Due to WFH stress, a lot of lawyers are starting to look at in-house positions. I have seen recently promoted SAs and PAs in the market now more than ever. Having made that journey, I just wanted to add my two cents because I have seen things go horribly wrong for some lawyers and their careers take a nose-dive.
1. Do your DD - You have done enough DDs for your deals. Please use this skill to do some in-depth DD on the company / fund that you are looking to join. A few suggestions would be:
- talk to the people who previously held the designation you are being offered. Ping people on LinkedIn. As a community, I have seen people generally respond to such queries.
- talk to former employees and ask them why they left.
- If you are joining a company ask about the revenue that it generates (not revenue run rate, but revenue). If you are a SA / PA and the company does not generate 150 Cr., don't join. They will not be able to afford your salary. Lawyers don't generate revenue for the business, therefore, there may not be enough growth. Ask about EBITDA margins to ensure that the company is profitable.
- If you are joining a fund, ask about the total money that the fund has deployed and the deployment strategy. Don't join a fund that has invested in less than 100 Cr. If the fund has pooled resources, it may still be able to deploy capital. If the fund does not have pooled resources, it is the biggest red flag.
- Beware of LinkedIn cold drops. Prefer to go through established recruiters (we all know who they are :p )
2. Beware of a compliance job - A lot of recruiters look at lawyers as compliance professionals. Ask about how the compliances take place. You don't want to end up doing the job of a CS.
3. Salaries -
- Don't take a cut in salary or join at the same salary - Please ask for atleast a 30% hike, especially for lawyers from T1. You are leaving an established career in a law firm and taking a risk at a crucial juncture in your career. Negotiate hard! If someone is unwilling to give in, note that your increment cycles will not go very well.
- Ask about how bonuses are decided. If there are any other component to the salaries, ask about how these are distributed.
4. Personal Opinion - The market is going to really open up in the next 2 years. A lot of new startups will need lawyers. Please wait it out if possible. You'll have a lot more options the moment things open up.
5. CANNOT OVER EMPHASIZE ON POINT 1 - DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE
- Talk to people. Talk to everyone and anyone that has worked / is working in the corporate you're looking to join.
1. Look at high growth companies that are well funded. 2. Choose product company over services businesses. Services business tend to have a bureaucratic setup that is top heavy. 3. If you are joining startups, look at the funding. Don't fall for the "we don't need funding, we just need talent" gimmick. 4.
Isn't this true for all jobs though? Like if I'm recruiting for a law firm, it makes sense to talk to former and current associates who have worked there. This isn't like a job after law school where one just staffed with a random Partner.
99% associates are stuck because they lack imagination. They fear change. They're frogs in a tiny sweatshop pond.
Those who leap outside or shake things up or shoot for the moon are the 1%.
Mostly this thread is the 99% echoing the (conservative) beliefs that define them... that change is risky & their current position (as much as they may loathe it) is more comfortable.
I mean.. OP's pseudonym is "YOLO not worth it". Really? My YOLO is totally worth it. To each their own.
I am at one of the T1 law firms and was recently promoted to a PA. Someone pinged me on LinkedIn about taking a job at "a high growth startup". There was no record of any funding and they were offering some dual role to work at a fund in parallel. It sounded too good to be true. I played along till the offer (which was good).
Later, I spoke to a few people who worked there and it turns out that the role involved primarily litigation and compliance and they were just dangling a carrot of working at their "fund" in parallel. Rejected the job eventually. Turns out they're still in the market interviewing my colleagues from T1.
Don't want to take names, but they're based out of Pune and have a decent website as well. The person interviewing also seemed smart. They wanted folks from T1 to come handle their litigation. It was a clear career suicide.
Is the Pune based "data science" company? I spoke to a few of their former employees. Turns out they are actually running a call center and have 6-7 employees making some data [...] products. This was a scam the moment I spoke to their former employee.
They are very weird chaps. Going around parading as if their model is some avante garde stuff.
Their hr person (name starts with [...]) contacted me 6 months ago, then disappeared. Reached out to me again a few weeks back, i gave an interview, and then they disappeared again.
Either they are hiding something or they are just too confused on what they want - especially just the comments here indicate that they’ve considered atleast 4-5 candidates.
I dont think the startup market for lawyers is going to open up in next 2 years. In fact, I believe the start up bubble is going to burst in the next 2 years.
What is meant was that there'll me a lot more options for lawyers to move in-house in more established revenue generating startups. It'll also be easy to identify such startups.
Once you have left a law firm for an in-house position, you may not (or it is very difficult) to get it back. If you are irritated of life at a law firm - take a sabbatical and reassess before jumping ship out of sheer frustration. Make a calibrated decision rather than a frustrated decision.
I think there is a difference in when the in-house move is being made. A shift at Partner level means a GC position. However, a mid-career shift at SA / PA level may not give you that level of independence. It is circumstantial but there is a clear difference between a late-career and a mid-career move.
The point about DD is quite true. Don't just fall for the people interviewing you. Talk to as many people as you can. I have seen Partner level folks taking up in-house positions and doing work that is usually handled by Company Secretaries. There are some who are fine with this as well. However, it is a clear downgrade from the established career path that a law firm provides.
1. Try and gather data from open sources. 2. Talk to people who have previously worked in the designation being offered to you. 3. Ask the company to recommend 2 current employees and 2 former employees with whom you can do a reference checks. 4. Talk to your seniors who have made such a move before to understand. 5. Take things in writing. If someone refuses to give things on a signed piece of paper, it is clearly a red flag. 6. Ask about the prospect of growth with the company. 7. Understand increment structures.
There are a number of startups that are allowing people to work remotely. Flexi-jobs are being offered for non-core jobs. However, this is entirely contingent on the management. Eventually people are going to be asked to come back to office.
Don't be under the illusion that this remote culture will last forever.
GC or other mid-level In-House roles is just what they sound like - jack of all trades, so general expectation and even reality is you would need to manage various things. Yes you would have one or more skills which you are really good at. Try and judge if you are being hired for that skill(s) - its a good indicator of being a good fit.
I am one such person working in Compliance Department of an NBFC. The only positive is the low work load. I generally work for 2-3 hours a day. At times there is no work at all, I just play games on my phone all day and get paid for it.
Where do you see yourself go in the next 3-4 years while being at the NBFC? Do you think it makes long-term sense to stick around or is this just a mid-year career break for you.
Can you please describe your day in-house? What does a counsel at JP Morgan do? What do Legal Counsels at Netflix / Amazon do? How much is outsourced and how much do you people do themselves?
Mostly contract negotiation. There is also a lot of regulatory work involved. If things get too complicated, we get an external opinion. Sometimes two.
Is there anyone out there who has moved to an in-house role and then moved to a core commercial role within the organization? It would be great to hear their experience.
There are a few people that I've heard of doing this. However, it is entirely dependent on your relationship with the management and if they feel you're a strategic fit. There are a guy from NUJS who started out as a legal associate at Hotstar and is now in their strategy team.
Depends on who you are dealing with. There are some firms who take lawyers as consultants and allow them the tax benefit. However, note that this is applicable only till the presumptive taxation threshold of 50 lacs.
Overall, it is not about getting the same salary as the one you are getting in a law firm, it is about how the growth in salary in-house vs lawfirm.
1. Do your DD - You have done enough DDs for your deals. Please use this skill to do some in-depth DD on the company / fund that you are looking to join. A few suggestions would be:
- talk to the people who previously held the designation you are being offered. Ping people on LinkedIn. As a community, I have seen people generally respond to such queries.
- talk to former employees and ask them why they left.
- If you are joining a company ask about the revenue that it generates (not revenue run rate, but revenue). If you are a SA / PA and the company does not generate 150 Cr., don't join. They will not be able to afford your salary. Lawyers don't generate revenue for the business, therefore, there may not be enough growth. Ask about EBITDA margins to ensure that the company is profitable.
- If you are joining a fund, ask about the total money that the fund has deployed and the deployment strategy. Don't join a fund that has invested in less than 100 Cr. If the fund has pooled resources, it may still be able to deploy capital. If the fund does not have pooled resources, it is the biggest red flag.
- Beware of LinkedIn cold drops. Prefer to go through established recruiters (we all know who they are :p )
2. Beware of a compliance job - A lot of recruiters look at lawyers as compliance professionals. Ask about how the compliances take place. You don't want to end up doing the job of a CS.
3. Salaries -
- Don't take a cut in salary or join at the same salary - Please ask for atleast a 30% hike, especially for lawyers from T1. You are leaving an established career in a law firm and taking a risk at a crucial juncture in your career. Negotiate hard! If someone is unwilling to give in, note that your increment cycles will not go very well.
- Ask about how bonuses are decided. If there are any other component to the salaries, ask about how these are distributed.
4. Personal Opinion - The market is going to really open up in the next 2 years. A lot of new startups will need lawyers. Please wait it out if possible. You'll have a lot more options the moment things open up.
5. CANNOT OVER EMPHASIZE ON POINT 1 - DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE
- Talk to people. Talk to everyone and anyone that has worked / is working in the corporate you're looking to join.
1. Look at high growth companies that are well funded.
2. Choose product company over services businesses. Services business tend to have a bureaucratic setup that is top heavy.
3. If you are joining startups, look at the funding. Don't fall for the "we don't need funding, we just need talent" gimmick.
4.
99% associates are stuck because they lack imagination.
They fear change.
They're frogs in a tiny sweatshop pond.
Those who leap outside or shake things up or shoot for the moon are the 1%.
Mostly this thread is the 99% echoing the (conservative) beliefs that define them... that change is risky & their current position (as much as they may loathe it) is more comfortable.
I mean.. OP's pseudonym is "YOLO not worth it". Really?
My YOLO is totally worth it. To each their own.
Later, I spoke to a few people who worked there and it turns out that the role involved primarily litigation and compliance and they were just dangling a carrot of working at their "fund" in parallel. Rejected the job eventually. Turns out they're still in the market interviewing my colleagues from T1.
They are very weird chaps. Going around parading as if their model is some avante garde stuff.
Their hr person (name starts with [...]) contacted me 6 months ago, then disappeared. Reached out to me again a few weeks back, i gave an interview, and then they disappeared again.
Either they are hiding something or they are just too confused on what they want - especially just the comments here indicate that they’ve considered atleast 4-5 candidates.
Better to give this one a miss in my opinion.
Once you have left a law firm for an in-house position, you may not (or it is very difficult) to get it back. If you are irritated of life at a law firm - take a sabbatical and reassess before jumping ship out of sheer frustration. Make a calibrated decision rather than a frustrated decision.
2. Talk to people who have previously worked in the designation being offered to you.
3. Ask the company to recommend 2 current employees and 2 former employees with whom you can do a reference checks.
4. Talk to your seniors who have made such a move before to understand.
5. Take things in writing. If someone refuses to give things on a signed piece of paper, it is clearly a red flag.
6. Ask about the prospect of growth with the company.
7. Understand increment structures.
Don't be under the illusion that this remote culture will last forever.
Can you please describe your day in-house? What does a counsel at JP Morgan do? What do Legal Counsels at Netflix / Amazon do? How much is outsourced and how much do you people do themselves?
Are companies okay to bring lawyers on as consultants to offset the additional tax liability?
Overall, it is not about getting the same salary as the one you are getting in a law firm, it is about how the growth in salary in-house vs lawfirm.
A bit more insight please...