As a headhunter going through many profiles, I thought I'd share this advice since various people are posting information (in some cases disinformation) on LLMs abroad. The advice is for those returning to India only.
- In some countries a foreign LLMs are highly valued. Germany is an example that comes to mind. India is not such a country.
- In India, what matters most is where you did your BALLB from, plus your work ex. Unfortunately, we have an NLU/non-NLU caste system. This is furthered by lazy HR managers who find it easy to sort CVs on this basis. Plus. HR people generally like imposing hierarchies and making some people feel inferior. After a while, only your work ex matters, not your college.
- An LLM is seen more of an incremental addition, e.g. if you pursued a specialist course or made global connections that may be helpful down the line. Or perhaps a useful asset to show off in meetings with foreign clients. e.g. "Meet my associate Amit, who studied in London" may sound more impressive than "Meet my associate Amit, who studied in Bhopal".
- Keep in mind that 95% of partners do not have foreign LLMs. The 5% that do will probably look upon it favourably. The ones that don't will probably ignore it at best or make judgements at worst (e.g. rich kid went to NY/London/Singapore to party). Reasons like "I went to XYZ university abroad to deepen my knowledge and attend lectures by good faculty" is not good enough for the second type of partner. You may well be speaking to a GLC/DU alum who never attended a single lecture in his life and instead was a "lifelong intern". He/she fails to understand the value of an intellectually stimulating lecture, or writing a research essay supervised by a top academic, when one can learn by interning under a lawyer. He/she may even ask you: "Why do an LLM if you don't want to join academics?"
- The QS Law Ranking is a reliable indicator for selecting colleges, but certain ranks are questionable. It's best to stick with "safe" brand names if one is returning to India. These would be:
UK:Oxbridge/LSE/KCL/UCL/QM/Edinburgh/Warwick etc.
US: Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Columbia/Berkeley/Cornell/Chicago/Duke/Georgetown/Northwestern/GW etc.
Apart from the US and UK, the colleges below are very good, but not so familiar among partners and HR managers in India. Or rather, known only among a small circle.
Australia: Melbourne/Sydney/UNSW/Queensland/ANU
Singapore: NUS
Germany: RKU aka Heidelberg/HU aka Berlin/LMU aka Munich/GU aka Frankfurt/Hamburg Uni/Bucerius Law School
Sweden: Stockholm/Lund/Uppsala
France: Sciences Po
Switzerland: Graduate Institute Geneva
Netherlands: Leiden, Amsterdam
Bottomline: If you choose to do an LLM abroad, be confident about your choice and do what you want to do in life. If you are sensitive and hurt by judgmental comments from HR managers and partners, you will not succeed in any profession. Give your 100% whichever university you go to and be proud of that university and your degree. Also, there is nothing wrong in having a good time in NY or London or Berlin. Go to bars, concerts, etc. You won't get the opportunity ever again.
I have often asked this but have never received a response one way or the other: Are 'India Qualified' lawyers treated similarly to their 'Home' counterparts when it comes to allocation of work or promotion at the MCs? I have scarcely seen any 'India Qualified' lawyers joining via the TC route being part of such teams as Competition or Employment and Benefits, for instance, presumably because these are less 'international' practice areas. Commercial Arbitration and M&A on the other hand, seem to be teams with very many 'India Qualified' joinees, presumably because they take on a lot of the India related work. (This observation excludes the time spent by trainees in a team before qualification, since they have not yet 'graduated' to become Associates.)
It is unfair to say that NLU preference is a caste system. I can't speak for all NLUs, but the top 3 NIRF ranked NLUs (NLSIU, NLUD and NALSAR) have built an excellent reputation through years of hard work by the students and alumni. Rhodes scholarships, wins in top international moots, Magic Circle offers, partnerships in law firms abroad, what not. The faculty at these colleges is also much better than elsewhere. It is absolutely justified to give preference at least to the graduates of NLSIU/NLUD/NALSAR than others.
Foreign LLM's are not just useful in Germany. Also useful in PRC China, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, France and many other places around the world - students from these countries go to west/us to get a Masters degree.
Why not that much India?
India is still not integrated to the world. It's a poor country with little international transactions (compared to others) Except a few top big & Botique ones. No one else even deals with foreign clients.
In China, many big Firms proudly write (LLM - NYU or Harvard) on thier despite the fact that they only Chinese law aspects in China. It's because foreign clients prefer having someone with a US/Europe experience (work or LLM) Practically it's useless (let's say if you are doing only Chinese regulatory work) but looks attractive for Foreign clients.
Maybe this demand for Indians with Foreign LLM's will increase over the years when India itself becomes bigger.
I think an LLM from NLSIU is a good option for those unable to go abroad. While the quality of an NLSIU LLM may not be as high as a top 20 QS law school, but because of the NLSIU brand prestige the industry will probably consider it equal to maybe Edinburgh or Warwick. Remember all that it is very hard to get in nowadays, as LLM CLAT is also competitive. So I will say consider NLSIU if you do not get into Oxbridge or the London colleges.
As a Law School BALLB, I can assure you the NLSIU LLM has no value. It is not taken seriously by the faculty or student body. Further, the industry deems it a joke degree. Sudhir is trying to reform it, and improve it. But that remains an experiment. You are obviously better off doing a Warwick LLM than a Nagarbhavi LLM.
Very frankly speaking, and I say this so that the freshers/future law students reading this can make life choices accordingly. I am from NLS and have great friends in NALSAR and NUJS. I can tell you from practical experience that a lot of non- NLU grads come to NLS thinking they will do an LLM and become at par with NLS grads. That is JUST not the case. Only BA LLB from NLS will give you that 'Harvard of the East' privilege i.e. if you are looking for one.
The faculty, the RCC, the day zero firms etc they do not take LLMs seriously from an industry perspective. If you wanna go into academics it is good. I can confirm that it is the same story in NALSAR and NUJS.
I am sorry but the law firms, HRs and MNCs, they all think like this. Hard work can always pay off and people from Allahabad University are also partners in law firms. But that is because of HARDWORK. A LLM tag from NLS will not get you that. But yeah a Harvard/Standford LLM is respected in law firms. It will not make you a partner straight up. But yes you will be respected for that. A few interns will be your fanboys/fangirls :P
#5: Good comment and agree fully. Also, remember that Indian law firms are basically glorified lala shops. If and when foreign law firms comes in you will see foreign LLMs being appreciated more.
Kian, why don't you interview some people with foreign LLMs and ask them about their experience? Below are examples of people who went to different countries for LLMs, beyond the hackneyed US/UK crowd.
Sorry , but I disagree. An NLSIU LLM is at least as prestigious as an LLM from a foreign university in the QS top 50 to top 100 bracket if you are coming back to India. Nobody in India has heard of the German and French universities mentioned, and I don't think the standard of legal education on Germany and France will be that high. Most people go to Germany to study engineering and France to study fashion designing. It is better to do an LLM from NLSIU at a much lower cost and hold your head high.
If you haven't heard of Sciences Po or Hamburg or Frei University, you should google more than "Eiffel Tower Photo Romantic" when it comes to France, and "Football team" for Germany.
- In some countries a foreign LLMs are highly valued. Germany is an example that comes to mind. India is not such a country.
- In India, what matters most is where you did your BALLB from, plus your work ex. Unfortunately, we have an NLU/non-NLU caste system. This is furthered by lazy HR managers who find it easy to sort CVs on this basis. Plus. HR people generally like imposing hierarchies and making some people feel inferior. After a while, only your work ex matters, not your college.
- An LLM is seen more of an incremental addition, e.g. if you pursued a specialist course or made global connections that may be helpful down the line. Or perhaps a useful asset to show off in meetings with foreign clients. e.g. "Meet my associate Amit, who studied in London" may sound more impressive than "Meet my associate Amit, who studied in Bhopal".
- Keep in mind that 95% of partners do not have foreign LLMs. The 5% that do will probably look upon it favourably. The ones that don't will probably ignore it at best or make judgements at worst (e.g. rich kid went to NY/London/Singapore to party). Reasons like "I went to XYZ university abroad to deepen my knowledge and attend lectures by good faculty" is not good enough for the second type of partner. You may well be speaking to a GLC/DU alum who never attended a single lecture in his life and instead was a "lifelong intern". He/she fails to understand the value of an intellectually stimulating lecture, or writing a research essay supervised by a top academic, when one can learn by interning under a lawyer. He/she may even ask you: "Why do an LLM if you don't want to join academics?"
- The QS Law Ranking is a reliable indicator for selecting colleges, but certain ranks are questionable. It's best to stick with "safe" brand names if one is returning to India. These would be:
UK:Oxbridge/LSE/KCL/UCL/QM/Edinburgh/Warwick etc.
US: Harvard/Stanford/Yale/Columbia/Berkeley/Cornell/Chicago/Duke/Georgetown/Northwestern/GW etc.
Apart from the US and UK, the colleges below are very good, but not so familiar among partners and HR managers in India. Or rather, known only among a small circle.
Australia: Melbourne/Sydney/UNSW/Queensland/ANU
Singapore: NUS
Germany: RKU aka Heidelberg/HU aka Berlin/LMU aka Munich/GU aka Frankfurt/Hamburg Uni/Bucerius Law School
Sweden: Stockholm/Lund/Uppsala
France: Sciences Po
Switzerland: Graduate Institute Geneva
Netherlands: Leiden, Amsterdam
Bottomline: If you choose to do an LLM abroad, be confident about your choice and do what you want to do in life. If you are sensitive and hurt by judgmental comments from HR managers and partners, you will not succeed in any profession. Give your 100% whichever university you go to and be proud of that university and your degree. Also, there is nothing wrong in having a good time in NY or London or Berlin. Go to bars, concerts, etc. You won't get the opportunity ever again.
Would appreciate some views on this!
Foreign LLM's are not just useful in Germany. Also useful in PRC China, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, France and many other places around the world - students from these countries go to west/us to get a Masters degree.
Why not that much India?
India is still not integrated to the world. It's a poor country with little international transactions (compared to others) Except a few top big & Botique ones. No one else even deals with foreign clients.
In China, many big Firms proudly write (LLM - NYU or Harvard) on thier despite the fact that they only Chinese law aspects in China. It's because foreign clients prefer having someone with a US/Europe experience (work or LLM)
Practically it's useless (let's say if you are doing only Chinese regulatory work) but looks attractive for Foreign clients.
Maybe this demand for Indians with Foreign LLM's will increase over the years when India itself becomes bigger.
The faculty, the RCC, the day zero firms etc they do not take LLMs seriously from an industry perspective. If you wanna go into academics it is good. I can confirm that it is the same story in NALSAR and NUJS.
I am sorry but the law firms, HRs and MNCs, they all think like this. Hard work can always pay off and people from Allahabad University are also partners in law firms. But that is because of HARDWORK. A LLM tag from NLS will not get you that. But yeah a Harvard/Standford LLM is respected in law firms. It will not make you a partner straight up. But yes you will be respected for that. A few interns will be your fanboys/fangirls :P
Singapore: https://www.khaitanco.com/people/abhimanyu-bhattacharya
Germany: https://www.nls.ac.in/faculty/ajar-rab/
you have no knowledge about the stuff being talked about here.