Aw come off it - you were not ever gonna address the content of my argument. It was always gonna end with you calling me hateful and bigoted because I don’t agree with your philosophical beliefs about gender. Please point me to the exact sentence where you’re thinking Im arguing an ad hominem . I literally don’t know you - did not think you were op and was addressing policy and argument the entire comment. I don’t know what your biological sex is or who you’re claiming to be - I made generic statements that addressed both males and females who identify as trans.

Sorry your dysphoria didn’t resolve as quickly as it does for some people. It is a terrible thing to go through . I’ve had dysphoria as an adult so I literally understand. If you have dysphoria about your sexed body - you should continue going to therapy and working out that stuff. Cognitive behavioural therapy- don’t find a therapist who is lazy and will just affirm. Maybe you’ll need some medication as well - if you look at detrans people - most of them do continue to have dysphoria- they just don’t after transitioning find that it works to relieve them of that burden. That is a real thing. Talk to other desistors and detrans folks before you go around making yourself a life long medical patient.

If you’re dysphoric about gender roles or some shit like that - it’s all nonsense . All of these social gender things are nonsense . Be as extremely gender non conforming as you like - that’s every individuals right in the constitution. That doesn’t require being a medical patient for ever or for other people to treat you special.

I’ve interacted with multiple trans people in my life. I’ve attended transform , I’ve worked as a student to have gender neutral bathrooms in my law school - because I was young and stupid and did not realise I was working to undermine womens rights and safety. I have read your Judith butler. I’m just better at seeing through the BS now.

If you don’t believe you’re literally changing sex - why the need to use the opposite sex bathroom ? Why the need to be defined by the world - by legal papers as the opposite sex ? If you don’t believe that why do you want others to pretend to believe that ?

Gender identity is nonsense and not falsifiable . Please explain to me how we can test for gender identity- should we take it on faith that this is a real thing ? Are you sure souls exist ? What proof have we ?

Explain to me why you think the trans community has been historically marginalised ?

Hijra and trans are different things you know - hijras are castrated men or intersex men who will tell you they aren’t women - they’re a third gender. That’s a different thing than someone saying they have transitioned into a different gender. Here’s a Harvard case study that explains it :https://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/religion-context/case-studies/gender/third-gender-and-hijras

It seems to me that Hijra is just as much about being in a religious cult than not . A long standing religious cult, but a cult nonetheless.

So that cannot be who we’re talking about when we say they’re historically marginalised - they self segregate and perform these rituals and live in their colonies because that’s part of the religious thinking there.

Cross dressers - also don’t claim that they are literally the other sex. They claim that they’re men who like to dress like and make fun of women. Most of them live their lives as gay men. It’s a sexual interest for them - or maybe mocking women can be an identity- but that’s not really transgender.

Intersex people - or people with disorders or sexual development - aren’t trans . They too are born

Male or female - but due to a quirk of nature - their sexual development is inhibited in one of like 3 ways. Most intersex people don’t want to be teamed with transgender because a) most of them don’t know they’re different sexually than other people until they go to a doctor and figure out they have a medical condition. And b) they want to blend in to society - not stand apart from it and they don’t make any claims that they are transitioning to one gender or the other. They cannot literally change sex either. This would be like claiming kids born with missing fingers or limbs are a different thing than human or that the number or limbs human beings have is on a spectrum . Nah. It’s a disorder.

So okay not them - who else are we calling transgender ? The people with special souls that are telling them through stereotypes that they are male or female in the wrong body ? That is not a historical claim. There is no proof that this sort of stuff was done historically and these people were discriminated against.

All this really started with Judith butler and “ you’re married if a priest says you are man and wife so how is it different to say you’re a certain gender because you say you are “. Well Judith, that’s not quite right because I’m not nine feet tall because I say I am , even if I put stilts on. There is a different between how the social institution of marriage operates and how biological facts operate. There are specific things you have to do to become married - in every culture you have a ceremony and you have social recognition - this is because without that ceremony and social recognition it would be impossible who was married and who was not. Gender is not just about social recognition and ceremony. I do not become a woman because I wear or do not wear make up one day. And I won’t change sex if everyone in my life starts pretending im the opposite sex. I will still need appropriate healthcare for my sex which is a biological fact. This stuff is all a new claim. MTF and FTM is a new claim - and there’s no proof of historical discrimination.

Seriously - name a historical trans figure for me. Find me a historical figure from - let’s just say before the 1800s who believed they had a man soul in a woman body or vice versa who was discriminated against on that basis. I mean really trans - not gender non conforming which is just a man or a woman who would dress the opposite way , or do things not expected of them.

And the last bit of this is the demiboy, non binary, special gender folks - that community did not exist before tumblr and the late 2000s - not historically marginalised.

That said - I think that hijras are better off integrated into society than

Not . And I don’t think discriminating against anyone for the nonsense they believe is a good thing. I think all trans people should get jobs. I don’t think discrimination against any individual person is wrong because of what they choose to do with their body. I wouldn’t discriminate against a person because they have tattoos would I ?

But if they’re not able to hold down a job because they’re on pills that make them aggressive and unproductive. And they spend all their time at the office correcting pronouns and talking about how special their gendered soul is and bothering women in the bathroom - well that kind of behaviour - is not desirable in any new hire. We don’t mandate that employers hire a quota of people with schizophrenia or body dysmorphia or anorexia. Why is transgender different ? And why are there special set or expectations for these people when it comes to their work and their behaviour ?

This rhetoric about what rights people have - as if you can acquire new rights by proclamation without proving why you need those rights. And as if rights are this overarching concepts that cover all human behaviour and cannot be limited - is legally nonsense. Every other marginalised group has had to prove that they are marginalised - women, Dalits , obcs, even gay and lesbian and bisexual people. I can name you examples of those people throughout history who did experience discrimination. And there are legally defined limits to what rights these people have.

Dost, feel free to join JSA. Its a great place to work for trans people. Won't say others are good/bad. But can pretty much assure you that at JSA you wont face trouble or any kind of discrimination because of your gender, whatever that may be.

Yes we have our fair share of problems. This aint one of them.

I want to say more, quote a few examples, to quell your f

Partner at TT&A here. We have a blanket anti-discrimination policy on the grounds of sexual orientation and gender identity. We are one of the first Indian law firms to enact such measures, following our best friends agreement with Linklaters. You're more than welcome to intern here, provided that your CV is good enough :)

I was willing to address your argument but then you went full-scale ad hominen in your last paragraph. Anyway, for me, gender dysphoria didn't magically resolve itself just like that post puberty. I did not even mention M2F or F2M, yet you assumed it to be one way. Did you ever interact with a trans person in real life? Maybe you should, you'll understand better. Most of us aren't willing to go through all of this for no good reason. I acknowledge that transitioning won't change my "biological sex" but it would definitely help to deal with everlasting dysphoria. Besides, discrimination on the basis of gender identity is banned by the law.

Trans rights activists are absolutely denying that sex is biological. Literally educate yourself. No one is denying gender dysphoria is an issue- but did you know most people who experience gender dysphoria are adolescents who go through puberty and that it resolves itself as they grow up? The best treatment for gender dysphoria is not transitioning. Did you know that rates of suicide increase a number of years after transition compared to if the person hadnt transitioned at all? Do you think the best treatment for phantom leg is to cut off a persons leg? Or that the best treatment to suicidal ideation is euthanasia? plenty of people work through dysphoria through talk therapy and medication. The fact that transitioning is seen as the best treatment for dysphoria shows how little the medical community cares about treating gender dysphoria or finding an actual cure for it. You cant label everything hatred and bigotry. Saying sex is real and sex matters is not bigotry.

We all KNOW sex=/= gender. Its trans rights activists who confuse the two. Theyre the ones who think if a biological female does not like feminine things like wearing pink and doing housework and having periods then she must be a man on the inside. Or that if a biological male likes other men or likes feminine things like wearing a dress or having his hair long then he must be a man on the inside.
You're also using the word gender to confuse people. It has had several meanings over the years. Gender used to be just a polite word for sex is civilized society. Then it came to denote a gendered role that is culturally based- so like women being caregivers and men being bread winners. gendered roles are nonsense. Then gender came to mean gendered behavior- liking pink, liking make up, liking sports- thats also nonsense. People of all sexes can give care and be breadwinners and like pink and make up and sports. Then gender came to mean gendered expression- which is how you choose to present yourself to the world- which no one really has a problem with- do whatever you want mate. Masculine women and feminine men have existed for centuries.

Now yall are arguing that gender means gender identity- an innate sense of self- a deeply held conviction. like a religious belief (Except we dont allow religious people to teach that evolution didnt happen in science class but we have to teach the damn genderbread man every time we talk about feminism for some reason). Gender Identity is the claim that we all have gendered souls that express themselves through stereotypes and that such a claim is non-falsifiable. I have no gendered soul. Ask just about any one not in the trans community- they dont have a gendered soul. They just ARE men or women.

So we have gone from woman is an adult human female to woman is anyone who identifies as a woman. Explain to me how you will protect womens sex based rights- reservations, sex segregated spaces like bathrooms, spas, gyms, changing rooms, and those rights women have fought hard for and won because of the sexism that they faced as a sex class- women in sports, womens labour rights, maternity leaves, protection from violence in the face of sex based crimes like sexual harassment, stalking, dowry deaths, femicide, and rape, womens rights to representation in governance, and womens rights as a sex class to have the government invest in them if you anyone can identify as a woman and theyre not to be questioned?

Its all misogynistic at the heart of it. A woman is not a costume to be worn my dude. shes a fully formed person who has just as much of a rich inner life as you do.

Gender in the context of gendered roles , stereotypes and behaviour can be social. Sex is a biological category though. What is sex if it’s not the same thing you see in cows and bulls, roosters and hens and dogs and bitches ? Mammals are sexually dimorphic. Rarely some species are not - clownfish, and when you go to single cell organisms that gets even worse - algae.

None of those animals have a gender role , stereotype or identity. Unless the claim is human beings are unlike other beasts found in nature - sorry to say that sex is absolutely biological.

All firm guidelines will have grooming requirements. They're not meant to be trans exclusionary, they're only meant to be etiquette standards based on traditional gender roles. As a fellow member of the community (cis) I know of several peers in the community doing well in firms, but that's because they're either closeted or do nothing to bring sexual identity into the workplace.

Being trans, your case is obviously different since it's a gender identity matter. You'll have a very tough time getting in anywhere because client facing roles demand a heterogeneous, conforming attorney base and no EP will risk client "discomfort". I am putting these in plain words so you can effectively assess your plans.

You may perhaps speak to a headhunter or two to see if they can shop around your profile to firms to see if someone proactively takes you up.

I mean. Is grooming standards for client-facing roles really oppressive? I've known plenty of gay men and lesbian women in law firms- they dont bring their sex life into the workplace and no one bothers them.
Its often only an issue if you want people to participate in your stuff in some way.

I am a trans person from a tier-1 NLU (one among NLS, NALSAR and NUJS). Which law firms in India are most accepting of the queer community? By accepting, I don't mean just changing their logos to rainbow colors during Pride Month, but having a relatively non-judgmental atmosphere for queer / gender-nonconforming people. In JSA's internship guidelines, there is a rule against men having long hair (not sure if it as actually enforced), do other firms have such rules as well? Serious answers only, as LI is already rife with trolls.