do you really think the fact that you pay fees- heavily subsidised fees at a state run institution I might add- entitles you to make decisions about how the university is run? youre paying fees to be a student. not to boss around far more experienced faculty and administrators. youre not customers. youre students.

Please mark as trollist and contested. No mass registrations have been threatened in the written resolution drafted. See the resolution at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OnaGLAU9t_o6l0IUPsu61WrJlc3HxHEESr0DE11xrZ0/edit?usp=sharing

WTF is wrong with you kids? You have the best VC in the country: an Infosys Prize winner and internationally acclaimed academic. He has rescued NLSIU from the dumps by weeding out mediocre TLC faculty and hiring stud alumni faulty. He has tirelessly raised money through alumni and worked towards the expansion and upgradation of NLSIU. He has ensured that NLSIU is the only NLU to rank in QS, apart from dominating NIRF. Other NLU kids would literally give their right arm to have a VC like him. And you are upset with him because of some stupid sports fest??? Go to a freaking public park and play football or cricket. Go to a government facility and play Olympic sports. Who's stopping you?

Sudhir's goal is academic excellence and not populism. Get a VC from a rubbish college if you want populism.

Please take him away. We are more than happy. What good is the money doing for us? He is increasing fees every year and pouring them into his masterplan. We are the ones who are paying and are suffering in this construction site with no voice whatsoever.

This is not just a place where we study, it's our home. So, extra-curriculars, fests, are all important parts of a good human life.

its obviously NOT your home. Your home is your home. Who told you a university is your home just because youre residing there temporarily? Is sudhir stopping you from registering for marathons or taking time every day to play football or basketball? Is he coming to the court and disrupting matches? Or is he simply saying - do what you want- you have to finish academic work regardless? the man himself played several sports and ran marathons while working extremely hard. It can be done. You just cant expect handouts because you want an easy ride tbh.

These are all appreciable points but democracy isn't the same as populism. Sudhir should know, he lost a constitutional law case against him in the courts for trying to pull out of CLAT. It's well known that he's seen as a bit of a joke in the Consortium.

The sports fest isn't the actual issue, that's trivial although some of my friends might take umbrage to that. It's emblematic of his fascist style of operation. The faculty you lot keep cooing about has so far not changed much other than cry about attendance throughout the semester. The faculty also openly dislike him, so he really has no one in his corner.

Exactly. If they wanted to raise a voice it should have been to support PhD candidates whose thesis were being shut down. Yet they choose to strike for games and sports. No wonder the academic excellence is going down when future professors and researchers are not supported and surpassed by wanting fests

I remember Sudhir's words at the India Today Conclave, when he dismissed the IIT Delhi director's view on the relevance of skills education. He had said: "I don't care what law firms want".

When he unilaterally pulled most of CLAT, his attitude was: "I don't care what other NLUs and CLAT aspirants want."

Now he seems to be saying: "I don't care what the students want."

Lol, Messiah doesn't care if all student office bearers quit their posts, since he thinks that the student body isn't required to do anything but study anyway. A real protest should be one like the SBA has staged in order to get Messiah in as the VC, with placards and dharna. Ironical, yet true.

It directly affects them, they should start the protest or send a mail explaining their ordeal. Trilateral and academic issues affect us directly and we started protesting. If they sent a mail explaining their ordeal, I am sure that the other students will support them. Trust me, not even 5% of the students know about this PhD thing

Because you and the rest of your cohert are self centred egoistic brats. When you speak about the university you look out for everyone involved that includes UG, PG and PhD. If you had payed more attention, you'd know that not only the PhD scholars but even professors did formally and informally speak about this issue. Hell, even people not from NLS know about this issue. It's been brought up in LI so many times. Yet none of you had the gall to speak to the seniors about this. The only reason being that it's academic in nature. On the other hand this trivial matter is sports and entertainment related. Has nothing to do with your future career, yet you are up in arms over it. Once you pass out, how many medals you win, how many debates you had and how many make out session you were in will not matter. Yet the CGPA and thesis that you produce will have a lasting effect. Grow up and take part in more important things.

Please read the resolution. It was posted on LI. It's not about sports and entertainment. The demands cover everything from lack of monetary support to students to academic issues to sports, fests etc.

If it affects them then they will have to start the conversation. Have they reached out to the SBA? To the SC or any other student body? Can we start a protest based on a random LI allegation?

Mind you, these are the clowns protesting: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/pnwda6urfCo

Wonder why they hate Sudhir when he opposes watching movies and sleeping in class.

This is nothing but an intergenerational culture war. Sudhir is hiring good faculty and imposing rigorous academic standards. The senior alumni of NLSIU (from Gen X and Gen Y) are solidly behind him for that, as this is a generation that values hard work. The present Gen Z kids are all against him for that, as this is an entitled generation used to easy grades and for whom hard work is "fascist".

P.S. Before Gen Z kids downvote this comment, I request you to speak to a sample of Gen X and Gen Y alumni. I guarantee you that 90% of them will back Sudhir (if not more).

Firstly, if you talk about academic standards then it has gone down drastically. The continuous evaluation imposed by Sudhir replaced full-fledged research papers with class presentations and writing summaries of specific readings.

Secondly, who started Strawberry fields, Spiritus, Trilateral, quad parties, Mid-Law party, Law School NYP, The Ball, and other similar student-led events/parties? Was it done by Gen-Z or by Gen-X and Gen-Y? It looks like Gen X and Gen Y used to have regular parties and no academic schedule lol cuz we don't have even 50% of the events that I just mentioned. Sorry, we are not as entitled and party kids as Gen X and Gen Y were.

This year, NLS may only have NLSTIAM, NLSD and NMC. The last one is highly doubtful. Even if all these happens, the student body will act as mere volunteer groups who will work as timekeepers and waterboys.

It's about what adds value to your life and not what keeps you busy. Even a first student year law student can differentiate between a chatgpt project and a manually written project. Mark the chatgpt projects low, give them 7/40. Chatgpt projects will automatically. This is in case of projects that have been written entirely by chatgpt. I don't see a problem if someone starts their researcg with chatgpt but writes a proper project. If an open source website helps me write term papers better then it should be encouraged and everyone should be taught to use it. The ultimate goal is to write good researcg papers.

Please also respond to the second part on Gen X, Gen Y v. Gen Z.

You act like students are perfect angels who behave in good faith. I taught at another law school where students do abuse chatgpt to get around their work- if you mark them low they want definitive proof of cheating . How do you provide definitive proof ?

Plagiarism is also about stealing writing and articulation. Have you been following the Claudine gay thing ? She got in trouble for language she had taken from other authors - nothing to do with ideas. If you ask a friend to help write a project or feed prompts to a friend and have them write something and edit it later - and then you don’t acknowledge them - that’s plagiarism. Even if you do acknowledge them it might still be plagiarism or unauthorised collaboration.

You might think it’s morally acceptable to use chatgpt but I do not. If you’re being evaluated for work you’re claiming to have done - you should have done that work. This isn’t about what you can get away with- this is about have you learnt the skills to move on up.

It’s like using a calculator in a middle school math exam- you might technically get the answer right - but the reason you’re not allowed to is because you can only demonstrate that you know how to do long division by hand by actually doing that and showing your work. If we gave up on teaching students basic math or writing and research - were not preparing them for a world where those skills will serve them.

In a world filled with lawyers who can only use chatgpt- the guy who knows how to write, who knows how to draft - he’s gonna get clients who pay, and he’s gonna get his research funded-because when it’s serious money at stake - you want that credibility and accountability.

I don’t like to fight culture wars on generations. This is more about class than it is about generations anyway. I think there were plenty of spoilt useless rich brats in pre-clat generations. I think there were plenty of other people who came from dirt and made a name for themselves because they dedicated themselves to improving their school.

You should ask yourself which group you belong to. Do you think the competition for jobs and scholarships is so low that you can waste time in college fighting over a sports meet that’s at best an excuse for kids to get high? After all if it is about just playing sport for the love of it and trying to emphasise discipline and fitness and sportsmanship - you could legitimately just play with local teams at a significantly lower cost to the university. No one ever got a job because they won against Nalsars football team- those guys are mediocre anyway.

a lot of those people who started all these concerts and extra curriculars did so because they had rich lawyer parents who would help their careers. They could afford to take a five year vacation at what they saw as a finishing school .

Y’all will be complaining in five years that the nls brand isn’t what it used to be- what you will mean is that you won’t get jobs off the brand name. You will blame it on the VC and the expansion. But really other people at the university will still be getting jobs and scholarships. And it will be because they kept their eye on the ball and their feet on the ground. They were realistic about the competition that’s out there and went after the academic and career opportunities nls offers instead of complaining they don’t get to party their faces off. The toppers at nls will be fine. It’s folks in the middle and bottom of the 5 year programme who will struggle to find jobs.

If you don’t contribute to building the brand - you contribute to destroying it- and you don’t morally deserve to benefit from it.

Now if you can be an excellent student and have a serious career plan and

Sports or concerts help you do that stuff - work life balance and all - good for you. But you have to be honest with yourself first, and the institutions priorities for funding might not match your specific taste - you might have to go it alone.

You can always raise funding for any of these events, host your guests in hotel rooms , have the event at another venue, or you can pay the university for use of its resources. Students at other universities already do this. But if you’re asking for an investment of university resources into a sports meet or a concert- you have to be able to articulate why your cause deserves an investment other than “ waahhhh I want it , it’s so unfair! My friends all got it !”

The university is heading into a lean period financially - they’re taking on a lot more students , building a lot more infrastructure , and hiring more and better faculty. Those are expensive things.

They may host an alumni weekend so they can glad-hand some partners and squeeze some scholarships out of them - but how does it help to pay for students to get high and drunk and watch a concert ?

Because you prompted me to talk about generations let me say this- For a generation that complains constantly about how unfair it is that they inherited a world that is facing enormous challenges in climate , the economy, education, and social justice. For a generation that claims to be “woke” to these injustices, y’all have some weird priorities. You want to have oppression points but you also want a luxurious life. You want to complain about competition in job market but you want to spend your years in college out of your mind partying instead of doing everything you can to beat out the competition, or even everything you can to solve larger problems. You say you want a revolution - but y’all also want to retire early and live like a kardashian.

At some point you’re gonna have to come back to earth - away from insta reels - that’s not real life. And start working on solving problems for real.

You can keep blaming your elders - but at the end of the day it’s your life and your future. Those guys already got theirs. Rich Gen x and gen y folks might have had it easier - but times are different now, and different for you.

Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times.

Lastly, if you think doing continuous evaluation is “busywork” - you don’t understand pedagogy to be having this conversation. And if you think sports give you more meaning than academics or learning the law - why are you in law school ? Why are you taking away an opportunity from the lakhs of students who would give an arm and a leg to be where you are ? Please do us all a favour and leave.

This is exactly what one of our faculty said. We need to adapt to the existing tech and modify our pedagogy to use those better and more effectively, instead of shying away from those. Only way to remain on the curve, if not ahead of it. He has come up with some alt suggestions about how to integrate tech within our assignments. However, he is in the minority about this, no other faculty has supported it yet from what I have been told.

adapting to tech and becoming reliant on tech are two different things. If you dont learn law in law school how to research, construct arguments, draft , and write, then when will you learn it? Who would pay you to play with chat gpt all day and how much would they pay you when youre not bringing a real skill to the table? Its not like chatgpt is so complicated we have to teach it to all our students all five years. An idiot could work it. Your value would have to come from actually knowing the law and knowing these skills- not in being reliant on flawed tech.

youre talking as if youre building the large language models. Youre using it. Im pretty sure using calculators and computers and phones is easier than building one. First you show capability in writing 3000 words on any topic and show any kind of insight or coherence. Then you can argue about whether chatgpt use is indeed all that complicated.

Replacing research papers with things like class presentation, participation, case note (not analysis), among others. Sudhir things that Chatgpt responses can't be identified or that chatgpt can write better research papers than Sudhir so research papers don't have any value in today's world.

if you cannot fairly characterise your opponent's arguments- youre engaging in bad faith. Sudhir has written many papers many good academics could not have written. it is sick to attack him for that when you're a student. He absolutely knows plagiarised work when he sees it. He just doesn't want faculty to keep litigating with students about chat GPT. hed rather we all build assignments that minimise cheating and are rigorous than act as policemen looking for chatgpt around every corner.

According to Sudhir's own Google Scholar profile, he has written exactly 6 journal articles that have been even remotely subjected to peer-review. Those are not even all from the leading law journals in India. He has penned a large number of newspaper op-eds and a few book chapters, however those are not certainly subjected to the same level of review. This has been a recurring criticism of him as a serious scholar.

yall keep moving goal posts. This is generational war- no wait you effectively made a case that this is about class? , now this is about evaluation patterns- oh you effectively made a case for the evaluation patterns?, this is about we should be able to use chat gpt instead of writing- oh you effectively told us why its plagiarism?, this is about sudhir is not a serious scholar- oh youre going to point to his publications? but wait those ones dont count because i dont like that journal, show me exactly what I think is quality - Sudhir Krishnaswamy should have dedicated his career to please me as an individual.

Its ridiculous- and all of this has been argued before and no one is interested in doing it again. Most people know Sudhirs record as a scholar and are quite happy with what hes got done. Its nothing at all to be snarky about considering hes also been an administrator, written a great book, and engaged in policy work. Most people commenting here cant write 3000 words without chat gpt- really this is just shocking. Most other NLU VCs dont have any kind of respectable scholarship at all, and when they do its very clear that they take credit for the writing of others. Sudhir has a decent record- theres no evidence at all that he hasnt written all of the work attributed to him, and among academics- his peers- no one thinks hes some lightweight, in fact hes quite intimidating with his ability to tear your argument apart.

It’s mostly stuff you can’t cheat on- small weekly/ monthly in class tests, in class writing assignments , response papers. Instead of putting 80% of the marks in a term paper or a test at the end which incentivises cheating and reduces faculty ability to catch it or punish it, you spread it out. Faculty are better placed to design evaluation such that they can prevent cheating. And students have multiple tries at improving their grade so they can learn from mistakes. But of course it takes a lot more effort to consistently learn than it does to cram stuff the night before the exam. And research shows that this improves retention of learned materials. And it takes more effort for faculty to continuously correct papers than it does to just correct end term papers.

oh no! could it be that neither the faculty nor the students want to do all the extra work that continuous evaluation entails? If you focus on making people happy you will find your integrity withering away quite quickly. sudhir is many things- but he is not a man without integrity.

The alternative to making everyone happy is not to make everyone unhappy. That simply means that you are an incapable administrator. As far as his integrity is concerned, why don't you ask him what happened to the 50% NLAT money that he had retained, or how does he justify sitting on people's theses after the evaluators have passed them, or even how he refuses to release the whole CLAT merit list in the public domain? Fanboys paint a rosy picture of him, but he is just an autocrat who refuses to acknowledge his mistakes through sheer stubbornness, and does not allow dissent in any form.

I think its reasonable to draw the link between preventing cheating and valuing academic integrity. We are not splitting hairs here. We are discussing if plagiarism and using chat gpt is in line with academic integrity- most people in most law schools would tell you no, but even without a vote- It would shock me if serious people ( not opportunistic students) disagreed. theres plenty of academic research on the value of continuous evaluation. This is adopted in law schools across the world.

Hes the VC- its literally his job to decide all of this stuff- to decide what good academic standards look like for his university. You can disagree- but I dont see anyone being swayed to think that using chat gpt to write your essays is A-Okay.

did you even read? its not that anyone is afraid of sanctioning students- least of all sudhir. its that continuous evaluation a) improves learning and retention and b) allows for evaluation at excludes possible cheating. I would rather not give my students the opportunity to cheat and then sanction them. I would rather build assessments where cheating would not work and would be disincentivised.

How will you prove any bit of text has been generated by AI? How will you definitively prove it so that someone who did that could face academic sanction fairly?

Maybe we need to wean off the teat of the alumni network then. What's the point in beating our chests at being the best university since Nalanda if we depend on pass-outs to spoon feed us opportunities? We're reduced to capitalising on the first mover advantage of NLS being the first NLU. We've given these old farts too much power to meddle in the affairs of the university merely because they throw cash on the floor for us to pick. Appalling state of affairs.

of course they are. why is this a shock to you? do you live in a world where rank 70 from NLS is a harder worker and more suited for a job than rank 10 from GLC or Nirma or LC? do you think theyre a super-caste of men at nls? theyre regular kids. of course rich connected off spring of lawyers dont have to work as hard to get a job or get clients. the students and the alumni dont have a perfectly meritocratic mindset. they dont put long term interests of their firm over tribal attitudes and the good old boy network. youre all lousy.

There are plenty of them. Not that they don't want to teach but that they are not good at teaching. I don't think naming and shaming profs on LI is a good thing especially when they try their best. The fact is that not all the hires are good, around 30-40% of them are not good instructors.

So they do teach. You dont like how they teach- maybe they expect you to read and wont spoonfeed material- but they do teach. Why should anyone take your assessment of their teaching abilities as gospel? most of these people have teaching experience already and have been successful elsewhere.

So if you don't let the students tell you how good the teacher is, then who is going to do that exactly? Your fertile imagination? Success as a researcher or author can be separately established, not as a teacher. If someone used to teach well in the past and not doing so anymore, maybe they need to revisit the way they are doing things. You need to evolve too as a teacher. Just like most other professions.

No. Other institutions actually have answers for this problem. 1) long term trends are better than individual years and much better than individual students. 2) It is possible to have a peer review process which is what they do for tenure in america- a senior professor goes into classes of junior faculty and evaluates. I would any day trust someone who is not likely to be trying to settle scores for a bad grade or an unsatisfactory interaction. Student surveys are notoriously sexist and biased- there is a lot of research on it. This commenter has already shown theyre unreliable- they went from "this person doesnt teach" to " they dont do what I like". without even specifying anything at all. Why would you be inclined to believe them?

They absolutely do. They collect student feedback at the end of every course and provide that feedback to faculty and in cases of concerning feedback they discuss it with faculty. There is a fair bit of mentoring for younger faculty when theyre teamed up to teach subjects with older faculty. Its not perfect- but its false and lying to claim theres no check on faculty at all. In fact I dont think faculty at nls have ever had their feet held to the fire as much as during Sudhirs term as VC. On both publications and academic rigor- he pushes everyone, faculty and student alike.

It's clear that you are a Sudhir fanboy who cannot read and comprehend properly. The comment said that the alternate checks as proposed did not exist, not that student feedback does not. It does, contrary to claims that it is a bad way to judge a teacher, that's the only way to understand classroom teaching quality.

It's easy to see why Sudhir wants to discontinue the Trilateral. He just won't accept NALSAR, NUJS or any other NLU to be worthy of being compared with NLSIU. Remember that he pulled out of CLAT and also instructed NLSIU's counsel (Vikramjit Banerjee) to argue in the Karnataka HC that only NLSIU is a national institute. He also bears a grudge that NUJS students burst crackers outside his room as a prank, as they found him to be too strict.

This is the real reason. I'm telling you.

I reported this comment by an anti-Sudhir troll. I am confident that the moderator will remove it. The comment is fake news, just like other fake news spread by anti-Sudhir trolls. The Rhodes committee has not blacklisted NLSIU and they don’t blacklist any university! It’s just BS.

Of course, there is a separate issue of why NLSIU has not won Rhodes scholarships in the past few years. But that is possibly because they want to give other universities a chance, as NLSIU swept Rhodes in the 25 years preceding this period. It’s got nothing to do with Sudhir and the lean period started during Rao’s time.