Why is no one talking about the hotly debated topic i.e. Rejuvenation Break in law firms, here on LI? I understand that so far, SAM and King Stubb & Kasiva have declared such breaks. Is there any other firm which has declared such break? What is the reality at ground level? Can we (Firms) really afford this?
I fully credit batch of 2018 onwards for this change in attitude. These kids have come in and really not taking nonsense. I know a lot of older lawyers in law firms go "ah.. no work ethic!" "In my day, we wouldn't dare think of asking for leave for something like this" but something's changed. These kids are drawing boundaries or worse, quitting like mad and also citing mental health liberally. We have lost a few soldiers along the way but the Industry has changed for the better thanks to this attitude.
God bless GenZ. They've seen world economy burn down twice (2008, 2020) before even graduating. Now they take no shit from anyone, everything is transient and dispensible.
These kids leave firms en mass. But replacements can be bought in within a few hours. It's slightly hard to replace an SA, but A0 and A2? - College RCC's and thousands of kids from Tier 3 law firms/Chambers are knocking on the door to get in. Don't be delusional.
Only a person who has never invested time and energy training a kid for months or years can say this.
It is like telling a guy saying "yeh nahi toh koi aur" to his friend who just got dumped by his long term girlfriend. It is not that easy to replace quality / well trained A1s.
If my partner said something like this, I'd hate him. Because not only does not value the junior associate, he does not value my / other seniors' contribution in training the associate.
You're missing that everytime some A0-A2 quits, huge chunks of knowledge is lost with them. Replacement will take days/weeks/months to get upto speed on navigating the VDR, learning which client to prioritise, which precedents to reply upon, and so on. Firms need to retain to ensure business continuity.
Man you're delusional. I'm an SA2 at a banking practice and A0-A3 exits hit us the worst. You can always lateral in a senior and ask them to take over a matter. They can blend in seamlessly within a week. But who's going to sit and teach the 7th kid this year how to do a diligence? Who's going to tutor an A1 to draft a red flags list. Our partner burns us down to nubs and then gets very surprised when everyone puts in their papers. Blames "millennial mentality" when she's 35 herself and very much a millennial.
Replacements in few hours?HR is literally hunting for talent and even calling up people.For months replacements are not available.Stop taking crazy shit.
Rich parents let their kids do more things. Play the piano, take swimming lessons, join a sports club etc. etc.
Kids have more hobbies as part of their personalities to take care of. When law firms leave no time for such pursuits, these kids are not able to let go.
Citing mental health just because you do not have mental fortitude to work long hours could also point to weaker bodily constitution of today's generation. A strong body leads to a stronger mind.
This is a result of monetary success.
The anti-dote would be to hire more folks from less privileged backgrounds. But then they may not have had sound english based education to produce good output.
So Tier 1 law firms have no way out - they must have seen the writing on the wall.
To paraphrase - you're saying - these conditions are exploitative that no person who has had a privileged / well-rounded upbringing will work in them... so the business model must hire less-privileged people so that they have no real choice but to accept such conditions.
Sir / ma'am, you sound like a visionary who'll fit right in at the top levels of Amazon's management. Why are you lurking in LegallyIndia comments section and wasting away your life?
1. Exploitative is subjective. If you are getting paid compensation that less than 5% of your country enjoys in return for your willingness to work for 14-16 hours as per a voluntarily signed contract with an uninhibited exit choice - then is that exploitative? Or working with no compensation with no freedom to exit is exploitative? What's the line for calling out something as exploitative? It isn't exploitative unless there are better examples around that produce the same results. Otherwise it's a market standard as per the existing construct.
2. I am saying kids who have had well-rounded upbringing are unable to let go and embrace change and that's why the neurons start firing haywire.
3. Thank you for the compliment. You know Bezos' PA?
Exploitation isn't really subjective. If you make disproportionate profit from someone else's work and pay them a comparatively minuscule sum, then that's exploitation. All T1 firms make a lot of profit from associates' work and pay them only a very small share of it. That's exploitative. The associates don't need to be paid as less as 95% of the population for that to be true.
I love how it's apparently privileged to expect to have a few hours of leisure everyday to spend with yourself or with family when it's common ground in most major financial centres of the world.
Btw most people get fat @ law firms because they stress eat and have no time to work out. Think of that before you offer opinions about how bodily or mentally sound someone is.
I won't even address your classist mudslinging because assuming less privileged people can't speak (or learn) to communicate well in English comes from a place of such immense insecurity that I almost feel sorry for you.
"when it's common ground in most major financial centres of the world"
Hey, what are you smoking?
Even in developed countries - US, UK, Korea and Singapore; Corporate Law & High End Finance Professionals work insane hours, even more than in India. Ask anyone at AM100 - not even among top few.
Germany and France have the lowest legal working hours in the entire world - 30 to 35 hours a week. And workers won't work more than legally required hours in these countries unlike in the developing world.
Guess how much the average associate at a big corporate law firm in Germany or France clocks in? Atleast 60 to 80 hours.
Go to Singapore/London and you can see law firm associates on S-MRT/Tube Stations near midnight going back from Marina Bay or Canary Wharf.
One reason is economics - these jobs are too attractive than even in countries with severe labour shortages; people are willing to work for long hours in these Industries. Apart from the fact that long working hours are the norm in these Industries.
In a country like India, where there is an oversupply of labour - you can imagine the same.
Insane working hours are common across the world for corporate law firms and high end finance related Industries.
This commenter will get the best appraisal at his law firm for brainwashing all (or trying to) at LegallyIndia that they must quietly accept and give into exploitation at Indian law firms because even developed countries have it.The level at which this commenter stinks as a parasite is unbelievable.The gist of the comment is human being does not need to be treated as a human being at an Indian law firm and employees should not protest about it.The factual fallacy with this rubbish argument of commenter that it happens in the "developed " world -THE GREAT RESIGNATION,employees abroad dobt put up with this exploitation and they also dont tolerate parasites like you convincing them that exploitation is the norm and should be accepted
I have a simple question for you: would you let someone slap you and spit on you for ₹50k a day? Can you trade dignity, humanity and respect for money? Is that even possible?
1. Pursuit of leisure is no more than a mere inability to regulate one's dopamine - an attachment of humans who have not overcome primitive reptilian triggers.
2. People who get fat @ law firms because they stress eat are ones who are unable to regulate their passions, again an outcome of point 1 above.
3. Less privileged people can't speak or communicate well in English is a presumption and not an 'assumption' because it's undeniable that generally the same is observably true. Of course, exceptions are there only to prove the general rule. Also, I feel sorry for the way you are able to make vacuous jumps in logic by linking some imagined 'insecurity' with one's statement? How? lol.
Bro, I don't know you. But I feel like your law firm job has left you with no time to pursue things like empathy. And this whole rant on legally India feels like you are justifying your life choices to yourself.
Ye comment timesheet mein daal dena for extra bonus :P
Human existence is a series of “primitive reptilian triggers”, and firm profits help partners fulfil the primitive reptilian trigger of material comfort, security, etc. People go to work for a retainer to fulfil these primitive material triggers. If an employer isn’t giving me the means to fulfil primitive reptilian triggers and I can find a better situation, why shouldn’t I? What do I owe this employer? (Nothing)
Loving my employer more than myself is not one of my primitive reptilian triggers, thankfully.
Baat toh aise kar raha hai jaise tu koi expert hai on mental health, bodily consititution etc. tujhe kya pata what effects long working hours with insane toxicity does to human brains?
P.S.: My firm clearly hasn't.
I fully credit batch of 2018 onwards for this change in attitude. These kids have come in and really not taking nonsense. I know a lot of older lawyers in law firms go "ah.. no work ethic!" "In my day, we wouldn't dare think of asking for leave for something like this" but something's changed. These kids are drawing boundaries or worse, quitting like mad and also citing mental health liberally. We have lost a few soldiers along the way but the Industry has changed for the better thanks to this attitude.
Salaam!
These kids leave firms en mass. But replacements can be bought in within a few hours. It's slightly hard to replace an SA, but A0 and A2? - College RCC's and thousands of kids from Tier 3 law firms/Chambers are knocking on the door to get in. Don't be delusional.
It is like telling a guy saying "yeh nahi toh koi aur" to his friend who just got dumped by his long term girlfriend. It is not that easy to replace quality / well trained A1s.
If my partner said something like this, I'd hate him. Because not only does not value the junior associate, he does not value my / other seniors' contribution in training the associate.
I've seen LI which was a hangout forum of SA and Associates, now become a hangout forum of law school students.
Naturally they overvalue themselves.
Firm mein aane de, apne aap aukaat pata chal jayegi.
Kids have more hobbies as part of their personalities to take care of. When law firms leave no time for such pursuits, these kids are not able to let go.
Citing mental health just because you do not have mental fortitude to work long hours could also point to weaker bodily constitution of today's generation. A strong body leads to a stronger mind.
This is a result of monetary success.
The anti-dote would be to hire more folks from less privileged backgrounds. But then they may not have had sound english based education to produce good output.
So Tier 1 law firms have no way out - they must have seen the writing on the wall.
Sir / ma'am, you sound like a visionary who'll fit right in at the top levels of Amazon's management. Why are you lurking in LegallyIndia comments section and wasting away your life?
2. I am saying kids who have had well-rounded upbringing are unable to let go and embrace change and that's why the neurons start firing haywire.
3. Thank you for the compliment. You know Bezos' PA?
Btw most people get fat @ law firms because they stress eat and have no time to work out. Think of that before you offer opinions about how bodily or mentally sound someone is.
I won't even address your classist mudslinging because assuming less privileged people can't speak (or learn) to communicate well in English comes from a place of such immense insecurity that I almost feel sorry for you.
Hey, what are you smoking?
Even in developed countries - US, UK, Korea and Singapore; Corporate Law & High End Finance Professionals work insane hours, even more than in India. Ask anyone at AM100 - not even among top few.
Germany and France have the lowest legal working hours in the entire world - 30 to 35 hours a week. And workers won't work more than legally required hours in these countries unlike in the developing world.
Guess how much the average associate at a big corporate law firm in Germany or France clocks in? Atleast 60 to 80 hours.
Go to Singapore/London and you can see law firm associates on S-MRT/Tube Stations near midnight going back from Marina Bay or Canary Wharf.
One reason is economics - these jobs are too attractive than even in countries with severe labour shortages; people are willing to work for long hours in these Industries. Apart from the fact that long working hours are the norm in these Industries.
In a country like India, where there is an oversupply of labour - you can imagine the same.
Insane working hours are common across the world for corporate law firms and high end finance related Industries.
Not normalising it, just telling the facts.
2. People who get fat @ law firms because they stress eat are ones who are unable to regulate their passions, again an outcome of point 1 above.
3. Less privileged people can't speak or communicate well in English is a presumption and not an 'assumption' because it's undeniable that generally the same is observably true. Of course, exceptions are there only to prove the general rule. Also, I feel sorry for the way you are able to make vacuous jumps in logic by linking some imagined 'insecurity' with one's statement? How? lol.
Human existence is a series of “primitive reptilian triggers”, and firm profits help partners fulfil the primitive reptilian trigger of material comfort, security, etc. People go to work for a retainer to fulfil these primitive material triggers. If an employer isn’t giving me the means to fulfil primitive reptilian triggers and I can find a better situation, why shouldn’t I? What do I owe this employer? (Nothing)
Loving my employer more than myself is not one of my primitive reptilian triggers, thankfully.