This is absolutely massive. The future of the internet and even the world may have changed today. More than Parag Agarwal's firing, the firing of Vijaya Gadde is more significant. She was the main target of the RW and accused of wokeness, banning Trump, banning discussions on the Wuhan lab leak, Hunter Biden etc. She also appeared on Joe Rogan too and got into an argument with him. In India, she got into controversy as she set up a meeting with Jack Dorsey and LW activists and got him to hold a poster saying "Smash Brahminical Patriarchy". She also oversaw bans/shadow bans on many Indian RW influencers, such as Kangana Ranaut, True Indology, Abhijit Iyer Mitra etc.
What you're going to see in the next few days is bans being lifted on all RW accounts and RW speech being allowed to be expressed unfiltered. This may impact the midterms and all future elections, including 2024 US and India. But expect a pushback too. Biden may double down on social media regulation.
Curious to know what LI readers think? Whose side are you on? Elon or Vijaya?
More interesting legal question really are: if Elon is trying to dodge paying Vijaya her $10m golden parachute by claiming he fired for cause, what are the odds she will sue to enforce and what are the odds she can win it, and how long will it take?
Also interesting: Twitter (aka, now Elon) has accrued $100m in legal fees in its fight to get Elon to consummate the merger. Cheaper than the $1bn termination fee Elon would have had to pay, but a great outcome for the lawyers involved!
Just because it'll upset the trolls and Elon fanboys, here's the official LI opinion: Elon's a professional troll / clown / liar with more money and ego than sense these days.
Twitter was a toxic cesspit and will likely get even more of a toxic cesspit, and you're right, if Elon tries to implement anything-goes zero-moderation, some governments (not just the US) will step in faster and harder than a Tesla accelerates.
1. It is not the job of a moderator to take sides.
2. You yourself are a clown.
3. Wokism is a menace that has shut down debates on matters of critical importance, be it related to science or politics. So Elon's take-over is much needed.
1. Why does the opinion of the moderator, trying to have a discussion with you, upset you so much? We feel it is a good moderator's duty to give perspective because other readers are apparently not interested in your discussions and can't be bothered to reply to you, so we thought you'd enjoy a discussion with someone semi-anonymous, who still allows you to publish your one-sided rants.
2. Instead, you go ad hominem again, which has apparently been a standard playbook for Elon and his fanboys.
Therefore, this is our last attempt. Please consider yourself put on notice and future posts (or any likely-trollish 'culture war' posts) like this may not be published at all anymore, if you do not display a bona fide attempt to engage with the below questions.
3. Genuine question: what "critical science debates" has wokeness shut down?
Politics / society - sure, arguably some topics have become holy cows online and people get 'cancelled' or thrown off platforms for being racist, with the high watermark of the culture wars perhaps being the JK Rowling trans debate.
But how is wokeness any worse than many religions that way, which aren't great at tolerating criticism (and have often even resulted in real-world violence)? Or any other strong political belief, for that matter, that does not tolerate dissent?
And surely the current dispensation is at least as intolerant of dissent and criticism of its policies or politics as 'the wokes'?
As outlined above, if you are a genuine operator and are actually interested in discourse rather than shitposting or constantly crying about 'oh no, the wokes!' and resorting to insults when someone disagrees with you, we will expect a response from you (or others who share your views).
Failure to do so, will result in effective soft-bans on topics which have little to do with law, are political in nature, and unlikely to be posted with any interest in a discussion (we have engaged with enough such posts in the last few weeks and received no responses other than ad hominem, so it should not be difficult to identify these - they also receive very little traffic on LI, so the trade-off will be worth it)
Please write the substance of your complaints in a comment, including with reasoning, and we will make sure Kian sees it.
See the post above, you are hereby put on notice: Unless you provide a well-reasoned, bona-fide post here, any future similar posts crying about how biased and mean the moderator is, will not be published because they add no value to the discussion.
Mr./Ms. Moderator, It is devoid of merits when you say you will decide the posts which are questioning your moderationwhether a post is well-reasoned, bona-fide. Sounds like accused and the judge is one and same person. What a farce!! Cheers.
Closing this branch of inquiry, since mod queries have received no response (other than the above) in days: Elon fanboys are trolls who have no interest in substantive debate and instead make claims like "wokism is more dangerous than fascism" without having the reasoning abilities to back it up.
Might I just say that I am enjoying the present moderator. He has some sense and doesnt shy away from calling out these foolish, ignorant, inept, uneducated, decrepit, woke non-entities who have nothing positive to contribute other than their "outrage" which has precisely zero/crap value. Well done sir. You are doing the lord's work.
[Merged into this thread: This tweet by Elon Musk confirms worries that Twitter may legitimise hate speech]
Just look at this. Exactly Trump's language. This man is the new owner of Twitter.
FYI here is the context: Elon tweeted a link to a far-right news site claiming that Paul Pelosi was not attacked by a MAGA racist but that Pelosi was drunk and fought with a male prostitute. This is SICK. 🤮 The man is 82 and nearly died. Even Trump has distanced himself from the attack.
Those of you are fans of Elon and support "free speech absolutism", please pause and ask yourselves what will happen if that really happens. From neo-Nazis to ISIS, everyone will get a free voice. That Is what "free speech absolutism means".
Thanks for your feedback, but really fail to see the issue. What you describe could mean:
1. Shitty mod moderates your trollish shit-post.
2. Shitty mod logs out and responds to your shit-post anonymously or under a different handle with a post of their own (which you feel is a shitty post).
3. Shitty mod logs in and approves their own post (which you deem to be shit).
4. You complain why shitty mod approved someone else's shit and not your own.
The current system, we believe, is far more transparent, and if you'd rather we operate in the shadows and banned you without explaining why, then please explain why.
At the end of the day, we hope you will get used to being moderated if most of what you're doing is being a dick not interested in discussion. You should also get used to people having different opinions from you and calling you out on your bullshit.
PIERS MORGAN: Joe Rogan is spot on. What you've seen with Twitter is a very woke workforce who had basically been shadow-banning conservative commentators from Twitter for a long time. We've all known this. They've also been almost exclusively banning people on the right without banning people on the left for similar offenses. … But there again, [Elon Musk] is going to bring back comedy, the ability to have a laugh, to banter with people without fearing that you're going to get canceled. And I really think this is long overdue. And the reaction from the left, I have to say, has been miserably predictable. It reminds me of when Donald Trump was named president. They all said, 'we're all leaving the country.'
This is hilarious, thanks for sharing. So by 'black comedy' basically Piers Morgan means 4chan /pol and /b and being a mysoginist and racist asshole to people. Rather than actual black comedy that actually requires being a little bit talented and intelligent (unlike, presumably, Piers Morgan for whom that's too much work?).
Getting more 🍿 supplies, this really is going to be hilarious how poor Elon is going to play this all out (at least as long as Bolsonaro and Trump aren't in positions of responsibility anymore to cause more genuine harm).
This is absolutely massive. The future of the internet and even the world may have changed today. More than Parag Agarwal's firing, the firing of Vijaya Gadde is more significant. She was the main target of the RW and accused of wokeness, banning Trump, banning discussions on the Wuhan lab leak, Hunter Biden etc. She also appeared on Joe Rogan too and got into an argument with him. In India, she got into controversy as she set up a meeting with Jack Dorsey and LW activists and got him to hold a poster saying "Smash Brahminical Patriarchy". She also oversaw bans/shadow bans on many Indian RW influencers, such as Kangana Ranaut, True Indology, Abhijit Iyer Mitra etc.
What you're going to see in the next few days is bans being lifted on all RW accounts and RW speech being allowed to be expressed unfiltered. This may impact the midterms and all future elections, including 2024 US and India. But expect a pushback too. Biden may double down on social media regulation.
Curious to know what LI readers think? Whose side are you on? Elon or Vijaya?
Going viral.
Also interesting: Twitter (aka, now Elon) has accrued $100m in legal fees in its fight to get Elon to consummate the merger. Cheaper than the $1bn termination fee Elon would have had to pay, but a great outcome for the lawyers involved!
Twitter was a toxic cesspit and will likely get even more of a toxic cesspit, and you're right, if Elon tries to implement anything-goes zero-moderation, some governments (not just the US) will step in faster and harder than a Tesla accelerates.
2. You yourself are a clown.
3. Wokism is a menace that has shut down debates on matters of critical importance, be it related to science or politics. So Elon's take-over is much needed.
2. Instead, you go ad hominem again, which has apparently been a standard playbook for Elon and his fanboys.
Therefore, this is our last attempt. Please consider yourself put on notice and future posts (or any likely-trollish 'culture war' posts) like this may not be published at all anymore, if you do not display a bona fide attempt to engage with the below questions.
3. Genuine question: what "critical science debates" has wokeness shut down?
Politics / society - sure, arguably some topics have become holy cows online and people get 'cancelled' or thrown off platforms for being racist, with the high watermark of the culture wars perhaps being the JK Rowling trans debate.
But how is wokeness any worse than many religions that way, which aren't great at tolerating criticism (and have often even resulted in real-world violence)? Or any other strong political belief, for that matter, that does not tolerate dissent?
And surely the current dispensation is at least as intolerant of dissent and criticism of its policies or politics as 'the wokes'?
As outlined above, if you are a genuine operator and are actually interested in discourse rather than shitposting or constantly crying about 'oh no, the wokes!' and resorting to insults when someone disagrees with you, we will expect a response from you (or others who share your views).
Failure to do so, will result in effective soft-bans on topics which have little to do with law, are political in nature, and unlikely to be posted with any interest in a discussion (we have engaged with enough such posts in the last few weeks and received no responses other than ad hominem, so it should not be difficult to identify these - they also receive very little traffic on LI, so the trade-off will be worth it)
See the post above, you are hereby put on notice: Unless you provide a well-reasoned, bona-fide post here, any future similar posts crying about how biased and mean the moderator is, will not be published because they add no value to the discussion.
It is devoid of merits when you say you will decide the posts which are questioning your moderationwhether a post is well-reasoned, bona-fide.
Sounds like accused and the judge is one and same person.
What a farce!!
Cheers.
Asked and answered.
Just look at this. Exactly Trump's language. This man is the new owner of Twitter.
FYI here is the context: Elon tweeted a link to a far-right news site claiming that Paul Pelosi was not attacked by a MAGA racist but that Pelosi was drunk and fought with a male prostitute. This is SICK. 🤮 The man is 82 and nearly died. Even Trump has distanced himself from the attack.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/business/musk-tweets-hillary-clinton-pelosi-husband.html
Those of you are fans of Elon and support "free speech absolutism", please pause and ask yourselves what will happen if that really happens. From neo-Nazis to ISIS, everyone will get a free voice. That Is what "free speech absolutism means".
This is an interesting take on how the future will play out, which seems like a pretty realistic scenario: https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/28/23428132/elon-musk-twitter-acquisition-problems-speech-moderation
Getting ready the🍿
Ps: Also some interesting thoughts and lessons on 'moderation', also for LI.
If you have an opinion, regardless of how shitty they are), they're always welcome.
Just have the decency to log off your "official LI account" and log in with your personal username.
Nobody has a problem with your opinion. What creates issues is the unjust amplification of 1 stand over the other.
1. Shitty mod moderates your trollish shit-post.
2. Shitty mod logs out and responds to your shit-post anonymously or under a different handle with a post of their own (which you feel is a shitty post).
3. Shitty mod logs in and approves their own post (which you deem to be shit).
4. You complain why shitty mod approved someone else's shit and not your own.
The current system, we believe, is far more transparent, and if you'd rather we operate in the shadows and banned you without explaining why, then please explain why.
At the end of the day, we hope you will get used to being moderated if most of what you're doing is being a dick not interested in discussion. You should also get used to people having different opinions from you and calling you out on your bullshit.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/piers-morgan-roasts-left-miserably-predictable-meltdown-elon-musk-twitter-takeover
Getting more 🍿 supplies, this really is going to be hilarious how poor Elon is going to play this all out (at least as long as Bolsonaro and Trump aren't in positions of responsibility anymore to cause more genuine harm).