A Training Contract (TC) is given after you get a Vacation Scheme (Vac Scheme). They only care for grades, you need to be in the top 5 ranks of a top 5 NLU, that's it, then clear a rigorous process.
Even if you achieve a TC, you will have to go through the SQE training process for about 20 months, and then write SQE 1, which is an examination based on British Law, written by English and foreign (all countries) students, so you may not stand a chance really. This year the pass percentage was 51%.
Then you have to wait for 5-6 months and then write the SQE 2, which is a bit easier as it is based on personality tests, but the results are out late.
Once this happens, over 2 years, you become a registered solicitor (SRA) and then begin your TC for 2 years with 4 sittings. After then you still have to go through a gruelling process and competition, to finally get selected as an Associate.
Mind you, you won't get paid for the 2 years while preparing and hopefully clearing the SQE. The 10k pounds grant (Only Magic circle law firms- only Links and HSF are hiring Indians recently) is simply not enough to sustain in London for that much time.
After you get the TC, it's still going to be hard to sustain in the 50-60k, do consider the 45% taxation in London, UK along with other charges like health cess. And then finally you may end up being an associate. Then to your disdain and shock, your pay will remain the same 100k-110k over the next 8-9 years (Tax alert), considering you don't get fired sooner as these firms have an up or out policy.
After that they make you a salaried partner/ counsel and your pay may become 200k, but it's rare that an Indian achieves this (2 in the last decade). Forget equity partnership.
Coming back to your question, no a gold medal, meaning a 1st in a subject, will be considered to be much much much more critical than a Jessup, which firms don't really care about actually.
Also you are talking about 'qualifying Jessup'. It may make a minute impression only if you 'Win' the world rounds of the Jessup.
low pay? haahhaaa. use reddit for the actual facts - equity partners are sitting at a north of 1.5 mn GBP, salaried get atleast 600k and the income isn't 110k for life - you really think angrez pagal hai ki utni hee salary pe kaam karte rahenge , abe ghantu
Also you are saying equity jaise jaate hi banadenge, understand you are an Indian among white Harvard and Oxbridge top grads whose alumni form the partnerships of these firms. In firms like Links and HSF you need to work consistently (bringing business and covering hours) for atleast 15 years to be "considered" for equity partnership
Considered doesn't mean promotion, it means all partners have to elect for your promotion. Do you really think you stand a chance among other white Harvard/ oxbridge/ UCL grads. Check the statistics sir before commenting.
there is a host of misinformation on this thread. getting a TC straight out of any law school in the world is the best outcome ... say whatever (in case ur aiming for a job which most people are)
Imagine you are a recruiting HR/ Partner. You see a CV with CGPA 8. Then you see another with CGPA 8 but one year drop.
I know it isn't sky and ground, but won't you ask them why they took 6 years for a 5 year LLB? Why did they fail? You won't ask the same to the first guy, would you?
Unless you have a really good reply or justification, won't it atleast cost some difference? Why do you think people work so hard to pass exams. Aisa Hota toh you would just fail in the first repeat and repeat the year with flying colours.
Wrong piece of information. It does not matter. I have been through the interview and they didn’t even ask me about my drop year(s). It’s all how you carry yourself in the interview
1. Doing a VS isn't the only way, you also have the Direct TC route. Look it up.
2. TOP 5 NLU IS CAP- Someone from SLS Pune got into Links last year - look it up - don't say exceptions are always there since there are no exceptions to prerequisites - ye top 5 NLU wali baat iss bande ne prerequisite jaisi sound karai hai
3 - For A&O, you only have to study for the SQE 1 remotely - prep lasts 5-6 months - you are paid a maintenance grant for that - SQE 2 you take when you commence your TC in London - PS - you don't prepare for x months and take the exams ek saath - prep time ke beech me hee exams hote hain -
TC to associate isn't that difficult - sure if you underperform you'll be fired but the firm isn't training you, paying for your SQE, paying you a maintenance grant just to say goodbye after 2 years - think of this from their side
Trainee pay isn't peanuts- people survive on a lot less in London - it's the top 1 percentile pay in the city dude.
110k stagnancy is a joke - use reddit - i can confirm that the numbers are north of 135k for an A2 at Freshfields and they increase steadily - partner makes 600k easy , equity partners are million +
The jessup point is correct - so nothing wrong here
Don't spread false hope. The Symbi kid who got the TC got it personally by applying separately and doing multiple individual follow-ups. The London firms do not come to Symbi Pune inviting applications. It is definitely an exception to the rule. They only go to the top 5 NLUs (NLS, NLUD, NUJS, Nalsar and NLUJ). I'm not sure they even go to GNLU (would appreciate if someone can clarify this, GNLU was not getting many foreign jobs back when I was a law student). There was a kid from RMLNLU who also got a TC, but this will not be through the official college recruitment committee since the London firms don't even consider these colleges.
I think that two things matter a lot: the university you go to, and the batch rank. There may be exceptions, but usually you find that VS/TC people are from top 5 NLUs + Jindal coming up recently. It is necessary to be in your batch top 5%, however if you ace your application and commercial awareness interview, there are chances you can get a TC. Moots are good, but really may not affect the decision of the interviewer to select you.
So for getting shortlisted to the next round, you need to have strong academics, along with co-curriculars (incl. publications, moots, ADR etc.). After the first stage, it is a different game, not restricted only to marks or batch rank. The second interview (usually with HR) is easy enough and most people qualify. The Assessment Centre is the thing to be prepared for. You need to inhale the website of the firm, recent deals, what they are looking for, where are they earning money from, which practise areas do they focus, who are their clients etc. Tie in all of this in the personal interview. I believe the main factor for selection is the performance in the technical interview - where a situation is given and you are asked for suggestions as a lawyer on that transaction.
You need to think on your feet, give answers that they are looking for, and it is very important to behave like a top lawyer there, have confidence on your own answers. The AC is the heart of this process.
So focus on academics (solution to everything) and also keep in mind that UK firms may not be looking for the toppers, but they always shortlist on marks and academics.
There is a lack of imagination if you think this is all law firms are looking for.
At the outset I had:
1. Good internships/Sterling recommendations
2. Polyglot
3. Good extra curriculars
4. Terrific interview
HR/Interviewers are looking for a good fit. If you think a gold medal or getting a participation certificate at Jessup is going to get ensure you a job, you are sorely mistaken.
This is the problem with law students - moot isn't the only extra curricular activity, boss. There's debates, negotiations, mediation, client counselling, theatre, music, dance, quizzing, gaming, literally thousands of things.
Noone cares about a participation certificate from a moot (at Indian or international law firms). If you win Jessup (or make finals/semis) then sure, that may help you.
Gold medals certainly help, but they're not a pre-requisite either.
Work on your academics, and demonstrate that you're an interesting person - law firms are looking for good fits
1. Forget foreign law firms, any good company with smart HR are looking out for people who have achieved excellence in any field. This is about how you project yourself. This is why CV writing is so important.
2. In no way am I trying to diminish the efforts taken to get a gold medal or to reach the international rounds of Jessup. It takes a lot of effort and hard work to get to these places. So I disagree with someone below saying "no one cares". I am sure some folks might. I am just questioning the notion that law firms are not willing to look beyond medals/jessup for their candidates. Perhaps in lower tier colleges they might only be looking at the top rankers, but at NLS, they assumed most candidates were worth considering during my time. Things might have changed since.
3. Having Jessup/Gold medals will secure an interview perhaps, but you still need to prove yourself during the group discussions/interviews. People who are prepared for these stages will fare better than those who walk in without any preparation. This was one of the places I differentiated myself from someone who might definitely had better grades than me.
4. I can't emphasize this enough. Interviews aren't only about proving your competence in the law, it is also about showing the interviewer you are a good person to work with. Personality matters. They are looking for well rounded people, not automatons.
Even if you achieve a TC, you will have to go through the SQE training process for about 20 months, and then write SQE 1, which is an examination based on British Law, written by English and foreign (all countries) students, so you may not stand a chance really. This year the pass percentage was 51%.
Then you have to wait for 5-6 months and then write the SQE 2, which is a bit easier as it is based on personality tests, but the results are out late.
Once this happens, over 2 years, you become a registered solicitor (SRA) and then begin your TC for 2 years with 4 sittings. After then you still have to go through a gruelling process and competition, to finally get selected as an Associate.
Mind you, you won't get paid for the 2 years while preparing and hopefully clearing the SQE. The 10k pounds grant (Only Magic circle law firms- only Links and HSF are hiring Indians recently) is simply not enough to sustain in London for that much time.
After you get the TC, it's still going to be hard to sustain in the 50-60k, do consider the 45% taxation in London, UK along with other charges like health cess. And then finally you may end up being an associate. Then to your disdain and shock, your pay will remain the same 100k-110k over the next 8-9 years (Tax alert), considering you don't get fired sooner as these firms have an up or out policy.
After that they make you a salaried partner/ counsel and your pay may become 200k, but it's rare that an Indian achieves this (2 in the last decade). Forget equity partnership.
Coming back to your question, no a gold medal, meaning a 1st in a subject, will be considered to be much much much more critical than a Jessup, which firms don't really care about actually.
Also you are talking about 'qualifying Jessup'. It may make a minute impression only if you 'Win' the world rounds of the Jessup.
But I don't get it, with the low pay and so many months of unemployment why do toppers glamorize this?
Also you are saying equity jaise jaate hi banadenge, understand you are an Indian among white Harvard and Oxbridge top grads whose alumni form the partnerships of these firms. In firms like Links and HSF you need to work consistently (bringing business and covering hours) for atleast 15 years to be "considered" for equity partnership
Considered doesn't mean promotion, it means all partners have to elect for your promotion. Do you really think you stand a chance among other white Harvard/ oxbridge/ UCL grads. Check the statistics sir before commenting.
Imagine you are a recruiting HR/ Partner. You see a CV with CGPA 8. Then you see another with CGPA 8 but one year drop.
I know it isn't sky and ground, but won't you ask them why they took 6 years for a 5 year LLB? Why did they fail? You won't ask the same to the first guy, would you?
Unless you have a really good reply or justification, won't it atleast cost some difference? Why do you think people work so hard to pass exams. Aisa Hota toh you would just fail in the first repeat and repeat the year with flying colours.
1. Doing a VS isn't the only way, you also have the Direct TC route. Look it up.
2. TOP 5 NLU IS CAP- Someone from SLS Pune got into Links last year - look it up - don't say exceptions are always there since there are no exceptions to prerequisites - ye top 5 NLU wali baat iss bande ne prerequisite jaisi sound karai hai
3 - For A&O, you only have to study for the SQE 1 remotely - prep lasts 5-6 months - you are paid a maintenance grant for that - SQE 2 you take when you commence your TC in London - PS - you don't prepare for x months and take the exams ek saath - prep time ke beech me hee exams hote hain -
TC to associate isn't that difficult - sure if you underperform you'll be fired but the firm isn't training you, paying for your SQE, paying you a maintenance grant just to say goodbye after 2 years - think of this from their side
Trainee pay isn't peanuts- people survive on a lot less in London - it's the top 1 percentile pay in the city dude.
110k stagnancy is a joke - use reddit - i can confirm that the numbers are north of 135k for an A2 at Freshfields and they increase steadily - partner makes 600k easy , equity partners are million +
The jessup point is correct - so nothing wrong here
So for getting shortlisted to the next round, you need to have strong academics, along with co-curriculars (incl. publications, moots, ADR etc.). After the first stage, it is a different game, not restricted only to marks or batch rank. The second interview (usually with HR) is easy enough and most people qualify. The Assessment Centre is the thing to be prepared for. You need to inhale the website of the firm, recent deals, what they are looking for, where are they earning money from, which practise areas do they focus, who are their clients etc. Tie in all of this in the personal interview. I believe the main factor for selection is the performance in the technical interview - where a situation is given and you are asked for suggestions as a lawyer on that transaction.
You need to think on your feet, give answers that they are looking for, and it is very important to behave like a top lawyer there, have confidence on your own answers. The AC is the heart of this process.
So focus on academics (solution to everything) and also keep in mind that UK firms may not be looking for the toppers, but they always shortlist on marks and academics.
1. What was your rank in the batch? Gold medal is 1st, did u get 2nd, 3rd, 4rth?
2. Jessup nahi kiye, did u do any other moot? Jessup nahi kiya par Vis Vienna jeeta?
1. Top 20 Rank
2. Didn't do a single moot.
There is a lack of imagination if you think this is all law firms are looking for.
At the outset I had:
1. Good internships/Sterling recommendations
2. Polyglot
3. Good extra curriculars
4. Terrific interview
HR/Interviewers are looking for a good fit. If you think a gold medal or getting a participation certificate at Jessup is going to get ensure you a job, you are sorely mistaken.
Noone cares about a participation certificate from a moot (at Indian or international law firms). If you win Jessup (or make finals/semis) then sure, that may help you.
Gold medals certainly help, but they're not a pre-requisite either.
Work on your academics, and demonstrate that you're an interesting person - law firms are looking for good fits
2. In no way am I trying to diminish the efforts taken to get a gold medal or to reach the international rounds of Jessup. It takes a lot of effort and hard work to get to these places. So I disagree with someone below saying "no one cares". I am sure some folks might. I am just questioning the notion that law firms are not willing to look beyond medals/jessup for their candidates. Perhaps in lower tier colleges they might only be looking at the top rankers, but at NLS, they assumed most candidates were worth considering during my time. Things might have changed since.
3. Having Jessup/Gold medals will secure an interview perhaps, but you still need to prove yourself during the group discussions/interviews. People who are prepared for these stages will fare better than those who walk in without any preparation. This was one of the places I differentiated myself from someone who might definitely had better grades than me.
4. I can't emphasize this enough. Interviews aren't only about proving your competence in the law, it is also about showing the interviewer you are a good person to work with. Personality matters. They are looking for well rounded people, not automatons.