https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/cwc-calls-for-reservation-upper-limit-to-be-raised-101694888378299.html

So, if implemented in NLUs, merits seats will shrink further. It's getting harder and harder for general category people....

Well its not just congress. Modi govt is in it too. It is playing its caste politics indirectly in courts too.In guise of appointing member from these group it wants its own member in SC and HC. Hence people like dilip mandal and other caste activist are hell bent on collegium. Once it happens its over trust me our subaltern are not like american one.They are blood hungry leeches.

Caste census, private reservation and 70-80 percent resrvation are going to happen in 10-20 years whether you like it or not. You cant stop 60-70 percent country from demanding something,you can only postpone. We are in minority. Its not like this demand is new caste census has happened but data was found faulty as in india caste system is complex. There is no central authority deciding caste. Its brutal majotarianism.

So theres no hope but caste census so we exactly know how many we are but brahmin and other upper caste( some brahmin and upper caste come in OBC) from OBC must be counted in general category. That way we can be 35 percent something. So 35 percent will be decent share to compete. Right now also general category(non ews) competiting for 40 percent.

But i dont know i would like to see my country such a massive quota turn that even seats in bus will be divided on basis of population, tv anchors, journalist for obc, journalist for UC. UC company, some OBC construction company. Theres no way down, identity politics has to be countered by brutal identity politics.

All of you support collegium, but the fact remains collegium is a brahmin bastion, not even all UCs get advantage it's mostly brahmin- Baniya, if any women comes up in the name of diversity she is also from either of the two communities. Judiciary is suffering from uncle-nephew syndrome.

Collegium had years to try to make Judiciary more inclusive but they refused to do so.

Also don't get into all 'HC and SC judges are meritorious and deserve to be there' debate. They are making statements like Peacocks procreate by consuming tears and Cow milk contains gold. It's not just about representation from lower castes, even outsiders of UC don't get a fair chance.

Also collegium will recommend someone's elevation but if govt. Doesn't approve they are fine unless the person is one of their own (nepotism) They publicly released govt's objections for the first time when govt refused the appointment of former CJI's son who happened to be gay, I'm sure he is brilliant but it's funny how in a huge country like India the only gay person they found worthy happened to be son of Ex-CJI.

Also Judges like DYC are all talk, he talked and talks about diversity and inclusion so much but since his elevation not a single judge has been appointed to SC and 3 judges that have been elevated are product of nepotism.

If they are not willing to reform they should be dismantled.

SC is the first to see how govt. Should not decide on appointments and jumps at every chance to put CJI in every appointment committee (which is probably good for democracy) but they refuse to clean their own house. How is it different from monarchy where rulers decide who will rule after they are gone?

In my State - the Civil and Tax Bar is dominated by the Baniyas. The Criminal Bar is dominated by the Brahmins and the Bench is largely dominated by the Kaiyasths, followed by the Baniyas (ratio of 70-30). 'The others' (this group includes Brahmin/Thakur to the extent of 10-15% and OBC, ST and SCs to the extent of 85-90%) just exist. When it comes to elevation to the Bench. The Baniyas and Kaiyasths are elevated at the age ranging from 43-47 (43-45 is reserved for those who have a family already on the Bench). 'The others' get at the age after 52+, offcourse to show, every now and then, that diversity and equal opportunity is maintained. But the real intent is that 'the others', though may become a Judge, but never ever get even to the top ten, forget about becoming a member of the collegium. So that it is ensured that the above process is repeated for all times to come. 'The Others' who have made it to the top, is primarily because the ruling parties intervened and some how managed to get one name inserted at an early age. So, thanks to ruling party that was there at the time, the member of the OBC,ST and SC is elevated to the bench at an early age. The Brahmin/Thakur manage sometimes and somehow.

I know of an incident, when the collegium recommendation went to the then President. He/She refused to sign untill a member of 'the Others' was included. And, that's when it was done.

In India, for centuries and by whatever way or reasons, the castes or groups now identified as OBCs, SCs and STs were out casted from education etc. by the so called Upper Castes. In a way, the Upper Castes enjoyed 100% reservation in their favour to the complete exclusion of the others. To eliminate this barbaric discrimination, our Constitution provided for equal opportunity to all. It also provided for affirmative action, if needed. However, owing to the centuries of discrimination, these outcastes were not able to compete with those who enjoyed 100% reservation in their favour - the Upper Castes. Therefore, For these reasons and few more, reservation was implemented to the extent of maximum of 50% (this is by the SC judgment). Later by another judgment of the SC, it was fixed that an OBC claiming reservation will get absorbed only on a reserved seat for the OBC and an OBC cannot switch to the general seat even if this candidate scores the top rank. The effect of this judgment is that as on today OBCs are now limited to 27% seats only, if one is claiming reservation under this category. The general category seats are reserved to 50% i.e., what was earlier 100% has now been reduced to 50% with the only exception that the SCs or STs, if they perform well can take a general category seat - which is unfortunately rare for reasons of graver discrimination they have faced for years and years and still do.

I hear every now and then, that for how long reservation will continue and this is this and that - please be mindful of the fact that reservation in favour of the OBCs, SCs and STs has been there for only 75 - 25 years, if at all, and you feel so outraged, what about centuries of discrimination that was enforced by the Upper Castes? What is happening is redemption for centuries of discrimination - even if it continues for 75 more years, will still not match what the Upper Caste did for centuries and brought about this huge chasm in the society.

There is one more factor to notice - the Upper Caste policy makers realised that they can't eliminate reservation and continue with their hegemony, so they came out with an innovative idea i.e., increase the numbers castes under the OBCs, SCs and STs (unfortunately, everyone feels a great achievement to be included)- the effect is that it has become so competitive to qualify in these categories that it is as good as no reservation for many on the lower strata of such categories. So the well-offs of these respective categories are able to exploit this system more than those at the lower strata of such categories and this will be the undoing of the reservation.

The other effect is this policy of hundred cuts is that castes under General are reducing while the castes under the OBC, ST and SC is ballooning, which will in times to come will make it relatively easier to get selected under the General Category. This will give rise to voice for elimination of reservation by the OBC, ST and SCs themselves. And, this is what GCs want.

So, that means you accept that the present form of reservation is just a reverse discrimination which is put into make good for the century long discrimination and is not actually (as it is projected) a way to uplift the marginalised section of society?

Context: Please read again the first two paragraph of your response for context.

One society is marginalised not for the reasons attributed to them, but for the reasons, outside their control and for the exclusive utility of the others - the UCs and imposed by such others for centuries. The fact that we wanted an equal society that the need arose to reduce the 100% reservation in favour of the UCs to 50% and provide some percentage of reservation for those who had none or no opportunity at all. This can only be done by taking something who have everything and giving to those who have none - a peril of having limited resources.

In present time, if you prefer one over other purely based on the factors outside the control of the one getting the favour - it is discrimination. There is not two thoughts about it. However, this discrimination is based on good reasons and not because somebody thought that they are superiors than others and thus, these others should not be provided with anything except bare sustenance.

Also, I reiterate that century long discrimination led to a society getting marginalised. And, it has always been projected as the reason for providing reservation.

Only SC/ST resevation is justified not OBC. Infact, OBC castes are perpetrators in most of SC/ST cases. OBC like Jats, Vanniyar, Lingayat, Gurjar are landlord castes having immense dominance in states where they are.

Infact, OBC kaa kabhi oppressed kabhi oppressor wala scene hai lol. Example lelo Yadavas ka, for reservation they are pichda but they proudly call themselves Yaduvanshi Chattriya which is very sweet, dont you think !? How can wanna be chattriya be oppressed lol.

I totally agree on your SC/ST reservation point l, SC/ST reservation has no time limit and is for perpetuity. It must remain so for perpetuity as long as india as nation is there.

Infact, i believe SC/ST reservation must extend to private too, we should have representation at law firms, top companies from this group.

However i am not sure about OBC, they are appropriating they were not discriminated. Many of shudras were ruler in past. They have social backwardness for that other measures are there.

And in OBC many castes are far far advanced in some parameters.

Reservation will cease to be an issue if OBC reservation is removed, but that is unlikely.

That being said, chanting shloka in sankrit is not real education, real education is only superior anglo education that was started in british era.not learning sanskrit cant be compared with english education.

If one's caste confined to a profession and thus deserve upward mobility then on the same line brahmin also deserve reservation in Business and land too as it was the case pandit(many pandits who are in small temple of mohalla's, which consists majority of temple are dirt poor and it still is the case today, pandits in small temples are poor as fuck) they need upward mobility too. But i dont think OBC and EWS should be there only SC/St.

About that line of upper caste policy maker consciously sabotaging quota, i highly doubt that. I think you look every thing from a casteist perspective so you see things which might not even be there and not even exist.

The SC has held that the state will need to have credible data to include a caste under the reserved category. Taking the same logic forward, If you have credible data to support removal of yadavs or anyone and inclusion of brahmins or anyone - please go ahead and remove or add. Nothing wrong in it.

You are mixing the Varna system with the Caste System. The early Vedic period identified varna with ones occupation - so a person may have been born is a particular varna but had the scope to change atleast his/hers by switching the profession. As there was cross ever happening every now and then, there was minimum discrimination, if at all. This Varna system was manipulated to become 'Caste system' in the later Vedic period, in which one was born in a caste and died therein. This laid the foundation of the caste based discrimination which is still in practise. 'Tribe' is not caste, its just a small society living together with common language/culture and in some cases common ancestors.