Scouting isn't really done by any Indian public university on an institutional basis. You need the private impetus for it in this country. Plus the VCs rarely see the NLUs as anything other than a platform for their personal profile launching.
The incentives that you speak of can only be created if there are more funds. JGLS provides many of those for example. The source of that can be political which is not really in the hands of the NLU governing bodies. Or it can be fee based, which is. You do the math then. The fees comparison with DU etc. doesn't work because those are government subsidised institutions. The actual cost for your studies there is being borne by the taxpayer. Finally, if you don't owe anything to the institution, then why even bother discussing faculty quality? Doing so and then not giving back is hypocrisy 101. Teaching is a vocation and should not be considered as a mere profession.
1. Write 50 papers in your 5 years on each of the subjects you read that semester. With a deadline. Fully formatted and presentable. Come together with 5-7 like-minded friends and ha e its reviewed and graded by them. Will put you on par with an average NL schoolite who is forced to do this as part of their course. Good research skills are critical. Thats all that you will get to demonstrate at an average inter ship.
2. Try and participate in moots. Avg law schools also participate in most moots. Will hep you learn how to work in a team- with ones you get along and ones you dont. Tey making the team with 1 senior and 1 junior. Learn to take instructions and give instructions. Learn to come out with a work product by the end of the exercise. If you are the speaker- you will grow in confidence when you can express an idea in words. People who can articulate their thoughts, explain their 2 day research in 30 mins are appreciated. Will help you stand out in your internships, and increase chances of PPO- helps you beat the campus recruitment bias towards NLUs.
3. Try and get good inter ships. Dont shy to use your contacts if you have. Get a foot in the door any way you can. Slog your ass of in the PPO like your life depends on it. It will be rewarded.
4. NLU students have a sense of entitlement. If you are looking for a law firm job, for which I can speak about, they are looking for people who dont mind the sweat and are driven. Show them you are, if you are.
5. Use linkedin. Connect with partners from firms you want to work for. Drop them a message asking to speak for 5 mins for career guidance. 9/10 wont reply- its ok. The 1 who does- connect with them. Try to get yourself on their phone book and access to call them for guidance. The genuine one will guide. The others get an ego boost and they will also guide. Get them to be your unofficial.mentor. they will like bragging. Then speak to them for 5 mins every 3 weeks. Drop them a mail on what you are upto.professionally. it will invariably place some.moral obligation ton them to look out ofr you. Leverage that for iinternshipsetc. But be as genuine as you can be with this exercise.
6. Get the best grades you can. No n NLU students have to show that they are amongst the best in their Uni. This pressure is a lot less for NLU students.
7. Read outside law. Know your ccurrent affairs, sports
I’d be happy to offer some broad guidance based on my personal experiences and what worked for me, but some more information would be useful. Which year of law school are you in? What are your immediate goals? For instance, are you a 4th-5th year who is trying hard to land internships/PPO in the coming months, or a fresher who simply wants to know where to focus your efforts? Do you know which area of law you want to build your career in? (If not, perhaps try to answer that first.)
You’re super misinformed. It’s not primarily about pay because legal academia in India generally pays poorly. Even if it was, why should NLUs depend primarily on the fee pool but IITs and IIMs have govt funding? It’s very convenient (almost lazy) to blame this on the fee pool but there is no good reason for a university with a public character to run entirely on it.
I’ve actually spoken to several teachers about this and it’s the fact that teaching at an NLU shortchanges their career. Limited research/ exposure opportunities, inflexible teaching arrangements and so on. Several lawyers want to teach because it’s professionally fulfilling and adds to their profile. Plus recruiting has been on the backfoot. It’s always a huge mess and with very little transparency. Contrary to what LI thinks, there also exists lots of legal talent outside NLUs but the admin makes no effort to scout and identify it. doesn’t the regulation surrounding teaching keep changing? How many hoops should someone be expected to jump through?
Plus teachers are expected to put up with admin politics and it’s not always worth it.
Technically speaking, if the peers are the selling point of NLUs, then there is nothing I owe to the institution as an alumnus. Why should I go and teach there for peanuts? I certainly help the current students as an alumnus, which is what I received as a student.
And no, it is not about NLUs charging enormous fees - the fees are still exorbitant for the quality you get, just so that you do not forget. Even a lot of middle class people have to take loans for going to NLUs - this is no DU or GLC.
It is simple logic, no? If you create no incentive for NLU alumni to come back and teach, why will they? No one relies on the goodness of people's heart for the economy to go on. Here is a quote from a dude who knew his stuff:
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages." - Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations (Book 1, Chap. 2, pg. 16).
Hey, first of all, kudos to your disposition towards this very real problem. I belong to an average college, and in the words of a Rhodes scholar from an average university, it can be a "visceral experience".
That said, the prestige of tier-1 universities is a function of their alumni and the 50,000 odd students you best to get there. Studying at a university without an accomplished alumni base is inviting some significant character development.
Nothing, I repeat, nothing is closed off to you, except novelties like Trylegal's research fellowships (only NLS, NLU-D kids are eligible) or obnoxious job postings which mostly are just a resume collecting exercise. If you're willing to put in the hard work here are a few pointers that are definitely going to help you "make it", whatever your end goal is.
1. Prioritize achievements which enable exposure. But it doesn't end at just achieving, use that as a networking opportunity. For example: if you're writing for a prestigious essay competition and end up securing a position, write to the people who judged it (mostly law firm partners, think tank people). Chances are you'll be able to secure internships where the partners already are familiar with your name and work.
2. Keep your head down, and read. If you don't read outside the curriculum, be prepared for the shitstorm of information you're going to find yourself in after you graduate. Our law degrees, even from the best of colleges aren't enough to cut it.
3. Be aware [read: "beware"] of your college. As you read law at an average law school, be fully aware of the policies of various contingents so that you know what to avoid; your college certainly won't help you but don't let it hold you back.
4. OP advice: learn to email. That's it. If you're smart enough to know what this means, the average law school wouldn't pose much hindrance.
5. Finally, Ignore. Ignore people who intern with tier 1 firms in the second year, who get internships under coveted Supreme Court judges right after, and intend to make that everyone's problem on Linkedin. If you are one of them, congratulations. If you aren't, its best to not let them get to you, because chances are the family force is strong with them.
Believe in yourself and be kind to everyone. Surround yourself with well-intentioned and competent people. They are extremely rare to come by, but don't narrow your horizons by sticking to your law school.
Teachers will continue to be terrible so long as good people with NLU education do not come back to teach. No use crying about it. Every NLU student cries a river about faculty quality throughout their five years, but almost nobody comes back to their alma to teach because that will mean giving up the big bucks. At the same time, if NLU faculty are to be attracted by industry level pay scale and job benefits, then the NLUs will have to charge JGLS scale fees, which these students will again oppose. So nothing is going to change really, other than a few idealistic NLU grads (and other good students from various universities) who actually have other options, but still prefer to come back to teach at the public universities in the country.
Lmfao wtf kind of nlu did you go to? Having graduated from a “tier 1” nlu myself, I can confirm that none of those things is true. Certainly wasn’t in my college at least. Those who wanted to partake in the academic rigour certainly could. Others who were indifferent could coast with relative ease.
@OP - the answer to your question (in my humble opinion) is peer quality. One way or another, a bunch of bright and hardworking people do end up at the top tier NLUs every year, and closely interacting and competing with these people does have significant benefits. Not to say that other colleges don’t have bright students, but you’re more likely to encounter them at Unis which have a high barrier to entry as opposed to ones where anyone who can afford the fee gets in cough JGLScough
The teachers are mostly terrible (with some strong exceptions), the administration is lol. It’s just that for reputation reasons, NLUs attract a higher calibre of student, and then once you’re in, you have access to a high quality network of peers and seniors and you navigate stuff slightly better, are driven to compete, and hear of more opportunities. But please don’t be fooled. I go to a tier 1 NLU and idiots abound here as well.
They learn grund norms, the fundamentals, the very base. They learn rigour because of a punishing schedule. They do so much over a period of 5 years that office-grunt work seems like a breeze while others struggle as others feel their work load has increased in the office.
They learn to research. They are able to distinguish between authoritative sources along a graded spectrum. They know which source is to be given more weight - which helps them form an idea of stronger aspects of legal rationale or argument.
They know how to dig out through lots of text and find what's useful. This proves handy in legal practice.
They have good english comprehension - for most it's a privilege, but for some - it can be an acquired proficiency.
Hello, I want to know what is it that the Nlus do that make them distinguished (speaking purely in academic terms) Is it the curriculum, the professors? I want to know this as I am from an average college but am putting in the work and want to bridge the gap which exists and need guidance regarding the same.
1. Write 50 papers in your 5 years on each of the subjects you read that semester. With a deadline. Fully formatted and presentable. Come together with 5-7 like-minded friends and ha e its reviewed and graded by them. Will put you on par with an average NL schoolite who is forced to do this as part of their course. Good research skills are critical. Thats all that you will get to demonstrate at an average inter ship.
2. Try and participate in moots. Avg law schools also participate in most moots. Will hep you learn how to work in a team- with ones you get along and ones you dont. Tey making the team with 1 senior and 1 junior. Learn to take instructions and give instructions. Learn to come out with a work product by the end of the exercise. If you are the speaker- you will grow in confidence when you can express an idea in words. People who can articulate their thoughts, explain their 2 day research in 30 mins are appreciated. Will help you stand out in your internships, and increase chances of PPO- helps you beat the campus recruitment bias towards NLUs.
3. Try and get good inter ships. Dont shy to use your contacts if you have. Get a foot in the door any way you can. Slog your ass of in the PPO like your life depends on it. It will be rewarded.
4. NLU students have a sense of entitlement. If you are looking for a law firm job, for which I can speak about, they are looking for people who dont mind the sweat and are driven. Show them you are, if you are.
5. Use linkedin. Connect with partners from firms you want to work for. Drop them a message asking to speak for 5 mins for career guidance. 9/10 wont reply- its ok. The 1 who does- connect with them. Try to get yourself on their phone book and access to call them for guidance. The genuine one will guide. The others get an ego boost and they will also guide. Get them to be your unofficial.mentor. they will like bragging. Then speak to them for 5 mins every 3 weeks. Drop them a mail on what you are upto.professionally. it will invariably place some.moral obligation ton them to look out ofr you. Leverage that for iinternshipsetc. But be as genuine as you can be with this exercise.
6. Get the best grades you can. No n NLU students have to show that they are amongst the best in their Uni. This pressure is a lot less for NLU students.
7. Read outside law. Know your ccurrent affairs, sports
I’ve actually spoken to several teachers about this and it’s the fact that teaching at an NLU shortchanges their career. Limited research/ exposure opportunities, inflexible teaching arrangements and so on. Several lawyers want to teach because it’s professionally fulfilling and adds to their profile. Plus recruiting has been on the backfoot. It’s always a huge mess and with very little transparency. Contrary to what LI thinks, there also exists lots of legal talent outside NLUs but the admin makes no effort to scout and identify it. doesn’t the regulation surrounding teaching keep changing? How many hoops should someone be expected to jump through?
Plus teachers are expected to put up with admin politics and it’s not always worth it.
And no, it is not about NLUs charging enormous fees - the fees are still exorbitant for the quality you get, just so that you do not forget. Even a lot of middle class people have to take loans for going to NLUs - this is no DU or GLC.
It is simple logic, no? If you create no incentive for NLU alumni to come back and teach, why will they? No one relies on the goodness of people's heart for the economy to go on. Here is a quote from a dude who knew his stuff:
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages." - Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations (Book 1, Chap. 2, pg. 16).
That said, the prestige of tier-1 universities is a function of their alumni and the 50,000 odd students you best to get there. Studying at a university without an accomplished alumni base is inviting some significant character development.
Nothing, I repeat, nothing is closed off to you, except novelties like Trylegal's research fellowships (only NLS, NLU-D kids are eligible) or obnoxious job postings which mostly are just a resume collecting exercise. If you're willing to put in the hard work here are a few pointers that are definitely going to help you "make it", whatever your end goal is.
1. Prioritize achievements which enable exposure. But it doesn't end at just achieving, use that as a networking opportunity.
For example: if you're writing for a prestigious essay competition and end up securing a position, write to the people who judged it (mostly law firm partners, think tank people). Chances are you'll be able to secure internships where the partners already are familiar with your name and work.
2. Keep your head down, and read. If you don't read outside the curriculum, be prepared for the shitstorm of information you're going to find yourself in after you graduate. Our law degrees, even from the best of colleges aren't enough to cut it.
3. Be aware [read: "beware"] of your college. As you read law at an average law school, be fully aware of the policies of various contingents so that you know what to avoid; your college certainly won't help you but don't let it hold you back.
4. OP advice: learn to email. That's it. If you're smart enough to know what this means, the average law school wouldn't pose much hindrance.
5. Finally, Ignore. Ignore people who intern with tier 1 firms in the second year, who get internships under coveted Supreme Court judges right after, and intend to make that everyone's problem on Linkedin. If you are one of them, congratulations. If you aren't, its best to not let them get to you, because chances are the family force is strong with them.
Believe in yourself and be kind to everyone. Surround yourself with well-intentioned and competent people. They are extremely rare to come by, but don't narrow your horizons by sticking to your law school.
Best of luck!
Also R can I get your opinion on this please
@OP - the answer to your question (in my humble opinion) is peer quality. One way or another, a bunch of bright and hardworking people do end up at the top tier NLUs every year, and closely interacting and competing with these people does have significant benefits. Not to say that other colleges don’t have bright students, but you’re more likely to encounter them at Unis which have a high barrier to entry as opposed to ones where anyone who can afford the fee gets in cough JGLScough
They learn to research. They are able to distinguish between authoritative sources along a graded spectrum. They know which source is to be given more weight - which helps them form an idea of stronger aspects of legal rationale or argument.
They know how to dig out through lots of text and find what's useful. This proves handy in legal practice.
They have good english comprehension - for most it's a privilege, but for some - it can be an acquired proficiency.
Is it the curriculum, the professors?
I want to know this as I am from an average college but am putting in the work and want to bridge the gap which exists and need guidance regarding the same.