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This generation is not put in a delusional hypnosis that "work hard, sacrifice everything & it will pay well" mindset that millennials were taught. I am a millennial myself that founded a top tier firm, & someone that left the corporate life for litigation. With your 20 years experience, I'd say we're around the same age. Let me tell you that I stopped dreaming and woke up just like this generation has, and realised that being a corporate slave isn't worth it. Despite being a founder, the top honcho, I still was working 16 hours just to "please" clients, that didn't give a crap about my health as long as I did the job. So stop spewing this weak mentality garbage.
Moreover, the kids have realised that law firm doesn't even pay half of what MBAs or Tech does. So any kid reading this, don't pull up with this BS, your mental health is more important than being in a constant abusive work culture. Also, 20 years in litigation will pay you much better than 20 years in firms, with added benefits of spending time with the fam. Knucklehead like above will justify their position cause they're too scared to admit that they're nothing more than a paper pushing corporate slave. When in reality, in today's day & age you can easily earn as well as life comfortably without destroying your own health and environment.
Everyone may not desire the same things that you do. And even if you want to advise someone to commit to the firm life, you can perhaps consider not being so vitriolic about it.
I was very happy to leave soon as I looked at myself in the mirror and realized it wasn't the real me. That was years ago.
Never had a moment of regret; plenty of joyful days - made new friends and clients while being out of the office and in the world, took time for myself, worked healthy hours, said no to work that I didn't need/agree with, took risks and reaped rewards, built a practice that reflects my values. Money has increased every year and I haven't had to bear bullshit to be rich. People are magnetized to joy, and more readily trust a professional who loves what he is doing.
Time flies when you're having fun, and moves at snail's pace when you aren't, doesn't it?
F*** being rich and miserable. You have a degree that is invaluable. Go find out its worth, and yours.
Worked at a high end law firm, learnt a lot but felt like the lifestyle was unsustainable. When I got married, I realised that the choice I had to make was, spend meaninful time with my signficant other, or work at a law firm.
At the same time, I also wanted to work in the "best teams" with the "best partners" and on the "most challenging / high end transactions". So I decided to make a conscious choice and spend the next few years working hard, before moving on from the law firm world. I jumped to a "better" Tier 1 practice, worked on probably the biggest transaction in India then.
The amount of abuse, manipulation and general lack of empathy for life was stark and far worse than what I thought I was signing up for. I realised that the folks at the Tier 1 (barring a few exceptions in a few practices in a few cases) were not really killing it the way I had thought they were. They are also drafting the same things, making the same mistakes, and doing the same shit, but way overworked and way brainwashed into thinking that their lives were more meaninful than it was. I recall that my partner slept in a different room from their significant other, another partner was getting on in age and had no ongoing personal relationship outside of work (other than some fairly disturbing rumours with an associate) and a third partner with a new born at home was working till 2-4 AM everyday for the better part of the time I was there.
What I didn't see was any cutting edge work or guidance that helped me grow. The logic appeared to be, kill yourself for the firm, outlast your peers and you will get a fair bit of money. That's when I came to the conclusion that the choice wasn't no money or tons of money, but actually some money or tons of money.
Decided to move on and joined a smaller start-up firm - my life has significantly improved, my take home matches my peers (including in Tier 1 firms) and I don't have to deal with any of the politics. I have spent a substantial amount of time with my significant other and I still get to do the "big deals" I thought I had left behind. I'm likely a lucky person given where I've landed up, but you know what they say - fortune favours the brave.
I still fully understand why someone may want to remain at Big Law - but based on my experience, it's not the only way.
I've worked at no-name firms since graduating but it's mostly been politics free so it's odd that I have to mentally prepare for abuse at a future job I aspire to get. What a world.
My limited tip on doing well at a Tier 1 - just go all out once you join a Tier 1, don't hold back, work late nights, weekends, holidays - be flexible in your mind and be the best at what you want to be and learn as much as possible. Be the most reliable associate / senior associate in the team. Be proactive and focussed on understanding what your team / partner needs you to do, and get it done. You'll learn a lot. The art of client management. The art of partner management. The art of getting work done in less time. All of this. It works and the rewards are (most of the times) quite good.
Just know it's all unsustainable and if there is politics at play even working this hard may not give you what you deserve in the end, but that's again, a matter of luck.
After 2 years, ive deduced that the law firm goal should be simple-
Do the least amount of work possible for the most amount of money possible, and ensure you are learning enough in the process.
A law firm won't think twice before kicking you out, giving you less money, dumping more work on you, and they really don't factor in your learning in any way at all. The reward for good work is more work, always, everywhere. Being the most dependable person in most cases, is not the best case- reasoning is simple, most law firm bosses have been trained to extract max work and maximise profits, and will only see you as resource no. 28383882....
Beat them at their own game.
Lessons from a litigation perspective:
(a) Initially, pay will probably be 10-15% of what you get at a tier 1 firm. Maybe lesser. That can be a bigger issue than one thinks.
(b) Pay will increase every year. And one can save a lot on living expenses (compared to wherever you work).
(c) Work will mostly be mundane but it will be better than what you did in the firm. I personally read more SCC in the first couple of months at the tier 2 city firm that the entirety of five years at a tier 1 firm. And no case notes, argument notes, list of dates, or notes of any kind!
(d) One will get to appear and argue much much more. And if one does/ argue's well, judges start calling you by name. One gets to learn the art of adjourning cases in a senior's absence which takes some skill (there have been instances of tier 1 firm partners briefing senior advocates for adjournments).
(e) Much better work life balance. Much more flexibility. Family is closer.
(f) A lot less traveling. No more Noida/ Gurgaon - Delhi. No more planning to avoid traffic.
(g) Disputes practice in a tier 1 firm is very different from actual litigation. A 100 million arbitration claim filed after many billable months cannot match the thrill of arguing admittedly not-so-complex cases every day.
As sr. no. 4 says, firms are not the only way.
Is their any way I can contact you? I have recently posted a question that doesn't seem to have gotten a lot of traction. I wish to follow a similar trajectory as you have. Hopefully, if there is anyway to contact you, I will be very very glad.
Thank you!
I worked at Tier 1 law firm from 2014-2020 (a little over 6 years). From the beginning, I knew I joined for the quick money (more on that later) and not for the career progression. Joining a big law firm is a simple trade-off, you piggy-back off the firm's established reputation to do work that pays the firm a lot, and in exchange the firm gives you back a tiny fraction of what you earn for them. That tiny fraction can be a huge amount for most. You also trade the need to spend time sourcing clients with the work coming to you automatically albeit with the compulsion to spend all your time doing all the work that comes in.
I have always been clear that time is my most precious commodity. You can obtain almost infinite amounts of money, land, wealth, etc. but you cannot manufacture more time for yourself. Whatever time you have is (a) unknown to you; and (b) definitely finite. So what did I need to do to conserve my time and make maximum buck for the time spent? I got efficient. Very efficient. And I kept my efficiency to myself.
I was privileged to be better at writing and drafting than my peers and even my bosses. This was a great thing as far as MNC clients were concerned. Deliverables drafted by me impressed the firangs. I had clear, concise and very readable deliverables, which everyone loved. So I made a niche for myself for certain kinds of high value work, for which my team/peers were happy to let me take my time and come out with a good product. They learnt after the first year or two that my deliverables barely took any editing or revisions. So over a period of time I started being given work that (a) wasn't my team's core practice; and (b) were mostly MNC clients demanding well drafted deliverables. Means I had monopoly over a large part of my time.
Here's where my efficiency came in as a kicker. As I got better and better at my work (which was varied), I took less and less time to do it. However, I was still able to set my own timelines (within reasonable limits). Once people are used to having a deliverable turn around in 48 hours, I was free to do it in 24 hours and keep the rest of the time for myself. If they needed it faster, I took my pound of flesh the next time. I got promoted on time, I had very good appraisals.
To be clear, I did not cheat the law firm out of anything, the firm made over 500-600% more in revenue from my time than they paid me. They got what they wanted from me (I made a ton of money for them), and I bore no obligation to give them every moment of my time or even any more than I chose to.
I spent a lot of the saved time pursuing my interests, which were primarily on how to deploy the money I was making (and saving 90% of) to become financially independent. I spent a couple of years learning the ropes for investing in listed companies. I learnt my lessons in the market, paid my tuition fees, and eventually got good at it. By the end of 5 years, I had enough saved and invested to be pulling in 50k a month in passive income without lifting a finger. My investments have growth well, and I have a plan I execute for my personal finances. Now I have core investments and a little bit of capital set aside with which I do special situations investments. For example, I play low risk rights issues and buyback situations. 8-10 of these situations come every year, a retail investor can make a lakh or two per annum through these with the right risk management. If there is an opportunity out there in the listed space, I have the time and understanding to play it. Along with passive income, this creates sufficient cash flows to live decently.
I now do the above and freelance legal work from time to time. A couple of people now give me work regularly and I don't really make an effort to go out and look for more. If I do good work for them, eventually they refer me elsewhere. I am okay with the pace, I am not dependent on it for my well-being. I write, I sleep, I vegetate. The uncertainty of the future sometimes does create anxiety, but you have to trust in yourself and move forward.
I've graduated last year and have started working at a tier-1, and I've been able to complete approx 75% of my assignments with 2-3 hours to spare. I submit the work about an hour before it's due, and use the time in between for working out, reading, or whatever I'm in the mood for that day. However, I feel this is only possible since we're working remotely and no one knows when I'm actually done with the work. Any suggestions on how I can continue with this once the work moves back to the office?
I was interning at the same firm in 2019, and whenever I was done with my work, there was always some associate hovering around to give me more work (though I was assigned to exclusively work with another team; didn't complain because I wanted the job), and the IT guys restricted my computer's access to almost all social media/entertainment websites because I used to plug in my earphones and turn on some instrumental soundtracks while working to drown out the chatter around the office. Didn't confront them at the time either. What I had to do then was read some boring Mondaq articles in my free time, pretending I was working on something. But it was quite boring. Would love to have better ideas.
Thanks!
Context: Currently YOLOing 10k/month in zerodha account
In my experience, if you take interest in the deals / work you’re doing and if you have decent seniors - you’ll find more value in your work than just money.
With that being said, of course, the expectations and standards of hours to be put in and donkey work to be done, that have been set by people over time, make it very difficult for most of us to find a work life balance. But all I’m saying is there are teams out there which care about this and make an effort to help you actually grow, personally and professionally. I also feel like some lawyers lose sight of the fact that it’s a quid pro quo situation- if you’re not willing to put your best foot forward (I don’t mean put in long hours but that you take initiative and care about the work you’re doing) then you end up doing shoddy work which in turn leads to friction between you and the seniors. Be the change you want to see, get rid of toxic bosses and cultivate a better environment for your juniors.
To all the juniors, I’d like to say, stand up for what is fair. Don’t succumb to pressure from seniors. If you need a break, you need a break. It seems daunting I know but if you don’t speak up, you’ll grow frustrated and leave like everyone without really trying.
A couple of months went by. I was working on another deal with impossible deadlines. I started dreaming about how life was peaceful when I was sick for those 12 days. I was so exhausted that I started wishing for sickness just so that I could get uninterrupted rest. I started losing interest in life, in meeting friends, watching movies, listening to music or even going out with my better half. I only had negative thoughts. Money did not make me happy anymore. I had become quite miserable and sad. That's when I decided to leave my high paying Tier-1 law firm job and take a break. It was undoubtedly the best decision I took. After a few months, I joined a company as an in-house lawyer. The pay is slightly lesser but I am happier than ever.
I feel it’s the most shittiest choice that I have made then
On a serious note, life is so much more than tolerating these small brains. In fact, my previous office partner even blocked me LinkedIn after I walked out of the office after an argument. I was the one rendered unemployed, scared and helpless on the streets but Ofcourse sir has the right to give me attitude. Fucking jokes.
Clearly, for you proof-reading is "just basic reading of the document", but that is not what proof-reading is.
Check your entitlement and focus on learning.
Do let us know about Office Number 3 when you get time