By this logic AZB, SCAM etc. must be the best lawfirms in the world since the competition to get into them is much higher than for MC firms. And they get to recruit brilliant T1 grads while Magic circle has to settle for T2 russels.. lol
" LSE, KCL, UCL, Warwick, Manchester etc." and "SOAS, Sussex, Essex " and lower tiered universities in the UK. Look at the world rankings and you will see that they are faaar ahead of NLSIU (which is pretty much the only law school from India that makes some global presence) (not counting Jindal in here for a variety of other reasons). Its important to understand the quality of training (not students, but training) at these institutions are far ahead of the training that you get at NLS. There is much more of reflection, critical thinking and wider world view that comes as a result of studying in these places. This is in addition to the opportunities that you get to intern with these firms (and a host of other international or multinational institutions) when you are physically located in England. The same goes for the top tiered universities in Australia, Singapore, Canada, Honk Kong and New Zealand - they are truly some of the finest learning institutions in the world.
It might be true that statistically its harder to get into NLSIU - thats because we live in a country of one million. But if you think through it a bit carefully, to get into Oxbridge, you are competing with people from different parts of the world (and most often you are competing with some of the best students from different parts of the world).
Yes, we feel that the Indian law schools are something special and we like to call ourselves things like Harvard of the East. As much as NLSIU is a remarkable place (for achieving so much in a short time with so little resources), the simple fact is that we have a much longer way to go to come anywhere close to Harvard or any of the top tired western universities in terms of how we view education and the process involved in it. Let me repeat this, its not that our students are not talented - its simply that our education system comes nowhere up close yet.
People need to realise that NLUs are not that big of a deal as high-school kids and current NLU students in India would like to imagine. Granted that CLAT does act like a decent entry barrier and the average NLU students (at least for the top 5-6 universities) are reasonably smart. However that does not - in any way - mean that you're better than the kids graduating from Oxbridge or Russell Group universities.
OTOH the kids who form a major part of the TC intake are smart non-law graduates from these unis who then train with the firms for 2 years and do their LPC in parallel. From first hand experience, most of the trainees are sharp, confident and possess a high degree of social skills (which are usually absent in the Indian cohort). There's no reason whatsoever to believe that an average NLU grad is better than an average student at a UK uni who is trying to apply for a TC seat.
Someone mentioned this already but it also costs a lot more to hire someone from India as compared to the UK. The visa fee itself is ~£1,500 plus a healthcare surcharge of £650 per year. This does not include the relocation costs which are also significant.
Firms also realise that a smaller %age of the Indian cohort would settle in London as they've observed from experience that a non-trivial portion decides to move back to India (for various reasons) after a few years of 'big law' experience, hence there's lesser incentive to increase the intake. They already hire the best 3-5 students from top law schools which is enough to tick the firm's DEI checkbox.
An average NLSIU-NALSAR grad will kick the ass of an average Oxbridge or Russell Group grad. The same way an average IIT grad will outperform an average MIT or Ivy League grad. Look at Sundar Pichai. But although we Indians are brainier than whites we are shackled by our citizenship and cannot be recruited because of work visa restrictions.
Enough with the victim complex. Indians love going abroad for status and economic reasons but when things don't work out, they shout racism. These are UK firms who will prioritize hiring their own people first. And regardless of how well you dress and how eloquent your English is, Indians are not white, they are not European, either. You don't see white folks begging to come work in Indian law firms. And no, there is no competition on how hard it is to get in to NLSIU v/s Oxbridge. In India, the competition arises mainly due to the high number of people, not their quality. In the UK, it's the other way around. And having interacted with grads that went to the UK for their BA in law/jurisprudence, the exposure they get is much superior to even the top-tier NLUs. Not to mention, the work ethic in the West is also far more efficient and productive than at any Indian university. This is a trollish pointless thread by some NLS first-year, it looks like.
Some people have shared links to the Chambers and Partners study on which universities UK firms recruit from. I think the most important takeaway is this graph:
It shows that Russell Group universities minus Oxbridge make up about 45% of all Magic Circle firm hires and about 65% of all non-Magic Circle London firm hires. These refer to tier 2 universities like LSE, KCL, UCL, Warwick, Manchester etc. After that, Oxbridge makes up about 27% of all Magic Circle firm hires and around 18% of all non-Magic Circle London firm hires. Thus, even though it's placed second Oxbridge does better on a per-capita basis (maybe 3 times as much). After that, in third place (for both Magic Circle and non-Magic Circle London firms) you have a chunk of non-Russell Group universities. These refer to tier 3 universities like SOAS, Sussex, Essex etc. Finally, in fourth place, BELOW the tier 3 British Universities, you have Overseas universities. This category presumably lumps together universities from Australia, Singapore, Canada, Hong Kong, New Zealand and India. My guess is that India is probably #1 here, because Australians probably prefer to work in Sydney than London, Singaporeans in Singapore than London etc. But even then, I'm baffled by this statistic. It's 10 times harder to get into NLSIU than Oxbridge, so why are NLUs so low down in the pecking order? Is it racial discrimination? Is it because of work visa issues? Surely the quality of an average NLU grad is far superior?
Most of them are just rich and go, are not able to handle it come back do bridge course and get a contact based job.
" LSE, KCL, UCL, Warwick, Manchester etc." and "SOAS, Sussex, Essex " and lower tiered universities in the UK. Look at the world rankings and you will see that they are faaar ahead of NLSIU (which is pretty much the only law school from India that makes some global presence) (not counting Jindal in here for a variety of other reasons). Its important to understand the quality of training (not students, but training) at these institutions are far ahead of the training that you get at NLS. There is much more of reflection, critical thinking and wider world view that comes as a result of studying in these places. This is in addition to the opportunities that you get to intern with these firms (and a host of other international or multinational institutions) when you are physically located in England. The same goes for the top tiered universities in Australia, Singapore, Canada, Honk Kong and New Zealand - they are truly some of the finest learning institutions in the world.
It might be true that statistically its harder to get into NLSIU - thats because we live in a country of one million. But if you think through it a bit carefully, to get into Oxbridge, you are competing with people from different parts of the world (and most often you are competing with some of the best students from different parts of the world).
Yes, we feel that the Indian law schools are something special and we like to call ourselves things like Harvard of the East. As much as NLSIU is a remarkable place (for achieving so much in a short time with so little resources), the simple fact is that we have a much longer way to go to come anywhere close to Harvard or any of the top tired western universities in terms of how we view education and the process involved in it. Let me repeat this, its not that our students are not talented - its simply that our education system comes nowhere up close yet.
OTOH the kids who form a major part of the TC intake are smart non-law graduates from these unis who then train with the firms for 2 years and do their LPC in parallel. From first hand experience, most of the trainees are sharp, confident and possess a high degree of social skills (which are usually absent in the Indian cohort). There's no reason whatsoever to believe that an average NLU grad is better than an average student at a UK uni who is trying to apply for a TC seat.
Someone mentioned this already but it also costs a lot more to hire someone from India as compared to the UK. The visa fee itself is ~£1,500 plus a healthcare surcharge of £650 per year. This does not include the relocation costs which are also significant.
Firms also realise that a smaller %age of the Indian cohort would settle in London as they've observed from experience that a non-trivial portion decides to move back to India (for various reasons) after a few years of 'big law' experience, hence there's lesser incentive to increase the intake. They already hire the best 3-5 students from top law schools which is enough to tick the firm's DEI checkbox.
the other feeling is of unknown quantity
https://ststudentsmediaprod.blob.core.windows.net/cache/d/6/3/7/f/0/d637f09883c5d10c30b525af2d9f42985ff1fd4b.png
It shows that Russell Group universities minus Oxbridge make up about 45% of all Magic Circle firm hires and about 65% of all non-Magic Circle London firm hires. These refer to tier 2 universities like LSE, KCL, UCL, Warwick, Manchester etc. After that, Oxbridge makes up about 27% of all Magic Circle firm hires and around 18% of all non-Magic Circle London firm hires. Thus, even though it's placed second Oxbridge does better on a per-capita basis (maybe 3 times as much). After that, in third place (for both Magic Circle and non-Magic Circle London firms) you have a chunk of non-Russell Group universities. These refer to tier 3 universities like SOAS, Sussex, Essex etc. Finally, in fourth place, BELOW the tier 3 British Universities, you have Overseas universities. This category presumably lumps together universities from Australia, Singapore, Canada, Hong Kong, New Zealand and India. My guess is that India is probably #1 here, because Australians probably prefer to work in Sydney than London, Singaporeans in Singapore than London etc. But even then, I'm baffled by this statistic. It's 10 times harder to get into NLSIU than Oxbridge, so why are NLUs so low down in the pecking order? Is it racial discrimination? Is it because of work visa issues? Surely the quality of an average NLU grad is far superior?
What's going on????