have straight up refused to do it. None of the new kids on the block understand what a client facing industry requires you to do. They believe deliverables done in an hour (as the we prepared for our exams in law school) will have the same quality.
I’ve been frustrated with kids and have been doing their job myself. Thoughts?
Would like to hear the opinion of the law school kids too.