Yeah true the admin is much more responsive to your requests which is because you all are struggling. Sudhir also wants to impose some kind of reservation system on firms where they will have to necessarily pick 1 LLB student for every 3 BALLB students that the firm picks.
Sure, you all have experience, more mature, and whatnot, can you name one inter-batch competition where LLB students have fared better? Be it, moots, ADRs, or journals (Other than batch reservation)?
It's surprising how mature people with work ex are struggling to compete against Joe from BALLB.
Seems like I hit submit before I could complete the text, but yeah I hope you get my point.
I won't try to convince you since imo it's a personal opinion at some level. If you don't like the nls way of things, it's a very legit reason to not join nls and rather opt for nalsar/nlud. At the end of the day, you should be content with the university you go to. I was the happiest when I got into NLS, so that happiness is more valuable to me than any comparisons, extra-opportunities that nls provides.
Not the person you responded to, but I would like to quip in.
See I haven't gone through llm admission yet, I'm still doing my BA LLB in NLS so can't tell if foreign universities goes gaga over nls student lol.
But I can tell you that nls gives you more opportunities from the first year itself. If you take the example of adr, moots. First years can participate in uni moots directly, there's no need to first compete within your batch and then a few of them get to participate in university rounds.
This imo gives you a lot of opportunity to build your cv, this year we've multiple first years who got good ranks in university rounds who'll be representing nls in various national and international competitions.
This was just one example, there are other opportunities which are open to you at nls frkm the
Okay, so a lot of Legally India has B.A. LLB kids trashing the LLB Students and the LL.B. (Hons.) course at NLS. Let's set the record straight.
Firstly, work experience and internships. While it is true that your average 5th Year Joe from the B.A. LLB course may have done a couple of corporate law internships. Two responses: (i.) A few internships does not necessarily mean a good posh corporate job. Look at the fifth year batch this year. A lot of other factors also matter - including what you did, where you did your internship, and whether your placements went well enough. (ii.) The LL.B. (Hons.) batch has actual work experience, forget internships. Compare the 5th Year Joe to your average James in the LL.B. (Hons.) : The NLS degree is their second or third academic degree, they have a few years of work experience (we have people who have worked in corporate firms, consulting roles, and even a little known place called the Indian bureaucracy), are more mature, and have experience of sitting in placements before. It seems to me to be a no-brainer that you can compare Joe and James in the latters' favour.
Second, course structure. It is true that we are a relatively newer course but the significant advantage is that the administration is much more flexible and responsive to our needs than the B.A. LLB course. While Joe might have done more corporate law electives and courses in their five years, the administration has been willing to move around courses - particularly, corporate law courses - to make sure that we can sit for placements when the time comes and that we are ready for them. Of course, it will be multi-factoral, as was in the case of the B.A. LLB students, but we will be prepared for it. There is no indication to the contrary so far. At any rate, we will get to see what happens next year when the first batch sits for their placements.
Comparisons can be made, outcomes are never fixed, and it is never nice to be cocky on a public forum. Acing CLAT does not a genius make.
Not really, the number of year losses has actually decreased a lot after Sudhir has taken charge. Sure, he is strict, but one thing he has done is introduce moderation, which ensures that not many people fail a particular course. There are instances where 50/80 students had failed a course. Now, it should not be more than 10/80. Another measure he has taken is lowering the passing marks for each subject from 50 to 40.
That's such a stupid metric to cite more people being held back with year loss as a sign of a more academically rigorous course. First, the number of people with a year back even at NLS are not a whole lot more barring some exceptional batches. Second, a place like NLIU Bhopal back in 2018-19, had nearly 30-40 students from a batch being held back. Does that mean that NLIU Bhopal now has the most rigorous curriculum among all NLUs? The trimester thing by itself is pretty overhyped by past alumni of NLS. It isn't any more rigorous than at other top law schools. What makes a course rigorous is the quality of students that compete to do well.
I never mentioned that NLS students are better than peeps from NALSAR or other top NLUs. They are more or less similar. I do believe that it is equally difficult to top NLS as it is to top NALSAR/NUJS etc. However, it is easier to pass a subject in other NLUs than in NLS which can easily be proved by the number of students with year loss that exist in every batch
The LLB batch ain't gonna affect the placements of B.A.LLB batch. The day zero takes place in the first trimester of the year. You can never compare a 5th Year B.A.LLB student with a 3rd year LLB guy. A 5th year B.A.LLB student would have done 3-4 corp internships, a lot of corp specific electives which the 3-year guy would not have done. The LLB batch will only sit for day one.
Hard to believe the first part unless you’re actually able to offer a few real instances of people from NLS with relatively lower CGPAs getting into these places with people from NALSAR have been outright rejected. And even if that’s the case, I doubt the NLS brand is what makes that happen compared to that individual’s own application profile/work experience. LLMs in USA, except maybe Yale and to a lesser degree Harvard, are not that difficult to get into even for above-average tier-1 NLU graduates, so what other special advantages does NLS really offer?
From what I understand from my sources, HUL is not as regular a recruiter, and they take only 1 person (maybe 2) when they do come around. Similar to McKinsey (which hasn’t recruited from the place for a while now). In a batch size of 300+, how many such opportunities will even arise for the newer students there? But you maybe right that some of these places come only to NLS. What are the other corporates that come “only” to NLS to show the distinctive advantage here? Name some of the others too.
Lol, such delusions of grandeur. There is no qualitative difference between NLSIU students and those from other NLUs. Only the former think that they are exclusive, nobody else thinks so.
The first claim is rubbish and without any proof. As for the second, that's also stupid. There are certain companies who go to specific NLUs. Like ITC goes to NUJS, Adani goes to GNLU. On a whole, NALSAR has much better placements every year than NLS. The latter have been afraid to even release their placement report for many years now, knowing that the balloon will be pricked the moment they do so.
Honestly as a nalsar alum- who has seen up close what the nls alumni circle is about- yeah we’re missing out. Our alumni circles barely exist and even then only to meet at a bar once in a while. Nls alumni have each other’s back. When my friend from nls was applying for masters programmes - she had like an nls person at every school she wanted to apply to and she had that person agree to review her work and give her comments and coach her application. I had a couple of seniors who did agree to read my SOP and stuff - but even they got back to me too late without any real comments. I actually ended up having to use his connections and speaking this seniors about the things I wanted to do. I’ve been around older nls people - there is obviously love and affection for folks from their alma mater. They donate more, they mentor more, they push more fiercely to hire and work with folks from their university. Nalsar just doesn’t have that kind of culture - yeah if you meet someone who went to the same college you might get a drink with them maybe reminisce about nani dhaba, or sai/Shankar’s, or even some older professors. But you genuinely don’t feel ownership enough to want to help them out.
Nls alumni will gather together to make sure a Sudhir type person will be the next VC. Nalsar alumni were divided on faizan mustafa which is okay- but they did not come together to think of another suitable candidate and did not bother looking or pushing for anyone else. It’s almost like there’s no sense of ownership of the place - only a sense of- having survived the place - commiserate with fellow survivors - but don’t necessarily do much to change things.
Add to that nalsar today looks very very different to the nalsar of even 5 years ago. There’s ever more increasing number of students. And programs like mba/ whatever else whose students are seen as separate entities. We don’t do ranks families, we don’t really do mentorship apart from whatever happens organically. We don’t really do institution building. We learnt what little of it we could from an nls alum who teaches at nalsar and tried to replicate some of it - but even he would acknowledge that the alumni of the two universities behave very differently.
Even nalsar alumni who turn up to teach at the university- just so many of them have left over the years. And not for good reasons. And they’re not necessarily keen to come back. Some have left because admin did not give them proper consideration/ did not regularise positions, some left because they did not see proper mentorship from university professors they were keen on, some left dejected over how things had gotten progressively worse in terms of academic standards and even more left because that recent FM Kista drama and others left over greener pastures which is unavoidable. There’s one or two folks who are still roughing it out- but there’s no self reflection about why that number is so low when every nls alumnus from Sudhir to raag to whoever is keen on working with their university.
This is not to say that this is a fixed state- nalsar alumni could grow to be more collectivised in the future. And I still did have alumni who helped me at other points and I did have professors who continued to work for me long past what should have been expected. And maybe nls alumni will also change behaviour now that they’re increasing programmes and numbers by quite a bit. Or maybe the kind of mentorship you get will change somewhat unless the university has some sort of plan for all this.
But yeah. There’s definitely a difference to being an nls kid and a nalsar kid. Not for a long time in terms of the kind of education you got- though that’s changing. And not in terms of raw intellect- but in terms of what kind of support you’ve gotten definitely.
Even in terms of opportunity- fewer Oxford admits, fewer Rhodes scholars, fewer people who have done varied and interesting things with their careers, fewer people in Consulting roles and in world banks and fewer people ( almost none?) working at the top 20 law schools in America.
That makes a difference. If we acknowledge it we can do something about it. If we’d rather ignore it things will only get worse.
As a side note - yes, it’s easier for NLS alumni to get admission at Oxford (and a lot of other top universities). It is not uncommon (but very difficult nevertheless) for NLS students ranked in the 5-10% bracket with 5.5-6/7 GPAs to get into the BCL whereas they require minimum 7+/8 and strictly top 5% rank for NALSARites.
You might call it knitpicking, but companies like HUL and a some other corporates only come to NLS. NLS is also very well known in academic circles abroad. NALSAR is a non starter. I say this as someone who has spent a few years abroad.
Because the question papers are made and checked by the smartest minds as well. The number of people failing has gone down after Sudhir has taken over due to the moderation policy and lowering the passing marks but before that, there are records of 50/80, people failing in a subject
Well it just happens. Every year a few people fail or are held back, in the 3rd year this becomes especially rampant in the 3rd year.
Also the batch consists not just the top 50 CLAT rankers, it also has students who got in by domicile and other reservations, it's usually them who fall behind.
I get that NLS is probably still the best law school in India and dropping for NALSAR (which is going through an administrative change) may not be as advisable, atm. But seriously, come on, what "better" non-law firm opportunities does it really offer compared to the other top NLUs? Does Oxford accept a NLS batch rank 40 for its program while only preferring the top 10 from other law schools, or does Bangalore have some unique litigation opportunities that can't be found elsewhere? In the previous decade, the hype about NLS was its 100% corporate firm placements but now that's not as robust or assured due to competition from other newer law schools. And now you're claiming that its other opportunities now make it better, when that's just not true.
NLS should ideally be having the best corporate placements considering that they have the most number of alumni in Partner positions, courtesy of them being the oldest law school. And while the alumni base is admirably strong given how old the place is, I don't see NLS alumni addressing the big elephant in the room of the massive expansion plan to bring in over 300 students in the LLB. Apart from diluting the "close knit" alumni structure in the long term, it'll also dilute the NLU experience of a small but good quality batch size with personalised attention and wider opportunities. This could also have advantages, no doubt, but when I took the CLAT/AILET, the attractive prospect was the exclusive and smaller batch sizes of the few top NLUs compared to other universities (including the top DU ones) across the country.
I graduated a while back. Here are a few things I think you should know.
1. If you're knew to computers/typing, start using an online typing tutor and improving your typing speed. It will help.
2. Placements are good. But in first year, focus on keeping good grades and trying to do things other than academics.
3. Trimester system is difficult, but it is what it is. I wouldn't change colleges just because of semester system.
4. I would tell my 18 year old self that I am working in house and making bank. I am very happy and fulfilled. And all the work does pay off in the end. What I would also tell myself is that no matter what the setbacks and challenges, it is best to be forgiving of yourself and move forward.
5. Take care of yourself. Be around positive people. For me the best thing I got out of law school wasn't the degree or the opportunities, but the amazing friends. They are still a huge part of my life even if we don't stay in the same cities. They are your rock when you need support, and they are there when you have something to celebrate.
6. It is very tempting to just do what everyone else is doing, but I think if I were to do things again, I might have tried to study and work smarter. Spent more time outside the campus when I could, but again this requires money, which at the time I didn't have.
Best of luck! I hope you have a great time in Law school.
There are seldom conversations about how this and this NLU had better placements than us but at the end of the day NLS has a lot more to offer than just placements.You are get to interact with the smartest minds, form lifelong relationships.
It feels weird when you see people failing exams, it gets worse in the 3rd year. The three semester system has its own share of downsides but personally i don't mind it.
Everyone gets a job. Most people get the job they want. Trimesters are good- they build work ethic. Its no wonder that law school grads outperform folks at work because theyre used to operating at a different gear! Dont go to nalsar- university is in a very precarious position with FM leaving. NLS is the better bet. 18 year old me would be proud of who ive turned into.
Don’t know what hype you’re talking about re: placements, but I doubt anything will change short term.
Generally, NLS gives you better non-law firm opportunities (like academia, LLM, in-house and litigation) than other Indian universities. Re: corporate placements (both in India and abroad) I don’t think there’s much of a difference (or has been for the past decade) between NLS, NALSAR, NUJS, NLUJ, NLUD etc.
Do not be whimsical in switching to NALSAR. NLS will remain NLS for at least another decade. Things do not change that quickly. And even beyond, it’s small close knit alumni community will remain unique.
As far as corporate jobs are concerned, I would not push myself to make a decision at 18. You’ve got 5 years of law school (and beyond!) to think about it. Money is important, but perhaps a sense of purpose/passion too. And let’s not underestimate how/whether AI/GPT and entry of foreign firms will change the landscape 5-10 years from now. When in doubt, stick with the tried and tested - in this case, NLS.
Sure, you all have experience, more mature, and whatnot, can you name one inter-batch competition where LLB students have fared better? Be it, moots, ADRs, or journals (Other than batch reservation)?
It's surprising how mature people with work ex are struggling to compete against Joe from BALLB.
I won't try to convince you since imo it's a personal opinion at some level. If you don't like the nls way of things, it's a very legit reason to not join nls and rather opt for nalsar/nlud. At the end of the day, you should be content with the university you go to. I was the happiest when I got into NLS, so that happiness is more valuable to me than any comparisons, extra-opportunities that nls provides.
See I haven't gone through llm admission yet, I'm still doing my BA LLB in NLS so can't tell if foreign universities goes gaga over nls student lol.
But I can tell you that nls gives you more opportunities from the first year itself. If you take the example of adr, moots. First years can participate in uni moots directly, there's no need to first compete within your batch and then a few of them get to participate in university rounds.
This imo gives you a lot of opportunity to build your cv, this year we've multiple first years who got good ranks in university rounds who'll be representing nls in various national and international competitions.
This was just one example, there are other opportunities which are open to you at nls frkm the
Firstly, work experience and internships. While it is true that your average 5th Year Joe from the B.A. LLB course may have done a couple of corporate law internships. Two responses: (i.) A few internships does not necessarily mean a good posh corporate job. Look at the fifth year batch this year. A lot of other factors also matter - including what you did, where you did your internship, and whether your placements went well enough. (ii.) The LL.B. (Hons.) batch has actual work experience, forget internships. Compare the 5th Year Joe to your average James in the LL.B. (Hons.) : The NLS degree is their second or third academic degree, they have a few years of work experience (we have people who have worked in corporate firms, consulting roles, and even a little known place called the Indian bureaucracy), are more mature, and have experience of sitting in placements before. It seems to me to be a no-brainer that you can compare Joe and James in the latters' favour.
Second, course structure. It is true that we are a relatively newer course but the significant advantage is that the administration is much more flexible and responsive to our needs than the B.A. LLB course. While Joe might have done more corporate law electives and courses in their five years, the administration has been willing to move around courses - particularly, corporate law courses - to make sure that we can sit for placements when the time comes and that we are ready for them. Of course, it will be multi-factoral, as was in the case of the B.A. LLB students, but we will be prepared for it. There is no indication to the contrary so far. At any rate, we will get to see what happens next year when the first batch sits for their placements.
Comparisons can be made, outcomes are never fixed, and it is never nice to be cocky on a public forum. Acing CLAT does not a genius make.
From what I understand from my sources, HUL is not as regular a recruiter, and they take only 1 person (maybe 2) when they do come around. Similar to McKinsey (which hasn’t recruited from the place for a while now). In a batch size of 300+, how many such opportunities will even arise for the newer students there? But you maybe right that some of these places come only to NLS. What are the other corporates that come “only” to NLS to show the distinctive advantage here? Name some of the others too.
Nls alumni will gather together to make sure a Sudhir type person will be the next VC. Nalsar alumni were divided on faizan mustafa which is okay- but they did not come together to think of another suitable candidate and did not bother looking or pushing for anyone else. It’s almost like there’s no sense of ownership of the place - only a sense of- having survived the place - commiserate with fellow survivors - but don’t necessarily do much to change things.
Add to that nalsar today looks very very different to the nalsar of even 5 years ago. There’s ever more increasing number of students. And programs like mba/ whatever else whose students are seen as separate entities. We don’t do ranks families, we don’t really do mentorship apart from whatever happens organically. We don’t really do institution building. We learnt what little of it we could from an nls alum who teaches at nalsar and tried to replicate some of it - but even he would acknowledge that the alumni of the two universities behave very differently.
Even nalsar alumni who turn up to teach at the university- just so many of them have left over the years. And not for good reasons. And they’re not necessarily keen to come back. Some have left because admin did not give them proper consideration/ did not regularise positions, some left because they did not see proper mentorship from university professors they were keen on, some left dejected over how things had gotten progressively worse in terms of academic standards and even more left because that recent FM Kista drama and others left over greener pastures which is unavoidable. There’s one or two folks who are still roughing it out- but there’s no self reflection about why that number is so low when every nls alumnus from Sudhir to raag to whoever is keen on working with their university.
This is not to say that this is a fixed state- nalsar alumni could grow to be more collectivised in the future. And I still did have alumni who helped me at other points and I did have professors who continued to work for me long past what should have been expected. And maybe nls alumni will also change behaviour now that they’re increasing programmes and numbers by quite a bit. Or maybe the kind of mentorship you get will change somewhat unless the university has some sort of plan for all this.
But yeah. There’s definitely a difference to being an nls kid and a nalsar kid. Not for a long time in terms of the kind of education you got- though that’s changing. And not in terms of raw intellect- but in terms of what kind of support you’ve gotten definitely.
Even in terms of opportunity- fewer Oxford admits, fewer Rhodes scholars, fewer people who have done varied and interesting things with their careers, fewer people in Consulting roles and in world banks and fewer people ( almost none?) working at the top 20 law schools in America.
That makes a difference. If we acknowledge it we can do something about it. If we’d rather ignore it things will only get worse.
You might call it knitpicking, but companies like HUL and a some other corporates only come to NLS. NLS is also very well known in academic circles abroad. NALSAR is a non starter. I say this as someone who has spent a few years abroad.
Also the batch consists not just the top 50 CLAT rankers, it also has students who got in by domicile and other reservations, it's usually them who fall behind.
NLS should ideally be having the best corporate placements considering that they have the most number of alumni in Partner positions, courtesy of them being the oldest law school. And while the alumni base is admirably strong given how old the place is, I don't see NLS alumni addressing the big elephant in the room of the massive expansion plan to bring in over 300 students in the LLB. Apart from diluting the "close knit" alumni structure in the long term, it'll also dilute the NLU experience of a small but good quality batch size with personalised attention and wider opportunities. This could also have advantages, no doubt, but when I took the CLAT/AILET, the attractive prospect was the exclusive and smaller batch sizes of the few top NLUs compared to other universities (including the top DU ones) across the country.
1. If you're knew to computers/typing, start using an online typing tutor and improving your typing speed. It will help.
2. Placements are good. But in first year, focus on keeping good grades and trying to do things other than academics.
3. Trimester system is difficult, but it is what it is. I wouldn't change colleges just because of semester system.
4. I would tell my 18 year old self that I am working in house and making bank. I am very happy and fulfilled. And all the work does pay off in the end. What I would also tell myself is that no matter what the setbacks and challenges, it is best to be forgiving of yourself and move forward.
5. Take care of yourself. Be around positive people. For me the best thing I got out of law school wasn't the degree or the opportunities, but the amazing friends. They are still a huge part of my life even if we don't stay in the same cities. They are your rock when you need support, and they are there when you have something to celebrate.
6. It is very tempting to just do what everyone else is doing, but I think if I were to do things again, I might have tried to study and work smarter. Spent more time outside the campus when I could, but again this requires money, which at the time I didn't have.
Best of luck! I hope you have a great time in Law school.
And for that you need time, for that tri semester is not ideal.
NLS guys will make you sound it as if you're missing orgies at campus.
Go to Nalsar it's actually much better than NLS
There are seldom conversations about how this and this NLU had better placements than us but at the end of the day NLS has a lot more to offer than just placements.You are get to interact with the smartest minds, form lifelong relationships.
It feels weird when you see people failing exams, it gets worse in the 3rd year. The three semester system has its own share of downsides but personally i don't mind it.
Generally, NLS gives you better non-law firm opportunities (like academia, LLM, in-house and litigation) than other Indian universities. Re: corporate placements (both in India and abroad) I don’t think there’s much of a difference (or has been for the past decade) between NLS, NALSAR, NUJS, NLUJ, NLUD etc.
Do not be whimsical in switching to NALSAR. NLS will remain NLS for at least another decade. Things do not change that quickly. And even beyond, it’s small close knit alumni community will remain unique.
As far as corporate jobs are concerned, I would not push myself to make a decision at 18. You’ve got 5 years of law school (and beyond!) to think about it. Money is important, but perhaps a sense of purpose/passion too. And let’s not underestimate how/whether AI/GPT and entry of foreign firms will change the landscape 5-10 years from now. When in doubt, stick with the tried and tested - in this case, NLS.
Good luck! :)
Is it worth the trimester, or should one consider switching to NALSAR if one has the choice?
How would your 18 year old self feel about your high paying corporate job if he/she were to speak to you?