On face of the reality of innumerous human migrations throughout the course of history, a land can only belong to some particular group only when the ancestors of that group stemmed out of a seed that was planted on that land
the truth is most indians support israel is because historically we have good diplomatic relations with eachother and Israel support India in all sensitive issues like Kashmir, which palestinian do not support. And people saying about killings and all the truth is any country do no give a fuck about human rights untill it somehow benefits them eg- Afganistan and many african countries.
This comment is for sure written by a zionist worshipper of the IOF. What in the false wrong statements is this? All of it baseless and brought you by the Jewish victimhood narrative. And y'all obsession with khhhamas is pathetic. Get better at your "arguments" plz
Those +13,000 murdered Palestinian children don't shake your moral stand? They don't hurt your heart? Your heart has selective empathy for the fake story of 40 decapitated murdered babies that got even debunked by Israeli sources themselves but not for the real footage of murdered Palestinian babies in incubators? Your heart doesn't care about the thousands of abducted kidnapped Palestinians children without fair legal trial? Cause they live in the power imbalance of occupation where they can't have any legal right!
Last note: it's very shameful of you to talk about having any sense of morality when it took you literally fake atrocity propaganda stories full of lies to have an opinion on the Palestinian cause and side with the oppressors while there are REAL ACTUAL FOOTAGE AND STORIES OF MURDERED BABIES AND INFANTS BY ISRAELIS both the military and the illegal settler gangs in the West Bank and Eastern Al Quds. Those
Just to add this here, since you mentioned the Oslo accords (they're worse than 1947 unjust illegal partition backed up but the US) and how it's the evil Arabs who launched wars on the poor angel victim Israelis who can't harm an ant and came to the land peacefully and calmly with no bloodshed: https://www.facebook.com/share/r/Pw8heqTTXDBAQ3Nx/?mibextid=xCPwDs
You also need to read historical books written by Israeli new historians dealing with what actually happened to the Palestinians back then like Ilan Pappé, Avi Shlaim & Benny Morris etc but hey bringing up arguments from WhatsApp Israeli Uni is so much better na
This zionist BS that you believe reminds of this quote: They steal your bread, then give you a crumb of it… Then they demand you to thank them for their generosity… O their audacity! And they act surprised when you refuse. Bffr! The rest of what you said are biased talking points that reek of zionist smell so yeah no. About the Hamas Charter give me the original content so I can see how they wrote " kill and eradicate the Jews" I'm and Arabic speaker so I know the original and it's nothing like that.
5) About the west bank, against khAmAs khAmAs, back up your claims please with sources ofcourse. You need to know the whole ass history of Fatah and how it got infiltrated by agents for the Mossad & Shin Bet and how that very reason paved the way for Hamas popularity in the West Bank and therefore created small poorly armed groups of freedom fighters precisely in Jenin Camp. And about the wars you mentioned there are so many aspects and factors you left out, like WHY those wars happened and how Israel illegally annexed Gaza and the West Bank besides the Golan Heights. The Oslo accords were a joke, it literally gave 78% of the land to the Israeli occupation only for them to withdraw form Gaza and the West Bank while still occupying Jerusalem precisely East Jerusalem which had led to tension and Israel took advantage of that at the time to completely take over Jerusalem and didn't let any presence of the Palestinian authority and the West supported Israel in doing so by stopping any Palestinian official activity in Jerusalem. And then they started destroying Palestinian homes in Jerusalem for years till now to build illegal settlements and oh you missed out Rabin's assassination by a fellow Israeli.
Now coming to this early comment of yours, since there's a fanboy here daring any "kid" to reply to your talking point without ad hominem which you yourself have done in one of your so called arguments, implying and assuming unproven untrue stuff about Palestinians and which are all zionist created pov of the Palestinian struggle. Now coming back to what you've wrote:
1) Israel was since the earliest beginnings of it's attempts at creation, a proxy colonialist project for the western powers back then for imperialist reasons like benefitting from land resources in the heart of the middle east.
In 1920, Britain assumed responsibility for Palestine under a League of Nations Mandate. During the next two decades, over 100,000 Jews entered the country.
The British Army's operations in Palestine during this period were mainly directed against militant Arab groups who were opposed to this mass Jewish immigration. Violence reached a height with the Arab Revolt of 1936-39 while the British Army started training Jewish militias like the infamous Haganah to opress and repress the Arab uprisings.
2) Historically speaking not biblically Mr Anti-Religious fundamentalism, what happened now? When it comes to Jews you draw the line and suddenly start believing the Bible? Anyways, Canaanites & Philistines were there before the Israelites and are genetically similar to the Palestinians of today unlike how the Israelites of back then aren't actually genetically similar to modern day "Israelis" who are majority Ashkenazi and from other random parts of the world. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-11-14/ty-article-opinion/the-twisted-logic-of-the-jewish-historic-right-to-israel/0000017f-db53-d3ff-a7ff-fbf3bcc50000https://www.indstate.edu/cas/sites/arts.indstate.edu/files/Faculty/melyassini/NSOCJ_1_0.PDF and unlike the Israelite Jews, the Arab Philistines stayed in their land for generations continuously while the Jews stayed INTERMITTENTLY. So coming after 2000 years to throw someone out of their home and claim it as yours as per what your book says is a terrorist act! But hey the Arabs are victims here so who cares? We only care when the Jews are hurt.
4) Again the rape and murdered babies atrocity propaganda that got exposed and debunked SO many times. Well on the other hand look up this:https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/un-experts-appalled-by-reported-rights-violations-against-palestinian-women-girls/3142105https://www.eui.eu/events?id=547024https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/conflict-and-society/9/1/arcs090105.xmlhttps://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/statement-un-experts-israels-violations-against-palestinian-women-girls-welcomed-euro-med-monitor#:~:text=%E2%80%9CAt%20least%20two%20female%20Palestinian,and%20uploaded%20to%20the%20Internet.https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/statement-un-experts-israels-violations-against-palestinian-women-girls-welcomed-euro-med-monitor
5) Again, you have no idea about the history of the creation of Hamas ideologically & militant wise, neither the Palestinian political history, you're just parroting the zionist talking points as if you're their Indian spokesman. Hamas as a rightful Armed Resistance had it's Islamic theological beginnings to draw more people in to fight back against the brutal occupation and nothing can beat Islamic spirituality in that but you're not an Arab or a Muslim so you wouldn't know. Then they had very humble beginnings in their skills of fighting till the late 2000s precisely since 2006, after the blockade Iran as the only country directly supporting them military wise started to send them aid and nothing wrong with that, where's the wrong in here? And how is it any different than other western countries not only sending aid but also supporting genocides and wars throughout history till now like USA/UK/Germany/France etc...or any other country supporting a common interest and fighting off a common enemy. I'm sure India would do the same with Pak when it comes to Kashmir. Hamas was democratically elected and chosen and still supported, now even more since we can all see why were they right, now that everything got exposed except for the people with blind hearts who can't see. Oh and about the two states "solution" you really wanna talk about this? Okay let's start with 1947 partition plan https://www.jstor.org/stable/4321940https://www.salon.com/2015/11/30/u_n_voted_to_partition_palestine_68_years_ago_in_an_unfair_plan_made_even_worse_by_israels_ethnic_cleansing/ by this logic, you invade these people's lands claiming that it was a land without people while ethnically cleaning those people then throwing them out and never letting them return, making them refugees in their own lands, and you claim that land was given to you thousands years ago even if you never actually stayed in that land for generations as those refugee people did, then you demand the partition and the bigger part for yourself even if you were actually a minority and give the rest to the refugee majority, then frame yourself as the victim when they start rejecting and revolting. Plo, Hamas and all of them have every single right to reject the unjust illegal partition plan so called 2 state solution...
About your hasbara atrocity staged scripted fabricated propaganda that got exposed and debunked even by Israeli media news outlets themselves like Haaretz & even Times Of Israel lmfao letting alone talking about the Female head of the sexual assault centre in USA that got fired from her job cause she said the Hamas rape allegations are simply false and lack any evidence but again still waiting for that Hamas rape livestream you're parroting form your zionist Masters...🥱
There are many Palestinian Female freedom fighters & trained militants/agents I'll just give u some names and you search about the rest welp if u were Arab like myself i could've sent u an Arabic site of the full list of their names & history cause unfortunately there aren't many English articles/sites talking about those many women except for a few names like: Leila Khaled, Fatima Bernawi, Shadia Abu Ghazaleh, Dalal Al Maghribi,
There is a pictorial book published by Sami Al Arian in 1938. It documents Zionist and British atrocities perpetrated against the Palestinians between 1921-1938.
It included: destruction, bombing, burning, maiming, stealing, torture, killing women and children, desecration of mosques, burning qur'ans, etc.
The war against the Palestinians did not start in 2023. It's been going on for over a century."
The onslaught on Palestinians started even way before when terrorist Jewish militias of hashomer and bar-giora militia and the jewish colonisation association, Yishuv, Hagannah, Irgun, lehi, Palmach militias since the early 20s started targetting Palestinian villages and exterminating Palestinians: https://www.ojp.gov/ and also read about the Haavara Agreement
There is a pictorial book published by Sami Al Arian in 1938. It documents Zionist and British atrocities perpetrated against the Palestinians between 1921-1938.
It included: destruction, bombing, burning, maiming, stealing, torture, killing women and children, desecration of mosques, burning qur'ans, etc.
You're trying to sell the zionist Hasbara narrative, to make believe that it's an issue with "hamas" and keep people away from the truth of it being a Palestinian issue, the Palestinian cause.
Question to you: before 1987 when hamas was created as an armed defense for defenseless unarmed Palestinians, who were the zionists fighting? And how many massacres they've committed against Palestinians under the eyes of "british mandate"? And how many Palestinians were kidnapped, taken into prisons of torture since 1967? 800,000 Palestinians "Imprisoned" indiscriminately till now, thousands of children, women, elderly taken into captivity, kidnapped and illegally abducted! They ARE THE HOSTAGES. But we don't see the likes of you caring do we? Cause they're not white , they're not jewish they're just some muslim arabs who dared omg they dared to resist and fight back one of the last tails of western imperialism in our countries, Israel.
I dont think palestinians all support Hamas- but too many of them do. Where were any protests against hamas before all this started? where were palestinians who wanted to pursue peace? How is it that theyve allowed this feckless and corrupt government to represent them all these years in Gaza? Is it possible that they have been radicalised and agree with what Hamas does? Poll after Poll conducted in Gaza and the west bank shows palestinians like Hamas. They celebrated Oct 7. I dont think that makes them all guilty and deserving of punishment. I just think it will take a while to de-radicalise a radicalised population. I dont think any peace is possible while they support Hamas, while Hamas exists.
Israelis are held to the exact standard that im holding Palestinians to. Israelis have voted Bibi out twice before this and they will vote him out again. Did you know hes in a poorly held together coalition? that he didnt win outright like dictators do? Israelis have set up a democracy for themselves with a range of political parties and do often change their mind. The reason Israel gets more favorable treatment is because Israel is the ONLY party in the middle east to pursue peace. to give away land to try and buy peace. When israelis left the west bank they pulled their dead out of their graves and took the dead with them. When Israelis left Gaza they left behind hundreds of high tech green houses that could have provided food and employment for Gazans but they were destroyed by Palestinians. They did all of that unilaterally- they had no reason to other than- they have demonstrated that they wanted to pursue peace. Hamas and Palestinians have not demonstrated that at all. 5 times in modern history Hamas and PLO were offered good land- more land than they have now- for peace. And they declined without a counter offer 5 times- these people arent interested in peace , theyre interested in the whole thing because they think its their exclusive religious birthright. I disagree with that approach.
"Israelis didn't give any land that US and other powers didn't acquire for them forcefully to begin with" - I dont agree with that characterisation at all. I think its very skewed and biased. Of course israel has found a military partner in US. Where do you think Hamas' rockets and bombs come from? Do they grow them in the field? Its Irani money. I dont resent Israel for protecting itself with defensive wars in its history. They have that right like every other country in the world. They only had that land because since 1948 a newly formed jewish state has been attacked by all its neighbors and mostly won that land in battle. If pakistan attacked us tomorrow and we defended ourselves and took some land- I wouldnt call that colonisation. Thats just war. Unprovoked war at that. And Israel exists and has a right to continue its existence.
"Palestinians got their human rights violated in Gaza on a daily basis by Israeli forces even before October". This is not all the way true. On October 6th there were thousands of palestinians who could go to work in israel , live in israel, and go back home when they wished to. Since 2005 israel left Gaza- completely left it- in the control of a Hamas government voted in by palestinians. How is it israeli responsibility then whether Gazans can provide for themselves?. It is not an open air prison because Israel wishes to protect its own citizens from crimes. And it is not an open air prison because Israel imposes a blockade on a hostile neighbor that wants israel gone. Israel doesnt owe palestinians that and its ridiculous to characterise that as some human rights violation. I think if you want your own independence and your own government- it kind of becomes your governments job to provide for you. It wont do for unemployed and underfed Indians to blame Bangladesh or Srilanka or America for being unemployed and underfed- they have to hold their government accountable. What has Hamas done for Palestinians in the 17 years theyve been in charge of Gaza? How many hospitals and schools and universities did they build? Why are palestinian kids dying without potable water? Why do rockets get prioritised over that? Could it be that theyre feckless and corrupt and know that spreading anti semitism is easier than actually building something for their kids? The reason Hamas gets any support is because there is jew hatred and people want Israel to not exist. The choice for palestinians wasnt support hamas/ israel- thats a false equivalency. Its like saying the choice for Indians is to support Modi/ Pakistan. We have other parties and a democracy we have protected to enable us to hold our governments accountable. The choice for palestinians has always been- support hamas or support any other palestinian opposition party- and theyve sadly always chosen hamas. And as long as they do- they will continue to be at war with israel and they will continue to lose.
Netayanhu isn't Israel. Hamas isn't Palestine. Palestinians are still being massacred for Hamas' actions. Why shouldn't Israelis be held to the same standard? Israelis didn't give any land that US and other powers didn't acquire for them forcefully to begin with. Palestinians got their human rights violated in Gaza on a daily basis by Israeli forces even before October. Two state solution has to be tenable and equal for it to be acceptable. The reason why Hamas gets any support from Palestinians despite their horrible approach is because Israel has proven itself to be worse for Palestinians over the years.
Because Netanyahu is not israel.There’s like a whole country with opposition and leftists. And because israel is the only party in the Middle East that has ever agreed to a two state solution. They’ve agreed to it five times in history. They’ve given away land to buy peace and it has not worked. On October 6th there was Palestinian rule in Gaza because Israelis want a two state solution. Israel right now don’t have a negotiating partner that is interested in a two state solution. Until Hamas goes - root and stem - the two state solution is not going to be possible. But in the long term - it’s the only thing to do is for these people to put religious tribalism aside and try to improve the lives of their kids and live side by side.
If you want a two state solution, then how are you still supporting Israel? Netayanhu has already gone on record saying that he is not interested in any such solution and the IDF will never move away from Gaza or any part of it. He is no longer even putting up the pretense of wishing that the conflict would end. I hate the Hamas and their atrocities, but do not really consider that guy to be any better, just with a stronger force and support to back his bullying.
western? cause last time i looked india was not west. zionist- because i want a two state solution thats somehow an awful thing? okay. muslimphobic? you have no proof of that at all. Ive always had muslim friends in schools and college, i come from an inter-religious marriage. Most Indians are not muslim phobic. They love muslims for their music, the biggest movie stars and poets and writers are all muslim and most hindus love it. What indians dont like is separatism, the idea that your religion has to bleed into your politics and that some extremist muslims want to keep different laws and different statehood and remain excluded from mainstream society. we have some experience with separatism- that might have something to do with that.
If you want "proof" of hamas' atrocities on Oct 7- youre in an information bubble so deep you wont ever come out. They can prove it to you- they live-streamed their atrocities. Youve lost all credibility with that.
Im sure Israel like most other countries in this world has had errant soldiers do awful things. I havent seen any proof that it is a matter of state policy to rape or torture or target children. If Palestinians raise their kids to cross the borders and stab israelis- perhaps those kids should be removed from that influence and helped. I notice also you didnt name a single female palestinian freedom fighter, proved my point.
I dont care about your identity and whatever authority you want to claim based on your identity. Your identity doesnt give you any authority. If I were algerian today, I would be more angry at dictators who violate human rights than the french who left- a while ago. What are you even doing on a site called legally india?
We had colonisation here as well- but it wont do to be stuck in the past- so we move on- take any scholarships and jobs UK will offer us, and find a better life, and try and get a democracy going in our home country.
No one has any problem with muslims educating themselves, becoming doctors and engineers, and educating their kids, and working hard and getting out of poverty and making a good life for themselves. We have a problem with them "fighting back" by raping, killing, and kidnapping grandmas and babies. Please show me one freedom fighter who did things like that. the west- and the entire world makes that differentiation. Its not cause theyre all islamophobic- its cause they have a smidge of morality.
First and foremost, India is surrounded by 2 great nuclear friends. One is a Superpower & other is a crazy power. Me personally, I think the crazy power is a bigger threat because slowly, it has lost its ability to reason. You can still somehow reason with the superpower, because it has bigger fish than us to fry.
Toh pehle toh apni jaan bacha le. Tell me who is USA or any European kid to tell us what should we do? Are they surrounded by 2 nuclear-powered arch enemies with live LOC and LAC? So, should their ideals be applied to our nascent independent nation? Shouldn't our military have top quality weapons too?
The Pak airforce has bloody F16s. Abhinandan fought with F16s. PM Modi said if we had Rafael at that time, result would have been different.
Do you understand the gravity of the situation? We are in a nuclear neighbourhood with 2 good enough militaries with top class weapons on our throats at all times. Unless we are prepared, we will be eliminated. So, all of our thought process has to have the defence component.
Most of our weapons are still imported. We have been building Arjuna tank for last 14y. Tejas is still not fully deployed. After 75+ y we still buy weapons from foreign nations, so much for our greatness.
The Modi govt. allowed the foreign companies to start manufacturing in India and sell to Indian military and create JVs. Shouldn't the UPA or Congress should have done it long ago? Like cycle manufacture Hero, which later created a JV with Honda to create Hero Honda, and later parted ways, our big firms would have learnt a great deal by now. But, the secular Congress & UPA did not allow this. Why? Kickback kam ho jate na.
Literally as an Indian Engineer before 2015, you could not have created a defence tech company an sold to Indian military. Why? Aren't any Indian capable enough? Because you wanted to promote some failed shit called Socialism? No. You wanted India to continue importing weapons so that you could earn kickbacks.
How does Israel comes in this picture? Israel has helped India militarily many times.
Jab agli baar aapki Army aur Air Force officers, ammunition aur missile ki emergency purchase karne bhaage bhaage Israel jae, toh yeh puchna, Is this the promised land? Why not buying weapons from secular states. Weapons are wrong. Peace is good.
Apna desh bacha lo. Phir Nehruji ki tarah morality pe gyan dena aur non alignment, non alignment chillana.
I'm not going to reply to any of your western zionist Muslimphobic talking points and erasure of Palestinian history that are driven by deeply rooted chauvinistic prejudiced propaganda view of Arab & Muslim lives, which you have kept on parroting. Now, I dare you to give me and show me any proof that Hamas raped women and murdered babies. On the other hand, I can show you dozens of just "some" of the collected proof of Israelis raping Palestinian women since the 40s historically and till now! And oh the child killing, thousands of footage of babies murdered by Israelis and kidnapped kids held in prisons of torture. Oh btw, there are multiple Palestinian female freedom fighters and their achievements too, stop the intellectual dishonesty & mental laziness and search'em up, also search about the PFLP. I'm an Algerian girl, read about Algerian history of freedom fighting to get rid of one of the most horrible vile colonisations, the French one that had murdered 45,000 Algerians in one single day in 1945, and i believe I'm more validated than any Indian or anyone for that matter to speak on how the west views freedom fighters alongside the muslimphobes who have a psychological complex towards seeing Muslims fight back.
Not Indians but andhbhakts when Hitler was killing jews andhbhakts and their father like savarkar golvalker loved and supported Hitler but now when these traitor Jews are killing innocent Palestinians they are supporting these traitor Jews it tells about their mentality that they always support the cruels
Most students simply do not care lmao. Just because you see a couple of opinionated instagram / wa posts doesn't mean everyone holds an opinion (let alone be an educated opinion) on the issue.
You think they checked IDs and history before they kidnapped, raped and tortured ? Do you have to be personally affected by something to know right from wrong ?
The second biggest group in the hostages kept by Hamas were workers from Thailand. Did you know that ?
Islamic jihad puts at danger any one who doesn’t not subscribe to it. That’s what religious fundamentalism is. It’s not more complicated than that. And if you want a world with equality and democracy and freedom- you should be against any form of it.
Of course you might not have those principles. Maybe you’ve just bought lock stock and barrel into one set of political beliefs as if you were choosing a tribe and act upon received wisdom instead of thinking for yourself about your morals.
Because Hamas is Islamic terrorism. Their mission is Jehad and make the whole world Muslim using sword. Those who don't accept Islam must be killed. No other freedom movement is like this.
That last bit is not true. You can google it. Less than a quarter of Israelis were migrants from Europe. Most Israelis are literally natives to that land or are migrants from surrounding Islamic countries that were hounded out of there.
Geopolitics is full on bakchodi and we can take on as many hypocritical stands as possible. Morality comes second and betterment of our nation (even at the cost of others) takes center stage (I think). We are on good terms with Israel but we are also on good terms with Iran and Qatar which directly enable Hamas.
Historically Israel has always been fought over for. Religious zealots have wanted the "Holy Land" to be under their control even if it means dousing it with blood. Add to that some great British border making and you've got this nice big box of black powder.
Also, modern Israelis are mostly of European origin who were given land by the Brits and UN. Majority in Israel are not direct descendants of people of Hebrews of Moses or Judea.
Never thought I'll read a long comment on legallyindia and leave in a better state. You can't argue with these kids when despite seeing what Hamas did in that concert, they're ready to parrot this BS. All your points are well articulated and garnished with facts. I dare any kid on here to reply to it - point wise (without ad hominem)
Not all Indians do so but those who do I want to say that hate for Muslims has paralyzed their brains when Hitler killed these traitor Jews they supported Hitler now now when these traitors are killing Muslims they are supporting them
One big reason is the influence of right wing politics that has become very apparent in the past 10 years. BJP IT cell with its army of troll bots keeps farming hate and pumping out pro Israel content.
But even then, I'd say,
1) Supporting Palestinians as Indians would eventually open the door for questioning India's equation with Kashmir. Muslims across the world know as much about the Kashmir issue as Indians know about the Israel-Palestine conflict, but guess which propaganda they are willing to digest? That the poor Kashmiris and Pakistanis are totally innocent deers being hunted by Indian predators. For them, and the rest of the world, it would be very apparent hypocrisy to support the "decolonization" of Palestine but not of Kashmir. Do you really think anyone, in this day and age of fake news and twitter opinions will read an op-ed discussing the nuances differences in the situations, the history and the context? No one will. Right wing Muslims dont care about right or wrong, they only care about Islamic dominance over the world. It's the same thing RWers everywhere. Thus, even India supporting Palestine will only be met with suspicion in the Muslim world, with the added disadvantage of pissing off Israel.
2) From a geopolitical perspective, being Israel's ally is far far better than being Palestine's ally. All rich western countries are supporting Israel. We are a poor country, and Israel is a desert that evolved into a high income country through the proper allocation of resources and investment, and their R&D expertise will be of immense aid to us. What do the Palestinians have to offer to us? Hamas? Poems about freedom? No thanks. If it comes down to one, I'd rather be with Israel, which can offer great help to a largely poor country like ours as opposed to another poor country rife with radical Islam.
India's support for Israel in this conflict stems from the October 7 Hamas Attack. The Palestinians are consistent and resolute in their demand – "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," underscoring their fundamental opposition to a two-state resolution.
Now, all well-meaning liberals would say, "Hey, why not? Can't the Jews and Arabs peacefully coexist?" The answer, my friends, lies in present-day Palestine and the prevailing temperament there towards the Jews. They have literally zero tolerance for them. And Gaza is absolutely out of the question! Crucially, the Hamas Charter unabashedly advocates for the eradication of Jews. It is imperative to discern this conflict not merely as a territorial dispute but, rather, as an antisemitic imbroglio, draped in the guise of a territorial altercation.
We must therefore support any endeavour to root Hamas out of existence.
Consider that smart decent people may just disagree with you. I’m on the left and support most left wing causes.
1) I don’t think israel is a colonialist project. The britishers actually during the holocaust limited Jewish immigration while not fettering Arab Muslim immigration into that land.
2) not just biblically but historically - the jewish people are indigenous to judea. They have been expelled from that land by Palestinians , British , Romans , ottoman Turks , Arabs - whatever - they have still always returned there because it is their home. If there is a native to that land - it’s Jews.
3) how is Gaza and West Bank an open air prison when hundreds of thousands of Gaza soldiers could go into Israel on work visas on October 6th ? How is it an open air prison when one side of that border for Gaza is adjoining Egypt? Having borders do not make something an open air prison. If Hamas and Palestinians want to have a violent antagonistic relationship with their neighbors- if they decide to send in rockets to kill children in schools - they can’t very well play the victim when their neighbour decides to blockade ?
How is it both an open air prison and Hamas and Palestine have their own rockets that they routinely shoot at Israel ?
4) Bhagat Singh and nelson Mandela did not rape women or kill babies. They attacked the state. There is an undeniable moral difference. If Bhagat Singh and Nelson Mandela had raped British women and murdered babies we would not be celebrating them as freedom fighters. And in case you forgot our history- it is entirely possible - no matter the oppression - to resist nonviolently. Gandhi did that Martin Luther king did that. That is what resistance actually looks like.
5) Hamas is not a home grown political organisation that has gotten radicalised. Hamas is funded by Iran- where do you think they get the guns and the missiles and the bombs from ? Hamas and the PLO have rejected 5 times a two state solution. 5 times israel has offered them good land - more land than they have now. And they have walked away without a counter offer. That is not an actor who wants the best for Palestinian people. That is a religious fundamentalist who wants a religious war. Have you read the Hamas charter ? They talk more about wanting to kill and eradicate Jews than they do about prosperity for Palestinians. Millions and millions of dollars of aid has routinely gone into West Bank and Gaza - where is the development ? Why are their kids dying without clean water? It’s because Hamas and the PLO are corrupt and feckless and hide behind babies and women.
Think about it for one second - where are the female Palestinian “freedom fighters”? I can name you a number of women freedom fighters in the Indian freedom movement, I can name
you female soldiers for israel, Golda Meir was one of the most important prime ministers of Israel. Where are Palestinian women ? This one thing is not like the other. Our movement was about freedom and self rule for all- their movement is about religious fundamentalism.
5) simply googling will tell you that israel has found Hamas in the West Bank too. Maybe instead of parroting that comedian dude read ground reports and history. Israel has not been in Gaza since 2005. What have the Palestinians done for themselves in those 17 years?
West Bank - israel won the West Bank in the 1948 war where one newly born jewish state fought 6 Arab states. Israel won it back from Jordan in the 6 day work in 1967. Fair is fair right - if you lose a war you provoked - why are you then the victim ? You lost the damn wars! Nevertheless Israel offered in 1997- that’s 26 years ago now - to pull entirely out of the West Bank and go back to pre 1967 borders in the Oslo accords. The Oslo accords failed because the plo walked away without even a counter offer. Because these are not humanitarian freedom fighters - they are religious fundamentalists who want Jews to be driven into the Mediterranean Sea. Any two state solution is unacceptable to them. That is why you won’t have a two state solution in the Middle East.
You’re in such an information bubble it is laughable. I’m sure Israeli governments have done horrible things. I blame Netanyahu for Hamas being so powerful. But you act as if israel is the only one with somewhat questionable internal policies over the years. When Hamas came to power in Gaza - they threw their opposition - the fatah off buildings. They routinely kill and torture their own lgbt citizens . What rights do religious minorities have with Hamas in charge ? What happens to Christians in Gaza ? What rights do women have with Hamas in charge ? You think these “freedom fighters” only rape Israeli women ? You don’t think that man goes back home and beats his wife up ? Israel has constantly had female representatives in the Knesset. They have Arabs and Christians who are in their parliament on their Supreme Court - can Hamas say the same about their rule in Gaza ?
There is a difference between a state having some bad internal policies that were a result of over zealous right wing assholes and then admitting to and correcting their behaviour when it’s proven. And largely having a democratic government with rights for minorities and rights for women. And a religious fundamentalist state which has no place for women in public life and murders anyone who disagrees with their religious mandates as a matter of policy - proudly in broad daylight. There is a difference when a state inadvertently harms civilians because they are being used as human shields, and a mob of thugs who gleefully video themselves raping women and killing babies, taking hostages , and then hiding behind schools and hospitals and using them as human shields.
This history is long and complex and started before you began to pay attention and is more complex than
Instagram will allow. To assume everyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or bigoted doesn’t betray a point of view that is curious and compassionate to human suffering.
Because half of them dont know jack about world history or politics and the other half are driven by hatred against a particular religeon that has been fuelled by the ruling establishment.
Modern Israeli State is essentially a British- American settlement project.
People who are living in an open air prison for 70 years are bound to revolt, HAMAS came into existence because of oppression not vice versa.
I mean we were oppressed for years and we fought back, Bhagat Singh, Azad and other freedom fighters were terrorists as per west.
Hell Nelson Mandela was a terrorist according to US.
Forget Gaza israel keeps taking over property and settling people in West bank, there is no HAMAS there.
Israel has kidnapped thousands and thousands of children and women and has kept them in prisons without trial, they have stolen organs from murdered Palestinians, they gave birth control to black Jews without their consent.
just because a book says the land belong to them doesn't mean it does, I don't think any of us would be open to quietly giving up our home if some tribal guy came and told us this land belonged to him from a 1000 years back.
Remember who is really the RAPIST? Israelis beat everyone at this by raping Palestinian girls/women since 1948 and beyond:
https://youtu.be/XjTxDYtNhno?si=N3xXwvDP9GOu7_vM
EVERY SINGLE ZIONIST ACCUSATION IS A CONFESSION!
And people saying about killings and all the truth is any country do no give a fuck about human rights untill it somehow benefits them eg- Afganistan and many african countries.
PS: Douglas Murray hates immigrants & people of color so not sure how you bringing him up as a credible source makes you look like.
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3244398/why-israels-propaganda-war-has-been-just-complete-mess
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/14665
https://www.fairobserver.com/world-news/israel-copies-us-propaganda-to-mask-its-illegal-bombing/
https://www.liberationnews.org/us-israel-manufacture-atrocities-to-justify-war-crimes/
https://time.com/6366734/palestinian-child-detainees/
https://time.com/6548068/palestinian-children-israeli-prison-arrested/
https://www.btselem.org/statistics/minors_in_custody
https://www.omct.org/en/resources/urgent-interventions/israel-palestinian-children-still-being-tortured-in-israeli-prisons
https://www.omct.org/en/resources/urgent-interventions/israel-palestinian-children-ill-treated-and-tortured-while-in-detention
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95J0FR/
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian
https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/11/03/israel-has-a-history-of-killing-maiming-and-torturing-palestinian-children/
https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/amnesty-report-claims-israel-kills-tortures-palestinian-children-543395
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/torture-and-abuse-children-fleeing-gazas-humanitarian
And THIS ONE YOU MUST SEE: https://heritageposts.tumblr.com/post/732663199530418176/the-new-fabricated-piece-of-israeli-atrocity
You also need to read historical books written by Israeli new historians dealing with what actually happened to the Palestinians back then like Ilan Pappé, Avi Shlaim & Benny Morris etc but hey bringing up arguments from WhatsApp Israeli Uni is so much better na
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasin_(RPG)#:~:text=The%20Yasin%20(Arabic%3A%20%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B3%D9%8A%D9%86),)%20on%20March%2022%2C%202004.&text=Iron%20or%20telescopic%20sights.
https://glarity.app/youtube-summary/news-politics/Manufactured-in-tunnelsthe-most-dangerous-Hamas-17291878_247223
5) About the west bank, against khAmAs khAmAs, back up your claims please with sources ofcourse. You need to know the whole ass history of Fatah and how it got infiltrated by agents for the Mossad & Shin Bet and how that very reason paved the way for Hamas popularity in the West Bank and therefore created small poorly armed groups of freedom fighters precisely in Jenin Camp. And about the wars you mentioned there are so many aspects and factors you left out, like WHY those wars happened and how Israel illegally annexed Gaza and the West Bank besides the Golan Heights. The Oslo accords were a joke, it literally gave 78% of the land to the Israeli occupation only for them to withdraw form Gaza and the West Bank while still occupying Jerusalem precisely East Jerusalem which had led to tension and Israel took advantage of that at the time to completely take over Jerusalem and didn't let any presence of the Palestinian authority and the West supported Israel in doing so by stopping any Palestinian official activity in Jerusalem. And then they started destroying Palestinian homes in Jerusalem for years till now to build illegal settlements and oh you missed out Rabin's assassination by a fellow Israeli.
1) Israel was since the earliest beginnings of it's attempts at creation, a proxy colonialist project for the western powers back then for imperialist reasons like benefitting from land resources in the heart of the middle east.
In 1920, Britain assumed responsibility for Palestine under a League of Nations Mandate. During the next two decades, over 100,000 Jews entered the country.
The British Army's operations in Palestine during this period were mainly directed against militant Arab groups who were opposed to this mass Jewish immigration. Violence reached a height with the Arab Revolt of 1936-39 while the British Army started training Jewish militias like the infamous Haganah to opress and repress the Arab uprisings.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/may/31/londonreviewofbooks
2) Historically speaking not biblically Mr Anti-Religious fundamentalism, what happened now? When it comes to Jews you draw the line and suddenly start believing the Bible? Anyways, Canaanites & Philistines were there before the Israelites and are genetically similar to the Palestinians of today unlike how the Israelites of back then aren't actually genetically similar to modern day "Israelis" who are majority Ashkenazi and from other random parts of the world. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-11-14/ty-article-opinion/the-twisted-logic-of-the-jewish-historic-right-to-israel/0000017f-db53-d3ff-a7ff-fbf3bcc50000 https://www.indstate.edu/cas/sites/arts.indstate.edu/files/Faculty/melyassini/NSOCJ_1_0.PDF and unlike the Israelite Jews, the Arab Philistines stayed in their land for generations continuously while the Jews stayed INTERMITTENTLY. So coming after 2000 years to throw someone out of their home and claim it as yours as per what your book says is a terrorist act! But hey the Arabs are victims here so who cares? We only care when the Jews are hurt.
3) for this one you just need some basic education and learning: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/07/gaza-who-lives-there-and-why-it-has-been-blockaded-for-so-longhttps://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3dhttps://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/why-gaza-is-known-as-the-worlds-biggest-open-air-prison-8978189/https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/world/story/gaza-strip-blockade-israel-world-largest-open-air-prison-2452669-2023-10-23#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17083780555046&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.comhttps://www.wionews.com/world/explained-how-gaza-strip-became-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison-646668
4) Again the rape and murdered babies atrocity propaganda that got exposed and debunked SO many times. Well on the other hand look up this:https://www.cair.com/cair_in_the_news/israeli-guards-rape-palestinian-women/https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/un-experts-appalled-by-reported-rights-violations-against-palestinian-women-girls/3142105https://www.eui.eu/events?id=547024https://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/conflict-and-society/9/1/arcs090105.xmlhttps://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/statement-un-experts-israels-violations-against-palestinian-women-girls-welcomed-euro-med-monitor#:~:text=%E2%80%9CAt%20least%20two%20female%20Palestinian,and%20uploaded%20to%20the%20Internet.https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/statement-un-experts-israels-violations-against-palestinian-women-girls-welcomed-euro-med-monitor
https://jordantimes.com/opinion/ramzy-baroud/untold-story-abuse-palestinian-women-https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/jps/tantura.html hebron https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-726466
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/terrorists-and-freedom-fighters-terrorism-how-west-can-win-p-25-36
5) Again, you have no idea about the history of the creation of Hamas ideologically & militant wise, neither the Palestinian political history, you're just parroting the zionist talking points as if you're their Indian spokesman. Hamas as a rightful Armed Resistance had it's Islamic theological beginnings to draw more people in to fight back against the brutal occupation and nothing can beat Islamic spirituality in that but you're not an Arab or a Muslim so you wouldn't know. Then they had very humble beginnings in their skills of fighting till the late 2000s precisely since 2006, after the blockade Iran as the only country directly supporting them military wise started to send them aid and nothing wrong with that, where's the wrong in here? And how is it any different than other western countries not only sending aid but also supporting genocides and wars throughout history till now like USA/UK/Germany/France etc...or any other country supporting a common interest and fighting off a common enemy. I'm sure India would do the same with Pak when it comes to Kashmir. Hamas was democratically elected and chosen and still supported, now even more since we can all see why were they right, now that everything got exposed except for the people with blind hearts who can't see. Oh and about the two states "solution" you really wanna talk about this? Okay let's start with 1947 partition plan https://www.jstor.org/stable/4321940https://www.salon.com/2015/11/30/u_n_voted_to_partition_palestine_68_years_ago_in_an_unfair_plan_made_even_worse_by_israels_ethnic_cleansing/ by this logic, you invade these people's lands claiming that it was a land without people while ethnically cleaning those people then throwing them out and never letting them return, making them refugees in their own lands, and you claim that land was given to you thousands years ago even if you never actually stayed in that land for generations as those refugee people did, then you demand the partition and the bigger part for yourself even if you were actually a minority and give the rest to the refugee majority, then frame yourself as the victim when they start rejecting and revolting. Plo, Hamas and all of them have every single right to reject the unjust illegal partition plan so called 2 state solution...
Zakia Shamout etc...
====================
Abu Shusha Massacre (May 1948)
Tantura Massacre (May 1948)
Lydda Massacre (July 1948)
Saliha Massacre (October 1948
Al-Dawayima Massacre (October, 1948)
Qibya Massacre (October 1953)
Kafr Qasim Massacre (October 1956)
Khan Yunis Massacre (November 1956
Sabra and Shatila Massacres (September 1982
Al-Aqsa Massacre (October 1990)
The Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre (February 1994)
Jenin Refugee Camp (April 2002)
2008-09: The Gaza Massacre
2014 massacres
2018-2019 attack on Palestinians
2021: sheikh jarrah atrocities
2023: the gnocde of Palestinians live streamed!
It included: destruction, bombing, burning, maiming, stealing, torture, killing women and children, desecration of mosques, burning qur'ans, etc.
The war against the Palestinians did not start in 2023. It's been going on for over a century."
https://cigacriticalvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-book-1983.pdf
There is a pictorial book published by Sami Al Arian in 1938. It documents Zionist and British atrocities perpetrated against the Palestinians between 1921-1938.
It included: destruction, bombing, burning, maiming, stealing, torture, killing women and children, desecration of mosques, burning qur'ans, etc.
The war against the Palestinians did not start in 2023. It's been going on for over a century."
https://cigacriticalvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/The-book-1983.pdf
Question to you: before 1987 when hamas was created as an armed defense for defenseless unarmed Palestinians, who were the zionists fighting? And how many massacres they've committed against Palestinians under the eyes of "british mandate"? And how many Palestinians were kidnapped, taken into prisons of torture since 1967? 800,000 Palestinians "Imprisoned" indiscriminately till now, thousands of children, women, elderly taken into captivity, kidnapped and illegally abducted! They ARE THE HOSTAGES. But we don't see the likes of you caring do we? Cause they're not white , they're not jewish they're just some muslim arabs who dared omg they dared to resist and fight back one of the last tails of western imperialism in our countries, Israel.
Israelis are held to the exact standard that im holding Palestinians to. Israelis have voted Bibi out twice before this and they will vote him out again. Did you know hes in a poorly held together coalition? that he didnt win outright like dictators do? Israelis have set up a democracy for themselves with a range of political parties and do often change their mind. The reason Israel gets more favorable treatment is because Israel is the ONLY party in the middle east to pursue peace. to give away land to try and buy peace. When israelis left the west bank they pulled their dead out of their graves and took the dead with them. When Israelis left Gaza they left behind hundreds of high tech green houses that could have provided food and employment for Gazans but they were destroyed by Palestinians. They did all of that unilaterally- they had no reason to other than- they have demonstrated that they wanted to pursue peace. Hamas and Palestinians have not demonstrated that at all. 5 times in modern history Hamas and PLO were offered good land- more land than they have now- for peace. And they declined without a counter offer 5 times- these people arent interested in peace , theyre interested in the whole thing because they think its their exclusive religious birthright. I disagree with that approach.
"Israelis didn't give any land that US and other powers didn't acquire for them forcefully to begin with" - I dont agree with that characterisation at all. I think its very skewed and biased. Of course israel has found a military partner in US. Where do you think Hamas' rockets and bombs come from? Do they grow them in the field? Its Irani money. I dont resent Israel for protecting itself with defensive wars in its history. They have that right like every other country in the world. They only had that land because since 1948 a newly formed jewish state has been attacked by all its neighbors and mostly won that land in battle. If pakistan attacked us tomorrow and we defended ourselves and took some land- I wouldnt call that colonisation. Thats just war. Unprovoked war at that. And Israel exists and has a right to continue its existence.
"Palestinians got their human rights violated in Gaza on a daily basis by Israeli forces even before October". This is not all the way true. On October 6th there were thousands of palestinians who could go to work in israel , live in israel, and go back home when they wished to. Since 2005 israel left Gaza- completely left it- in the control of a Hamas government voted in by palestinians. How is it israeli responsibility then whether Gazans can provide for themselves?. It is not an open air prison because Israel wishes to protect its own citizens from crimes. And it is not an open air prison because Israel imposes a blockade on a hostile neighbor that wants israel gone. Israel doesnt owe palestinians that and its ridiculous to characterise that as some human rights violation. I think if you want your own independence and your own government- it kind of becomes your governments job to provide for you. It wont do for unemployed and underfed Indians to blame Bangladesh or Srilanka or America for being unemployed and underfed- they have to hold their government accountable. What has Hamas done for Palestinians in the 17 years theyve been in charge of Gaza? How many hospitals and schools and universities did they build? Why are palestinian kids dying without potable water? Why do rockets get prioritised over that? Could it be that theyre feckless and corrupt and know that spreading anti semitism is easier than actually building something for their kids? The reason Hamas gets any support is because there is jew hatred and people want Israel to not exist. The choice for palestinians wasnt support hamas/ israel- thats a false equivalency. Its like saying the choice for Indians is to support Modi/ Pakistan. We have other parties and a democracy we have protected to enable us to hold our governments accountable. The choice for palestinians has always been- support hamas or support any other palestinian opposition party- and theyve sadly always chosen hamas. And as long as they do- they will continue to be at war with israel and they will continue to lose.
Read your history.
If you want "proof" of hamas' atrocities on Oct 7- youre in an information bubble so deep you wont ever come out. They can prove it to you- they live-streamed their atrocities. Youve lost all credibility with that.
Im sure Israel like most other countries in this world has had errant soldiers do awful things. I havent seen any proof that it is a matter of state policy to rape or torture or target children. If Palestinians raise their kids to cross the borders and stab israelis- perhaps those kids should be removed from that influence and helped. I notice also you didnt name a single female palestinian freedom fighter, proved my point.
I dont care about your identity and whatever authority you want to claim based on your identity. Your identity doesnt give you any authority. If I were algerian today, I would be more angry at dictators who violate human rights than the french who left- a while ago. What are you even doing on a site called legally india?
We had colonisation here as well- but it wont do to be stuck in the past- so we move on- take any scholarships and jobs UK will offer us, and find a better life, and try and get a democracy going in our home country.
No one has any problem with muslims educating themselves, becoming doctors and engineers, and educating their kids, and working hard and getting out of poverty and making a good life for themselves. We have a problem with them "fighting back" by raping, killing, and kidnapping grandmas and babies. Please show me one freedom fighter who did things like that. the west- and the entire world makes that differentiation. Its not cause theyre all islamophobic- its cause they have a smidge of morality.
First and foremost, India is surrounded by 2 great nuclear friends. One is a Superpower & other is a crazy power. Me personally, I think the crazy power is a bigger threat because slowly, it has lost its ability to reason. You can still somehow reason with the superpower, because it has bigger fish than us to fry.
Toh pehle toh apni jaan bacha le. Tell me who is USA or any European kid to tell us what should we do? Are they surrounded by 2 nuclear-powered arch enemies with live LOC and LAC? So, should their ideals be applied to our nascent independent nation? Shouldn't our military have top quality weapons too?
The Pak airforce has bloody F16s. Abhinandan fought with F16s. PM Modi said if we had Rafael at that time, result would have been different.
Do you understand the gravity of the situation? We are in a nuclear neighbourhood with 2 good enough militaries with top class weapons on our throats at all times. Unless we are prepared, we will be eliminated. So, all of our thought process has to have the defence component.
Most of our weapons are still imported. We have been building Arjuna tank for last 14y. Tejas is still not fully deployed. After 75+ y we still buy weapons from foreign nations, so much for our greatness.
The Modi govt. allowed the foreign companies to start manufacturing in India and sell to Indian military and create JVs. Shouldn't the UPA or Congress should have done it long ago? Like cycle manufacture Hero, which later created a JV with Honda to create Hero Honda, and later parted ways, our big firms would have learnt a great deal by now. But, the secular Congress & UPA did not allow this. Why? Kickback kam ho jate na.
Literally as an Indian Engineer before 2015, you could not have created a defence tech company an sold to Indian military. Why? Aren't any Indian capable enough? Because you wanted to promote some failed shit called Socialism? No. You wanted India to continue importing weapons so that you could earn kickbacks.
How does Israel comes in this picture? Israel has helped India militarily many times.
- Israel supplied India with armaments, ammunition, and intelligence during the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 and the Indo-Pakistani War of 19991.
- Israel was in middle of an arms shortage in 1971, but prime minister Golda Meir stepped in to divert arms meant for Iran to India. Israel gave India 160 mm Tempella mortars during the 1971 war2.
- As of 2022, India is Israel’s largest client for military equipment sales, and Israel is India’s second-largest supplier of military equipment after Russia. Approximately 42.1% of all Israeli arms exports are received by India1.
- Israel and India have also been engaged in defence technology cooperation. They have jointly developed the Barak 8 missile defence system and the Phalcon airborne early warning and control system3.
- Israel has also provided India with artillery guns, guided munitions, and mortar systems through a collaboration between Elbit Systems and Bharat Forge3
- Israel helped India during the Kargil War in 1999 by supplying mortars, ammunition, laser-guided missiles, and surveillance drones1.
- Israel became a major partner in the EU satellite program in 2021, which provides GPS capabilities for civilian and military purposes. Israel also agreed to share its satellite data with India, enhancing its navigation and security systems2.
- Israel and India have jointly developed the Hermes 900 drones, which are capable of carrying out reconnaissance and aerial bombardments
Jab agli baar aapki Army aur Air Force officers, ammunition aur missile ki emergency purchase karne bhaage bhaage Israel jae, toh yeh puchna, Is this the promised land? Why not buying weapons from secular states. Weapons are wrong. Peace is good.
Apna desh bacha lo. Phir Nehruji ki tarah morality pe gyan dena aur non alignment, non alignment chillana.
War against terrorism
The second biggest group in the hostages kept by Hamas were workers from Thailand. Did you know that ?
Islamic jihad puts at danger any one who doesn’t not subscribe to it. That’s what religious fundamentalism is. It’s not more complicated than that. And if you want a world with equality and democracy and freedom- you should be against any form of it.
Of course you might not have those principles. Maybe you’ve just bought lock stock and barrel into one set of political beliefs as if you were choosing a tribe and act upon received wisdom instead of thinking for yourself about your morals.
Historically Israel has always been fought over for. Religious zealots have wanted the "Holy Land" to be under their control even if it means dousing it with blood. Add to that some great British border making and you've got this nice big box of black powder.
Also, modern Israelis are mostly of European origin who were given land by the Brits and UN. Majority in Israel are not direct descendants of people of Hebrews of Moses or Judea.
Make what you want of it.
But even then, I'd say,
1) Supporting Palestinians as Indians would eventually open the door for questioning India's equation with Kashmir. Muslims across the world know as much about the Kashmir issue as Indians know about the Israel-Palestine conflict, but guess which propaganda they are willing to digest? That the poor Kashmiris and Pakistanis are totally innocent deers being hunted by Indian predators. For them, and the rest of the world, it would be very apparent hypocrisy to support the "decolonization" of Palestine but not of Kashmir. Do you really think anyone, in this day and age of fake news and twitter opinions will read an op-ed discussing the nuances differences in the situations, the history and the context? No one will. Right wing Muslims dont care about right or wrong, they only care about Islamic dominance over the world. It's the same thing RWers everywhere. Thus, even India supporting Palestine will only be met with suspicion in the Muslim world, with the added disadvantage of pissing off Israel.
2) From a geopolitical perspective, being Israel's ally is far far better than being Palestine's ally. All rich western countries are supporting Israel. We are a poor country, and Israel is a desert that evolved into a high income country through the proper allocation of resources and investment, and their R&D expertise will be of immense aid to us. What do the Palestinians have to offer to us? Hamas? Poems about freedom? No thanks. If it comes down to one, I'd rather be with Israel, which can offer great help to a largely poor country like ours as opposed to another poor country rife with radical Islam.
Now, all well-meaning liberals would say, "Hey, why not? Can't the Jews and Arabs peacefully coexist?" The answer, my friends, lies in present-day Palestine and the prevailing temperament there towards the Jews. They have literally zero tolerance for them. And Gaza is absolutely out of the question! Crucially, the Hamas Charter unabashedly advocates for the eradication of Jews. It is imperative to discern this conflict not merely as a territorial dispute but, rather, as an antisemitic imbroglio, draped in the guise of a territorial altercation.
We must therefore support any endeavour to root Hamas out of existence.
Don't believe me? Watch this -
https://youtu.be/kCspBrAOy-g?si=xY8ply0F6-DdUfIR
https://youtu.be/pjOEJumoABg?si=twN7hAWiZp2GrW6Q
https://youtube.com/shorts/vcGxtTYLmio?si=-rEuBHuC8SuyR8lz
1) I don’t think israel is a colonialist project. The britishers actually during the holocaust limited Jewish immigration while not fettering Arab Muslim immigration into that land.
2) not just biblically but historically - the jewish people are indigenous to judea. They have been expelled from that land by Palestinians , British , Romans , ottoman Turks , Arabs - whatever - they have still always returned there because it is their home. If there is a native to that land - it’s Jews.
3) how is Gaza and West Bank an open air prison when hundreds of thousands of Gaza soldiers could go into Israel on work visas on October 6th ? How is it an open air prison when one side of that border for Gaza is adjoining Egypt? Having borders do not make something an open air prison. If Hamas and Palestinians want to have a violent antagonistic relationship with their neighbors- if they decide to send in rockets to kill children in schools - they can’t very well play the victim when their neighbour decides to blockade ?
How is it both an open air prison and Hamas and Palestine have their own rockets that they routinely shoot at Israel ?
4) Bhagat Singh and nelson Mandela did not rape women or kill babies. They attacked the state. There is an undeniable moral difference. If Bhagat Singh and Nelson Mandela had raped British women and murdered babies we would not be celebrating them as freedom fighters. And in case you forgot our history- it is entirely possible - no matter the oppression - to resist nonviolently. Gandhi did that Martin Luther king did that. That is what resistance actually looks like.
5) Hamas is not a home grown political organisation that has gotten radicalised. Hamas is funded by Iran- where do you think they get the guns and the missiles and the bombs from ? Hamas and the PLO have rejected 5 times a two state solution. 5 times israel has offered them good land - more land than they have now. And they have walked away without a counter offer. That is not an actor who wants the best for Palestinian people. That is a religious fundamentalist who wants a religious war. Have you read the Hamas charter ? They talk more about wanting to kill and eradicate Jews than they do about prosperity for Palestinians. Millions and millions of dollars of aid has routinely gone into West Bank and Gaza - where is the development ? Why are their kids dying without clean water? It’s because Hamas and the PLO are corrupt and feckless and hide behind babies and women.
Think about it for one second - where are the female Palestinian “freedom fighters”? I can name you a number of women freedom fighters in the Indian freedom movement, I can name
you female soldiers for israel, Golda Meir was one of the most important prime ministers of Israel. Where are Palestinian women ? This one thing is not like the other. Our movement was about freedom and self rule for all- their movement is about religious fundamentalism.
5) simply googling will tell you that israel has found Hamas in the West Bank too. Maybe instead of parroting that comedian dude read ground reports and history. Israel has not been in Gaza since 2005. What have the Palestinians done for themselves in those 17 years?
West Bank - israel won the West Bank in the 1948 war where one newly born jewish state fought 6 Arab states. Israel won it back from Jordan in the 6 day work in 1967. Fair is fair right - if you lose a war you provoked - why are you then the victim ? You lost the damn wars! Nevertheless Israel offered in 1997- that’s 26 years ago now - to pull entirely out of the West Bank and go back to pre 1967 borders in the Oslo accords. The Oslo accords failed because the plo walked away without even a counter offer. Because these are not humanitarian freedom fighters - they are religious fundamentalists who want Jews to be driven into the Mediterranean Sea. Any two state solution is unacceptable to them. That is why you won’t have a two state solution in the Middle East.
You’re in such an information bubble it is laughable. I’m sure Israeli governments have done horrible things. I blame Netanyahu for Hamas being so powerful. But you act as if israel is the only one with somewhat questionable internal policies over the years. When Hamas came to power in Gaza - they threw their opposition - the fatah off buildings. They routinely kill and torture their own lgbt citizens . What rights do religious minorities have with Hamas in charge ? What happens to Christians in Gaza ? What rights do women have with Hamas in charge ? You think these “freedom fighters” only rape Israeli women ? You don’t think that man goes back home and beats his wife up ? Israel has constantly had female representatives in the Knesset. They have Arabs and Christians who are in their parliament on their Supreme Court - can Hamas say the same about their rule in Gaza ?
There is a difference between a state having some bad internal policies that were a result of over zealous right wing assholes and then admitting to and correcting their behaviour when it’s proven. And largely having a democratic government with rights for minorities and rights for women. And a religious fundamentalist state which has no place for women in public life and murders anyone who disagrees with their religious mandates as a matter of policy - proudly in broad daylight. There is a difference when a state inadvertently harms civilians because they are being used as human shields, and a mob of thugs who gleefully video themselves raping women and killing babies, taking hostages , and then hiding behind schools and hospitals and using them as human shields.
This history is long and complex and started before you began to pay attention and is more complex than
Instagram will allow. To assume everyone who disagrees with you is either stupid or bigoted doesn’t betray a point of view that is curious and compassionate to human suffering.
We Indians have no fucking brains of our own!
People who are living in an open air prison for 70 years are bound to revolt, HAMAS came into existence because of oppression not vice versa.
I mean we were oppressed for years and we fought back, Bhagat Singh, Azad and other freedom fighters were terrorists as per west.
Hell Nelson Mandela was a terrorist according to US.
Forget Gaza israel keeps taking over property and settling people in West bank, there is no HAMAS there.
Israel has kidnapped thousands and thousands of children and women and has kept them in prisons without trial, they have stolen organs from murdered Palestinians, they gave birth control to black Jews without their consent.
just because a book says the land belong to them doesn't mean it does, I don't think any of us would be open to quietly giving up our home if some tribal guy came and told us this land belonged to him from a 1000 years back.