I am a fresher, currently on probation. Working from home is very stressful. My team isnt particularly nice to me and with the long working hours, I'm constantly on my toes. Its messing with my mental health because I worry about not getting confirmed post probation. Is it common for people to not get confirmed post probation? How easy is it for someone to get fired from a law firm?
Another A0 here. I’ve just joined the firm couple of months back, but I already feel like quitting. I’m not even worried if they’ll fire me after 6 months, I’ll probable quit before that.
Can’t believe I was excited to join this place as intern. All that excitement of wanting to learn more has disappeared. How do people stay motivated after working for such long hours?
I want to quit because everyone in my team loves to dump work on me. They cc me on every email, make me draft all of their emails, I've been added on every new transaction. I actually want to work but feel so overstretched because I have to juggle between so many people on my tail. I'm eyeing 6 months and then tata bye bye.
Here's the answer : we don't, we aren't motivated to work 16 hours and be forever available at the cost of mental and physical health. We just keep doing it and pushing it, and then a day comes, when we give no fucks (read: the body and mind cannot take it anymore) and then we leave. :)
This is exact opposite to my problem. As an intern I'm constantly terrified that I'm not getting enough work in wfh set up to prove my worth and bag an offer.
I hope your workload reduces and I hope I get more work. Take care OP!
Sometimes I can't help but wonder that law firms could be such decent places to work if they just limited their work timings to a strict 12 hours a day with adequate weekend switch off times. Their productivity actually would increase given associates will put in their effort knowing much is required from them in the day; instead of droning away for unending hours with sub-par attention levels and zero motivation.
But can't really blame law firm founders - if they were that smart enough they'd be running be bigger and larger companies instead of working for them. It's us who chose to work for these small-time businessmen.
Don't stress over it - nobody's firing you. As long as you're putting in the long hours and not making mistakes that's costing the firm huge money, they'll keep you because that's all that's expected of you as an A0.
Here are a few tips that might help since I was an A0 not many years (an SA now):
1. When you're working long hours, you have the absolute right to take sufficient breaks. Don't hesitate to go out for a walk/jog in the evening because you think you may get a call from your seniors - nobody's dying if you don't respond within 30 minutes but you will if you don't take of yourself.
2. If people haven't specifically told you there's work on weekend, it's yours. Don't waste it anticipating that there might be work.
3. Even if there's work on weekends, you're entitled to a few hours to yourself. You can assertively tell people that you have a lunch, you're going out and will come back and do whatever work is required. Most seniors give you work on weekends because they have nothing else to do. Your life does not need to sync theirs.
4. When you're going out, stop carrying your laptop around. If you're on leave or a weekend, it's completely okay to be away from your system or not have access to internet.
5. Learn to enjoy the little breaks you get between work - if you're waiting for someone to call back or email you the document back with comments and edits, then watch a YouTube video, go make some tea/coffee (buy some fancy tea/coffee brands if they make you feel good), call up your friend or do some exercise.
6. While people at law firms appear serious and cranky (I imagine I do too to my juniors), remember most of them are also people like you. They have similar stories, problems, anxieties and aspirations like you. They also want to go out without the anxiety that partner might call any moment. So, try talking frankly with them as a friend who's in the same boat as you. Something like, "Hey, if you have some plans on Saturday, let me know and I'll take over the work. I'll need a few hours off on a Sunday." If a junior told me that, I'll do whatever I have to ensure his/her Sunday is free. Truly having each others back makes life ten times easier for everyone.
So, yes. Just hang in there a little more. I won't tell you it gets better - but I can tell you it gets much more bearable with time as you learn the tips and tricks. And none of us really want to do this forever. We all have our exits and entrances - just play your part for the time that you are here and enjoy the show.
Point no. 2 yes! Is this how it’s supposed to be everywhere? I am always worrying that there ‘might’ be work on Sunday and I might miss a call from the senior and it’ll blow up.
Unfortunately, this is not the case with everyone and not every senior is like this. I was working as an A0 up until a day back and I was fired based on just two of my assignments amongst others that I have done. Despite putting long and working on weekends, I was told how I didn’t showcase effort or contributed enough. In the last couple months, my seniors who were just one or two senior to me treated me the way they wanted, one of whom dumped as much work on me as she wanted without the partner ever recognise that was actually done by me.
I recall having left for home for one on Rakhi and got a call from her while we were celebrating to review a set of documents that were uploaded on the datasite. On asking if I could take it up tomorrow, she sternly denied that told me manage it my own and just get to her before lunch the next day. She ended up pulling me out of several transactions by putting her backlog on me when a new thing came in and my work would often not get communicated to the partner.
It is supremely unlikely that an A0 will get fired. You need to mess up really, really, really bad before someone even considers firing you. If you do not have a lot of work, or made a lot of mistakes, they might extend your probation, but they will rarely fire someone for either reason, especially an A0. Some smaller firms might let you go for budgetary reasons, but it's rare at the big ones (other than some teams, according to rumors).
As for 1.1, I really think joining a new firm and working from home is much worse than working from the office (not saying that offices should re-open). Weekends and late-hours were a bit rarer. This is mostly because even cranky partners would usually just ask you to do something the next day. These days everything is EOD or first thing in the morning. People just assume that because you are at home, you have more time (you actually have less time at home, my utilization is consistently at least 10-20% higher than WFO). People were also a lot nicer in person, because it's difficult to yell at someone or wake someone up at 3AM if you need to see them in the morning.
A piece of advise would be to stand your ground. Don't give short timelines when asked (if you need 8 hours, say 12), notify your seniors if deadlines are not manageable, speak to seniors about stuff other than work (so they remember you as more than a glorified intern). It's okay to say no to more work if you already have 12-15 hours of work a day. These things won't lead to you being fired. If some partner throws a fit and complains about 'bandwidth issues', leave in a year or two and go to a better place. I did that and I'm a lot happier.
Remember that despite what you read from the trolls here, there are a LOT of vacancies at all firms constantly. There are teams and firms that have not been able to fill those vacancies despite the trolls insisting that there are 'hundreds of applicants'. I've received multiple pitches for one of these 'bigger platforms' despite switching only a few months ago. You are not as replaceable as they want you to think (especially once you get through the first year or two).
It's as easy as, 1,2,3. Hardly ever would a law firm expend time to train an A0 and then not confirm them. Non-confirmation is only possible if you are utterly and hopelessly incompetent, which I am sure is not the case (if you are thinking that is the case then relax, it's the impostor syndrome kicking in). I know somebody who wasn't confirmed after six months because the seniors he used to work with gave very bad feedback about her. However, she still kept the job and got the confirmation in her eighth month. So it doesn't matter. Cool. Your heels when you can.
Had gone through this already. Have put in papers. Gonna have to serve like a month before i call it a day. Terrible work atmosphere. They have owned me up for whole time. We're just slaves for them. They think they've hired a partner in a name of associate who is supposed to generate as much of deliverables as him. I am happy i got rid of this glorified rat race early. I've realised the longer you stay, the more vicious is keeps getting. Stakes increases, bait become larger and you appetite to leave increases further but you sense of the guts of leaving at that times shrinks. It might destroy you mentally. If you're not happy better leave sooner thank ever.. Don't think you'll not get employment, nobody slept hungry last night.
Keep up with your whining and demands and soon enough you will get fired. Welcome to the real world. The real world is NOT a bed of roses or a pile of puppies and kittens.
I switched jobs thinking I will get to learn more but it has been nothing short of a nightmare. The partner that I work for is lazy and incompetent. He has made some very crass personal remarks and refuses assign any work. The other team members are even worse. Most “seniors” are insecure and that’s why they don’t train any juniors. Don’t know what to do.
This happens in every sector of legal industry.The issue is because the senior has been part of the law firm for longer than you, nobody in the system is ready to buy the theory that seniors have become too relaxed, lazy and incompetent to catch up on law reading or to continue researching.Contrary to junior's being trained by seniors, I gave actually seen not just juniors/freshers but even interns who gave to literally spoon feed legal research and status to seniors.Its appalling.Law firms with such issue then have an extremely toxic work environment so that seniors can ensure that this reality not come out while juniors gets extremely angry about being shortchanged in everything from credit of success on matter to spotlight with clients or senior bosses and then gave to bear see their lazy seniors devour the success who will not give ounce of credit to the juniors.Then comes the rebellion and entire ground level teams walk off.To save face in front of clients,the law firm will hire a bunch of juniors thinking the "talwnted" senior partner will repeat the success,hmwhich doesn't happen.Then the senior leaves when their "talent" ,or lack of, stands exposed.The MP brings a new partner.Then new partner sees the MP as lazy, incompetent,......
Very easy- whine and moan all the time... show them that you just dont want to do your bit but want everything from them......you'll be fired in a second.
Can I after 1 month of my probation period leave the firm without doing the procedure of notice and all?? Can my firm also remove me before 6 month without the notice period and all?
Hope you've found a job for yourself mate. I've been fired from a firm today citing underperformance reasons. I have no clarity as to what to do now and I am losing my patience.
Sorry to hear that. Getting fired is obviously incredibly stressful, but it can sometimes also be a blessing in that you have finally have time to think and consider new opportunities...
Am so sorry to hear this. This is what most firms do when they most likely want to fire someone. I can only say contact legal recruiters now. They might be of help.
Not really. You need to ++++ it up BIG TIME to get fired at this level. It's just too early to fire you. Can your life be made more miserable if you don't perform? Absolutely.
I never worked directly with the Partner. I was reporting to two Senior Associates, and on some occasions I was getting work from Associates more experienced than me. Initially I thought it was okay for me to work in order to grow, but turned out everybody cared for their work more than anything (which made sense in retrospect). As a result thereof, I ended up having too much work on my plate and didn't know how to manage or say no after a point. (It was getting tough for me to go to courts everyday and coming back to office for drafting the documents, which ideally would have taken me a lot more time than what was provided). I put off an assignment for a later date (As the deadline wasn't close enough), only to realize it at the last moment that we have received incorrect documents from our client. This triggered the relevant senior associate and the principal associate in the vertical. On top of that, my existing projects also suffered because of the aforementioned slack in my work, thereby delaying everything in the pipeline and eventually triggering the other relevant Senior Associate.
Furthermore, on the day prior to the day I was asked to leave, I got a little late (30 mins) and my partner got triggered. Before I could reach the office, the partner took my review from every other person in the firm. The next day, I was asked to leave.
I really do not know if it was underperformance on my end. But it seems like I have lost all my hope and a lot of self-doubt is coming my way. I am unable to perform in the interviews and am getting rejected on technical grounds. I don't see anything holding on to the future.
I am very sorry to hear about what has happened to you. While there could have been some diligence exercised on your part (in the incident described in the first paragraph), it is not a major fault at all. A firm which wants people to leave for such incidents is not a place worth working at. Despite the deadline not being close enough, it is upto the seniors to review the work you have done, and point out shortcomings, if any, politely, and tell you how to go about things in the correct manner. Quite clearly, the SA and PA have failed in their duty here.
Coming to the Second Paragraph, assuming you were on time everyday and were decent at your work, and you were late on only this one occasion (assuming there was no urgent deadline / meeting on the day you were late), again, the way the partner went about the entire thing seems very unreasonable and unprofessional. The partner asking you to leave merely on the basis of others' review is pathetic on his/her part - looks like he/she forgot the very basic legal principle of "Audi Alteram Partem" - Hear the Other Side (assuming he/she did not hear you out and asked you for your side of the story).
This doesn't sound like underperformance to me, as I have heard several stories like these. It looks like the firm was hell bent on cost cutting, and they need to blame someone for the same and send them out. No firm is ever going to reveal that they have a cost crunch issue or not enough work. For now, I can only say that be patient, be thorough with the work you have done, only put out on your CV the work that you are confident talking about, and keep applying continuously to other places. Get in touch with legal recruiters as well. Something will definitely work out, even if it takes time.
Hey, thankyou so much for your kind words. I have landed a better offer with a much better firm. Your suggestion of contacting the recruiters really worked. Even though I've joined and am liking the work, I still get flashbacks of me getting fired 😂😂
Hi, I'm a fresher and I want to know how do you contact a legal recruiter, is this cold messaging or emailing the recruiter of any firm/company or you see an opening for a job, apply there and then contact the legal recruiter?
Generally, legal recruiters work with lateral hires, not freshers. A lot of firms do fresher hiring through campus recruitments. I graduated during the pandemic and had to wait a long time since hiring had been done through campus recruitment and was stuck, but once I worked for a couple years at a firm, legal recruiters were willing to work with me.
TL;DR: most LRs will say no to freshers. Better to work somewhere for a couple years and then ask them for help if you want to change.
Can’t believe I was excited to join this place as intern. All that excitement of wanting to learn more has disappeared. How do people stay motivated after working for such long hours?
I hope your workload reduces and I hope I get more work. Take care OP!
Oddly comforting to know that I ain’t alone…
But can't really blame law firm founders - if they were that smart enough they'd be running be bigger and larger companies instead of working for them. It's us who chose to work for these small-time businessmen.
Here are a few tips that might help since I was an A0 not many years (an SA now):
1. When you're working long hours, you have the absolute right to take sufficient breaks. Don't hesitate to go out for a walk/jog in the evening because you think you may get a call from your seniors - nobody's dying if you don't respond within 30 minutes but you will if you don't take of yourself.
2. If people haven't specifically told you there's work on weekend, it's yours. Don't waste it anticipating that there might be work.
3. Even if there's work on weekends, you're entitled to a few hours to yourself. You can assertively tell people that you have a lunch, you're going out and will come back and do whatever work is required. Most seniors give you work on weekends because they have nothing else to do. Your life does not need to sync theirs.
4. When you're going out, stop carrying your laptop around. If you're on leave or a weekend, it's completely okay to be away from your system or not have access to internet.
5. Learn to enjoy the little breaks you get between work - if you're waiting for someone to call back or email you the document back with comments and edits, then watch a YouTube video, go make some tea/coffee (buy some fancy tea/coffee brands if they make you feel good), call up your friend or do some exercise.
6. While people at law firms appear serious and cranky (I imagine I do too to my juniors), remember most of them are also people like you. They have similar stories, problems, anxieties and aspirations like you. They also want to go out without the anxiety that partner might call any moment. So, try talking frankly with them as a friend who's in the same boat as you. Something like, "Hey, if you have some plans on Saturday, let me know and I'll take over the work. I'll need a few hours off on a Sunday." If a junior told me that, I'll do whatever I have to ensure his/her Sunday is free. Truly having each others back makes life ten times easier for everyone.
So, yes. Just hang in there a little more. I won't tell you it gets better - but I can tell you it gets much more bearable with time as you learn the tips and tricks. And none of us really want to do this forever. We all have our exits and entrances - just play your part for the time that you are here and enjoy the show.
I recall having left for home for one on Rakhi and got a call from her while we were celebrating to review a set of documents that were uploaded on the datasite. On asking if I could take it up tomorrow, she sternly denied that told me manage it my own and just get to her before lunch the next day. She ended up pulling me out of several transactions by putting her backlog on me when a new thing came in and my work would often not get communicated to the partner.
As for 1.1, I really think joining a new firm and working from home is much worse than working from the office (not saying that offices should re-open). Weekends and late-hours were a bit rarer. This is mostly because even cranky partners would usually just ask you to do something the next day. These days everything is EOD or first thing in the morning. People just assume that because you are at home, you have more time (you actually have less time at home, my utilization is consistently at least 10-20% higher than WFO). People were also a lot nicer in person, because it's difficult to yell at someone or wake someone up at 3AM if you need to see them in the morning.
A piece of advise would be to stand your ground. Don't give short timelines when asked (if you need 8 hours, say 12), notify your seniors if deadlines are not manageable, speak to seniors about stuff other than work (so they remember you as more than a glorified intern). It's okay to say no to more work if you already have 12-15 hours of work a day. These things won't lead to you being fired. If some partner throws a fit and complains about 'bandwidth issues', leave in a year or two and go to a better place. I did that and I'm a lot happier.
Remember that despite what you read from the trolls here, there are a LOT of vacancies at all firms constantly. There are teams and firms that have not been able to fill those vacancies despite the trolls insisting that there are 'hundreds of applicants'. I've received multiple pitches for one of these 'bigger platforms' despite switching only a few months ago. You are not as replaceable as they want you to think (especially once you get through the first year or two).
Kudos.
Have put in papers.
Gonna have to serve like a month before i call it a day.
Terrible work atmosphere. They have owned me up for whole time. We're just slaves for them. They think they've hired a partner in a name of associate who is supposed to generate as much of deliverables as him.
I am happy i got rid of this glorified rat race early.
I've realised the longer you stay, the more vicious is keeps getting.
Stakes increases, bait become larger and you appetite to leave increases further but you sense of the guts of leaving at that times shrinks.
It might destroy you mentally.
If you're not happy better leave sooner thank ever..
Don't think you'll not get employment, nobody slept hungry last night.
Welcome to the real world. The real world is NOT a bed of roses or a pile of puppies and kittens.
Can I after 1 month of my probation period leave the firm without doing the procedure of notice and all?? Can my firm also remove me before 6 month without the notice period and all?
Furthermore, on the day prior to the day I was asked to leave, I got a little late (30 mins) and my partner got triggered. Before I could reach the office, the partner took my review from every other person in the firm. The next day, I was asked to leave.
I really do not know if it was underperformance on my end. But it seems like I have lost all my hope and a lot of self-doubt is coming my way. I am unable to perform in the interviews and am getting rejected on technical grounds. I don't see anything holding on to the future.
Coming to the Second Paragraph, assuming you were on time everyday and were decent at your work, and you were late on only this one occasion (assuming there was no urgent deadline / meeting on the day you were late), again, the way the partner went about the entire thing seems very unreasonable and unprofessional. The partner asking you to leave merely on the basis of others' review is pathetic on his/her part - looks like he/she forgot the very basic legal principle of "Audi Alteram Partem" - Hear the Other Side (assuming he/she did not hear you out and asked you for your side of the story).
This doesn't sound like underperformance to me, as I have heard several stories like these. It looks like the firm was hell bent on cost cutting, and they need to blame someone for the same and send them out. No firm is ever going to reveal that they have a cost crunch issue or not enough work. For now, I can only say that be patient, be thorough with the work you have done, only put out on your CV the work that you are confident talking about, and keep applying continuously to other places. Get in touch with legal recruiters as well. Something will definitely work out, even if it takes time.
TL;DR: most LRs will say no to freshers. Better to work somewhere for a couple years and then ask them for help if you want to change.