Shocking news of death of a young CA at EY who sacrificed weekends and used to work late nights regularly for work.

To law firms/lawyers (who are in a hiring position) and seeing this thread- please look after your young colleagues and don’t have such unreasonable expectations.

To us youngsters- let’s quit if such a situation comes. No money/career growth can replace health and family/personal time.

When the value of education is measured in terms of LPA and ROI, toxic work culture is a consequence of that. When state NLUs are put into "tiers" based on such non-sensical parameters it also promotes (albeit indirectly) the toxic work culture. There are countless discussion threads on this platform on salaries, LPA, and ROI.

Re your point about HR, no doubt, HR is the most reviled department of a company. And the absolute bottom-ranking MBA grads from tier 3 institutes go into the HR field because of the bad reputation and toxicity associated with HR. However, remember that HR is merely a pawn in the hands of management, so the real target of our hate should be management rather than HR. It’s like blaming Voldemort‘s followers instead of Voldemort himself.

It's really up to the associates honestly, not the partners or management to care. I don't think we have a healthy peer environment as well in law firms. The typical corporate law firm environment is set up to follow the rules or bend them, not break them. Thus, the average employee accepts "the process" rather than questioning the status quo. Most of our decisions are governed by well-defined institutional arrangements with pre-specified obligations and rights and we just go about our day without questioning the norm

Honestly, only with the help of the masses can this change. The word 'Rebel' can sound very criminal or wrong in nature, but a "rebel" can be someone who "breaks rules that should be broken." Rebels go against the grain - the norm - the standard - to inspire positive change in professional settings as well as in their personal lives.

In other countries, there are laws that protect employees from being overburdened, such as regulations that prevent employers from requiring overtime work, contacting employees beyond office hours, or expecting them to work on weekends (e.g., the “Right to Disconnect” laws in France, Kenya, Australia, and Spain). In contrast, the glorification of hustle culture in India is troubling, as it often leads to unnatural expectations and burnout for employees. This issue needs serious attention and reform. But what can we expect when there are reputable billionaires like Mr. Narayanmurthy with outdated perspectives on hustle culture. About time we strengthen and make our labour laws stricter, for employee’s benefit rather than for the employer.

lol ! you really think people care about laws. Employment lawyer here, working hours are capped till 8-9 hours for all employees (depending on the state / factory), subject to payment of overtime, employees can at max be required to work 12 hours in a day. But guess what ? no one cares, most employers just don't record extra hours so worked.

Unless, we unionise and are more aggressive in demanding their enforcement, nothing will change.

I think you are talking about Shops and Establishment Act, but since you are emp lawyer wanted to know whether these big tech companies, banks, big4 etc. are exempted from this Act. How can somebody say to work 70 hours a week if the laws are applicable to Infosys and other firms as well. I once checked Shops and Establishment Act of the state and I think nobody gives a heck about these days. I am saying these days because there was a thing like overtime payment etc during our parents generation even for good corporate companies. Now that system doesn't exist it seems. Even the "employees" these days work long hours and not paid overtime wage per hour. I am assuming there would be some sort of exemption. Hard to believe that big MNCs defy laws regarding work hours like Indian run companies. They come from a land where rule of law is respected.

I woke up at 9AM yesterday after sleeping at 6 AM. Working since 10 AM yesterday, with at max 90 mins break, and now it's 5 in the morning when I close my laptop. Calculate my work hours. And it's not just my story, there are hundreds of lawyers who go through this in a regular basis, and trust me, NOT EVEN A SINGLE SOUL CARES. You raise your voice and you are shown the door

While this is no doubt very sad, can we be sure that the girl’s heart attack was induced by stress? We have recently seen NLU students die of heart attacks because of conditions existing since birth. Can we be sure that this was NOT the case here? I am not ruling out stress, just asking a very obvious question as a lawyer as we need to assess facts objectively.

A close friend worked in tier 1 everyday till 8 am next morning and ultimately he developed major health issues compelling him to slow down. While his partner let him continue with the team and take it easy, they hired someone else to handle all the cream work which my friend was handling and also gave the new hire a team so that the new hire does not meet the same fate as my friend. My friend kept getting very bad treatment for no longer being

the hard worker in the team and for prioritising his health and his team members would make fun of him too. Ultimately my friend had to leave the firm and join another firm with better work culture where he is doing well. Moral of the story is that the boss who is responsible for your degrading health will replace you immediately once he realises you cannot slog in order to make the boss richer. *Genders changed for confidentiality reasons

Disclaimer - Cap marks rant.

Dunno much about other practices, but cap marks teams, some more than others, glorify overwork with motivating filing messages/posts, when you haven't even been able to sleep, bathe and function normally. Ofc they say take the day off, but the partner/senior with his next deal filing is already riling around you. All things seem to be working against the practice - it is overregulated, clients are pushy and completely unreasonable (but again they don't know how our partners run an understaffed ship so don't blame them completely), spineless partners pretending to have their shit in place and taking in more work than they can handle all the while their team has no management and structure, and next to nil PAs and SAs. And some of them can't even be bothered to read emails and delegate work properly. Maybe it's just my team though.

Typical scenes in tier 1 law firms- lawyers from other cities come to tier 1 law with high hopes leaving their ageing parents alone. These lawyers live alone or with similar other lawyers on rent. They pay very high rent but are in office till 3 am or 4 am almost everyday. They don’t save any money and also ruin their health. When they see other lawyers from different backgrounds wanting to go home on time to spend time with their families or spouses, they call these other lawyers lazy or not very ambitious or not hard working. The whole law firm culture is meant for people who don’t have a life or family and don’t mind risking their health for very little money.

To all the junior associates here, what do you expect a partner to do when a client demands draft to be turned around overnight?

Partner can say no but then there is risk of client to engage another law firm for next assignment. Law firm loses business which impacts profitability and as a result less increment/bonus. Will junior associates be fine with that?

Other option is to hire 3 lawyers instead of 1 and divide the workload. This will also mean salary being 1/3rd of what currently the 1 lawyer earns. Again, will junior associates be fine with that?

An ex-T1 employee here. I worked in a T1 firm, with a decent team, in a relatively non-toxic office, however I was not able to manage the increasing workload and my recurring health problems. After working for the just the first few months, I became severely ill, and my worsening health started affecting my mental health as well. It reached a point where I was not able to work or even for that matter live a normal life anymore. I spoke with my parents and they were generous enough to support me at this point, both morally and financially. I decided to resign and move back to my home town. Now I work in a chamber here, I stay with my family. Yes, I get paid less, and you don't have the fancy AC office and tier 1 lifestyle, but guess what, I have never been happier. I love my current job, I make enough money for myself, and I get to spend time with my family. My health improved significantly, and now I feel good. I appear regularly in court and I am doing well at work. I am confident that in a few years I can become independent. Now, I am not saying all litigating chambers are like this, or that everyone enjoys litigation. I have seen miserable people here as well. I have also seen very satisfied and happy people in law firms. The bottom line as far as I have understood is, find what suits you and pursue it. There is no one correct answer. I went to an NLU and I was sort of indoctrinated into this mindset that somehow working in a tier-1 law firm is the end all and be all of your life, trust me it is not. So please to everyone reading prioritise your mental and physical health. Because at the end of the day, to all law firms and teams you work with, you are replaceable but to your family and loved ones you are not.