Worthy of law firm jobs lol. You guys could literally be replaced by robots in a few years and nobody would even notice. Dedena fir Jarvis ko ALB young achiever (law firm category).
I have full blown anxiety with heart palpitations and excessive sweating (I get drenched within a minute). Spent the first 10 odd years in a tier 4-5 law firm, and managed to survive. Went in-house 3 years ago. Earning more now, and I have my own team. You can do it. In terms of money, obviously I was not paid like a good firm. Started at Rs. 15k p.m. and was getting Rs. 2.2 lacs p.m. when I left the firm.
Thank you so much for taking out the time to reply to my query. I do have a better understanding and clarity of things now. Anxiety can be real and dreadful and I fight with it each day. But no, I will not give up on my dreams before giving it a shot. Someone has rightly mentioned above, don't take a call without trying and failing. I know many of us face this and let me tell all of you, including myself, that it will get better and we will lead a peaceful life. I am happy to know that instead of taking each other down, you all shared your very relevant experiences with me and I genuinely appreciate it.
My close friend who is a 2018 graduate from a private law school, faced similar anxiety issues, he had to occasionally visit hospitals during internship. He also happens to be a corporate lawyer working in a tier 1 firm. This is his story.
Post completion of law school, despite being aware of his health issues, he wanted to work in corporate law practice. He anticipated the stress in a law firm setup, having had attacks occasionally during internships. Upon graduation, he struggled to score a decent opportunity as all private law students do.
Through rigorous networking an applying, he scored an opportunity with an ex-Trilegal lawyer running his own show. The firm had crazy work hours, till 12 most nights. As is with this anxiety attacks, it came out of nowhere for him (or so we perceive). First six months were fine, but post that he started experiencing issues. He spoke to the partner, health is paramount, and resigned.
Went home for a month. Felt better and decided to have another go at his dream, got in touch with a couple of friends, found opportunity in passion domain, scored an opportunity with a tier-1 firm in Bombay. He had stellar communication skills plus good articulation. He was not upfront during interview about his condition. He disclosed it post closing the job. During last two years, his teammates have been nice and supportive. He has had limited issues and has grown immensely. The job has worked out for him.
As someone in similar situation like you, he is an example of things being possible and you not being discouraged. Don't take a call without trying and failing.
As a person who has seen him grow, he tells me that the things working for him are: (i) time management and 'deep work': this helps him concentrate and get things done with minimum mistakes. He sets the expectations of timeline clear before taking on tasks (often requesting extended timelines), communicates with the senior regularly. He has set a process to ensure deliverables meet expectations and are cleared of his to do list in the shortest timeline. (ii) he spends two hours each week in looking back at his work, organising files, taking notes of his mistakes and ideas. The nature of his work being repetitive, he has developed models that now give him perfect perspective and road map to deal with future workload. (iii) he spends considerable time finding productivity hacks, automation tools, and mostly reading up everything under the sun on his practice areas.
He is a victim of staffing, and has seen his share of inconsiderate teams. His process in (i) above has helped him immensely to manage timelines.
To be honest, I have improved 1000x in my job because of him. This is a tribute post and I am going to send this to him.
What do I mean by a Tier 3 firm - where you make your terms clear?
It can even be a Botique firm. In a Big Firm unless you are a Senior SA/PA/Partner you are nobody. You are just a number for the HR. If you go your role will be filled in 2 weeks through a referral.
In a Big Firm you have Zero bargaining power. But you leave it for a smaller one where you will get paid less. But you can have some bargaining power - tell that you want better hours and less money - not money, the small firm lawyers/hr will be willing to accommodate you. Or try and get into a chilled out In-House team. Maximum you will have to sit till 7 a day. No daily night calls and weekends.
I would advise you not to join. If you have pre-existing issues with anxiety, entering into an environment such as a law firm is going to very detrimental. And I say this as someone who isn't as negative about law firms as a lot of others on this page. Even if you find a good team, not every person in the team is going to be understanding. Even if everyone in your team is miraculously really nice, they and you will all be subject to difficult time and performance pressures. Apart from your colleagues, at some stage you will also deal with clients. And most clients are not going to be nice to you.
I was a very healthy individual mental wise - extroverted, committee convener, mooter, debater etc. Got a tier-1 offer on day zero.
I joined the law firm thinking I'd do it for a three-four years, save up and then seek out alternate career. I have completed two years and starting my third. I can tell you that my calculations were wrong. It is not just 4 years of working and earning. The environment, stress, anxiety, toxic work culture, idiotic bosses whose only ambition to suck up to a junior VP from a company on email - it will change you as a person.
The talents you thought you had will start disappearing. I have severe anxiety now and while I was among the best debaters during my college days - I fumble while speaking these days. Sitting inside a cubicle/now-bedroom 16 hours a day in front of a screen while listening 24x7 to people who have already lost their way in lives and are miserable and keep taking it out on you - it will affect you to the core of your personality.
After 4 years, you or may not even have the talents/mental fortitude required to make a career shift. So yes, even if you are planning to do the law firm job in the short term - DO NOT imagine your future prospects based on the person you are right now.
Its very real and it can pore through your skin without your thinking too much. You may want to "suck it up and deal with it" etc. etc., but it's going to be bad.
I've seen the rapid deterioration in mental health of some of the most headstrong and happy individuals. I would not recommend T1-T2 life to anyone even who cannot handle extreme stress and anxiety to begin with. Unless the team you're joining has a good reputation (these are very very few).
Find a boutique firm, pay will be lesser but you won't be breaking down constantly and would save on therapy expenses.
Everyone gets anxious now and then. It's just an emotion right? Get over your emotions and focus on being worthy of a law firm job. Luckily this is anonymous (for both of us). I've sat in on interviews for my team. I can tell you such attitude is a no-no at time of hiring.
Sure Legally India might not be the most accurate site to figure this out but surely the reason why there's such a large volume of people complaining about law firms so something must be wrong with them. The venting comes from personal experience so while you shouldn't take everything here set in stone, do be mindful that past anxiety and tier I law firms have historically never ever gone well together. So do make an informed decision based on conversations with your seniors, your consultants, well wishers, and even the Legally India comment section cause personally it has helped me a lot.
Please be mindful that anxiety at law firms are very very real, chronic and persistent. The way you're broken down, abused to work, belittled, made to deliver within a deadline of 30 minutes at times, constantly made to be available without any regard for your personal life etc.--they all do happen and are not exaggerated. I just joined a law firm over half a year back and am on the verge of quitting. While it's very team specific, hitting the jackpot and finding a good / kind team is very difficult and rare. I'd say, that for corporate law firms, anxiety is the norm and sanity / stress free environment is the exception (based on me and my peers' experience at least).
I would suggest opt for in-house if money is a consideration and maybe don't get into chambers. Try using your limited connections and finding a team / workplace with good reputation (I know it's tough as a law student but you have to try). Speak to college pass-outs. Don't blindly walk into a law firm / team without any info. I got assigned to a team against my will and can safely tell you I'm miserable (when I joined the team I was told by seniors who know the team: "Wow, my sympathies, praying you survive this"). Might not be the story with everyone but given that you already have severe anxiety coupled with heart palpitations I would not recommend you to take that risk. You earn 20K less with an easier in-house job sure, but if you stick it out and are happy then in the long run you earn way more. Also factor in your health, quality of life, medical bills etc., and general sense of well-being, and not just money. Try quantifying all of that before making a call. Hope you make the right call and find what's best for you!!
Stop judging law firms by reading comments on LI. People come here to vent and may sometimes exaggerate a bit. Trying to figure out law firm culture by reading frustrated LI comments is like trying to judge a law school by looking at its meme page.
I have seen the healthiest struggle at firms. Or join a small Tier 3 Office-where you make terms clear; there also they will make you work, hours are long- but pressure is less-pay is also less.
Have seen law school toppers (overall) leaving firms to take up less stressful jobs. If anyone is telling a Tier 1/2 job isn't stressful. They are either lying or haven't worked at one. The first 10 years are really stressful. Even if you make a partner your hours may get reduced, but not the stress and accountability.
I am a final year law student at one of the private law schools in India. I already suffer from severe anxiety and occasional heart palpitation issues. Will it worsen if I choose to join a law firm. After reading a number of comments on the page, I realised how toxic and stress inducing the environment is at most Indian law firms. In such a situation what other alternatives can I opt for. I would also like to put it on record that money is an important factor for me so should I just ignore everything and keep trying for that law firm job?
Thank you so much for taking out the time to reply to my query. I do have a better understanding and clarity of things now. Anxiety can be real and dreadful and I fight with it each day. But no, I will not give up on my dreams before giving it a shot. Someone has rightly mentioned above, don't take a call without trying and failing. I know many of us face this and let me tell all of you, including myself, that it will get better and we will lead a peaceful life. I am happy to know that instead of taking each other down, you all shared your very relevant experiences with me and I genuinely appreciate it.
Sending positive vibes and love to everyone!
Thank you.
My close friend who is a 2018 graduate from a private law school, faced similar anxiety issues, he had to occasionally visit hospitals during internship. He also happens to be a corporate lawyer working in a tier 1 firm. This is his story.
Post completion of law school, despite being aware of his health issues, he wanted to work in corporate law practice. He anticipated the stress in a law firm setup, having had attacks occasionally during internships. Upon graduation, he struggled to score a decent opportunity as all private law students do.
Through rigorous networking an applying, he scored an opportunity with an ex-Trilegal lawyer running his own show. The firm had crazy work hours, till 12 most nights. As is with this anxiety attacks, it came out of nowhere for him (or so we perceive). First six months were fine, but post that he started experiencing issues. He spoke to the partner, health is paramount, and resigned.
Went home for a month. Felt better and decided to have another go at his dream, got in touch with a couple of friends, found opportunity in passion domain, scored an opportunity with a tier-1 firm in Bombay. He had stellar communication skills plus good articulation. He was not upfront during interview about his condition. He disclosed it post closing the job. During last two years, his teammates have been nice and supportive. He has had limited issues and has grown immensely. The job has worked out for him.
As someone in similar situation like you, he is an example of things being possible and you not being discouraged. Don't take a call without trying and failing.
As a person who has seen him grow, he tells me that the things working for him are: (i) time management and 'deep work': this helps him concentrate and get things done with minimum mistakes. He sets the expectations of timeline clear before taking on tasks (often requesting extended timelines), communicates with the senior regularly. He has set a process to ensure deliverables meet expectations and are cleared of his to do list in the shortest timeline. (ii) he spends two hours each week in looking back at his work, organising files, taking notes of his mistakes and ideas. The nature of his work being repetitive, he has developed models that now give him perfect perspective and road map to deal with future workload. (iii) he spends considerable time finding productivity hacks, automation tools, and mostly reading up everything under the sun on his practice areas.
He is a victim of staffing, and has seen his share of inconsiderate teams. His process in (i) above has helped him immensely to manage timelines.
To be honest, I have improved 1000x in my job because of him. This is a tribute post and I am going to send this to him.
It can even be a Botique firm. In a Big Firm unless you are a Senior SA/PA/Partner you are nobody. You are just a number for the HR. If you go your role will be filled in 2 weeks through a referral.
In a Big Firm you have Zero bargaining power. But you leave it for a smaller one where you will get paid less. But you can have some bargaining power - tell that you want better hours and less money - not money, the small firm lawyers/hr will be willing to accommodate you. Or try and get into a chilled out In-House team. Maximum you will have to sit till 7 a day. No daily night calls and weekends.
Better than loosing a decade at a T1/T2.
I joined the law firm thinking I'd do it for a three-four years, save up and then seek out alternate career. I have completed two years and starting my third. I can tell you that my calculations were wrong. It is not just 4 years of working and earning. The environment, stress, anxiety, toxic work culture, idiotic bosses whose only ambition to suck up to a junior VP from a company on email - it will change you as a person.
The talents you thought you had will start disappearing. I have severe anxiety now and while I was among the best debaters during my college days - I fumble while speaking these days. Sitting inside a cubicle/now-bedroom 16 hours a day in front of a screen while listening 24x7 to people who have already lost their way in lives and are miserable and keep taking it out on you - it will affect you to the core of your personality.
After 4 years, you or may not even have the talents/mental fortitude required to make a career shift. So yes, even if you are planning to do the law firm job in the short term - DO NOT imagine your future prospects based on the person you are right now.
Have an exit plan.
I've seen the rapid deterioration in mental health of some of the most headstrong and happy individuals. I would not recommend T1-T2 life to anyone even who cannot handle extreme stress and anxiety to begin with. Unless the team you're joining has a good reputation (these are very very few).
Find a boutique firm, pay will be lesser but you won't be breaking down constantly and would save on therapy expenses.
I would suggest opt for in-house if money is a consideration and maybe don't get into chambers. Try using your limited connections and finding a team / workplace with good reputation (I know it's tough as a law student but you have to try). Speak to college pass-outs. Don't blindly walk into a law firm / team without any info. I got assigned to a team against my will and can safely tell you I'm miserable (when I joined the team I was told by seniors who know the team: "Wow, my sympathies, praying you survive this"). Might not be the story with everyone but given that you already have severe anxiety coupled with heart palpitations I would not recommend you to take that risk. You earn 20K less with an easier in-house job sure, but if you stick it out and are happy then in the long run you earn way more. Also factor in your health, quality of life, medical bills etc., and general sense of well-being, and not just money. Try quantifying all of that before making a call. Hope you make the right call and find what's best for you!!
I have seen the healthiest struggle at firms. Or join a small Tier 3 Office-where you make terms clear; there also they will make you work, hours are long- but pressure is less-pay is also less.
Have seen law school toppers (overall) leaving firms to take up less stressful jobs. If anyone is telling a Tier 1/2 job isn't stressful. They are either lying or haven't worked at one. The first 10 years are really stressful. Even if you make a partner your hours may get reduced, but not the stress and accountability.