Over time, because of intermixing, it became possible for higher castes to be dark skinned, and lower castes to be fair skinned. However, even today, higher castes or overwhelmingly fairer than lower castes. This leads to a lot of prejudice in India for both men and women in society, as well as marriage and jobs. Fair skin is considered a sign of prestige.
Thus, just as the US has a policy of affirmative action for blacks, isn't it time India had a reservation system based on skin colour? In fact, the number of Dalit beneficiaries could actually improve and they could take seats that otherwise go to fairer skinned middle castes like Jats.
What about OCI? I wasn’t born in India, my parents weren’t born in India. So if I wanted to live in India, to experience the place, what documentation would I need? No one in my family has a familial connection to India. We have family and friends in Kenya and Tanzania. When I think about it, my Indian Mauritius friends are in the same about. We know the languages, we’re culturally Indian, yet we don’t share a connection with Indians from India. More of you need to come over here! Second and Third Generation Indian immigrants are running the show in the U.K. and several places in Europe. We’re only a small part of the population, but are economic contributions and high tax paying circumstances are huge. I’m so proud. Imagine where we will be in just a few more generations? Rishi Sunak already made it as Prime Minister. Maybe we’ll see more European Indians becoming more politically active. Get your education in India sorted, then come to study over here. The newer Indian immigrants from India study, work, buy houses. In under 10 years… fresh Indian immigrants are well settled in the U.K. Go Bharat! None of that caste bs matters. You will see Indians with middle caste surnames , or even lower caste surnames, running their own businesses and companies, living in multimillion pound houses. This caste nonsense is holding Indians in India back from developing and moving forward as a society. You don’t like the U.K/Europe/America? Move to the Arab Gulf States which have a big corporate Indian population. More Mandirs are being built because even the Arabs know professional Indians contribute a lot to their economies.
The sheer elitism, entitlement and rank ignorance about Indian society that drip from this post is enough to induce barf. This is why these non reliable Indians have never done anything to better their own country.
Yes, please!!! And until and unless clat is held in regional languages, only the privileged sc and st people who are rich and can afford good English education are coming to the top nlus while the sc and st people who actually need reservation are left behind by the rich ones
It makes no sense to hold CLAT in any other language. The whole point of CLAT is to benchmark your English. Instead of cribbing online or developing some inferiority complex, go home, read more and get better. Improve your English.
Alright i understand that holding clat in regional languages is probably a bad idea, but then what is the sense behind sc and st reservation? All the reserved seats are snatched up by privileged Sc and St people who can afford good English education and the people who actually need reservation don't even get the chance to come to top nlus
What do you mean by "afford"? If you have read the Constitution, you'd realise that the reservation is made for inclusion and representation of the SC and ST community in the general diaspora and NOT on financial status. There have been numerous instances of them not getting into good positions at work and into colleges due to caste politics which necessitate such reservations. So please educate yourself and then comment.
Alright agreed, but my main point wasnt that, my main point was that all reserved seats are taken up by privileged sc and st people who don't need reservation and the people who actually can't afford good English education because of societal/financial constraints, can't get the reserved seats
What? Aren’t Schedule Caste and Schedule Tribes (SC and ST) Dalits and indigenous Indian tribal people? Where did their riches come from?? They are like dark skin Shudras. Nobody is helping them gain an education - in English or otherwise. What are you smoking? SC/ST and Shudras are relugated to being dark skin servants/labourers to the lighter skin upper castes & middle castes.
Punjabi Jats in Punjab are Upper Caste. Most Jats are Punjabi Sikhs. I am not sure about Hindu Jats but Jats are a powerful community in India. Punjabis in the UK/US (Sikh and Hindu) brag about being Jats all the time.
Jats are not middle caste. They are higher caste. Jat is an ethnicity. Jats are very tall and fair skinned. Even the women are incredibly tall. Some Jats look Middle Eastern or Mediterranean. Jats don’t really look like other brown Indians.
Bit of an over-generalisation. Jats definitely look Indian, if anything they look like most Punjabis. Some might be fair but you'd have to be blind to confuse them with Mediterranean populations. And Middle Eastern folks are also largely brown along different shades. One can easily tell the difference between most fair north Indians versus folks from Central Asia/Iran/Afghanistan, etc.
And within the Brahmanical order of things (if you buy that, I know Jats don't), Jats are not considered an upper caste in that the Brahmins don't consider them to be either Kshatriyas or Vaishyas. The fact that they classify themselves as a higher caste is hypocritical with their supposed rejection of the caste system which is entirely a Brahmanical construct. Either accept the Brahmin caste system for what it is or reject it in full measure (which is the right answer). Half-way self-identification doesn't work.
Discrimination in India happens on the basis of class, not caste. A Dalit IAS officer or rich Gujjar businessman receives more respect than a sweeper or rickshaw puller or farmer from the upper castes. Thus, we need reservation on basis of income only.
As for being upper caste, no they are not because they get reservation as OBCs. My cousin is a Jat and she got an OBC certificate (she had a very privileged upbringing, but that's another story).
That's the whole point right there, you ▮▮▮ ▮▮▮. The privalaged upbringing and the consequent absuridity of a quota is the topic at hand. It's painful, it's almost like there's a part of you that can think but it's atrophied to the point of no return.
Come to south India, caste is an excellent predictor of fairness. Which is good for us, as it helps avoid confusion even when caste surnames are absent here. That way we ▮▮▮
The comment on South Indian Brahmins is 100% correct. Even most South Indian Brahmins are darker skinned. Some might be fairer, but the majority aren’t. Just look at the matrimony ads: South Indian Brahmin men and women are darker than North Indian Brahmins/Kshatriyas. South Indian Brahmins tend to fetishise lighter skinned North Indians. It’s really ugly.
Punjabis (Sikhs and Hindu Punjabis) are fairer than the average Indian. Maybe not all Punjabis…. but I would say many don’t look like the stereotypical version of brown Indians. The actor Karan Vohra would not look out of place in the Middle East. His wife is the same. Then you have women like Kanika Kapoor who are fully Indian yet they could be mistaken for another ethnicity. There are too many famous and non famous Punjabi people to list. Punjabis and Haryvani are basically taller/fairer than people from other states (barring places like Jammu & Kashmir and Himachal.
All this talk about caste is very weird for children and grandchildren of South Asian immigrants. None of that matters in the U.K./Europe. Families do make sure that everyone marries into the same ethnicity (Gujjus marrying Gujjus, Kashmiris marrying Kashmiris, and so on and so forth), but caste isn’t so ingrained over here. My family are originally from Tanzania and Kenya, it’s the same over there. I’m second generation Gujarati and Punjabi, but my mum hasn’t even been to India. That’s how far removed Tanzanian Indians/Kenyan Indians are from the motherland. We can’t relate to people who are directly from India. East African Indian culture is so different. South African Indians would feel weird in India too. I thank my great-great-great grandfather for leaving India decades before Partition. Indian people from India care too much about caste and skin colour. I’m on the lighter skin tone end for a British Indian. I was called all sorts when I was growing up - Arab/Pakistani/Afghan - but I embraced it and enjoyed telling people my ancestors are Northern and Northwest Indians! My son is as light as me, but the generations have changed. Being lighter for your ethnicity isn’t unique anymore, because the U.K. has a very large light skin ethnic population. My son and my next child probably won’t face the same bizzare questions about their ancestry. Telling ignorant people that you are actually Indian (when they stupidly assume every other ethnicity under the sun) is actually satisfying. I mean.. most ignorant Americans don’t even know Indian people can be lighter skinned with lighter eyes. That Indian Simpson character is what they think every Indian looks like hahaha. More fool them.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/skin-colour-tied-to-caste-system-says-study/articleshow/55532665.cms
Over time, because of intermixing, it became possible for higher castes to be dark skinned, and lower castes to be fair skinned. However, even today, higher castes or overwhelmingly fairer than lower castes. This leads to a lot of prejudice in India for both men and women in society, as well as marriage and jobs. Fair skin is considered a sign of prestige.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2003/10/7/black-is-blemish-in-india
Thus, just as the US has a policy of affirmative action for blacks, isn't it time India had a reservation system based on skin colour? In fact, the number of Dalit beneficiaries could actually improve and they could take seats that otherwise go to fairer skinned middle castes like Jats.
Well said! We need to stop ALL reservation: SC, ST, OBC, NRI, EWS, Domicile... EVERYTHING!
Merit over votebank politics!
And within the Brahmanical order of things (if you buy that, I know Jats don't), Jats are not considered an upper caste in that the Brahmins don't consider them to be either Kshatriyas or Vaishyas. The fact that they classify themselves as a higher caste is hypocritical with their supposed rejection of the caste system which is entirely a Brahmanical construct. Either accept the Brahmin caste system for what it is or reject it in full measure (which is the right answer). Half-way self-identification doesn't work.
As for being upper caste, no they are not because they get reservation as OBCs. My cousin is a Jat and she got an OBC certificate (she had a very privileged upbringing, but that's another story).