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I guess never, because in real world it does not matters, nothing is served in a platter for anyone, even if an unreserved candidate secures an NLU seat it is because of their caliber.
Try to grow out of your little reservation shell and see the larger picture
Sadly, reservations will not go away in India. However, we can derive some satisfaction from the predicted overruling of affirmative action by the US Supreme Court next year. 👍
Every institution should take accountability for transgressions against minorities. What world are we living in? The West is actively denouncing past/active prejudice, while here in India, we are insulated. The regression is stark!
Rich and poor, in a lot of circumstances are the 'effects' of other 'causes'. Treating symptoms is important, but at some point you have to treat the disease.
Do you think once a person from marginalised community becomes moderately rich he doesn't face discrimination?
And how much annually does he need to earn to escape his caste identity?
Chairs and Houses are cleaned with gangajal if previous occupant was from lower caste and this is happening at the top most level of govt. Structure.
No poor SC/ST ever says that people who are rich are hogging seats meant for them, because they know reservation is for representation and it's not a poverty alleviation scheme.
Get out of your echo-chamberm
The idea is to not let rich reserved category people use the mechanism. They can take admission through the general category.
Even on financial grounds, the real "deprived" people will be benefited.
From my analysis of the comments on LI, Indian legal education is not accessible for a major chunk people who are either deprived of privilege that comes with class or privilege that comes with caste. It makes me feel sorry for people who are underprivileged in both of these aspects and I am worried about them. And who’s getting all the access then?
I had got into the college through the general category (had filled in the CLAT form as general, not OBC) but because RMLNLU had state OBC reservation, and my last name being very popular in Uttar Pradesh a lot of people simply assumed I had got in through the OBC category. This is despite the fact that on basis of CLAT rank, I was at rank 11 in a batch of 160 so barring 10 individuals everyone else had a lower rank.
The discrimination I faced was never direct and always very subtle. For example, if we were discussing career prospects, I was always told to aim for the judiciary ("tera to ho hi jayega" you will get in). It was never spelt out why I would get in but it was because the lower judiciary has a caste-based reservation.
The intensity was of a lesser degree for me because of a couple of reasons. First is the ability to communicate in English and give as good as I got. The second was the fact that I belonged to a middle-class family, and considering how diverse the crowd is at RMLNLU, even that was a position of privilege over there. The third was the fact that I am a native of Haryana with an above-average height and bulky build, and the popular perception was not to mess with hot-tempered Haryanavis. I would be candid here, I never did anything to get rid of that perception, may have in fact emboldened it on few occasions.
Of course, it was a lot worse for others, few SC/ST in our batch, the ones who couldn't have afforded RML without a scholarship, despite it being the cheapest NLU amongst all NLUs. They were always together in a group, aloof from the rest of the student body at large. The lack of confidence was such that they never really even tried to gel in on their own.
Of course, that being said, RMLNLU is not alone in this, I know of similar instances taking place at NLUJ and NLIU through people I trust. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an issue at almost all of the NLUs. The only good thing about this is that while not always, but in many cases, reservations does work out. I know of many from RMLNLU who without the support of affirmative action would not have been there where they are and it would be incorrect to say that they reached there only due to reservation. Most of them had to work twice if not three to four times harder than someone like me who already had an exponential advantage just by being brought up in a metro city.
Of course, all this is not to say that I am better than the rest. I have taken part in banters with close friends on multiple occasions against upper castes mainly Brahmins and Baniyas (most of my friends somehow belong to either of the two for some strange reason). My only saving grace is, as far as I know, no one can make an accusation that I have ever discriminated or even slighted someone due to their caste. Caste is a complex issue and I can only speak from my own experiences and cannot, unfortunately, offer much nuance as you can see it never really impacted me in a material way.
So a lot of people don't even appear of it, they join a central or state university.
Most of the poor SC/ST folks can't afford expensive coachings, CBSE schools in small towns are English medium in name only and State board's curriculum doesn't prepare someone for entrance exams at all.
I can't speak for tier 1 nlus but in tier 2 and tier 3 nlus a lot of folks are first generation college attenders.
1) There is a lot of groupism among the people who came in via reservation. The other groups within UCs were mainly based geography (people from Maharashtra would hang out only with fellow Maharashtrians etc.) I think people from my community just have a better sense of unity and helping each other out because we’ve been through it together.
2) I never faced direct discrimination. I mean people didn’t even know what was our caste but all of this till we got our results for the first sem. Low scorers are usually perceived to be lower caste students and tbh that’s true mostly but the stereotyping is active discrimination. It seems like they are smirking on us for not being “meritorious” enough or laughing on our struggles.
3) We know how to give it back. Most of our parents are in police or central government positions or civil services and so we’re used to giving it back to anyone who is casteist. We don’t go for SC/ST act on every minor instance we instead are united enough to teach lessons in better ways.
4) Discrimination usually comes from close UC friends who become comfortable enough and think it’s okay to make “dark jokes”
5) We struggle with academics and placements which is the most active form of oppression. You can’t just give us a seat in a good university and then it’s adieu. Dude we need to get good grades, the bar should be lower for us. And why is there not a look at overall profile rather than grades. You’d barely find anyone in private jobs which is the most active form of discrimination
If you actually want to help a community and undo thousands of years of oppression, facilitate reservations at every stage of life including private jobs and promotions. We will get it someday soon inshallah. Jai bhim 🔵
If you don't mind me asking, and are comfortable with it, which Tier-1 law school professor was this who asked everyone's rank?
Now, of course, it would be extremely challenging for a poor Dalit to achieve linguistic/contact/capital parity with any of his dwij-savarna counterparts over the course of 5 years, that has to be acknowledged, but such a step would actively work against Dalits in education and society at large. There are no easy solutions, but sensitisation at law schools is something which we sorely need.
1st was a tier 2 NLU, where a few of my classmates did make fun of students who came who were admitted via the SC/ST quota by using the argument of merit, Fortunately they were very few in number and their merit argument was debunked by some of my good UC friends.
The teachers fortunately did not make us feel different and out of place at all. Infact our Sociology and History professors went out of their way to educate the entire class about caste based discrimination it's History and the need for Reservations.
My Committee members were very helpful and never asked us for our Caste and treated everyone equally, This might be because out Committee chairperson (Professor) was a SC as well.
In the second Law school, Which was a Tier-1 NLU, which I joined after preparing for CLAT alongside my 1st Year, The experience was vastly different:
A few teachers asked us to introduce ourselves to the class by telling our CLAT AIR rank, and by attacking the concept of reservation.
Among my batchmates, the topic of reservation hasn't been picked up yet, so I don't know their stance and opinions other factor can be the virtual law school.
I did feel a bit left out, but that was more to do with the economic status and Connections. (Which can easily be linked to the UC privilege)
The actual reality as to how we SC/STs will be treated will come forward once we come back to the campus.
Overall my experience in my first Law school (Tier-2 NLU) was wayyy better than my time at the Tier-1 NLU.
Like any differences manifesting in socialization/treatment by students, faculty and admin/committees/feeling 'out of place'/any other banner?
P S.
This is not a thread supporting or attacking reservation, it's merely about the experience of SC/ST students from their own perspective.
Please reply, especially if you got in through caste-based quotas.