We arent harassed because of some vague notion of patriarchy. We are harassed because of the material reality of our sexed bodies. Our bodies are weaker and more vulnerable and we had to prove time after time in court and legislature and in courts again that we are harassed and assaulted and murdered because of our sexed bodies. We werent allowed entry into workplaces or educational institutions because of our sexed bodies. We wouldn't be treated better if we used he pronouns and dressed butch.

You do not get to piggyback/ forced-team on the few hard-fought gains of the women's movement. If you want to argue that you are harassed because of your body- you will have to prove that. Who are you harassed by and what is the harassment of which you speak. You will have to go to courts and legislatures and make your case. Just because women have something does not mean they are obligated to share it with you. This is every kid on the play ground trying to take away his sisters ice cream after throwing his in the dirt. Except no one wants to call you on it because you play on peoples pity. The one thing men in this country dont feel for women- pity. No means no. Get over it.

We need a gendered law to protect us from male aggression. thats it. If you want a gender neutral law- we are at cross purposes. Females dont sexually harass males by and large. There may be very rare exceptions but it is not a problem at a large scale. We need gendered laws that recognises this material documented well evidenced fact. If males want to make the case that they are "oppressed" then they need to show evidence.

No, we don't need to show any such evidence, simply for the reason you haven't needed to show any in order to enjoy the fruits of other people's labour. Yes, we get to build on the works of people before us, that's what progress means. You don't get to choose whom the law would protect other than you.

You’re not building. You’re tearing down. Women absolutely have shown evidence of the harms they suffer. That’s how any legal change happens. What exactly do you think Bhanwari and Vishakha and Nirbhaya and me too we’re about ? Do you think we protested and organised and worked on laws and cases for funsies?. Women don’t get to decide what protections you have - but they do get to defend the protections they have.

No one is arguing that you have to personally fight for all your rights. What a ridiculous strawman. Groups make group rights claims. These protections exist because womens rights groups have made these claims. You have the right to prove your oppression. one category does not have the right to "piggyback" or coopt anyone elses oppression and struggle for their own ends. Especially when those people are from the oppressing category. Females made gains for womens rights. if were using them to serve the needs of anyone else- that would be coopting. Piggyback is what a mother gives her baby. Use the right word.

Replace it with any other category and youll see the foolishness. Dalits in this country have faced ages of discrimination and violence. They finally got laws to criminalise all that discrimination and violence. They finally got laws on the books for reserved categories in jobs and education. Now imagine if tomorrow some jains feel bad about how they are treated by the caste system too. Do they just get to change the prevention of atrocities acts or the reservation schemes to the detriment of dalits? what if they really believe in their oppression? Should we change the caste based reservation schemes to make them more inclusive? should we change atrocities legislation to attack all violence and not just caste based violence?

No other group is expected to make room for and accomodate their oppressor class in their movement. Its only expected from women. Why do you think that is?

You can be a female and have bad ideas too. Dont worry.

You sound like a kid on the play ground who threw his own ice cream on the ground and is now mad his sister wont "share". Get your own. We need gendered laws for a reason, an empirically proved, well evidenced reason. If you want to change that- you are in fact reducing protections for women. People are allowed to disagree with you on stuff while being reasonable.

Wow. I agree you won’t need to show evidence because you’re males and males are believed in our society as opposed to females. But when you say “ you haven’t needed to show any evidence in order to enjoy the fruits of other peoples labour” you seek to erase the entire history of the womens rights movement. Educate yourself.

Building on other peoples work is not the same as co-opting their struggles for your own purposes. The latter strips the oppressed group of their victories and repurposes any gains made in law to serve another groups interests. That’s what you’re doing by suggesting that gendered laws for sexual harassment should be replaced by gender neutral laws because of some vague notion of “ progress”.

You don’t get to unilaterally decide what “progress” is. As righteously as you might believe in gender woo woo and some received wisdom about what progress looks like - you still might be very wrong. Decent progressive people do disagree with you and they do get to do that.

I haven't coopted anyone's struggle. I'm sorry but you're gonna have to do better than "no u" when faced with a reasonable argument.

I'm not "gatekeeping" anything. Womanhood and femaleness are not a tv show or a fandom. Women are more than an idea in your head. they are fully realized autonomous people. Not everyone gets to be a woman because of biology. Are cats gatekeeping dogs from being cats? Your argument is with evolution.

You dont know me at all so all this arm chair activist " youre not decent or progressive" nonsense adhominem. Your law school should have taught you better. The descent into ad hominem is hilarious. Why does every argument with you folks end the same way. Just call me a transphobe and be done with it.

I can go to the gym all day and every day and most men will still have a massive advantage over me. Men have bigger bodies , bigger heart sizes bigger lungs bigger limbs more muscle mass.

Do you really think if going to the gym and working out would have solved rape and assault women would not have done it already? Would you rather be raped or be lazy ?

There simply are biological sex based differences in strength and speed and a range of other things. That makes women vulnerable. Try as we might we cannot fight off our attackers all the time. Ignoring this truth because it makes you uncomfortable is putting women at danger.

The material reality of our sexed bodies also refers simply to the fact that we have sexed bodies. We have breasts and we have buttocks and we have vaginas and men can and do grab at what they want to show dominance. The material reality of our sexed bodies also means that we may get pregnant because of sexual assault. We may get STDs. Do you need me to walk you through anatomy some more ?

There are many women with better physical stamina and fighting ability than many men. They are still entitled to the protection because contrary to your belief, it's not about physical weakness. Trans people have similar body parts too and they too get abused and assaulted in the same fashion. If you don't get that, then that's your problem, not anyone else's.

trans people who are male have male muscle mass, male height, male lung capacity male heart size. they do not become females because of their dysphoria. They do not have anything in common with female biology. Inverting your male organ, carving a whole in your body and creating a wound that will close unless it is dilated every day by dildos is not the same thing as a vagina that we are born with. If you think that castrated mutilated males are the same as females- thats on you. Get over your misogyny already.

Please look up boys v women online- in almost every sport young teenage boys are faster stronger and better than adult women who have trained for longer. Explain that to me. This is real life- there is no Wonderwoman, there are no amazonian goddesses who could beat men up. Some men are sick and disabled and generally weak- you need to compare them to sick and disabled and generally weak women for a fair comparison. Its not fair to compare the strongest of one sex against the weakest of the other. And for law making we should go by general trends. women are biologically less strong, less muscle mass, less lung space and heart space and more fat and vulnerable to assault and humiliation. more at risk.

There are some children who can beat me up. It doesnt mean there shouldnt be a law protecting children from abuse.

I want gendered laws because the consequences of violence are worse for women, because most men are stronger and bigger than most women. and because all males- trans identified , gay, or straight are capable of harassing women. They are capable of humiliating women for their bodies. If we do not have gendered laws- that reality is not represented. I dont want women who object to pronoun games or who refuse to share restrooms with males to get persecuted because gender neutral laws make you feel like youre righteous.